Date: Sun, 14 May 95 04:00:07 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #131 Gary Numan Digest Sun, 14 May 95 Volume 1 : Issue 131 Today's Topics: ADMINISTRIVIA "Let me make myself clear" - email style Absolution problem - what problem? American Fans am I alone? Being a NUMAN fan - counterresponse Dark Light Down In The Park videos - answer Dream Corrosion - answer Dream set-list comments Format of Digest/NewsGroup Gary's 'gay' lyrics Gary's 'gay' lyrics... repost Gary's sexuality. Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 (4 msgs) Hey, guess what, Numanoids? Loose Ends marylin manson in the park Newgroup?? reverence..? Nine Inch Nails Rykodisc/Numa reissues The Critic Tubeway Army singles for sale VERSION/EDIT/MIX - counter-response WWW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:22:50 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello, Many of you noticed that last week's Digest was truncated. I sent out full copies to everyone on Wednesday but received a MAILER-DAEMON message back indicating it was not delivered to some addresses. If you did not receive the full Digest mid-week, please email me and I'll forward it to you. The problem was a recurrence of one that happened at the end of last year i.e. lone periods (full stops) on lines after a carriage return. This is an "end of file" command for many programs and as a result the Digest gets stopped in its tracks. I'll reiterate my warning. PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS COMBINATION OF CHARACTERS IN YOUR POSTS TO THE DIGESTS (especially you Andy :-). (yes, I was shouting). It disrupts the Digest and causes me extra work to get the full Digest out. For those who can't wait to get the full Digest is always available via anonymous ftp from cs.uwp.edu in the pub/music/lists/numan/Digest/ directory. As already pointed out, we should review the format of the Digest again as it has grown considerably. There is no panacea with any format though. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:08:04 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: "Let me make myself clear" - email style To: numan@cs.uwp.edu WARNING! this posting does not mention GN in ANY way. But when someone prods me - I bite! (but in a nice kind of way). Some would say that this reply should be sent personally, rather than in the digest - but some people may learn a thing or two if I post it here, and you can never have too much knowledge - I would like to see this group become the most-informed group on the net. We're already the most-informed music fans, aren't we? I made an offhand comment about "my" style of emphasis - and got dismissive responses back. HEY! - I wasn't saying others HAD to use it - I was just saying that my style is different, and IMPLIED why this was so. Since these responses were made, I shall state EXPLICITLY some facts on why I use this style. Someone said in these pages recently that they don't get involved in an argument unless they KNOW what they are talking about. I'm EXACTLY the same. Having said that I am NOT looking for an argument (you won't change MY mind), but wish to impress that I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I made a comment in my original posting about the "outside world" in reference to people not on "the net". This is what I meant..... I WORKED with computers (mainframes) for 7 years. And I'm studying computers at UNI - So I've used a computer almost every day of my life for the last 10 years. I've only been a "surfer" for the last month (I'd never really used a computer for purely personal reasons until last year). Now I don't want to offend any "scholarly" people (of which I am one NOW), I am merely stating fact - the reason I emphasized that I've WORKED with computers is that the educational world and the "real" world are worlds apart. things are taught at UNI which have no bearing on what happens once you are "out there" in the commercial world. Programming style is an example I've had first hand experience with. The way program layout is taught at UNI ISN'T the sort of layout I'd want to be looking at, trying to decipher, at 4 in the morning (which is something I had to do fairly often). I say all this because the most recent figures I've seen for INTERNET usage is that ABOUT 70-80% of users were at educational institutions. (i.e. most haven't been "out there" yet). This is relevant BECAUSE e-mail PRE-DATES the Internet. i.e. institutions/corporations,etc. were using e-mail (on LAN's) BEFORE anyone had heard of "the information super-highway"). THIS IS WHERE I GET TO THE POINT...... (I'm NOT shouting).... - sending an e-mail is SUPPOSED to be no different to writing a letter - ONLY the method of delivery is different. - quotation marks are used for ..... quotes! NO other special significance. - emphasis is NORMALLY achieved in a written letter by under-lining, but you can't do that on a computer (not unless you leave the whole next line blank so that you can put lines under the word in question). The OTHER common method of emphasis is CAPITAL LETTERS. the way to "shout" in a letter is to put exclamation marks!!!! (just as the name implies). Did you see that episode of Seinfeld?!!! I think this "capital letters=shouting" thing is an urban myth. When I saw it written in my net documentation I though they were JOKING. Exclamation marks are shouting. e.g. Help - a plaintive call. HELP - emphasis on help. Help!! - shouting help. HELP!! - a last desperate call. the REALLY ODD thing is the use of asterisks and underscores to show emphasis - these 2 things DO both have special significance in a computer environment - I can only guess that whoever started this "convention" didn't have a substantial computer background (BTW my net documentation does NOT mention these methods). *.