Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 04:00:03 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #127 Gary Numan Digest Sun, 16 Apr 95 Volume 1 : Issue 127 Today's Topics: absolution + misc Berserker CD - word from Beryl Webb Berserker and the Law Berserker Debate II Copyright / No More Lies Heartbreak Hill?/Numan info I have the Dream Corrosion Live video Metal Rhythm and Cds New Numan Laser Disc NUMAN / DRAMATIS FOR SALE Numan Questions Numan records vs Numan music Ode to Numan completist Sacrifice and other thoughts Sacrifice live and You support for a FAQ The Berserker Controversy This Wreckage Japanese lyric ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 08:56:08 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: absolution + misc To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Tue, 04 Apr 1995 Andy McHaffie wrote: >Well, my opinion on Absolution hasnt really changed. Lyrically, he seems to be >really scarping the barrel, singing about 'climbing mountains' and 'swimming >oceans' Hmmmm.. True, these phrases are cliches. I'm just glad it's not "I like S, I like T, Don't like A and I don't like B" with wailing backing vocals "This is, ab-solution". :-) I do like some of the other phrases. "Kill the Children of Eden" in particular. I really like the instrumentation. It's simple but powerful and so brooding. >its weird, cos Sacrifice is the best thing he's done for many years, then he >pulls out a stinker comparable in awfulness to 'like a refugee', or 'london >times' or 'heart'... I haven't heard "Like A Refugee" due to warnings in this group but I would agree "London Times" is terribly dull. Gary does a Phil Collins impression. Seems like Gary's forays into collaborations or cover versions have highly questionable results. "Change Your Mind" and "On Broadway" are exceptions. The Sharpe and Numan material is OK but nothing to rave about IMO. I have to disagree about "Heart". This was one of the few good things on "Outland" IMO. Seems like fans either love or hate the song. I remember the division on it when the single first came out. >Im sure he could have pulled a better one off the album, such as 'Bleed' with >perhaps absolution as one of the b-sides (I hope he soon reverts to putting >original tracks on his b-sides rather than some obviously hurried remixes). Now, I have heard the extended mixes, perhaps Scar/Absolution with the extended version of Scar would have been a better choice if no other new material was available. >Well, thats the excitement of being a numan fan - you just never know whats >gonna happen next... It's always a roller coaster of late but I still think we haven't started the next downturn for sure. >Tell u what - this unplugged album is either gonna be a stormer, or his worst >album ever! (though i AM dreading the ballad lp more!!) Again we depart. I am looking forward to the ballad album. Some of Gary's best songs in the last 5 or so years have been ballads (Don't Call My Name, Heart, Whisper, I Wonder, Love Isolation, You Walk in My Soul, The Seed of a Lie). It is hard to imagine a synth artist going unplugged but Gary has shown indications he could pull it off - the piano version of DitP and the acoustic intro to Jo the Waiter on the DC album. >Any other UK numan fans out there? Yes, but I'm in California now :-) >Oh - the live lp will be great! - I was at the gig and its the best ive EVER >seen him play... Nice to hear someone say so. I'll be intrigued to hear the Sacrifice material live. Bye, Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 09:38:44 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Berserker CD - word from Beryl Webb To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I spoke to Beryl Monday morning after setting my alarm early and catching her in after 5 tries, yay! She had just got in so I nearly missed her yet again. The most important thing I asked Beryl about was the Berserker CD situation. I told her that people were screaming for it and there was a possibility of people making CD copies if they didn't do it soon. I didn't say people on the list were discussing it, rather that the technology exists and people who like Gary tend to be technically oriented. Anyway, she said Numa may be willing to repress Berserker CDs soon. The original pressing was 2000. She said she would talk to Tony but anyway she thought that they were getting to the point where thay had enough interest to justify a repressing (minimum run is 500). I reiterated the argument I made in the cover letter I sent with the "Congrats on Sacrifice" letter, that I hope Pinnacle pick it up for general distribution to give easier worldwide access. I said that sales figures for White Noise, Ghost and even Sacrifice would be a good indication of how many could be sold because of the initial limited release and the regard with which the album is held by most fans. She thinks that a majority of a Berserker repressing would be sold abroad (apparently they have received much mail about it). If they do it for the FC only I'd try and make sure she reserve 100 copies for Digest members. She said people also want Strange Charm and The Fury CD rereleases. To quell the masses Berserker should come first I think. Greg Samson had 41 people interested with many wanting multiple copies. How many copies in total was that? I can relate that info to Beryl next time I call. So, perhaps those