Date: Tue, 30 May 95 16:30:06 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #133 Gary Numan Digest Tue, 30 May 95 Volume 1 : Issue 133 Today's Topics: ...OF SKIN & SALIVA homepage Another cover Answers to last week's questions Availability and Needs Babylon track listings, analysis Derek reponds to Donald's letter critique (again) Gary Numan Digest V1 #132 Garys Gay Lyrics / iceman / replicas / next gigs Hello :-) Hello Numan Followers Hi, its Tony! INTRODUCTION - GAVIN MOFFAT John Foxx Marilyn Manson Mr. Webb my final word Numan CDs and PDO disc bronzing objective ratings of albums/Definitive poll Personal Reflections sound quality on videos Still haven't heard Sacrifice! The Strangest Living Boy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 17:15:44 -0400 From: fishtank@iac.net (War-N Harrison) Subject: ...OF SKIN & SALIVA homepage To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings, Just a little tidbit: ...OF SKIN & SALIVA now has a web location at: http://www.iac.net/~fishtank ENJOY!! CHEERIO......... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Loopy.....but oh so chic, ~ ~ ~ ~ War-N (...OF SKIN & SALIVA)~ ~ ~ ~ fishtank@iac.net ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...OF SKIN & SALIVA-'SAHUL' OUT NOW ON COP Int'l (shameless self promotion is very hip you know!) ------------------------------------------------- OSAS homepage http://www.iac.net/~fishtank ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 95 12:32:49 MET From: Roock.Nilo.de@uniface.nl Subject: To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi, Gary's music has evolved quit a lot over the years. I still get thrilled when I am listening to some of his older music like tracks on Telekon, Dance and so on. I miss the synths in his more recent albums. I never listen to Warriors, The Fury or Machine and Soul. Does one of you know, from interviews you read or other sources, why Gary changed his music so dramatically, say as from the Warriors album (Strange Charm somehow does not fit in the line, it's more like his older music)? I am just subscribed to this list but I read some e-mails in issue 132 and I saw that (as I expected) people tend to like the songs from his earlier period best. Do you agree? I find his newer songs are still great but I just wished that they were produced different. Bye, Nilo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 95 21:06:13 CST From: bbeving@subrec.mn.org (Bradley Beving) Subject: Another cover To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, after giving a friend of mine the Berserker video, he decided to do a cover of I Die:You Die with his band ALLFLESH. He's gonna debut it this Tuesday (the 23rd) at his gig, but hearring it in his bedroom it sounds pretty good. If he records it I'll let you all know... Bradley Beving bbeving@subrec.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 16:21:14 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Answers to last week's questions To: numan@cs.uwp.edu First, a big welcome to all our new subscribers. We must be hitting 150 soon surely? Last week: Stevorama asked: >1) When they come out, please tell me...are all the songs on the "Dark >Light" EP version also on the full-length double-disc? Was this the case >with the "Dream Corrosion" EP/CD? It was the case for the DC EP/CD - complete duplication. I didn't bother to get the EP as a result. Don't know yet about DL (hey, a Numan album with my initials :-) >2) To hit on a subject that has been hit on before...how does one get >NTSC copies of Numan video output? Is it really stealing royalties from >Gary if they are not available in that format from his end at all? It's >not like I have the option to buy them from Numa. And is anyone willing >to throw caution to the wind and copy theirs for me? Finding this list >and getting no access to video is like landing in Tahiti and finding that >your bags were sent to West Virginia (I used to live there, I should >know..;) )....... There are no official NTSC videos in North America other than the Berserker 1 hour video released a few years ago. In my book, it is not stealing royalties if you borrow someone's video to make a copy or you have someone make you a copy for the cost of the tape. If someone made copies then offered them at $25 each to others, that *would* be stealing IMO. Video is something we have struggled with on the list from day one. Not only is it a pain due to the need to convert PAL to NTSC but it is time consuming to dupe tapes. I guess everyone has plenty of other things to do. fishtank@iac.net (War-N Harrison) asked: > Also, does anyone know where I can get Numan T-shirts in the US? Good luck! With Gary not having a US contract and not touring I have never seen a Numan T-shirt for sale in the US. Perhaps someone could voluntter to get shiorts printed for us - a "Gary Numan Digest" t-shirt like they did on rec.music.gaffa (Kate Bush group). When the offical link with the UK Fan Club is up and running (contact has been made) people on the Digest should have access to UK tour t-shirts. Roock.Nilo.de@uniface.nl asked > As far as I know 'Berserker' and 'Strange Charm' are not yet released > on CD. Why is this so? Is someone working on trying to get them > released? Berserker saw a UK Fan Club only limited CD release in 1991. Some of us were even lucky enough to get copies after I went to the UK in 1992 and picked some up from Gary's aunt. Strange Charm was on CD at time of release (1986) but for only a short time. Berserker was released before CDs were widespread (1984) and by the time Numa started releasing albums on CD, Numa were faltering financially. It just never happened before Gary signed to IRS. IRS were supposed to reissue all Gary's Numa catalogue on CD but it never happened and Gary and IRS parted company after only 3 years. The Numa label was restarted and they have promised to rerelease all Gary's Numa albums on CD. Berserker was pressed before Gary signed a distribution contract with Pinnacle in the UK and it was not picked up for general release. Ghost and White Noise did see general release. I, with the support of many on the list, have been lobbying the Numan organization to rerelease Berserker on CD to the general public. Last time I spoke to Gary's mother they were going to look at repressing the album and with luck this time it will become a general UK release. They have promised The Fury (probably extended mixes) and Strange Charm too. It might be a while though. > 'Desire'. I haven't got it yet (Numan albums are hard to come buy in > record stores in The Netherlands, have to order them by mail here...). > Is it in the line of 'Machine+Soul'? I was rather disappointed by that > album. 