Date: Sun, 7 May 95 04:00:05 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 Gary Numan Digest Sun, 7 May 95 Volume 1 : Issue 130 Today's Topics: 2 Gary Numan Digest V1 #129 [1]Gary Numan Digest V1 #12 clarity and covers Down In The Park with Marilyn? Dream Corrosion Fans & Stuff Gary's 'gay' lyrics Gay themes in Numan's work Here's a thought: Rykodisc Hole Is Gary on-line? Answer LIVE POLL: 15 songs you'd die for living ornaments etc... Newsgroups NTSC Video swap Response to "What it means to be a NUMAN FAN" Revision 4.3 of Gary Numan Discography Unsubscribe. Urgh...A Music War www ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Apr 95 07:06:06 -0800 From: Joe.Lindstrom@telekon2.cambo.cuug.ab.ca (Joe Lindstrom) Subject: 2 Gary Numan Digest V1 #129 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Howdy! nue> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:23:36 +1000 nue> From: Donald Neil Pedder nue> Subject: What it means to be a NUMAN FAN nue> To: numan@cs.uwp.edu This is in response to Donald Neil Pedder's post in last week's digest, but is posted here (instead of email) because I'd like to share these observations with everyone. I find myself stuck inbetween the two opposing viewpoints here. On the one hand, I agree with Donald in respect to what I see is sometimes INCESSANT criticism of some portions of Gary's work. Hey, if you don't particularly like Outland, then you don't like it and there's nothing we or anyone else can do about it except try to persuade you to see the album in a new light. You, on the other hand, can do Gary and all of us a lot of harm by continually running down this or any other album. On the other hand (and this I address to Donald) - most of us here don't CONDEMN Gary for putting out some albums that we're not altogether thrilled with. We express our opinions and often don't realize the IMPACT that these offhand comments can have. In other words - don't take the criticisms quite as harshly as they often seem. For example: I consider "Dance" and "I, Assassin" to be Gary's weakest work (although I recognize that from a creative point of view, this was a major undertaking for Gary and certainly a total departure from previous material). Plain and simple: these are two discs that don't make the trip from jewel box to CD player that often. But they *DO* make the trip. The albums are treasured parts of my collection. "I, Assassin" I actually have *THREE* different copies of: the original stripped-down 2fer (with "Telekon"), the newly-released 2-in-1 set (with "Telekon"), and of course Asylum 2. I would never sell them to anyone at any price, although I might will them to another devoted fan (then again, that might add incentive to hurry my death along... grin!) Just because these two albums aren't my favorites doesn't mean I value them less. In fact, every album he's made has been part of a PROGRESSION. A link in a chain. Without each link, there's no chain. All of his subsequent work depended on these two albums (and every one before). Half the fun of being a fan is tracing these progressions, these links in the chain. As a group of fans, we're unique in many respects. 1) We're completists. If a new compilation comes out, which is 90% stuff we've got but 10% new-to-CD, we buy the damned thing. Sounds like we're getting ripped off - maybe in one sense we are, but I feel it's a worthwhile cause... given the tremendous success Gary has enjoyed in the commercial world (insert raspberry here), he could use ALL the support we can give him, and I intend to keep on giving it. I've spent about $700 on my collection - it would have been worth $70,000. Actually, to me it's priceless. 2) We tend to stick together. Given the large number of albums this artist has put out and the TREMENDOUS range of them, it's amazing that we get along half as well as we do. No other group of fans could possibly say the same. 3) In most of our cases, we're not just fans of an artist. To most of us, Gary Numan is *THE* artist, far and away our favorites, often to the point of (and sometimes crossing that line) of obsession. Certainly I've had a few people ask: "geez, Joe, is this guy your hero or something?" and just shake their heads. They just don't understand what we understand. (I often wonder just how Gary feels about all this - he's never been one to enjoy life in the fishbowl, yet his fans scrutinize him more than perhaps any other artist in the world). C'mon gang. Let's all realize right now that not every one of his songs (or albums) is gonna be the be-all, end-all for each and every one of us. Some songs will be extra special, some great, and a few so-so. Let's learn to appreciate our differences rather than single each other out for