talking about making CD copies could hold off from doing anything for the time being as it seems more likely than ever since the initial pressing ran out, that an official release of a Berserker CD will happen in the not too distant future. I will ask for a status update next time I call. If a decision has been made to not repress the CD at that time I might broach the subject of someone making personal CD copies with Numa's permission and a royalty payment. Other tidbits: The Sacrifice Tour live album will be here any time. We should see a release date shortly. She was unsure if she got the letter from the Digest but she did say she got one which mentioned the Internet so I think she did - her memory is clearly not photographic :-). She was going to ask Gary if he got it. Tony often deals with getting stuff to Gary and may have sent it to him without telling her. In fact, Gary called on their family line while I was talking with Beryl. She told him he'd have to wait as she was on the other phone with someone in America. I was that close to speaking with him :-( It was nice of her to continue my call rather than speaking with Gary though. She gave the go-ahead for a member of the Digest who volunteered to be the North American Rep for the UK Fan Club. This would give access to UK Fan Club materials to those in the USA and Canada (and other countries if willing to deal in US dollars or UK pounds). This will be a great service if it works out. Thing are cuirrently being set up but with luck an announcement will be made in the Digest in the not too distant future. That was it. I hope this brings some relief to those who are agitating for the Berserker CD. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 16:08:15 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Berserker and the Law To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:03:23 -0400 Scorbie@aol.com wrote: > The new section states: > No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement > of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or > distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital > audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an > analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a > consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical > recordings or analog musical recordings. > 17 U.S.C. 1008. >As the legislative history to this statute noted, "In short, the >reported legislation would clearly establish that consumers cannot >be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private >noncommercial use." H.R. Rep. 102-780(I). >Does this mean you can make copies for your family and friends, as >long as it's not "commercial?" A strict reading of the words in >the statute would seem to say that you may. Without seeing all the sections in which this is encouched and the definitions of the terms I would hesitate to say that the proposal is legal. I would assume that "commerce" is the exchange of goods for payment. There does not have to be any profit involved for it to be considered commerce. If this is the case, the proposed production of counterfeit Berserker CDs would still constitute commercial use and thus be illegal. Further, copyright laws are intended to protect the intellectual property of the copyright holders and to guarantee they receive due payment for use of their work. The fair use laws I thought relate to personal use to allow you to make copies for your own use i.e. so you can make a tape for your car and office rather than buy 3 copies of any one album. The new section updates the law to keep up with today's technology but surely it does not change the definition of "commercial" or "fair use". An expert legal opinion from someone who deals with this type of law would be useful. Your interpretation would suggest that one could make counterfeit CDs with impunity as long as no one made any profit. Who is left out of this equation? - the artist who created the material and the company who has rights to the artist's work. The company is denied income from the material it owns and the artist is denied their due royalty. Your interpretation therefore must be wrong. I hope this subject will become mute with the news I got from Beryl posted elsewhere in this Digest. I can see it causing a schism and animosity in the Digest if it is not resolved by either a definitive assessment of the law or an official rerelease of the CD by Numa. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 11:45:27 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: Berserker Debate II To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In relation to my last posting on the _Berserker_ CD debate in last week's digest, I might have been a little too forceful in my opinions and certainly did not intend on insulting anyone. I'm expecting to be attacked for that posting, and while I stand by the argument presented in it, I do apologize for any language that might have been too direct. Last week it was mentioned that making these DATs or CDs might be legal afterall. I would like to raise a few red flags before this issue of legality is completely put aside. First, the matter here is one of not just domestic statutes, but also of international law. While international law is of a far less precise and enforcable nature, it still exists and could potentially complicate the matter from the black-and-white