* is a common part of computer commands, and if an Internet user (Non-computer background) were reading a computer-related e-mail using this, they would probably be thinking "*Why* is he emphasizing a full-stop??". - the MAIN difference between e-mail and letters is that you may have a number of people reading an e-mail (other than the intended recipient)- thus the convention of copying portions of the original into your response (so THEY know what you're talking about). UNFORTUNATELY people got a LOT carried away with this ("O.K. let's get this sucker copied in here.....right! my reply is..."). this has even got to the stage of appearing in PERSONAL replies (as if The original sender doesn't know what he wrote in the first place!). When you reply to a LETTER do you copy it out before replying??? (Does anyone write letters anymore?). Enough on that. Let's talk NUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONALD PEDDER. never gonna "slide out of SYDNEY and...never go back" P.S. regarding having NAMES in capitals - I did a speed reading course last year and you know what words stick in your mind the most when "skimmimg" through a page - words with capital letters. they are saying "Look at me!" (Try it!). Thus I always put names in capitals (even BEFORE I did this course) as a COURTESY. If I'm in a rush when I got the digest I would quickly scan for references to myself ("what are they saying about me NOW" :-) ) and read the rest later. "Live long and prosper". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:03:56 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Absolution problem - what problem? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Sun, 30 Apr 95 06:15:00 UTC king1@genie.geis.com asked: >Does anybody else have the same problem with their 'Absolution' discs? >There are audible 'clicks'in my copy of it. They in Absolution at >occur at :53, 1:26, 3:06, 3:24, and at 4:18. Plus I heard some in >'Magic', but I didn't bother to find them all. I carefully listened to Absolution but could not find anything at these points or elsewhere. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 95 02:38:00 UTC From: s.aniolowski@genie.geis.com Subject: American Fans To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I've been following all of this recent "what it means to be a Gary Numan fan" discussion with interest. I suppose fans and fandom are different things to different people? We all have our opionions, and it seems rather absurd to think any of us will change anyone else's opinions. But we don't need to argue, either. Something I found especially interesting last week was the mention of Beryl not realizing how active and important this weekly newsletter is. Certainly, neither Gary nor NUMA, nor any of the fine people associated with the Numan machine owes any of us anything, however, I think those non-European fans among us deserve to be recognized. I mean, we all know that it is real work to be an active Numan fan here in the States where radio stations don't play Gary, MTV and VH1 and similar video stations don't play Gary, and the discovery of a Numan CD in most music stores is a rare treat. Luckily I live only two hours from Toronto (where they at least KNOW who Gary Numan is!), or else my own Numan collection would be nearly non-existent. And it would seem that many if not most of us here are long-time and VERY loyal fans. It sounds as though a great number of us became Numan fans during the REPLICAS/PLEASURE PRINCIPLE/TELEKON days and have remained loyal since. What percentage of readers do you think are in the 30+ age range? So few "younger" people even know who Gary is here in the States, and what a shame they're missing so much just because he gets ignored here by the music industry. Let's face it, Gary's a significant part of modern music history. He was one of the pioneers of the synth/electronic movement along with the likes of Kraftwerk and John Foxx. Unlike scores of other British synth bands of the 80's, Gary has evolved through punk, synth, electronic, jazz, fundance, electro-pop, and other styles. No wonder his career has survived while so many others' shriveled up and died (just WHERE are A Flock of Seagulls, Classix Nouveaux, Visage, and so many of the others NOW?). But I digress.... So I think instead of arguing about this album or that, or about the morality of copying CDs or video tapes for those who couldn't otherwise get them, we ought to rally together and support Gary, and maybe turn our attention to convincing someone in the North American music industry what a coup it would be to sign Gary over here! Maybe if enough of Gary's fans made noise over here he'd get some of the attention that he so deserves? Just a few thoughts. Hey Derek & company - thanks for the great Numan newsletter. I'm glad I found you. Yours from Zom Zoms, Scott David Aniolowski Cold Warning Comes for me.