'Desire' is a track from Gary's 1994 album "Sacrifice" which comes on CD in two forms - normal (cat. no NUMACD 1011) and extended mixes (cat. no. NUMACDX 1011). Both are UK only releases. Many of us were relieved to hear Gary take a huge step away from the Metal Rhythm, Outland, Machine and Soul direction. The album is dark, sombre, and gothic in style. I recommend it wholeheartedly, something I could not do with Outland or Machine and Soul. > One other question: I once lost the CD 'Metal Rhytm'. It was later > released as 'New Anger', 'Metal Rhytm' was no longer for sale. I > didn't like the mixes at all on the 'New Anger' album. Does anybody > know where I can get a copy of 'Metal Rhytm'? "Metal Rhythm" was the UK release. Mainland Europe, the USA and Japan had "New Anger" with the different track order, track selection and remixes. You would need to find a UK source for the "Metal Rhythm" version. I agree with you toally that it is superior. Gary was not pleased with what IRS did to his "Metal Rhythm" album. I think it was the first indication that Gary was not pleased with IRS. You had better try and get MR soon as I suspect Gary's IRS albums are now deleted in the UK. Michael Rush asks: >Are there plans for any UK concerts in the near future ???? Gary's next tour will be in April/May 1996. A few dates hve already been lined up. He woudl like to tour more extensively than he did on his last tour which was restricted to central and southern England. he is well aware he has fans in Scotland and Wales and would like to make the trip over to Ireland as well. ToddSquodd@aol.com commented: >Joe Lindstrom commented on the song "I Wonder" as being one of his >>favorites; I like the song a lot, too, and I wondered if anyone had >noticed >the sample around which Gary built the song. I never noticed him >credit the >original in any liner notes, but I swear it's Tears For Fears >"Shout" >rhythm track that he's using. Listen to the song when the beat >kicks and >and you'll hear it. Someone (was it you Joe?) mentioned this when Machine and Soul first came out. I agree it does sound lifted out of the TFF track. That's a question for someone to ask if they ever meet him. s.aniolowski@genie.geis.com asks: >Here's one about the Numan & dadadang single "Like a Refugee (I Won't >>Cry)": who or what is dadadang, and did Gary do any other songs with >them? Da Da Dang are apparently the same people who worked with Gary on Radio Heart. This was a one off project - a charity record for Bosnia. I still haven't heard it. Brian Hammond This was truly depressing, however, hearing Numan being reduced to selling >his talents to junk stuff like this. Of course, this was pre-Sacrifice >so perhaps he'd turn down such an offer today. Perhaps he didn't sell it and the filmakers took it without Gary's permission. I'll ask Beryl about it. >Add my vote to putting the digest on a biweekly schedule and against it >being a Newsgroup. That example of "Gary Newman" was spot on. As a >digest, we remain a forum only for those who care enough to join and >participate (even those I disagree with). Writing of Gary Newman, has anyone else noticed that on the original UK release of "Metal Rhythm" (cat. no. ILPCD-35) below the bar code on the back it says "Gary Newman Rhythm CD"? Even IRS couldn't get his name right! That's it! Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 22:21:32 -0400 From: Schl1028@aol.com Subject: Availability and Needs To: NUMAN@cs.uwp.edu Welcome Home! I have joined the list for several reasons: 1. To let Numanoids know what resources/material I have to duplicate for them. 2. To obtain originals/duplicates of what I am lacking, and 3. To discuss my senior thesis in architecture: "Welcome Home: A Museum of Gary Numan." I have all albums but "Machine and Soul" and "Sacrice," and am desparately seeking same. If you have extras, or access to originals, please let me know. Also, I am seeking originals or copies of the following: Dramatis' "For Future Reference," "Berserker" CD, "The Fury" CD, "Strange Charm" CD, "Call Out the Dogs" EP b/w "This Ship Comes Apart," "Change Your Mind" Single, and NUMA lable releases other than Gary's own. Also, I have the following videos and will dupe (where allowed by law): The Touring Principle Micro Music Berserker New Man Numan. I may have access to a CD of Metal Rhythm. And am desparately seeking an interview album ca. 1988. Please email me at SCHL1028@aol.com. We are not lovers, we are not romantics, we are here to serve you. A different face, but the words never change.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 09:55:06 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Babylon track listings, analysis To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi there, I asked Leon for details on the Babylon series. He sent me the track listing (thanks Leon) for all the planned releases and I post them here along with the source of the non-album material (pardon any mistakes please). No versions/edits/mixes are indicated for songs where there are different one's available. That's the FC's doing not Leon's. It's a fascinating set. An * indicates a new-to-CD track, # indicates new to any format. Babylon 1 Beserker (vinyl LP edit is the only one missing to date) My Dying Machine (vinyl LP edit, Italian remix missing to date) Here Am I (b-side to My Dying Machine 7" & 12") Empty Bed Empty Heart (b-side to Berserker) She Cries (b-side to My Dying Machine 12") Rumour (b-side to London Times [a Radio Heart song]) Babylon 2 Your Fascination (all versions are on CD) Call out the Dogs (all versions are on CD) We Need It (b-side to Your Fascination 7" & 12") Anthem* (b-side to Your Fascination 12") This Ship Comes Apart* (b-side to Call Out the Dogs 7" & 12") Babylon 3 Miracles (12" i.e. extended mix is not on CD yet) I Still Remember (RSPCA mix pleeaaaasse, 12" mix not on CD yet) The