them. And keep an open mind - I remember MANY issues back when we were discussing which songs had the best "wall of sound", and one writer mentioned that in his opinion, "Films" was #1 for him. I thought the guy was nuts. But a week later, I tossed PP into the CD player and played the song a few times.... and found myself agreeing with him (it didn't move to #1, but it moved *WAY* up near the top). Folks - keep an open mind to what others are saying. They are saying it because they want to SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH YOU. If you just simply go on to the next article, then you haven't gained from the experience. For me, this Digest has been a boon because I've been able to share - I've shared my thoughts and I've listened to yours, and I've gained valuable insights that I would not have gained any other way. Because we're all DIFFERENT. We've got to respect that. And we've got to boost our respect for Gary a bit as well. What? Waitaminit Joe, I thought we all respected Gary highly, that's why we're here! Well, lately we're here to say how wonderful Sacrifice is and what a piece of shit Outland and Machine+Soul are. The "letter to Gary" issue from some time back was a wonderful example - it's one thing to say Sacrifice is outstanding, it's quite another to tell Gary that we thought his other recent works sucked. Face it, people - Gary is doing this to please himself. He's not out to make EVERYBODY happy because he knows he can't - he strives to make himself happy, and anyone else who wants to come along for the ride is welcome aboard. FOR THAT, I RESPECT THE MAN TREMENDOUSLY. He's charting his own course - so let's not slag him too hard when he takes a detour that we don't approve of, ok? That said, let's not get into too big a fight over this. We need each other. Final points, to Donald specifically: 1) I agree with you on the female backing vocals. While in places it HAS been overdone (ie: the "wailing female vox" that some have bitched about), in most cases I feel it's been used VERY effectively, particularly to highlight his own rather unique vocal style (put it into sharp relief, maybe?) An excellent example is the song "My Breathing". This song still ranks as my #1 favorite single track from any of Gary's albums (caveat: I still don't have Sacrifice or most of Berserker), but this song just wouldn't have the same impact *WITHOUT* those "wailing female vox". They simply *MAKE* the song (which is otherwise a tad repetitive in places). Don't believe me? Listen to the live version on Ghost... then listen again to the live version on Dream Corrosion. Ghost has a better synth track but is missing the female vox... Dream Corrosion has a cheesier synth but has the FULL female vox as recorded on the album (and a better mix too), and comes across overall as a *MUCH* better rendition. 2) Sax. I used to hate his use of Sax. Gradually I've changed my mind. Case in point: the album mix of Warriors' "Sister Surprise" contained no sax, but the mix on "Exhibition" did. I always preferred the original... but now I find I prefer the sax mix (although I miss the intro which basically got chopped right out). 3) While I agree that "Outland" is, in many ways, "Metal Rhythm II" (although in places it seems to be a bit of a rush job... kinda Gary's "contractual obligation album"), I disagree about "Machine + Soul" being "Metal Rhythm III", with the possible exception of "U Got The Look". While there ARE similarities, the differences are sufficient to really set it apart... maybe it's the Kipper influence. Particularly strong are "The Skin Game" and "I Wonder" (the latter of which is a HIGHLY underrated song... anyone reading this should really give this one a few listens in a row and see if it doesn't REALLY start to grow on them). That's my two-bits for today. Hmmm.... ok, so I rambled. Make that my $26.72 worth. :-) [~] The Liquid Engineer - Sysop, Strange Charm BBS [~] --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614 -- |Metronet: Joe Lindstrom 201:5500/551 |Internet: Joe.Lindstrom@telekon2.cambo.cuug.ab.ca | | Via Operation Sundevil, Internet Gateway. Calgary Alberta Canada. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 1995 08:03:49 -0500 From: "Joe Abell" Subject: [1]Gary Numan Digest V1 #12 To: "Gary Numan" [1]Gary Numan Digest V1 #129 4/30/95 On vacation (at home) until next Monday, Apr 24th. Call or QuickMail: Victor Alonzo .....1427 Harlon Stewart...1435 Chris Eustice ......2414 (New Trainer) for all computer requests/problems. -Joe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 95 19:41:00 PDT From: "Kotz, Dean C." Subject: clarity and covers To: 'numanews' Thanks to DEREK for answering my questions last week. Although after rereading them, I thought I sounded brusqe and maybe a little rude. While it's probably a moot point, I'd like to clarify a few things. 