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 21:23:54 -0400 From: PaddyGav@aol.com Subject: am I alone? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I didn't get my news this week. . . did I do something bad? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:08:53 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: Being a NUMAN fan - counterresponse To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi! Well, I'm back into the fray after having no time to post last week. This is my response, to other's responses, to my "verbal" outpouring on being a NUMAN fan. - JOE thought, that I thought that others were "condemning" GARY with their criticism. I didn't think that at all. I KNOW that criticism is inevitable, but the POINT is, that I was upset by the criticism (implicit or not) making it's way to GARY (via "the letter"). More on this later. - JOE also thought that it is "amazing" that we (NUMAN fans) can get on given the RANGE of styles he's done. I think that that's the reason WE DO. You HAVE TO have an open mind to enjoy his work - for if you don't there is inevitably going to be something he does that you don't like AT ALL. - I agree that NUMAN is THE ARTIST (thus why I got SO upset by "the letter"). - I wasn't singling anyone out. the purpose of my posting wasn't to put people down - but to relate MY idea of what being a "FAN" means, and possibly get some people to have a think about that and maybe question the attitude(s) they have. Specifically, is it a good idea to "pass-on" criticism to GARY? - I didn't say OUTLAND WAS MRII. I said it ALMOST was (ditto M&S). the 3 albums (& SACRIFICE) each have a DISTINCT sound - but in EACH case it is built AROUND that "metal rhythm" (lot's of Synth. percussion in intricate rhythms). As I said previuosly OUTLAND was the FIRST album which wasn't streets apart from the one before. I was dissappointed - but NOT to the point of wanting to criticize GARY for it. I like EVERYTHING he does - major change or not. Having said that I WOULD like to see emphasis moved back to the Synth. O.K. That deals with what JOE said, Now onto DEREK - - I made A comment about "Why kick a dog when he's down?" to which DEREK replied that GARY'S NOT down. He's not down about what he's JUST DONE, but (if these are true reports) he IS down about what has gone just before. I'll make an analogy to illustrate. Let's say a couple of years ago YOU did something stupid (I'm NOT saying what GARY did is stupid - this is an analogy). Let's say it caused a lot of people a lot of trouble. You NOW KNOW that it was wrong and you deeply regret it. WOULD YOU REALLY want someone reminding you about it?? I'd Probably biff them on the nose and say "Let sleeping dogs lay". When someone verbalizes about something, which you are ALREADY upset about, then it just MAKES IT WORSE. I was engaged a few years back, and things didn't work out. In retrospect I shoudn't have gotten engaged in the first place - but that doesn't mean I want everybody else telling me that. It just stirs up the pain again. - I ALWAYS look forward to new NUMAN, no matter what the last thing was like. - I KNOW the for/against ratio (for the letter) was about 50/5, and that's EXACTLY what I think should've been related to GARY. He can then decide "try to keep most people happy?...keep doing what I like as long as SOMEONE still likes it?..." etc. Again I say there should've been TWO letters - one for the 50,and one for the 5. GARY would then have "the big picture". Having said that I STILL say it's not nice to (negatively) criticize the past. 'Nuff said. DONALD PEDDER. never gonna "slide out of SYDNEY and...never go back" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 22:13:14 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: Dark Light To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I called ABCD on Wednesday and they told me the much anticipated live album from the _Sacrifice_ tour will be released on 15 May 1995 in the UK. Import copies should be available about a week later. Like with _Dream Corrosion_ there will be an EP CD single released along with the regular double CD containing highlights from the entire concert. Both will be going under the name "Dark Light." Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:06:07 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: Down In The Park videos - answer To: numan@cs.uwp.edu There are TWO video versions of "DOWN IN THE PARK". The "first" is the one mentioned with the pyramids. It is from "GARY NUMAN - The Touring Principle '79". Also on "NEW MAN NUMAN". I THINK that this came out because EITHER - DITP was re-released after AFE - or it was to promote TTP '79 ( the FIRST EVER commercial music home-video). the "other" video was in "URGH! A Music War", and is from "MICROMUSIC". It's the one where he's sitting in that "contraption" whizzing around. DONALD PEDDER. never gonna "slide out of SYDNEY and...never go back" (SEE! I CAN do short replies :-) ). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 09:45:29 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Dream Corrosion - answer To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Thu, 4 May 95 at 04:49:00 s.aniolowski@genie.geis.com >I have a question about DREAM CORROSION: Gary told me himself in a letter >>last August that he'd been busy "mixing a triple album and video >from my last 'Dream Corrosion' tour...". Is there a three CD set of DREAM >>CORROSION, as well as the two disk set I have? No, the vinyl was 3 records but it fit on two CDs. The whole concert is on the CD. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:43:24 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Dream set-list comments To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Just a note on the poll results for a dream set list for Gary: I noticed some tracks have already been performed live and put out on CD (or will be out soon). Specifically I refer to: 5. I DREAM OF WIRES (coming on Sacrifice live album I think) 6. THE JOY CIRCUIT (on Living Ornaments 80) 8. DO YOU NEED THE SERVICE? (coming on Sacrifice live album) 11. M.E. (on Living Ornaments 79) I tried to keep my list to completely new-to-live material. Generally the list was much in agreement with mine. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:05:30 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: Format of Digest/NewsGroup To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I agree with the point mentioned earlier about going to a NEWSGROUP - Lot's of unwanted "noise" ("you guys must be queer to like gary newman - he's crap",etc.). I think stay the same - but increase frequency. i.e. TWICE a week - or a reflector (although apparently some people can't receive reflector's). TOTAL AMOUT - $0.02. DONALD PEDDER. never gonna "slide out of SYDNEY and...never go back" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 22:54:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Al Crawford Subject: Gary's 'gay' lyrics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu And, lo, Andy McHaffie spake unto the Numanoid masses, saying: > > In the 80's though Gary was shown to be less than sympathetic towards > gays; he voted for a conservative government which was all about taking > what little rights gays had in this country away from us; he had no idea > about Section 28 (the law in the UK that makes 'promoting homosexuality' > illegal. > > However, that could be piut down to ignorance; he DID play a gay club in > London last year. Oh, come on, isn't this oversimplifying the issue a little? People vote for a *lot* of reasons, and reducing someone's vote to whether or not they're anti-gay is a gross simplification. Does the fact that Labour were against Section 28 automatically mean that anyone who voted for Labour was gay-friendly? Of course it doesn't. Most people don't vote on a single issue. It's one of the inconsistencies of politics that people often end up voting for policies that they don't agree with simply because the other parties have polocies they disagree with even more. That Gary voted conservative has a great deal to do with his background and the fact that the guy has always come across as a pretty staunch capitalist, and probably very little to do with any malice towards gays. However, enough of politics. I'd personally never really thought about Gary's sexuality. Sure, I'd notice what seemed to be gay themes in some of the older material but I didn't really think twice about it and, has been said, Gary was one of the many early 80s artists whose image was often androgynous. I mean, just look at John Foxx - Gary's image is positively macho compared to the androgyny that Foxx projected at times (i.e. the "He's A Liquid" video). It's interesting to hear that Gary's lyrics have helped some people get a handle on their sexuality though. Returning to matters more Numan related, and less to do with either Gary's sexuality or politics, I at long last got hold of the extended _Sacrifice_ recently. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed. While I was pleased that none of the songs were transformed into "Seed of A Lie (180BPM Rave Remix)" or whatever, I didn't feel that the remixes really added anything to the tracks. If anything, they diluted them, stretching the same amount of material over a few extra minutes. I think that of the two I prefer the original album. It's more concise, has more impact and just isn't as drawn out. Am I in a minority of one here? -- Al Crawford - awrc@access.digex.net http://www.access.digex.net/~awrc "Art/Empire/Industry" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 08:08:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Gary's 'gay' lyrics... repost To: numan@cs.uwp.edu REPOST - APOLOGIES FOR LAST ATTEMPT WHICH HAD SINGLE PERIODS ON SOME LINES WHICH APPARENTLY IS A CONTROL CODE FOR END OF FILE.... Sorry!!! Well, Ive had a rummage thru my Numan lyrics and have found the ones that had such a great effect on my life when I was 11 or 12 years old. Looking back now, I'm disappointed that all his gay references are negative, or dark, and don't seem very positive at all. However, even the few negative mentions of homosexuality did a lot for me and how I approached my adolescence... OH DIDNT I SAY ============== The waiter is an old man Who looks at me so sly and strange Whats on his mind ? FRIENDS ======= Ive got the time if youve got the money Mister Youll be pleased you'll see Well meet by the tubeway as the screamer cries eleven You can have your way with me JO THE WAITER ============= Jo the waiter held me close Behind a door marked gentlemen Every day I died for you Valium boys with painted eyes (People have sometimes suggested that Jo is a woman because of the spelling of the name but Basic J shows Jo is a man. And is the Every Day I die line a reference to the song, about masturbation ?) BASIC J ======= Jo the waiter smiled at me Jo the waiter's company I keep him in a book by my fireside A drama is my perfect bride THE DREAM POLICE ================ The ageing queens Mister won't you stay a while PRAYING TO THE ALIENS ===================== Slowly the thought there is no one to replace Came into view and he began to cry Now only boys that love only boys The perfect picture of a boy/girl age A random pol' check: "Do you ever think of women ?" They broke him down into a torn old queen IT MUST HAVE BEEN YEARS ======================= The driver tries to touch me He mentions all the old cop bullshit I try to back away but hes so strong I just cant move Maybe I dont want to anyway A vague feeling of panic as a man leaves saying "Thank-you" Although they all seemed rather sleazy or tragic images of homosexuality, they did help me realise my feelings for other men when I was a teenager, and for this I can only say 'Thanks!' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 08:09:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Gary's sexuality. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, unfortunaately (for me) I have to report that Gary has had a long term girlfriend for quite some time...(Then again, so had Elton John!!! :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 03:16:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven J. Lilly" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I only got a small part of this weeks digest...EEK! What happened? (p.s. What Numan song did the Judybats cover and where?) Cheers--- Steve lilly@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 22:51:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Wagner Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Derek, I'm not sure I received the entire digest this time. I know I didn't see my poll results therein, although the subject line was clearly in the contents column. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 00:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mr. Bug Zapper" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Could someone send me Digest # 130 again, since I only got part of it? ____ __________________________ __\ __ ____ / omega@io.org __\ __ / http://www.io.org/~omega \ /\ __________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 14:03:16 -0400 From: BarryJason@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #130 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Derek-- Is it possible something went wrong with digest 130? Many topics were listed up top, but only about half of them appeared in the digest. Perhaps there was a second part (as is usual) that I somehow didn't receive? Can you help?? Sincerely, Barry Jason Marx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 12:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: atomic@netcom.com (atomic city) Subject: Hey, guess what, Numanoids? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Numanews Mailing List) Can you see her little eyes? Can you see her little hands? Don't you think she looks just like me? Can you hear her little scream? Can you hear her little cry? Don't you think she sounds just like me? ['She' is Julia Grace Metlay, born 3 May 95 after a short but tough labor. Mother is doing fine; baby seems healthy enough but has eyes like the painting on the back cover of the 'Replicas' LP. Disturbing.] mike -- Six bits at like 10 kHz. The kick drum sounds like a pit in a vinyl record. The snare sounds like a gerbil snapping its fingers. And the hihat...aieee. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 usa atomic@netcom.com * atomic-city@netcom.com * http://pd.net/atomic-city ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 95 17:18:12 From: jon.lester@index.com Subject: Loose Ends To: numan@cs.uwp.edu First off, where is the rest of last week's issue? My copy got cut off in the middle. Is it just my mail server? Other loose ends: yes, there is a Marilyn Manson cover of `Down In the Park' on a CD-5 but I haven't seen it yet. I wouldn't have high hopes for their rendition of it since it's very much out of character for them to perform that song. Trent Reznor produced it but MM is not a side project of his, they are a Florida band he likes and has on his label, Nothing. I think they suck, personally. Has anyone here heard the NIN version of `Metal'? I hope Reznor hasn't ruined it like he did Joy Division's `Dead Souls'. I was not aware of Numan covers by the Judy Bats and Big Hair; I will look for those. Other bands covering Numan I can tell you about: I pretty much inspired Jack'o'Nuts to cover `My Shadow In Vain' because I was working with Brooks Carter at the time and I played a lot of TA on the job. Brooks and I are in a side project called Broom Room Annex that has done a few TA songs but will not release any for sale. For a limited time you can hear a sample of us doing "Oh!Didn't I Say" on the RTE Web page, [http://www.grady.uga.edu/ML/Fitzpatrick/RTE.html]. There also is a cheesy gothic band here in Athens called The Endless; they recently recorded a cover of `You Are In My Vision', a song my old band Refuse Factory used to do at shows on occasion. My other band Radio:Tahiti has performed an adapted version of `Stormtrooper In Drag' a few times but probably won't do it any more since we have such a large catalog of originals. You know, with all these Numan covers happening and a few more that surely will be made anyway, maybe Gary should think of a good charity for which to market a tribute album. Hell, after the Led Zeppelin and Kiss tributes, it would only look all the better. Thoughts, anyone? -Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 13:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: bubble sorter Subject: marylin manson in the park To: numan@cs.uwp.edu my band ZIA in boston, massachusetts, opened up for marylin manson at a club called the middle east, a month or two ago, where i got to see a live version of their cover of down in the park, during soundcheck. i don't know if they did it during their set. it was pretty good, especially considering it was more centered on bass than keyboards. anyway jsut so you know it really happened. erin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 15:40:38 -0400 From: ZigiF@aol.com Subject: Newgroup?? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi, all-- Joe.Lindstrom@strange.cambo.cuug.ab.ca (Joe Lindstrom) writes: > The vote, at that time, was to remain a Digest. > > That was a short while ago. Since that time, this thing has grown. A > WHOLE LOT. I get my Digest through a "gateway" and long messages (past > 20K or so I think) get "split" into multiple messages. This happens to me, too! It hasn't been an inconvenience for me, but I can understand how it might be so for some. > But I'd like to see us take another look at going to a newsgroup, either > fully replacing this Digest or a seperate newsgroup (say, > ALT.MUSIC.GARY-NUMAN) running in tandem with the Digest. I definitely DON'T want to see the list *replaced* by a newsgroup. Newsgroups invite annoyances, and discussions tend to be more fragmented than on lists (at least in the topics I'm familiar with, having both NG's and lists). However, I wouldn't mind seeing the Numanews moved to a twice- or even thrice-weekly digest, perhaps, nor would I mind seeing (as Joe suggests) an NG running in tandem with it. I'm on a couple of lists on topics which also have NG's, and in general they seem to complement each other well, although the signal-to-noise ratio is invariably better on (these particular) lists (as opposed to the NG's). I think the mail volume is still too low for a daily-mail format, but maybe right for an every-three-days format. Curious to hear what everyone else thinks. Zig Ziggy Blum ZigiF@aol.com Ziggyb@efn.org _________________________________________________ Should I pursue a path so twisted, Should I crawl, defeated and gifted? --Patti Smith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 07:56:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: reverence..? Nine Inch Nails To: numan@cs.uwp.edu First of all, I strongly disagree that we should only post positive posts about Gary. I have been following him for 16 years, and have supported him by buying all his records and seeing him play live many, many times. If he does something I don't like, then I don't see why I shouldn't say so (eg Absolution). I am a fan of Gary, but he's not beyond writing the odd (in fact, quite a few) dodgy songs...We'd be kidding ourselves if we thought otherwise, or if we thought that every album he produces, or move he makes is a masterpiece. Secondly, with reference to the Marylin Manson cover of DITP (I didnt realise that was Trent Reznor), apparently an journalist for an american magazine went to interview Trent at his studio and found him in the process of recording a version of "Metal". Wow - can you imagine just how awesome the Nine Inch Nailsversion could be!!!??! Whether it gets released is another matter though, although NIN have been well known for their off the wall covers (eg Queen's 'Get Down Make Love', Adam & The Ants 'Physical', and Soft Cell's "Memorabilia" so I think theres a strong chance it'll turn up!