Fear* (b-side to Miracles 7" & 12") Puppets* (b-side to I Still Remember) Tribal# Babylon 4 This is Love (7" edit not on CD yet) I Can't Stop (7", club, picture and extended mixes not on CD) Survival* (b-side to This is Love) Faces* (b-side to I Can't Stop) Time to Die (b-side to New Thing From London Town) Mistasax 2* (b-side to Radio Heart 12") Babylon 5 New Anger (all known versions are on CD) America (all known versions are on CD) Heart (all known versions are on CD) I Don't Believe (b-side to New Anger) Children* (b-side to New Anger 12") Icehouse (b-side to Heart) Tread Careful (b-side to Heart 12" & CD5) Babylon 6 The Skin Game (all known versions are on CD) Emotion (all known versions are on CD) Dark Mountain (b-side to Skin Game) In a Glasshouse (b-side to Emotion) Hanoi (b-side to Emotion 12" & CD5) River* (b-side to All Across the Nation incl. rare CD5) Babylon 7 Machine and Soul (all known versions are on CD) A Question of Faith (all known versions are on CD) The Hauntings (b-side to Machine & Soul Part 2) Metal Beat# Whisper of Truth (b-side to A Question of Faith CD5) Play Like God (b-side to A Question of Faith CD5) Absolution (only one version - on the CD5) So that's a minimum of 11 new-to-CDs songs (including River due to its rarity) unless the singles are versions/mixes/edits that are also new-to-CD. Numan is really squeezing money out of his b-sides this way, especially with vols 5,6 & 7 having only one non-CD track on each. It appears they will only be Fan Club releases not general releases and will be on his Salvation Records label not Numa. That means you'll either have to go through Leon or wait for the Digest's UK Fan Club connection to be up and running (which will hopefully be soon). Thanks to Leon for kindly offering to acquire these for Digest subscribers. The presence of IRS material indicates relations between IRS and Gary have warmed up, perhaps even to the point of him having control over his IRS catalogue or at least permission to use it. Might we see The Unborn soundtrack someday? Track selection is not fully comprehensive, nor is it fully chronological but it's better than nothing. The Radio Heart b-sides are songs which Gary wrote and produced himself without Radio Heart. Why they are scattered over three diffrent volumes I do not know. What's missing (i.e tracks still not avilable on CD after this gets released)? No Shelter (perhaps it will be part of This Ship Comes Apart on vol 2?) Fear (if they use the long 12" version, the short 7" would not be missed) New Thing From London Town (7" and 12" edit - not sure why it's not here) Radio Heart material (for which he does not own the rights) Are 'Friends' Electric (Renegade Soundwave 1991 Remix, vocal + intrumental) My World Storm (12" and instrumental) Shame (co-written by Nick Beggs, perhaps has something to do with it) Without indications which versions of the singles are included it is not possible to say what versions might be missing. In one of last year's newsletters, Gary indicated they might put all known versions of the singles on each disc. I hope they do that where appropriate (Berserker, Fury, Strange Charm, M&S and Sacrifice tracks). I suspect it won't happen and the versions used will be the 7" or 12" despite there being room for all. This is something I hope to clarify when I speak to Beryl next. This series probably eliminates any chance the b-sides will be added as bonus tracks to any rerelease of Berserker, The Fury, and Strange Charm CDs. Lots to chew on indeed. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 10:53:13 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Derek reponds to Donald's letter critique (again) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Two weeks ago, Donald Pedder wrote: > O.K. That deals with what JOE said, Now onto DEREK - > - I made A comment about "Why kick a dog when he's down?" to which DEREK >replied that GARY'S NOT down. He's not down about what he's JUST DONE, but >(if these are true reports) he IS down about what has gone just before. >I'll make an analogy to illustrate. > Let's say a couple of years ago YOU did something stupid (I'm NOT >saying what >GARY did is stupid - this is an analogy). Let's say it caused a lot of people a >lot of trouble. You NOW KNOW that it was wrong and you deeply regret it. WOULD >YOU REALLY want someone reminding you about it?? I'd Probably biff them on the >nose and say "Let sleeping dogs lay". When someone verbalizes about something, >which you are ALREADY upset about, then it just MAKES IT WORSE. I was engaged >a few years back, and things didn't work out. In retrospect I shoudn't have >gotten engaged in the first place - but that doesn't mean I want everybody >else telling me that. It just stirs up the pain again. Isn't this just part of life? Hopefully one learns from one's mistakes enough not to repeat them. I don't now how upset Gary is about the era under question, but I suspect he has moved on and does not dwell on it. Gary was very positive about those albums when he made them. He has changed his mind though, perhaps based on the response of fans (letters, sales etc.). Now, having ressurrected his creative talents with the latest album I don't think that Gary will be sinking into depression every time he gets criticized for anything he did in the past. He is a big boy now - he's 37 years old! And please don't think I am being insensitive to Gary. I have experienced more emotional pain in my personal life than most people could ever imagine and feel I know a lot about it. The letter was not callous or damning. I will endeavour to find out Gary's reaction to it next time I speak with Beryl. > - I ALWAYS look forward to new NUMAN, no matter what the last thing was like. I too look forward to new Numan but after Outland it was with some trepidation. I don't think it unreasonbale for that anticipation to be qualified with other emotions e.g. trepidation, joy, fear, hope, loathing, and excitement. > - I KNOW the for/against ratio (for the letter) was about 50/5, and that's >EXACTLY what I think should've been related to GARY. He can then decide "try >to keep most people happy?...keep doing what I like as long as SOMEONE still >likes it?..." etc. Again I say there should've been TWO letters - one for the >50,and one for