1)In regards to asking where Gary lives, I never intended to violate Gary's privacy. I merely wondered "whereabouts" he lives in order to get a frame of reference. (i.e. LIVE are from York, PA, MICHAEL STIPE lives in Athens, GA...) Very often where an artist lives greatly influences their work. 2)As for asking about Gary's sexuality, I was curious as to how I should interpret his lyrics as they are usually filled with mystery and strange allusions. For me, understanding and appreciating art requires some knowledge of the artist's life. This is especially true with prose, poetry, and song lyrics. The most important thing one can know about a book is who wrote it. (A novel such as "MR. SAMMLER'S PLANET" would be interpreted quite differently if the writer were a twenty-two year old Italian girl from Seattle. To understand the comic book "CEREBUS", it helps to know the cartoonist is a divorced white male. etc.etc.etc. ) I've never put any one in categories, and I wouldn't start with Mr. Numan. Well, I hope if I've offended anyone, you've forgiven me. On another note: Has anyone ever compiled a list of known recorded Gary covers? I know of ones by THE JUDYBATS, JACK'O'NUTS, BIG HAIR and ROBERT PALMER. Anyone know of others? Dean ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 10:36:51 -0400 From: CChate@aol.com Subject: Down In The Park with Marilyn? To: Numan@cs.uwp.edu O.k. maybe I'm a little behind, or someones yanking my crank. But the other day I was talking to a NIN fan, and he told me that Trent Renzor's side project Marilyn Manson did a cover of Down In the Park. Is this true? I guess its only on a cd single and its out of print, anyone got a copy they would like to get rid of? One more thing, has Gary got on the internet yet? I read once that he hated computers (which surprised me), but that was the mid 80s when computers where still kinda difficult to use. C.C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 95 04:49:00 UTC From: s.aniolowski@genie.geis.com Subject: Dream Corrosion To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have a question about DREAM CORROSION: Gary told me himself in a letter last August that he'd been busy "mixing a triple album and video from my last 'Dream Corrosion' tour...". Is there a three CD set of DREAM CORROSION, as well as the two disk set I have? I agree, too, that it would be great if Numa re-released Gary's stuff like Beggar's Banquet did with old b-sides and rare stuff. That would be one way to put out albums like THE FURY and STRANGE CHARM. Better yet, how about a nice complete boxed set like a number of artists have done? I'm sure that's little more than a fan-dream but what the hell, we can dream can't we? And I'm all for someone getting copies of Gary's videos made so that those of us here in North America (the Numan wasteland) can see them. As for the question of Gary's sexuality -- yeah, I thought he was gay, too, but then it doesn't make a bit of difference, really. I mean, I suppose I DO CARE in as much as it is a part of Gary Numan the man/artist, but it really makes no difference. Fans want to know as much as they can about their favorite celebrities, but I also think they deserve their privacy, too. Yours from Zom Zoms, Scott David Aniolowski Cold warning comes for me.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:58:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: Fans & Stuff To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In regards to the comments on what an edit, mix, and version is and isn't: Personally, rather than try to follow some arcane rules that artists and labels refuse to follw themselves, I always try to refer to these different versions by the exact wording of the song on the source. Thus, even though "edit" usually refers to a shortened version, I'll continue to refer to the song "Magic (Extended Edit)", for example, despite the title being contradictory, because that's how Numa decided to name it, and that's how it'll appear in discogrpahies from here on out. As for the use of *...* for emphasis and _..._ for underlining, I just don't feel this is a particularly important issue. Personally, I use quotation marks when refering to singles, and underlines when refering to albums. I feel no need to capitalize the names of people and don't expect it in return. I shun the use of capitals, unless extreme emphasis is being sought, simply because to me, block capitals create the mental impression that the writer is shouting at me. Regardless of the style used, if the message is conveyed properly, then the form shouldn't matter that much. Having said all that, I agree that an album does not necessarily imply just a vinyl LP. As for the issue as to what a fan is and isn't, all depends on whether one accpets the definition of a fan that was stated here last week or not. I personally feel that I can be a fan and a critic. Trust me, as a *FAN* (see, I did it both ways!) of the Boston Red Sox, I have to temper my enthusiasm with criticism or I'd have committed suicide by now. Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 11:32:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Gary's 'gay' lyrics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, Ill have to post again once I have a look thru some of Gary's old lyrics, but I am gay, and when Gary was at his commercial peak I was 11 or 12 years old and of course battling out certain thoughts in my head about my sexuality. Now even though Gary is straight, he did that Bowie-esque toying with sexuality, and although people such as Bret tfrom Suede get castiogated for it now, all the latent homosexual imagery really helped me sort out all the doubts and feeklings in my head. In the 80's though Gary was shown to be less than sympathetic towards gays; he voted for a conservative government which was all about taking what little rights gays had in this country away from us; he had no idea about Section 28 (the law in the UK that makes 'pr0omoting homosexuality' illegal. However, that could be piut down to ignorance; he DID play a gay club in London last year. Anyway, the point I meant to come to was that although theres a lot of gay imagery in his early lyrics (I will hunt them down and post them next week), I think a lot of it was just lifted whole sale from William Burroughs. I read (or rather tried to read) a couple of his books when I was a teenager and was amazed to discover they were full of Numans lyrics and imagery. So, I diont think using Burroughs words was a conscious effort to play with gay imagery; I just dont think he really knows anything about it, but wrote it just cos it seemed cool... This is just a stream of conciousness really, but try to read 'The Naked Lunc' (Lunch) by William Burroughs and you'll be amazed if you compare it with Tubeway Army or Replicas... Anyway Ill look thru the lyrics this week and remind myself of the lyrics that helped me come to terms with being gay... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 07:58:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Gay themes in Numan's work To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, Ive had a rummage thru my Numan lyrics and have found the ones that had such a great effect on my life when I was 11 or 12 years old. Looking back now, I'm disappointed that all his gay references are negative, or dark, and don't seem very positive at all. However, even the few negative mentions of homosexuality did a lot for me and how I approached my adolescence... OH DIDNT I SAY ============== The waiter is an old man Who looks at me so sly and strange Whats on his mind ? FRIENDS ======= Ive got the time if youve got the money Mister Youll be pleased you'll see Well meet by the tubeway as the screamer cries eleven You can have your way with me JO THE WAITER ============= Jo the waiter held me close Behind a door marked gentlemen . . . Every day I died for you Valium boys with painted eyes (People have sometimes suggested that Jo is a woman because of the spelling of the name but Basic J shows Jo is a man. And is the Every Day I die line a reference to the song, about masturbation ?) BASIC J ======= Jo the waiter smiled at me Jo the waiter's company I keep him in a book by my fireside A drama is my perfect bride THE DREAM POLICE ================ The ageing queens Mister won't you stay a while PRAYING TO THE ALIENS ===================== Slowly the thought there is no one to replace Came into view and he began to cry Now only boys that love only boys The perfect picture of a boy/girl age . . A random pol' check: "Do you ever think of women ?" They broke him down into a torn old queen IT MUST HAVE BEEN YEARS ======================= The driver tries to touch me He mentions all the old cop bullshit I try to back away but hes so strong I just cant move Maybe I dont want to anyway . . A vague feeling of panic as a man leaves saying "Thank-you" Although they all seemed rather sleazy or tragic images of homosexuality, they did help me realise my feelings for other men when I was a teenager, and for this I can only say 'Thanks!' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 17:27:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Wagner Subject: Here's a thought: Rykodisc To: numan@cs.uwp.edu If Beggar's Banquet in the US have no plans to release Gary Numan material, how about those fine folks at Rykodisc? This is a fine label known for top-drawer re-issues and, though they might not be interested in new albums, could conceivably be persuaded to consider releasing either BB's 1993 double Best-Of set, or the 1987 Exhibition set. This in turn could provide Gary the boost he needs in the US to interest a label that isn't half-assed like IRS; I could se Gary getting signed to someone like Giant or Interscope. Ryko is remarkably receptive to suggestions and can be reached at rykodisc@aol.com. I recently sent a message indicating that XTC had just been dropped by Virgin and got a message back from the guy saying thanks for the news and he'd at least bring it to the attention of Ryko's A&R. Hey, it's a thought. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 07:23:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Hole To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, last night I went to Brixton Academy in London to see one of my favourite bands, Hole. The gig was going really well; Courtney seemed coherent and seemed to be having a good time. The gig was getting better all the time as it went on, and then she launched into an incredible version of 'Cars'! It had to be the best Numan cover Ive heard yet - perhaps better than the original! I dunno if its gonna be recorded, but if so, look out for it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:59:51 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Is Gary on-line? Answer To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Last week jfarr@drake.bt.co.uk (Jeff Farr) asked >Does anyone know whether Gary reads these pages, or is even aware he has a >>WWW page? Given his interest in 'electronics' and his recent foray into >>desktop publishing I'd expect him to be an avid surfer. However, I've >>never seen these pages referred to in the Fan Club magazine and wondered >>whether a long-term contribuor couldn't write a bit the www page and the >>Digest and see whether Beryl would like to include it in a future fan >club >article? I am hoping that we might see the day when Gary will be here on the net with us. He has the computing capacity (A Mac PowerPC I think) but probably needs to be hooked up with an on-line server to get to the Internet. I have written a blurb for Beryl to include in one of the UK FC newsletters but it has not been printed. I have told her about the group and how many people read it but I don't think she realizes what an active and important site for information it is becoming. Gary was told about it in an interview over the phone a couple of years ago by a woman in San Francisco. the interview was passed on by Greg (still out there Greg?) and I had permission to typwe it in for the Digest. I was referred to as "a guy in San Diego" if I rememeber correctly. His comment was he was glad it was high-tech. I don't think he knows about the www page and may not know what one is. I will remind Beryl of the service this Digest is giving to fans. I am sure there must be UK FC members on-line who do not know about it. I think we deserve a mention. Maybe one day we could get an album credit like Really Deep Thoughts (the Tori Amos Digest) on her "Under the Pink" album. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:14:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Wagner Subject: LIVE POLL: 15 songs you'd die for To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Here we go. Polling's closed, now, kids, so if you don't like the selections you can just kick yourself for not voting. This list is going to Numa sometime later in the year so that they can check it out in time for the 96 tour. One of my posters from the UK said that setlists for the last two tours were chosen after consulting the fan club, so let's hope we can get some neat surprises next year, hmm? 1. CRASH 2. TELEKON 3. THE AIRCRASH BUREAU 4. MY CENTURION 5. I DREAM OF WIRES 6. THE JOY CIRCUIT 7. STRANGE CHARM 8. DO YOU NEED THE SERVICE? 9. THIS IS MY HOUSE 10. OUT OF SIGHT 11. M.E. 12. A SUBWAY CALLED 'YOU' 13. THE SECRET 14. MY CAR SLIDES 15. SHE'S GOT CLAWS Thanks to all who sent lists. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:55:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "George A. Rosas" Subject: living ornaments etc... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello.. I've been reading the Numan Digest for quite a while now. I have some stuff to sell or trade. I have a copy of LIVING ORNAMENTS 79-80. It is a 2 lp box of the TELEKON tour. It has a very nice tour booklet and some other stuff also. In addition, I have two picture interview discs of G. Numan after a performance during the Pleasure Principle tour. They are two vinyl disks about 25 total time. Good stuff. If you're interested please e-mail me George / grosas@orion.it.luc.edu ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 95 05:52:40 -0800 From: Joe.Lindstrom@telekon2.cambo.cuug.ab.ca (Joe Lindstrom) Subject: Newsgroups To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Howdy from Calgary! I realize that we held a vote not too long back in regards to whether we should keep the Digest as it is, or move it to a newsgroup format. The vote, at that time, was to remain a Digest. That was a short while ago. Since that time, this thing has grown. A WHOLE LOT. I get my Digest through a "gateway" and long messages (past 20K or so I think) get "split" into multiple messages. It was a rare Digest indeed that ever got split. Now I routinely get three-part Digests and it's getting bigger and bigger. This is good, don't get me wrong. Numan fans are finding us in large numbers and it's nice to know that they're out there. But I'd like to see us take another look at going to a newsgroup, either fully replacing this Digest or a seperate newsgroup (say, ALT.MUSIC.GARY-NUMAN) running in tandem with the Digest. The benefits: 1) Traffic levels now warrant newsgroup creation. 2) This once-a-week format has become just too slow for the TYPES of conversations that we're having here. Many threads get moved off into email to get around this problem, yet much of what's discussed in that email would best be discussed publicly, where everyone could join in the fun. 3) Much wider distribution. More Numan fans will stumble onto us if we're a newsgroup than if we're a Digest. I'm still an internet newbie. I don't know what all's involved in getting a new newsgroup set up. Somebody mentioned something about turning the Digest into a "mirror" of the newsgroup, whatever that's all about. Whatever. These are various options that we could look at. But in the meantime, the circumstances have changed quite a bit since we last took the vote, and I think it was our lower traffic volumes that tilted the scales in favor of sticking with the Digest format. This has changed dramatically and traffic seems to be rising by leaps and bounds. It's my belief that the format we're using, which has served us admirably in the past, now does more to CONSTRICT the free exchange of ideas than it does to aid it. So, let's talk about it. Please: 1) Post your thoughts on it here in the Digest, *AND* 2) I'd like to take a straw poll. Please email me with either a yes or a no to a change of format. I know there are many permutations and combinations - vote yes or no to INCLUDING A NEWSGROUP (either by itself, in tandem with the Digest, as a mirror of the Digest, whatever). This vote won't be binding - I'm just interested in seeing what the general consensus is out there. Try to send your votes to my *NEW* address of: Joe.Lindstrom@strange.cambo.cuug.ab.ca (That's "strange" as in "Strange Charm", of course) [~] The Liquid Engineer [~] --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614 -- |Metronet: Joe Lindstrom 201:5500/551 |Internet: Joe.Lindstrom@telekon2.cambo.cuug.ab.ca | | Via Operation Sundevil, Internet Gateway. Calgary Alberta Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 06:20:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Monica Tolva Subject: NTSC Video swap To: gary numan digest Hello Numanoids, I'd like to see if anyone is interested in swapping copies of NTSC format videos. I have and would be willing to swap copies of the following: The Touring Principle w/1 track from URGH! A Music War (DITP) Micromusic (1 hr 54 min version) Newman Numan Berserker I would like to trade for the following: Shadow Man The Skin Mechanic Dream Corrosion >From the above it should be quite obvious that I have the "older" stuff, but would like to trade for the "newer" stuff. Can anyone help? The Machman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 17:02:03 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Response to "What it means to be a NUMAN FAN" To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:23:36 +1000 Donald Neil Pedder stated: > The cause of my angst is "the letter". each reference I saw to this got me >all churned up inside, as I disagreed strongly with ANY criticism of GARY for >a NUMBER of reasons. > 1. Firstly I try to follow the policy of "if you don't have anything nice to >say then don't say anything". SURE, people may DISLIKE his recent stuff, but >instead of just writing it off, you should apply CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. i.e. >this song could be better like this - if you think the song is BEYOND >improvement (as some people may) then SHUT-UP! I know it's been