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:01:30 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Rykodisc/Numa reissues To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Sun, 30 Apr 1995 17:27:32 -0500 Martin Wagner wrote: >If Beggar's Banquet in the US have no plans to release Gary Numan >material, how about those fine folks at Rykodisc? This is a fine label >known for top-drawer re-issues and, though they might not be interested >in new albums, could conceivably be persuaded to consider releasing >either BB's 1993 double Best-Of set, or the 1987 Exhibition set. This in >turn could provide Gary the boost he needs in the US to interest a label >that isn't half-assed like IRS; I could se Gary getting signed to someone >like Giant or Interscope. Someone said they heard rumours that BB were going to release Gary's BB catalogue in the US. If they are not then Rykodisc would be a good idea because of their known dedication to sound quality value (bonus tracks). >Ryko is remarkably receptive to suggestions and can be reached at >rykodisc@aol.com. I recently sent a message indicating that XTC had just >been dropped by Virgin and got a message back from the guy saying thanks >for the news and he'd at least bring it to the attention of Ryko's A&R. I might mention it to them. Gary is due for some decent exposure in the USA. As for the Numa reissues, a boxed set would be very nice, especially if it was comprehensive (the 3 albums + a disc of b-sides or 3 discs filled with b-sides). The existance of different mixes complicates matters. Could Numa/whoever justify putting two mixes of two albums in a box? I think not even though it would be a dream for fans. I'll raise the issue with Beryl next time. Personally I think they should release Berserker on it's own with the extended mixes, then a boxed set with the vinyl version of Berserker plus b-sides, extended version of The Fury plus b-sides and Strange Charm plus b-sides. That way, Numa would get sales from all fans as all discs in the boxed set CDs would have new material and those who already have Berserker, The Fury or Strange Charm CDs would not need to duplicate and purchases. But that is a consumer's (mine) perspective not the label's and doesn't help those who want the regular version of The Fury on CD. What would others like to see in a Numa boxed set if it were to be released? Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 11:19:05 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: The Critic To: numan@cs.uwp.edu After reading Joe Lindstrom's posting from last week, I found myself pretty much in agreement with him minus just a few points mentioned below: -The impact of criticism: It is indeed possible that I am not aware of the impact my criticism of the 1987-1993 period is having on others. Having said that, a few things should be kept in mind. I'm not criticizing others on this list, I'm criticizing Numan himself. People here shouldn't feel upset in that regard. What one likes or doesn't like, especially when it comes to music, is terribly subjective. I understand this subjectivity when others disagree with my views on a particular song or album. Thus, I'm not offended or upset with the disagreement. I only feel a need to apologize for my comment's impact when they have be misconstrued due to my inability to convey my thoughts properly. If it matters, I have written to Beryl and Numan telling them both of my unhappiness with the 1987-1993 period, so anything I've said here has also been said "officially" to the source. Joe talked about the disagreements in taste causing some to single others out. I didn't know this was happening. If it is, that's a bit silly. I have disagreed with others here in the past, but I don't single them out because of that. When the matter is one of taste and subjectivity, singling a person out for these reasons would be shortsighted. When the disagreement is one more of principle or ethics, I'm just inclined to not associate with that person again. Joe mentioned that Gary's not out to make everbody happy. True, and I'm not out to make Gary happy either. Numan remains my favourite artist of all time, but I will continue to level criticism where I feel it is appropriate. If my view of a particular album or single is negative, and most disagree, fine, we have a subjective difference of opinion, that's all. ----- To the list of covers that I know of: Kool G Rap & DJ Polo: "Cars" This is less of a cover than a sampling of the original "Cars" underneath a rap beat and lyrics. Pretty bad. Generator: Two covers of "Are 'Friends' Electric?" on the CD single, with Numan contributing to the two spoken parts. Again, pretty bad. I have never heard of the _Big Hair_ cover. Actually, I've never heard of _Big Hair_ either. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Thanks!! Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 95 00:55:51 From: jon.lester@index.com Subject: Tubeway Army singles for sale To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have two Tubeway Army singles available: "That's Too Bad"/"Oh! Didn't I Say" Original BB 1978 pressing $20 Beggars Backfire double reissue of the above and "Bombers"/"O.D. Receiver"/"Blue Eyes" packaged in a gatefold cover, pressed in 1979. $20 Figure $3 for priority mail; same postage if you buy them both at the same time. There is more Numan that I will announce later as I'm actually coming into an excess of the older stuff. Write to [jon.lester@index.com]. Thanks! -Jon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 11:09:29 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: VERSION/EDIT/MIX - counter-response To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Before I launch in to this I thought I would just point out that I'm known among my friends for my Mr. Spock-like Logic. If you read enough of my e-mails you'll notice this. I mention this because it pertains to my reasoning behind my suggestions regarding using VERSION/EDIT/MIX. Because my opinions are usually well-formed (i.e. a lot of thought goes into pro's and con's before arriving at a decision), when defending an opinion I can go into quite extraordinary length the reasons behind it ("you're joking" I hear you say :-) ). When I suggest something for the FIRST time I try to keep it short and sweet, hoping people will see the logic. However, if people miss the point, I can then unleash the "full reportoire" of reasons. An IMPORTANT POINT I would like to make is that with my e-mail comments (see elsewhere), that was something I was USED to using, and I can give reasons as to why I will continue to use it. In THIS case, it is NOT something I am used to using - in fact just the opposite. My suggestions were purely logic-driven. When I was writing it I had to keep fighting the desire to refer to the "album VERSION", because that is what I AM used to. - I was NOT trying to set some "arcane rules" for people to follow, merely suggesting that we could make ourselves CLEARER when writing. We are using a purely VISUAL medium (MOST of us don't have Multi-media), to discuss a purely AURAL medium. (ANYONE who agrees with my original idea FEEL FREE to jump into the fray at any point!). - As stated previously, I floated this idea because of the "BESERKER mix vs. ISOLATE mix" debate. I didn't have ISOLATE (in fact I had never heard of it 'til then) and not only did I want to know the ANSWER, I wanted to know the QUESTION as well. Were they talking about the relative loudness,or the length,or is it a whole NEW version? It's like in "The Hitch-Hikers Guide To The Galaxy" - "Well, if THAT'S the ANSWER to Life,The Universe, and Everything - Then what's the QUESTION?". - EDIT does NOT mean shorter. The dictionary says edit means "to revise", with no implication of lengthening or shortening, just alteration. In fact "edit" is usually used with 12" songs. - I know record companies don't follow this rule, but they don't even have ONE name for one version. This is an effect of CD-singles where there are multiple versions of the same song. They give a name to EVERY track - even the original. Note the '93 CARS CD. The original has been "named" CLASSIC. One day soon someone will say "Hey! this CARS (CLASSIC). Is that the same as CARS?". It's fine to refer to a song by it's given name - but that still doesn't address the issue of what's the same/different about it (see my second point - there we have 3 different edits - but ALL have the same name). - I NOW have ISOLATE, and I know that it's the "12" version". If I were to say to someone "It's the same MIX as BERSERKER" and didn't say what I meant by MIX, then they still wouldn't REALLY know the answer. For it IS the same MIX (as defined), but a different EDIT (as defined). And finally, it's the same VERSION (as in CARS '93 CD has different VERSIONS AND different EDITS of same versions. e.g. SPRINT/ENDURANCE). To recap my definitions: MIX - "loudness" of voice vs. instruments,etc. EDIT - length of song. e.g. 7" or 12". VERSION - a whole NEW approach. People don't HAVE to follow this, but if they ask about a "mix" they need to make themselves clear if they want an accurate answer (I would assume that they meant it as defined - by me AND the dictionary!). DONALD PEDDER. never gonna "slide out of SYDNEY and...never go back" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:15:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Schumann Subject: WWW To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Yes! I have a home page for Gary Numan. It's currently available at http://oingomth.uwc.edu/~whizkid/numan/ It is undrgoing HEAVY modification at this point. I'll re-post here when the new stuff is almost in place. If you'd like to check it out and comment, please do! Chris ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************