presentation of the issue last week. There are international agreements and conventions between most states which cover issues similar to this one. Second, this issue is not just one where, if the profit motive is removed, suddenlly the entire venture is legal. In the eyes of ASCAP and BMI, for example, the recording of music onto a cassette for a friend is legal. The issue becomes far more questionable to them when it entails the making of many copies of a copyrighted source. Furthermore, when the copies being made are either DATs or CDs, and are being produced on a fairly large scale (like the _Berserker_ venture presumably would be), then the legalities become even more cloudy. BMI and ASCAP, in an interview over copyright rights that I heard on the radio about two years ago, argued that when one starts making large numbers of CDs and DATs, even if not for profit, they are producing a product that materially speaking (e.g. its sound quality and packaging) is comparable to the original product put out by the legal holder of the copyright. They consider such items to be illegal. In this matter, I have read of those offering to make CDs and colour copies of the CD booklet. The end product could be materially comparable. My primary objection to this whole matter, however, is not legal. I'm more concerned about respect and relations. If this means I'm on some "moral high-horse" then so be it, I'm staying in the saddle, thank you very much. When I refer to respect, I'm refering to both copyright protections in general, and Gary Numan in particular. Let's see how Numa feels about this matter first. If Numa says no to it, then that should be the end of it. In regards to relations, I am speaking about the growing rapport Derek has established with Beryl Webb, a rapport with the potential to bring great rewards to us all, provided we don't do anything to anger Numa or the Webb family. Numa has been burned by overly zaelous fans many times in the past (from illegally taped interviews to the production of pirated material) and has become very wary of dealing directly with them ever since. The fact that we might be able to build up at least one good fan-Numan link that Numan knows he can trust is an opportunity that shouldn't be squandered in something questionable like this whole _Berserker_ matter. On an enitely unrelated matter, I wanted to confirm that there is indeed a 7" single of "The Seed Of A Lie" out there. It originally appeared only as a bonus single with the _Sacrifice_ LP. It was included with the LP because the vinyl could not fit "The Seed Of A Lie" on it. The 7" contains the CD version of the song on side-A and the extended version on side-B. Given the fact that vinyl barely sells nowadays, you could probably still obtain the LP and single by just calling some of the more reliable importers that appear in Goldmine (like Music Machine). Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 09:42:32 +0100 From: meta@harlequin.co.uk (mathew) Subject: Copyright / No More Lies To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Scorbie@aol.com writes: >In an attempt to end this debate on copies of Berserker >(me being in favor of it) I am giving you all the current >"law" that seems to state we can infact do it if the >parties involved do not make any profit whatsoever >but can of course be compensated for the cost on >their end . Please go away and read the copyright FAQ in news.answers. >As the legislative history to this statute noted, "In short, the >reported legislation would clearly establish that consumers cannot >be sued for making analog or digital audio copies for private >noncommercial use." H.R. Rep. 102-780(I). If you distribute 'em, they aren't private. dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) writes: >After more many years of trying, I have finally succeeded in >whittling my total list of wanted but deleted CDs down to two Numan >related items. One is an import only, the other I want an import >version. > >Yen - "Air" (have US release but want UK copy, cat no. EIRSACD 1034) > >Sharpe and Numan - "No More Lies" CD5 (was a UK release only) Hmm. It just so happens that I have the "No More Lies" CD5, and I don't like it that much. Sounds like you'd appreciate it far more than I do... I'll check it's still in my cupboard of singles... mathew -- Add sugar to taste http://www.mantis.co.uk/~mathew/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 16:13:08 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Heartbreak Hill?/Numan info To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Sun, 2 Apr 1995 "Joel L. Patton" asked: >Derek, > What is Heartbreak Hill? and how do you get so much numan info? >How could I get a copy of the numan yearbook? Heartbreak Hill, I have just learned this week (thanks to Paul Mayer in NYC), is the third compilation from Receiver Records which will complete their 3 CD contract with Numa. It is apparently overdue but should appear within the next 3 weeks in the UK. I have no idea about the track listing but with luck it will contain some more new-to-CD b-side goodies. The reason I get so much info is through contacts I have developed over the years. I have a membership in the UK Fan Club through my brother in the UK which means I get 3 Fan Club Newsletters plus the Yearbook each year. That's also how I hear of tour dates and some release info. In addition I talk with Beryl