the 5. GARY would then have "the big picture". Having said that >I STILL say it's not nice to (negatively) criticize the past. I think we are going to have to disagree. It may not be "nice" to criticize but if constructive criticism is eliminated things may only improve as a result of random chance rather than in response to feedback? I don't think I was being rude or nasty. The letter did not say "Outland sucked". As most of the cosigners are long time fans who presumeably have well thought out opinions on Gary's work, I think it was totally reasonable for us to indicate that we had been worried about the direction Gary was taking with MR/NA, Outland and M&S. I think our opinions have a much greater validity for Gary than those of the music press. And if Gary decides he wants to, say, ressurrect the Stock, Aitkin and Waterman sound in the future (shudder), I will have no hesitation whatsoever in drafting another letter saying I don't like it. No one volunteered to write a second letter. The option was always there; the UK Fan Club address is easily obtained. I did not coerce people into adding their names to the letter; 50 people voluntarily signed on. I added a cover letter indicating a few would not sign because they disagreed with the criticism. I think I covered the bases (yeesh, a Brit using an American phrase, wickets to Brits, Aussie's, New Zealander's, South African's etc.) and fairly represented the opinion of this group of fans. Everyone is free to agree or disagree. I respect that choice but for myself, I have to disagree with your position that it was not right to criticize Gary for his Outland and M&S albums. I felt no responsibility to write two letters. That is all I intend to say on this issue apart from reporting what I find out about Gary's reaction to the letter, if I can obtain that info, of course. On to more important stuff, Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 95 17:29:28 EDT From: thx1138@angus.mystery.com (Scott Abfalter) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #132 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) RE: Sacrafice I went to the store to buy the Sacrafice Extended Mix and what they had labled as the extended mix looked EXACTLY the same as the normal CD. Are there visible differences (such as the word extended anywhere on the cover?) between them? I was not about to plop down US$22 for a CD I already had, so the store is trying to order anotehr one. What's this about Dark Light? More data... Scott -- Scott Abfalter (thx1138@angus.mystery.com) Mystery Spot BBS, Royal Oak, MI --------------------------------------------?-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 08:19:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Garys Gay Lyrics / iceman / replicas / next gigs To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Yeah Zig, I guess you're right..all his sexual imagery is pretty dark and sleazy (but could be sleazier like The Need) The Iceman Comes ? I didnt spot any gay overtones on that, but its on Warriors, and its not exactly my favourite album so I dont know it too well - Ill have a listen tonight... Replicas based on a book Gary was writing...? Well, to me it's based on Burroughs material...quite blatantly!!! Michael Rush> I spoke to Garys mother the other day and there's no live stuff till March '96 Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 95 14:28:18 BST From: FORBES Ian Subject: Hello :-) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Another newcomer to the list! My name is Ian Forbes, I am studying at The Nottingham Trent University in Nottingham England. I only discoevered Gary Numan two years ago while listening to a compilation called It's Electric if I remember rightly. Well anyway I was very impressed and since then I've been slowly adding to my collection. Favourite songs are Warriors, I Wonder, Are Friends Electric and too many others to mention! I write songs for a band which at the moment only consist of three other members. We have recently made a Gary Numan style album including a few of his songs. If anyone would like to hear it they can mail me. The sound quality is laughably poor but we just don't have the resources to do better being poor, hard up students! Bye for now. Ian Forbes. (stud2afo@doc.ntu.ac.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 10:57:20 -0400 From: "George T. Richman" Subject: Hello Numan Followers To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Gary Numan is a very cool musician who at one time in my life, my friends and I got into a Gary Numan Frenzy to see who could obtain more Numan albums. I first got into Numan when he was on SNL, and Cedric Sharply would reach over to crash his cymbals during CARS- it freaked me out enough to buy Pleasure Priciple, I was in 7th grade. During High School, my friends and I bought every Numan item we could get our hands on. When my friend Phil Hamm came back from London with some great Imports, I had an autographed Numan 45 that I picked up and shoved it into his face.. he was impressed. I have all of the colored vinyl (yellow, red and blue) from the outakes of various albums, including Fadeout 1930 and others- More later! George Richman http://www.websys.com/ george@websys.com NUMAN RULES ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 95 12:13:55 EDT From: Tony Boies Subject: Hi, its Tony! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello, my name is Tony R. Boies. I was recently added to the Numan Digest mailing list. I think it is a wonderful way to exchange information and I'm grateful to the people who have put it together. I'd like to comment on some entries I have read, in relation to a conclusion I've come to over the years: that in and of himself, it will be impossible for Gary to re-attain the status he held in the late 70's and early 80's, due to one simple fact: his voice. Gary's voice worked well during the late 70's quirky synth pop movement that included DEVO, the Cars (somewhat), Ultravox, Human League, etc. Today, however, people want to hear someone singing smoothly (Michael Jackson, Sting, Phil Collins, Madonna) or gutteral (Eddie Veddar, Axl Rose, the late Kurt Cobain). "Machine and Soul" isn't my favorite style of music, but I readily acknowledge the craftmanship that went into the arrangements. If it had been put out by the Pet Shop Boys, it probably would have went to #1 in the charts. What would really help Gary's career is if all these bands who have done covers of his songs (Smashing Pumpkins, Marilyn Manson, Dangerous Toys, Information Society, etc.) were approached by a label like Cleopatra about doing a tribute album. A lot of people would buy it to hear their favorite band, and thus get exposed to Gary's music. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. Some many other artists have had tribute albums already, like Nick Drake, Syd Barrett, Donovan, etc. whose commerical success have never approached what Gary has accomplished. I would like to hear other people's opinions about this. Am I the only person who feels this way? Thanks for reading, Tony tboies@leo.vsla.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 19:49:57 +0000 From: spmoo@global.co.za (gavin moffat) Subject: INTRODUCTION - GAVIN MOFFAT To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello there!! It's great to find a discussion and info forum for and of Gary Numan - In my wildest dreams I never thought that such a thing would exist!! I'm Gavin Moffat, a 25 year old South African. I've been listening to Gary Numan since 1981/2 and missed all the intial excitement of his success. I only came to appreciate his soul and music after his initial success. I appreciate many forms of music and interpret them for what they are. Among my favourite artists in my collection are David Sylvian/Japan, Tangerine Dream, Brian Eno, Fadgadget, Adam Ant, Megadeth, Metallica, Faith No More and a couple of others. Unfortunately I was never born with the talent to write or compose music, nor to play any particuar instrument. I do however write occasional ramblings which may be interpreted as either poetry or lyrics for songs yet to be written. It's difficult to pinpoint specific tracks that I appreciate most, but my favourite album is Strange Charm and my favourite tracks include Jo The Waiter, My Breathing and My Time to Die? I look forward to hearing more on Gary Numan. Yours sincerely GAVIN MOFFAT "these are words just for you only words but it's all i can do" Love Isolation - '92 spmoo@global.co.za ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 04:01:23 -0700 From: real-one@ix.netcom.com (John Carramao) Subject: John Foxx To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Dear numan@cs.usp.edu: I was wandering through the net and happened accross a music review web page and discovered that John Foxx has resurfaced as of last year and has formed a band called "Nation 12". There is a single by Nation 12, I believe it was called "Remember", Unfortu- nately at the moment I can't remember the name of the single, I think that is correct. Anyways I have yet to locate anything by Nation 12 at any of the record stores I've visited. If anyone reading this knows anything further about Nation 12 or John Foxx, please E-Mail me I'd love to hear what Nation 12 sounds like. It's great to hear that John Foxx is still out there somewhere. Speaking of John Foxx, Was it he who did the remixes of "Cars" back in 1987? The credits for the "Cars" remixes refer to: "Zues B. Held" which is a ghost name that John Foxx uses, I checked the credits for Foxx's Golden Section L.P. and it's got the name Zues B. Held in practically all of the songs on that L.P. I've never heard mention of John Foxx as the remixer of "Cars" back in 1987, but it would be great if that indeed was him, does anyone out there in Numaland know the answer? I also speculate that Foxx's song "The Man Who Dies Every Day" may have inspired "Every Day I Die", I'd love to know for sure though. Also, If there are any Numan fans out there in computerland who are on an internet carrier that provides an IRC channel, may I Rec- commend forming an IRC channel for Gary Numan fans to chat w/ each other, the obvious name for the channel could be -#Numan-, whenever you're on IRC just type in : #Numan and just wait and see if anyone shows up, I usually am there whenever I'm on IRC just in case any other Gary Numan fans show up, but so far I haven't run into to any body there, E-Mail me w/ your suggestions, comments or ideas on how to make #Numan a successful IRC channel where Gary Numan fans can communicate with eachother live, it can happen. Take care everybody. Sincerely, Real-One@ix.netcom.com Room 8, top floor, I've seen this man before ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 10:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: ULBRICHT <98647169@wsunix.wsu.edu> Subject: Marilyn Manson To: numan@cs.uwp.edu To ToddSquodd > They are an interesting band A friend and I saw them in Seattle with NIN/Trent Reznor. Perhaps I am not up to speed on my Numan covers, but I did NOT hear them do any covers (their outrageous 'antics' on stage were amusing at first, but afterwards just simply boring!), and if I was Gary, I would NOT want them to do any of my material. I hold Gary to an 'ideal;' he is an artist with taste and style. Marilyn Manson is NOT!!!!! Footnote 1: [It's Monday morning, I've been up since 5, so I'm a little grumpy] > Trent Reznor's production is not as obvious on that song as it is on the rest > of the CD5. However, Trent Reznor, is disgusting and tasteless in a stylish manner. I, being the prudish American (all anti-Americans, this is your cue....), don't usually care for something so blatant as 'Closer,' etc. But, had it been done by any other artist (notice the use of the word 'artist'), I would have been amused at the publicity stunt. HOWEVER, I have liked NIN for about 6 years now, and Trent Reznor can take an artist's work and interpret it in a way that is unusual and stimulating (not necessarily SEXUAL). Footnote 2: [I have a bisexual friend who is EXTREMELY interested in Trent. He finds Trent to be somewhat of a sexual god. Once again, sleep deprivation can do wonders to one's thought patterns!] So, this little speil has nothing to do with GN, other than he and his management should be more careful to whom they grant 'cover' privledges to! Footnote 3: [My real gripe is that tasteless covers can make a bad name for an artist. Case in point. Trent Reznor did a cover of Joy Division's 'Dead Souls' on the Crow soundtrack. --> Overheard between two 'Grunge Bunnies' in a Musicland playing the recently released Joy Division compilation, "I REALLY hate when people do BAD covers!" (Referring to Joy Division's 'bad cover' of NIN's Dead Souls) Ignorance can be bliss, I suppose....] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 17:38:10 +0000 From: "iwisman" Subject: Mr. Webb To: CChate@aol.com The address for Aron's Records is: 1150 N. Highland Ave. Los Angeles, CA 90038 213-469-4700 Mon-Thurs 10am - 10pm Fri & Sat. 10am - Midnight Sunday 11am - 8pm Hope this helps you out, some of the larger houses ie. Wherehouse and Best Buy are carrying some of the collections, that's ok for the average person, but don't they know the Fans want the latest and greatest. Another thing, is when I watch MTV or see some 80's collection, its always CARS, I love CARS all versions (that another story) but why can't they play something else like "Conversation" or "M.E." Although, one time I did see "We Take Mystery (to Bed)" on MTV years ago, only once. Aron's will order an album for you too. If it's in print, they have used records to. I am Cc: the Numan Digest for all interested. It's all lost to me now like tears in the rain.. Rudy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 12:52:11 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: my final word To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello again. I am posting again on "non-NUMAN" matters for the following reasons : - the "email noise" topic relates to our NEWSGROUP discussion - views have been attributed to me that I DON'T hold. Firstly to SCOTT - I'm SORRY that you are being subjected to this email stuff when you don't care. If you read on you will see that I never intended to start this debate (just the opposite in fact). In my defence I would just like to say that any non-NUMAN postings of mine (which BTW outnumber my NUMAN postings)have SAID so at the beginning (so that you may "skip it" if you want). the POINT here is that this sort of thing is INEVITABLE. Even MORE so if we go to a NEWSGROUP. I read the 49ERS Newsgroup, and what started as a DALLAS/SF rivalry (you can't keep "the enemy" out of a Newsgroup) has turned into a MAJOR TEXAS v. CALIFORNIA slanging match. naturally some have said "this IS NOT about football - go to email", to which others have said "you don't HAVE TO read our postings". Apart from the "email" exchange, we have also had politics come up in this group recently. to make a point as to WHY my non-NUMAN emails were in the digest I would like to make an analogy (another one). Let's say 2 people are in a car going somewhere (to a GN concert perhaps?). There's a car crash by the side of the road. the passenger says "Stop! they need help", to which the driver says "We're in this car because we're GOING to a CONCERT - we're NOT HERE to stop and help people who are STUCK!". with my non-NUMAN emails - I am like the passenger. I SEE that people are having DIFFICULTY, and so I post some helpful advice. People who don't NEED help don't HAVE to read it. And IF you're going to say that they can call a "help desk" or whatever, then you haven't had much experience in these matters. Help-Desk people are usually not helpful due to lack of experience (experienced people are in WELL PAID jobs - like I used to be. And I'm at UNI so I can get an EVEN BETTER job). As ADMIRABLE as it is to say "Let's stick to NUMAN" - you just CAN'T avoid side-issues coming up. To illustrate - we all know about GARY'S interest in flying. I am too. If a discussion started here about flying in general (as opposed to GARY'S flying) do you say that it "doesn't belong here"? CLEARLY there is no Black and White (Blue and White?) situation here. Having said that - that was NOT the intention of my original email remarks. read on. The following views have been attributed to me incorrectly : - that there should only be "positive posts" in the digest. NOT TRUE. What I SAID was that (I feel) we shouldn't relate NEGATIVE criticisms DIRECTLY to GARY (more later) - it was said "why was email brought up". Well, anyone who cares to read back to my original post (#129) will SEE that in fact I was trying to AVOID (unsuccessfully) debate.I merely MENTIONED that it was a COURTESY to use capitals for names - and that they are also used for emphasis. I was just saying that this is what I am USED TO - and in an attempt to head off any "flames" regarding my postings, I pointed out that this convention is from "the outside world", and thus pre-dates the WEB. But,having been "attacked" I naturally had to defend my position. (in fact the aforementioned Newsgroup has also recently had an email debate - probably MOST groups have,simply because it's HARD to understand what someone is trying to say if they're losing half-sentences here and there. it happened in the digest last week). - I DON'T think a "computer person" would confuse the use of asterisks for emaphasis as a computer command - I said a non-computer person, on seeing a computer related email, would wonder why these people were "emphasising full- stops". I was JUST making the point that these conventions are NOT computer related (as had been suggested). Just the opposite. I suspect these conventions were started in order to distance "surfers" from the computer establishment. - "Mr. Hammond" said that quotation marks are used for singles.I NEVER said otherwise.In fact that is exactly what I WAS saying (seeing as how Song-TITLES and Movie-TITLES are QUOTES). - again - if people care to read my original posting re:EDIT/MIX/VERSION, the WHOLE idea was to get people to make themselves CLEAR (regardless of whether they followed my suggestion or not!). another point: - re: "the letter" (again) - If I had known "Mr. Hammond" was going to be pendantic I would've done some soul-searhing for a "career" mistake instead of a personal one (which naturally came to mind). The FACT is - a mistake, is a mistake, is a mistake. Doesn't matter if it's personal,career-wise, or whatever People DO DOT like to be told/reminded they have made a mistake. As I said "Let sleeping Dogs lay/Don't kick a dog when he's down". MOTTO of all this: READ and RE-READ carefully before responding to make sure you've UNDERSTOOD properly. END OF DISCUSSION, and as I said 2 weeks ago - Let's talk NUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" P.S. I am not opposed to a Newsgroup AS WELL AS the digest, I am only opposed to the digest BECOMING a Newsgroup. In fact, a Newsgroup would probably give GARY more (much needed) exposure. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:25:30 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Numan CDs and PDO disc bronzing To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Fellow CD collectors, I have been in correspondence with PDO UK Ltd (Philips Dupont Optical) concerning some CDs of theirs which undergo a degradation process referred to on the net as "bronzing". This renders the CDs unplayable in the latter stages of decay. It appears that some Numan discs are susceptible. PDO UK in 1990-1992 used silver instead of aluminium on some pressing runs. Some of these discs are now beginning to exhibit this problem, probably due to oxidation of the silver. One has to be cautious about detecting this process though as PDO UK discs are ordinarily a yellow gold colour on the label side. Don't mistake this normal appearance of PDO UK discs with the bronzing phenomenon. Some albums have had several pressing runs with different manufacturers so make sure the discs are PDO UK. Numan's PDO UK made discs are not in this group though. PDO discs are identifiable by having the pale gold colour label side and/or having" Made in UK by PDO" written on the inner rim of the CD. Bronzing evidences itself as a darkening of the discs outer and inner edges with a deep orange colour (bronze) that slowly (over months or years) extends across the disc. It appears only on the label side. When it first starts to happen it may not be obvious but as it gets worse it becomes quite apparent. It may be difficult to detect on discs with fully painted label sides but you can still see some of the label side beyond the paint. None of Gary's discs are fully p[ainted though. The discs in question are: Gary Numan - "Isolate" NUMACD 1008 Gary Numan - "Ghost" NUMACD 1007 I sent PDO a list of my PDO discs and these were the only Numan items they indicated might be of concern. None of my copies are exhibiting bronzing yet, although Al Crawford told me his Isolate was. Apparently the Emotion, Skin Game and Machine and Soul CD singles are not suspect even though they are made by PDO UK. If you suspect any of your PDO UK CDs are undergoing this process you can exchange them directly. Send the discs to PDO at: Helpline PDO Discs Ltd UK Philips Road Blackburn Lancashire BB1 5RZ UK Send only the discs without the jewel cases or booklets etc. Package them well between cardboard pieces and in bubble wrap and put them in a padded mailer. Add a note to say you suspect your discs are bronzing and would appreciate replacements if thy are indeed bronzing. Send them airmail as surace takes 6 to 8 weeks. Depending on whether they have replacements in stock or not, you should get new discs back in 2 to 6 weeks. Other UK titles that are suspected that might be of interest to fellow synthpop lovers include: China Crisis - Flaunt the Imperfection Blancmange - Heaven Knows - collection League Unlimited Orchestra - Love and Dancing Mike Oldfield - Crises Soft Cell - The Art of Falling Apart Remember to make sure they are the UK editions made by PDO. You'd look pretty silly sending discs made by someone other than PDO UK to them for replacement. If you have any specific questions email me. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 12:51:26 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: objective ratings of albums/Definitive poll To: numan@cs.uwp.edu "Not Another POLL!" I hear you say. you're RIGHT. this is not ANOTHER poll - this is THE poll. A number of polls have been held in this group - they have generally been a "top 20", and at least one (if not more) made no distinction between a No.1 vote, and a No. 20 vote i.e. they BOTH only garnered ONE vote. this is PROBABLY because the "tallying" was done by hand. I can WRITE a program to do the tallying for me, and SO....... I would like to (as far as possible) get people to do a top ? (where ? is the TOTAL no. of songs GARY has done - I haven't added it up yet!). DON'T PANIC! you can STILL opt to only do a top 20. I shall elucidate. - songs will be ranked. the "bottom" song will get one point, the top song will get ? points (must be close to 200 I guess). - if someone does a top 20, then the top song will get maximum points, while the songs that aren't ranked (i.e. 21+) will be given an "average" ranking. - I will be providing a "voting form". you don't have to type in 200 songs - just place numbers in the appropriate place. - this will run AT LEAST 3 months - probably closer to 4 or 5. this allows people the time to rank songs "in chunks" over a period of time (you wouldn't want to rank 200 songs at once - and I haven't even written the program or the voting form yet). I am mentioning it NOW so that people can get their "thinking caps" on while I do the preparation. Since a program is doing all the hard work, I can do the following nifty things : - RANK Albums. I can add the the total points for songs from an album, divide by the number of songs on the album, and produce a "rating" for it. this rating is OBJECTIVE. i.e. it is based purely on content. track ordering can have an influence on how much you like an album. e.g. DANCE has a "quiet" side 1, and a "louder" side 2. whereas TELEKON starts "pumped up", lets up for a while, picks up the pace again, and eases back again. ALSO some albums (due to the timing of their release) often have EMOTIONAL attachments to what was happening in your life at the time. These 2 things are fairly intangible, and difficult to "rate", and as such the ratings this method produces are purely "which album has the overall best quality of songs on it?" - RANK Periods. As above, but Album tracks + associated non-album tracks. e.g. "We are glass" will contribute to a TELEKON period rating. - with the above two points, this can obviously ONLY be done if people have taken the time to rank EVERYTHING. i.e. people who post top 20's will have their vote contribute to the SONG poll, but NOT to the ALBUM/PERIOD poll. I would like some INITIAL FEEDBACK. Obviously this represents a considerable time investment, on both yours