said that GARY >himself wasn't happy with everything - but that's still no reason. Why kick a >dog when he's down? But Gary is not down. He has clearly been exhilarated by the creation of Sacrifice and its reception among fans. The letter lauded the new album while gently telling him that is a big improvement over the albums which he himself now berates. He acknowledged Outland and Machine and Soul almost killed his career. The letter supported his own perspective. I think it was constructive. "You are back on track, keep up the good work, we look forward to more". > 2. The reason I like NUMAN so much (as noted in my "intro") is the great >VARIETY of stuff he comes up with. At this point I will discuss THE SUBJECT! >WHAT IS A FAN? Well, the word is obviously derived from FANATIC - and it is my >PERSONAL opinion (this is a disclaimer - please don't send any >>"counter-flames") >that if your opinion of someone (in this case GARY) fluctuates according to >"what have you done for me lately" then you're not really a FAN. A FAN (of >>which I am one) looks forward to everything - doesn't think "I HOPE this >will >be good" SURE I can be disappointed (initially) but that doesn't >diminish my >anticipation for the next time (more on this soon). I think a >TRUE fan looks >forward to the next time no matter what happened the last >time! (If you're >wondering about the generality in my speech here it is >because I think this >applies to ANY fan - music,sport,whatever). Some >have said that SACRIFICE has >restored their anticipation for more stuff. >Wrong Attitude from my point of >view. I look forward to new output from Gary but I am not going to suspend my true feelings to be considered a fan. Outland was a huge disappointment for me. I liked Metal Rhythm but Outland incorporated musical elements I don't like and continued the ones that I disliked that had crept into Gary's music. As Al Crawford once said about "U Got the Look" - Gary meets Prince and the song loses. Outland was derivative of a music genre I do not enjoy. This did not stop me from looking forward to M&S. What Sacrifice has done is removed the trepidation associated with the anticipation of new releases I used to feel and replaced it with genuine excitement. > SPECIFICALLY about FANS of NUMAN. Some people have a mindset with their >>music that they like a certain style and they don't want to see that >changed. >You CANNOT have that attitude with NUMAN. He's great because he >does stuff like >NO-ONE else. And whilst there are things that no-one else has done - there are >still avenues to be explored. A lot of people on this list really like TPP. >Yeah! Great Album. But how would it be if EVERY album was like it! Imagine GARY >releasing TPP II, TPP III, TPP IV, TPP V,etc. Don't you think that would get >boring eventually? I do! And there are still many avenues that Gary has not explored. He has experimented with punk, electro, jazz, funk, blues, grunge, and dance. And for the most part he has done so with unique and interesting results. His excursion into American dance with Outland IMO did not work. Gary let his unique touch get swallowed up in Janet Jacksonisms. > I mentioned disappointment earlier - Here's the story. I like OUTLAND. It's >not one of my all-time favourites , but I LIKE it. But, I must say I was >disappointed initially. this was the FIRST time ever I was disappointed by >>GARY, and you know why? Because it was the FIRST album that wasn't a >MAJOR >departure from the previous album (METAL RHYTHM). GARY does >something different >almost every time, and this was the FIRST time he >didn't. METAL RHYTHM is a >true classic. LIKE IT OR NOT - It is COMPLETELY >different to ANYTHING ANYONE >has ever done before (think of what classic >means - derived from "class". METAL >RHYTHM is in a CLASS of it's OWN). >Some people don't like it,FINE. Doesn't make >it any less of a classic. >Now we have OUTLAND. "What? still using those >rhythms!" EVERY album >before had something distinctive about it, but OUTLAND >was ALMOST METAL >RHYTHM II (and M+S METAL RHYTHM III). BUT I'm still a FAN and >still >LOOKING FORWARD. If NUMAN had NEVER released the other stuff I STILL >>would've liked these albums. I can hear elements of MR, M&S and Sac in Outland. Even though it has similarities to MR it is still very different. Why would I like MR very much but not Outland otherwise? I accept Outland for what it is and that it is what Gary wanted to do at the time (bar unconfirmed interference from IRS) however, that is not going to make me like it. To say I did would be lying. > NOTE: I think the period DANCE-METAL RHYTHM was the BEST EVER. 1. bring >in some SAX. And how about some FUNKY BASS. 2. let's chuck some REAL NOISE >in here. 3.Follow that with some neat little stuff with the rhythm section, and >(after all these years) let's get some WOMEN in here (I know some of you don't >like it but it IS an added dimension - I'm still waitng for a bona-fide duet), >and now (4.) let's get REALLY POWERFUL and blow the people out of their >lounge-room. 5. let's get almost orchestral with our arranging, and >finally >(6.) let's REALLY beef up these Rhythms so that melody is almost >incidental. Your progression is a reasonable one but the results are more complex than what this progression might suggest. I admire Gary's willingness to try new things but some things I tire of easily. One of the things I liked about Gary's music was his strong melodies. Outland is his weakest album melodically IMO. The female vocals were a welcome addition on Berserker, were overused on The Fury, were used with mixed results on Strange Charm and had become obsolete by MR. He then continued to use them in the same way on two more albums. > 3. I know (now) that DEREK added a cover-note to say that this didn't speak >for everyone, but it would've been better if there were TWO letters. Then there >would be an alternative letter for people to put their name too if they liked >SACRIFICE, but HAVE been happy recently anyway! I had 50 people add their name to the letter, and only a few (less than 5) who did not like the implicit criticism. The letter was changed after suggestions to deemphasize the negative. I feel comfortable with what I wrote. It expressed my and other people's opinion about Gary's music. We wanted to tell him to continue doing what he was doing now - which was a departure from the approach he had before. It was a letter of encouragement. > That's enough from me. I think you get the point. I AM happy to discuss this >further should anyone wish to take up on some of these points (and I mean >>BEYOND just saying "I though MR was shit" - but you should know that now >>anyway). You raise a perspective that may be similar to that of others. I do not agree on all points and have tried to point them out above. Heck, you raise so many issues I could write a lot more. This list was started after MR and before Outland. It has survived and added members. I am sure we are a diverse bunch. I am glad there is a forum where we can discuss such things. Derek P.S. I don't use UPPERCASE letters on-line because on the Internet that's considered to be shouting rather than just *emphasis* (the normal use for asterisks). Some folk use _underscores_ in lace of quotes but that may because quotation marks mean something else in computer code and thus are avoided. People are used to using them instead of quotes. Reasonable? __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 07:12:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Monica Tolva Subject: Revision 4.3 of Gary Numan Discography To: gary numan digest For all those who have been asking about updates to the Gary Numan discography (Dave Datta version on the net), revision 4.3 is now available! These updates are through the "A Question Of Faith" CD5 single with some corrections and additions throughout the discography. Check it. The Machman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 04:13:30 -0400 From: Artemis7@aol.com Subject: Unsubscribe. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Unsubscribe Artemis7@aol.com Art Agunod ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 13:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: ULBRICHT <98647169@wsunix.wsu.edu> Subject: Urgh...A Music War To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Ed-- It was 'Down in the Park' on vol. 2, not 'Cars.' Unless I am GRAVELY mistaken, 'Cars' was not on the Urgh cassette. It's been a number of years since I've seen anything on 'Urgh,' but, then again....The only reason why I feel so confident on this one is because I had trouble finding 'Down in the Park' ANYWHERE. I was in a used tape store and ran across this. I thought I was going to faint. I only have vol. 2, though, so I may be speaking out of ignorance. Does anyone out there know anything about the video to 'Down in the Park?' I have a video of 'Down in the Park' that looks like it is from the GN live video--but it's not. The video is complete with the spinning pyramids and lighting circa late 70's/early 80's Numan-style. I was told that there was a DIFFERENT video for 'Down in the Park.' Anybody have any info? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 08:22:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: www To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Is there a numan homepage anywhere...? ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************