Webb, Gary's mother, on the phone now and then. This is a privilege that I am very careful to safeguard. She runs the UK Fan Club. I get up-to-the-minute news from her and can also ask questions about future plans that don't make it into the newsletter or press. I also scan the newsgroups for release dates of upcoming work and I have a few personal contacts that I speak to on the phone who are keen fans and tell me if if they find or here something new. With luck in the near future we may have a running North American branch of the UK Fan Club from which the Yearbook comes. I am just setting up the details with a Digest recipient. Through him you should be able to obtain UK Fan Club membership materials and merchandise. Things are in the setting-up stage at the moment. The Digest will be told when things are up and running. Watch for news on this development. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 11:11:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Wagner Subject: I have the Dream Corrosion Live video To: numan@cs.uwp.edu A good friend in England bought me Gary's Dream Corrosion live video; I'm getting the NTSC conversion made this week. I'd be willing to trade a copy of this video with anyone who can provide me an excellent (hopefully 1st gen) dub of THE TOURING PRINCIPLE, Gary's classic video from the 79 tour. Contact me at hepcats@eden.com if you can match this offer or make a more intriguing one. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 16:39:39 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Metal Rhythm and Cds To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Mon, 3 Apr 1995 PaddyGav@aol.com asked: >I am having some questions regarding some recordings. >The first is, I recently purchased a cassette of Metal Rhythm that is on IRS >records. The cassette that was stolen from me years ago was (I am almost >sure) on Illegal records. Does this mean that I have a prototype New Anger >that was released in the U.S. under the original title and track listing, or >is my memory regarding my old MR cassette flawed. Metal Rhythm was the UK release, originally on Illegal Records, a subsidiary of IRS, then IRS Records proper after Illegal went under. It has the original album tracking (no Berserker tracks, no remixes). New Anger was the US/German/Japanese release again by IRS that had the Berserker tracks and remixes of Devious and America. Unless I am also wrong to have a Metal Rhythm cassette on Illegal, you had to have the original UK import cassette. >Did I read in Billboard (round about 1989, I reckon) that IRS had purchased >the domestic rights (or whatever the hell it's called) to all of the old >Numan stuff (would have been, oh, pre-'89)? Should I have started drinking >at that time to justify my odd memory lapses? True, IRS did obtain US rights to the 1984-1987 Numa catalogue. However, after the split between Gary and IRS in 1991 I assume they no longer have rights to the material. Gary had to remix the tapes of side 4 of Ghost for the CD release on Numa because IRS had not returned the master tape as they were supposed to. Gary has no contract with an American label, much though he'd like one. >Has anyone ever suggested legitimately re-releasing the Numa catalog? Cd's >are easy to press, and this is the age of DIY, no? Heck fire, kids, if The >Fall can release all of thier shite on Matador (which saves me plenty o' >dollars,by the way), why can't Numa release its back catalog on a small, yet >quality minded label here in the states? It would help the label, and greatly >aid dweebs like me who have to drive a minimum of 300 miles and shell out >$big$ dollars for Numan music. I can see just by the response in this >newsletter that fans can't get the discs, and I feel quite certain that there >are many other fans who are not on line who are just as unfortunate. I have indicated to Beryl Webb that there surely must be a small label willing to sign Gary for US releases. Perhaps he wants a contract with a big label to enable him to come and tour. IRS refused to front money to allow Gary to tour the US and he is not prepared to tour here without that help and promotion. Starting up a label requires a certain amount of capital and a lawyer to cover legal matters which isn't cheap. With research it would be interesting to see what would be involved and whether it would be feasible to start up such a company but I know I don't have the time or the money to front for it. >Finally, although I did greatly appreciate the lengthy discography, I wonder >if any body has a list of other music by Numan (i.e. movie soundtracks >(execpt for that "Ski Patrol" thingy)or comercials, that sort of thing)? >Really finally, I was confronted recently with "Sac" and "Extended Sac." >which one do the readers recommend? "Ski Patrol" thingy? What "Ski Patrol" thingy? Gary did the soundtrack for The Unborn movie. That's it so far. He also has a mini-album of instrumental music that he wrote for his Radial Display Video in 1994. That is a Fan Club item and with luck should be available when we get the North American branch set-up (mentioned elsewhere in this Digest). Gary did music for a TV ad back in 1978 (is that on the TPP/Warriors 2CD UK release as was rumoured?). He wrote 3 pieces for a French TV ad last year, one of which became Deadliner. That's all I know about of the top of my head. Sac or Extended Sac, that