and my behalf (which I think is worth it), so I would like to know HOW MANY people would actually be prepared to go "the whole hog". If this is in single digits then it's not really worth the time. I would HOPE to get at least 20 responses (30+ even better). ALSO would like to get people's thoughts on what to include. I don't think we should include LIVE albums (this is a poll about SONGS, not different renditions), but I'm not so sure about where to draw the line on CLEARLY different versions. e.g. "Moral" and "Metal" clearly have to be treated as seperate, but what about "Cars" Classic/Motorway/'93. I don't think we should include extended edits - I think we COULD have a separate poll on that later. i.e. which EXTENDED song has IMPROVED the most on the original. As a final remark to those who think that this task could be a bit daunting, rank the tracks on a SPECIFIC album first. then do another,etc. OBVIOUSLY you know what your first few faves are, but when you get down the the "middle" of the list you already have the albums ranked, so your NEXT choice is out of 14/15 songs (do we count THE PLAN seperately?), not 100 songs (and quite often you'll have a "bunching" effect where you have a number of songs in a row from the same album(s), I would be SURPRISED to see 15 songs in a row from 15 different albums). DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 15:30:13 +0000 From: "iwisman" Subject: Personal Reflections To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings: Whenever things turned to shit in my life Gary Numan always had a song to fit the occasion. I don't know if any of you ever experienced this. His songs always had some special meaning to me. Songs like "Heart," "Whispers," "God Only Knows," "Love is like Clock Law" and "This is Love" helped get me through divorce, that was 1990. Today Gary is really getting back into the God thing. as a part time philospher, I find is atheistic lyrics refreshing in this time of political correctness. In "Voix" he says "I don't like God" and he goes on to perhaps a Nietzche viewpoint in "This Wreckage" "And what if Gods dead" is Gary the new Zarathustra? Sacrifice is a good example of his views on Religion. Songs like "A Question of Faith" hit home. "Don't Pray for My Soul" put those would be proselytizers in their place. Of course I could be all wet. All for Now. "I was a passion that past her spare time" Rudy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 12:52:40 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: sound quality on videos To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have hassles with the Hi-Fi soundtrack on a number of my NUMAN videos, and I wanted to find out if others have this problem as well. - "Berserker" - the sound levels are pumped way up, and this often causes distortion in the sound. - "New Man Numan"/"Shadow Man" - the Hi-Fi soundtrack keeps "dropping out" to leave me with just the "normal" soundtrack, and then comes back again. There is also invariably static when this happens. In all cases, the normal soundtrack is O.K. all the way through (although not NEARLY as enjoyable of course). When this first happened, I went back to the (import) shop. I was told it was more trouble than it was worth - due to having to ship the tape back, and get another one, and then it might still be another "dud". If anyone can get a GOOD copy of these tapes, I'd LOVE to hear from you. I'd also like to get an idea of how widespread this problem is. DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 18:10:35 -0700 From: cruiser@islandnet.com (Human Sack Of Rice) Subject: Still haven't heard Sacrifice! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Is there anyone on this list who's also in Canada and can easily obtain an extra CD copy of Sacrifice? Just let me know how much and your address and the money'll be on the way. Cruiser ------------------------------ Date: 24 May 95 14:01:55 EDT From: Colin Edwards <100025.463@compuserve.com> Subject: The Strangest Living Boy To: Numan digest My name is Colin Edwards, I am 34 years old, and I am a 'freelance' computer analyst/programmer. I live in Worthing on the South Coast of England, near Brighton, married with 2 children. I have been a Numan fan since 1979, a Fan Club member since then also, number 794, and along with a small group of friends and colleagues continue to maintain the Numan 'existence' as much as possible. Other friends and colleagues think we are 'sad', so we tend to adopt this tag, can't beat a bit of self-oppression!, but don't give a damn anyway. I hopefully have most Numan recordings in one form or other, including at last obtaining the 'Blue' Album, many years after missing the opportunity of buying it brand new, having chosen a Simple Minds album instead. I have also seen Numan live on every headline tour, probably well over 40 concerts by now, and have already planned/ordered tickets for 3 shows in April 96. I must agree that Sacrifice is the best thing produced for some time, although unlike the other correspondence I have read, would not be too critical of other recent stuff. Yes Gary could have continued to produce material like Cars and AFE, and even though albums such as Dance, Strange Charm and Machine and Soul cannot quite be viewed as perfect, they are all part of the Numan 'thing'. Often the actual content of each album is not that important in my opinion, as by far the best way to enjoy Numan is seeing him live (sorry all those of you in the States who are deprived of this ), where the old classics and the new material are displayed side by side. Particularly recently as Numan has revisited some of the older stuff, personal favourite Noise Noise appeared in 1993, only to be superceded by brilliant live versions of I Dream of Wires and Everyday I Die. I would also be interested in knowledge of the apparent availability of Numan material via the World Wide (Gary) Webb!! Personal correspondence would be most welcome, and if any other UK based Numanoids want to try and co-ordinate meeting up during next years tour then I would be interested. I intend going to Guildford, Southampton and Hammersmith. Any news regarding Nash the Slash would also be of interest to me!!! Colin. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************