is the question. I would say both :-) I'd recommend Sac first so you can familiarize yourself with the songs and then appreciate the Extended versions. EXT Sac gives better value in music per dollar but the shorter versions might seem too abrupt if you don't get Sac first. I like them both very much. What do others think? Hope that helps, Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 22:43:23 -0700 From: The Pinhead Subject: New Numan Laser Disc To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Derek Langsford writes: >There is a (presumably) Japanese laser disc of Gary's 1984 Berserker >concert in London. EAR/Rational music listed it in his latest emailer: > >Numan, Gary - Live London 1984 LD <02956> import $67.50 # > .... > >Question is, is it the one hour video that was released in the USA or is it >the full show a la White Noise? > >If anyone has seen it, or has it please let us know. Not having a laser >disc player or that kind of money at the moment precludes me from getting a >copy :-( Just picked it up from Tower Shibuya while I was in Japan last week. Gary Numan Berserker NALP-10011 NEC Avenue 5800 Yen. CLV 2 sides 62 min Color NTSC Stereo Digital Audio CX. Filmed and Recorded at the Hammersmith Odeon, London. 11th December 1984. Side 1 1. Berserker 2. Metal 3. Remind Me To Smile 4. The Iceman Comes 5. Cold Warning 6. I Die; You Die 7. My Dying Machine Side 2 1. Cars 2. We Are Glass 3. This Is New Love 4. Are Friends Electric? -- Ronald Cole E-mail: zippy@ecst.csuchico.edu Senior Software Engineer ronald@optx.com OTCS Incorporated, a Brian Meyerpeter company ronald@netcom.com "The Bill Of Rights -- Void Where Prohibited By Law" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:37:51 -0400 From: ToddSquodd@aol.com Subject: NUMAN / DRAMATIS FOR SALE To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have the following Numan vinyl for sale. All items listed are in mint/very good condition, and all have picture sleeves. Anyone interested please email me at toddsquodd@aol.com to reserve or inquire further. Prices include shipping. Thanks. Twelve Inch Dramatis I Can See Her Now/One Step Ahead ($16) Seven Inch 45s Gary Numan Miracles/The Fear ($8) Gary Numan I Can't Stop/Faces ($8) Gary Numan Your Fascination/We Need It ($8) Gary Numan Radio Heart/Radio Heart Instrumental (Boom box-shaped picture disc) ($18) Sharpe/Numan New Thing From London Town/Time to Die ($8) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 15:30:32 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Numan Questions To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 BarryJason@aol.com asked: >PLEASE HELP: >The last Gary Numan discography I've seen stopped at "Outland" and did not >include any singles from the Radio Heart project. Could someone please help >me with the missing information? There are a few people working on it at the moment. One member of the Digest (Jeff Tolva ) has been updating the discography but I am not sure if it has been loaded back up to cs.uwp.edu yet. You might email him and find out. terrym@netcom.com (Terry McConnell) is also developing a www discography which should be very nice when done. >Specifically: >I've been having a difficult time locating all the formats (vinyl expecially) >for Numan singles released in the last two years. I'd like to find a >complete U.K. discography covering "Cars 93", "Like a Refugee", "Are Friends >Electric? (w/Generator)", "Dream Corrosion EP", "A Question of Faith" and >"Absolution". This one comes in 12", 12" Pic, CD5, CD5 Pic. No 7" to my knowledge. >As for the Radio Heart project: >Are there any actual pressings of the album on CD? How rare are these? Are >there any Numan tracks on the album/CD not available on the singles? What was >the release date of "All Across the Nation"? The album CD is exceedingly rare. It was pressed in Holland and quickly withdrawn at Gary's request because he did not want fans to think this was a Nman album. Only a handful of copies are known to exist although someone posted from Sweden saying that it was available there at one time. That's as much as I can tell you about the project. >Two other questions: What formats are availalbe for "Voices" and "My World >Storm"? Is there a "Living Ornaments" CD (BEGA 155 CD)?? My World Storm was a US only release on 12" and cassette only I believe. Living Ornaments on CD has been delayed due to Beggars Banquet being unable to find the master tapes for the 80 concert. There was the suggestion that they may put the farewell concert on instead but nothing has been heard about it for several months. For now you have to suffice with Asylum vol 3 for CD. >P.S. Just read about a "Seed of a Lie" 7"; is this true? I thought that came with the vinyl of Sacrifice because the song didn't fit on the vinyl (not sure why as with "The Seed of a Lie" the album is only 47 mins long). I take it your a completist :-) Hope that helps, Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 23:15:00 -0400 From: GYMnIF@aol.com Subject: Numan records vs Numan music To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello! I've had a major question on my mind lately regarding whether I am trying to obtain all of Gary's music, or all of Gary's records/CDs/etc and I would love to know how extensive everyone's collection is. Some time ago I sold my record player so all my Numan records are sitting in a box. At first I wanted just to hear all his releases, but then I started collecting all of the records just because they were so interesting and they were a challenge to find. But now since I only buy CDs, I had thoughts about selling the records because I could no longer listen to them. So basically I would like to know how much of a completist everyone is. If you would Email me, I could compile the results and post to the digest. For instance, do you collect enough records/CDs/tapes/etc in order to get the music, or do you collect every variation known to exist: for instance, every color that Telekon came in as well as an LP from every country, and all other formats as well. In a nutshell: do you want the music, or the visual appeal/collectibility of the records? Personally at this point, I am trying to buy only the CDs that will get me the music I do not already have on CD, and if a CD duplicates material I already have, then I do not buy it. thank you for your inputs to my questions. -Jim (GYM n IF @ aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:33:53 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Ode to Numan completist To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Set to the tune of "Absolution". (It's amazing what I will think of to put off starting something I hate :-) ) I would buy every album, extended mixes too. I would buy every single, like you expect me to. Vinyl, cassette, and CD, 12 inch, picture discs too. I just live to buy music, especially if by you. This is absolute This is absolution Sell my plasma to clinics, get that single part 2. Have no food for a week or more, to afford what's new. Push credit cards to the limit, I have more than a few. Pay off one with a another, when the bills come due. This is absolute This is absolution Am I in need of a doctor, a psychiatrist too? But there's another live album, post-date my cheque to you? This is absolute This is absolution This is absolute This is absolution End Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 18:25:35 -0400 From: Mellisa@aol.com Subject: Sacrifice and other thoughts To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello!! I picked up both versions of Sacrifice and two things are beginning to happen here: 1) I cant stop playing either of them 2) Im feeling down when I listen to the last 3 tracks on the disk I love the extended probably more and am finding that Im listening to that disk more. I have always loved anything and everything that Gary has ever recorded and I hate too hear people on the digest disliking something or saying bad comments about anything Gary does. I guess over the last few years I have become "obsessed" with Gary to the point where thats just about all I listen to or think about. If Gary were to read this letter I would just like him to know that I couldnt say enough to even begin thanking him for all the happiness he has given me through his music and all the memories I have through the music. I love you Gary Numan!!!! I am now living back home in the U.K. and am extremely pleased to be back home!!!! Mellisa mellisa@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 05:55:03 -0400 From: Scorbie@aol.com Subject: Sacrifice live and You To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well well well ........ I just got a copy of that boot CD of the Sacrifice tour . When that officially comes out we are all in for a treat ! I couldn't believe my ears . Listen to the Sirens , Friends , Stormtrooper , Replicas and more . I dreamed of the day when Numan would drop the wannabe Prince stuff and get back to what he does best , and he's done it . The version of Friends really kicks ass and he pulled it off . ( the really fast singing ) Thanks Dave ! I have a problem with The Machman's (J. Tolva) statement in the last digest . Dance was an all time low ?!!! A subway called 'you' ?! LOW ???!!!! How about Metal Rhythm , Outland and Machine + Soul ? That's about as low as you can get ! Not to mention Automatic and all Radio Heart ! Also - for the Sacrifice tour he finally got rid of T.J. Davies and went with a male back up . It works very well. Scorbie. (scraping the barrel? Ha !!!) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Apr 95 12:40:55 EST From: "Kay Teel" Subject: support for a FAQ To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Okay, at least Derek thinks it might be a good idea... That makes 2 of us. > I think we have reached a point where a FAQ might prove useful. I know > I've trotted out the Berserker CD story several times. As you indicate > there are other things that it could include e.g. > * Radio Heart story > * Gary's difficulties with the BBC Now here is exactly where I need help. I stopped reading the British music mags in 1985. I don't know the Radio Heart story, and only know the BBC saga up to 1985. After that, my knowledge of Numan arcana is sketchy. This is why I need help compiling the FAQ, folks! I know a search of the digest archives will fill in some gaps. I haven't actually searched the archives yet, but I can kind of recall the FAQ-type topics that have come up. I know we've discussed the Japanese words, Paul Gardiner's death, lengthy discussion on Philip K. Dick's influence on Numan, and, yes, the Berserker CD. > I'd recommend we keep the full discography separate as it's huge! Agreed. Besides the size problem, there will be people interested in the discography but not the FAQ and vice versa, and the discography would have to updated more often than the FAQ. Question: does the discography include a videography (of the commercial video releases)? If not, that could be a space in the FAQ, too. > How would we handle a FAQ? Would it be posted periodically? Would we just > put it somewhere so people could access it? I suggest: after it's relatively complete, posting it to the digest. I would expect additions and corrections after that, then consider it to be somewhat "definitive." We would definitely want it housed somewhere for people to consult whenever they like. What about at the same place where the discography is? When a newcomer asks a FAQ, they could be directed to the FAQ file. Also, what about posting it to the digest on a regular basis -- say, once a year? Every 6 months? I don't mind compiling it (but if it's just me, it's gonna take a lonnnggggg time) and I don't mind being responsible for revising and updating it. But I don't have the institutional support to maintain the FAQ as an ftp-able file at my site, so its home will have to be elsewhere. I also think it'd be a good idea to do a web version of the FAQ. Now, based on this list, there are at least 2 people working on Numan homepages. Anyone interested in giving the FAQ a web home when it's complete? > I would be willing to contribute the Berserker CD story and my > CDiscography. Thanks! > Is there support elsewhere for a FAQ? Not yet. So if anyone out there wants to help, please let me know. The more help I get, the quicker the FAQ gets done. I know some of you have extensive Numan knowledge that I would like to include. And, of course, if anyone has a topic they want to see in the FAQ, speak now or forever hold your peace! --Kay teelk@elmer1.bobst.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 14:57:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Doug Finney Subject: The Berserker Controversy To: numan@cs.uwp.edu "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" speaks out against making cd copies of Berserker: >The argument that Numa has no control over their back catalogue simply >because it is now out of print is ridiculous. The bulk of your argument is irrelevant in this case. Pirating, such as that you mention occuring in China, involves illegal duplication of (usually current popular) music. These inferior copies undersell the legitimate copies, harming the consumer, the record company and the artist. Despite the fact that we're talking about recordable compact disks and full color inserts it's still a matter of home taping. There is no "market" other than the people who express an interest in advance of production and there is no official release to compete with. Now, I'm _not_ saying we should start making copies of Berserker without discussing things first with the Numan camp. If there is any chance of the cd being re-released I vote for waiting for it. And I certainly agree that if we produce our own copies on cd an appropriate royalty should be figured into the cost and forwarded to Gary. When discussing home taping and bootlegs it's not a matter of black and white; it's important to consider product, the customer and the record label. I firmly believe home taping ultimately benefits both record companies and artists. Sure, there are people who tape a cd from a friend and never buy the product themselves but how many of them would have bought the music anyway? On the other hand there are thousands of people like myself who have spent thousands of dollars on music because we got a chance to hear it for free first. To site an extreme example, about 12 years ago I got a copy of a tape a friend's older brother had made for him. It was my first introduction to such bands as XTC, Oingo Boingo, Talking Heads and Bauhaus. I now own 64 cds by the bands (and their offspring) on that tape! Most record companies, especially the majors, would have you believe that anyone who makes any sort of copy of their product or resells it (the used cd controversy) is a criminal. That's a crock of s**t. Books have been resold for centuries but you don't see book publishers whining about the resale market. Big record companies should be happy they're allowed to screw so many people so badly in the first place. Hell, they're against imports even if they have no plans to release the material themselves. Heaven forbid someone choose to spend an extra $15 to get the Japanese release with 4 bonus tracks instead of settling for the inferior-sounding U.S. release (obviously a hypothetical but true-to-life situation). Rant and Rave mode off. The point is we're talking not talking about making copies of an album rather than buying it. If Gary refuses to re-release it (whether because he doesn't feel he can break even or because he just doesn't want to) I have no moral problem with paying for a recordable cd version. It's no money out of his pocket, even if we didn't send him royalties. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 05:17:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Wagner Subject: This Wreckage Japanese lyric To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Some years ago I believe I heard that the Japanese line in "This Wreckage" translates to "We have become seperate," or something along those lines. Martin (admittedly a gaijin) ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************