Date: Sun, 25 Jun 95 04:00:04 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #137 Gary Numan Digest Sun, 25 Jun 95 Volume 1 : Issue 137 Today's Topics: "The Secret" "We have a Technical"; CAPITALS (1) Gary Numan live '96 .. require more info. please. (2) Books A bit more Nash A Conversation with Tony Webb a coupla things... Babylon bronzing redux Copyright (again) dark light Dark Light 2CD set for sale Dark Light Dissection Digest Format Gary and IRS, what kind of problems? Gary Numan Digest V1 #136 (2 msgs) Greetings, Me I connect to you Intro Introduction Living Ornaments/Berserker CDs - not yet NAGNFC Update noise noise Not really Gary-- FM NUMAN COVERS Numania II Numan vinyl for sale Radio Heart domestics Stuff For Sale (Thanx Lilly!!) t-shirts Totally Off Topic Tour info?!? Various Thoughts when GARY started smiling Who is FM you ask... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 12:19:40 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: "The Secret" To: numan@cs.uwp.edu O.K. For those who don't know, the name of the guy who "sounds like BOWIE" on "The Secret" is ZAINE GRIFF. I don't know ANYTHING else about him apart from this. It's actually a bit odd in a funny way - despite singing the chorus of this song, he is credited with "Backing Vocals"! For the completists (who don't know this already) the extended edit of this song is on ISOLATE. As far as I know this isn't available ANYWHERE else (except maybe the fan-club BERSERKER CD if you're one of those lucky-ducks). There's not a LOT added to it - basically just the breaks between verses has been increased, giving more of that funky-bass improv. (I know a lot of you enjoy this type of bass - like I do), and more of that growly bass synth. riff. Like I said it's not a lot - but it's a nice surprise the first time you hear it. Of course, this song is EVEN BETTER on CD than vinyl/tape - the background synth. chords come to the fore on CD....feel the power! DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 14:20:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Mesplay Subject: "We have a Technical"; CAPITALS To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Gentle Rosencrantz: "We have a Technical" appears in at least two places that I know of (because I have them sitting here in front of me): One is a vinyl 12" EP (?) called "Gary Numan Tubeway Army 1978 Volume Two 1979." It's on red vinyl -- VERY pretty! -- and the songs are "Fadeout 1930," "The Crazies," and "Only a Downstat" on Side A; "We have a Technical" is on Side B. I also have Volume Three on blue vinyl, with "The Monday Troop," "Crime of Passion," and "The Life Machine" on Side A and "A Game Called Echo," "Random," and "Oceans" on Side B. Does anybody know what was considered Volume One? You can also find "W.H.A.T." on a Beggars Banquet cassette called "Gary Numan Tubeway Army 1978 1979." The tracks are: That's Too Bad Random Oh! Didn't I Say The Crazies The Monday Troop Only a Downstat Bombers We have a Technical O.D. Receiver Do you need the Service? Blue Eyes A Game Called Echo Crime of Passion Oceans Fadeout 1930 The Life Machine You would not believe how youthful Gary looks on these covers. Was he really that young once? Were *any* of us? Good luck finding this stuff, Rosencrantz. If you come up empty, e-mail me and maybe we can work something out. Finally, I have to agree with Scorbie about Donald Pedder's use of CAPITALS. Donald, I too find that it makes your posts very difficult to read. I get enough eyestrain headaches at work (I also work in a computer center, Donald), so I tend to skip over your messages. Nothing personal, as I would really like to see what you have to say. Maybe you could curtail the caps a little bit. -- Lisa ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jun 95 11:33:07 EDT From: Michael Rush Subject: (1) Gary Numan live '96 .. require more info. please. (2) Books To: numan Hi fellow Numanoids Two things : (1) Gary Numan live '96 .. require more info. Derek L/Andy Mc thanks for the info. in Gary Numan Digest V1 #133. In relation to :- My Q : Are there plans for any UK concerts in the near future ???? Derek's Reply : Gary's next tour will be in April/May 1996. A few dates hve already been lined up. He woudl like to tour more extensively than he did on his last tour which was restricted to central and southern England. he is well aware he has fans in Scotland and Wales and would like to make the trip over to Ireland as well. and... Andy's Reply : Michael Rush> I spoke to Garys mother the other day and there's no live stuff till March '96 Does anyone have exact dates, venues for London (or even Ireland ????) and where I could order/purchase tickets for these venues. (2) Books on Gary Numan ? Being new to the group, you may have already provided this info., but are there any books on Gary Numan (life, career, music, etc..) ? A number of years ago I bought a Beggers Banquet compliation called "Exhibition" which contained an extract from a book on Gary's music career. I was unable to find this is in any music/book shop in Ireland. Any info. on this book or any other book about GN is much appreciated. Thanks, Mike "You told me, time makes it easy, But you never told time stands still." I Still Remember (1985 - The Fury) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 09:57:47 EDT From: Richard.Paiement@crc.doc.ca (Richard V. Paiement) Subject: A bit more Nash To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) FM with Nash the Slash were scheduled to do a few shows around Ontario this month, namely St-Catherines on the 16th and Ottawa on the 23rd, but the shows have been cancelled. I have been told that they are still in the studio putting the finishing touches on their new album, the first since 1987. Let's hope they are on the same uphill climb as Gary with his Sacrifice album (musical direction-wise). Richard *************************************************************** Richard V. Paiement, P.Eng. Internet: Research Engineer richard.paiement@crc.doc.ca Radio Broadcast Systems Communications Research Centre Ottawa Ontario K2H 8S2 CANADA Fax: +1 613 993 9950 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:14:40 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: A Conversation with Tony Webb To: numan@cs.uwp.edu For Donald's benefit :-) THIS INCLUDES INFO ABOUT BABYLON, US RECORD DEALS, RESPONSE TO "THE LETTER" AND BERSERKER CDS Hi there, Last Tuesday (Jun 20) I spoke with Tony Webb, Gary's father and manager. We had an hour long chat covering many things. I hate to imagine what my phone bill is going to be next month :-( (donations gratefully accepted). Here's what I gleaned. NEW ALBUM Gary is hard at work on the new album & hopes to finish it by Xmas but release will not be till spring because they want to take the complete album around shopping for a contract in the USA at the US Media show in January. BALLAD ALBUM On hold indefinitely due to time contraints but they hope to put out an album of intrumental material that did not get into the Unborn Soundtrack - possibly late this year. MISSING TRACKS IN BABYLON CDs Fans wrote about missing tracks on Babylon series and some tracks have been added to later volumes (including Shame, on vol 3, no details on others). They are open to suggestions as songs may have been forgotten and we talked about the possibility of a Babylon 8 and 9 to clear everything up. Great news eh? Sounds like slimline cases for Babylon as Tony referred to "J" cards being the inserts (that is the shape of slimlne case inserts). The printer screwed up the inserts for vols 1 and 2 and so new ones are being made but they will incude the old ones as keepsakes. They already have vol 1 and 2 adn are waiting for the new inserts before they are shipped. ACCESS TO THE US MARKET Tony is considering making Numan albums etc. available from an on-line commercial organisation in the UK so that fans outside the UK could get Numan items. I told him that there was really no problem getting Gary's UK general releases overseas as many stores stock imports and there are already on-line import music dealers. I don't thunk you would reach any more people by doing so. He was amazed that my local dealer had my copy of Dark Light on the supposed UK release date of June 5. They are in touch with Alliance Records who bought out Castle Communications in the UK and also are pretty big over here, supposedly. Anyone know anything about them? They really want to make give Gary's US releases for his albums. Sales of Sacrifice were not huge, but it was received very well by fans. They want to build on that now but realize that Gary is viewed as a has been. They lack the promotional ability to get Gary's music noticed and publicized. THE LETTER (DONALD - LOOK HERE :-) Paraphrasing Tony: Tony remembered the letter and said Gary didn't mention anything specific about it. Tony didn't think it upset him as it pretty much agreed with how Gary felt. Tony said that before Sacrifice, many had been advocating to Gary that he should collaborate with others, including Tony himself who thought it would lighten the burden. Miles Copeland also had a big say while Gary was at IRS. The influences of other people were evident in Gary's IRS and M&S albums. They lacked the Numan essence that makes his work different. By shutting everyone else out, Gary has been able to do what he wants and the response of fans has been great. So I don't think any harm was done by the letter and Gary did not take it badly. And from what Gary is quoted as saying about M&S he is quite critical of it himself. BERSERKER CD NEWS (discouraging I'm afraid) They are weighing what to do with a future Berserker CD. Tony told me of one perspective that was brought to his attention and with which he sympathized. Some people paid a lot of money for their copy and would have it devalued if a general release appeared (including someone in Australia who apparently sent the GNFC #200 for a copy). This rang alarm bells in my head and I tried to persuade Tony that there is another side of the issue. I said that the described situation probably applied to a very small number of people relative to the number who would be *so* happy to see it's rerelease (although I didn't think about it at the time, what is the point here, speculative resale value or the music!). I said a general release is the only way all those who want a copy could get it. I also said if they were concerned about devaluing the FC release they could release the vinyl version on CD to make the extended CD keep it's value. I was surprised by his perspective and I hope I persuaded him that it is better to please a lot of people at the expense of few than to frustrate the many because of them. I said there were at least 60 copies that could be sold to people in this group. I expect it is many more now the list has 260 subscribers (see below if you have not signed up yet). --BLATANT PLUG-- If you have the SLIGHTEST FLICKER OF INTEREST in seeing the Gary Numan classic _Berserker_ re-released on CD, AND YOU HAVEN'T EMAILED GREG SAMSON ABOUT IT ALREADY, please send email to: punkboy@u.washington.edu with the word 'berserker' in the subject line. If you have more than a flicker of interest (e.g., might buy >1 copy), please note that in the body of the letter. --END PLUG-- I think it would be a real disservice to fans to not rerelease the Berserker CD. I will argue the issue till I am blue in the face if I have to. That was about it. It was a good conversation. I wish I could have talked for longer (wish I'd seen the DC sound quality exchange before I called) but after an hour on the phone and taking so much of Tony's time it was time to end the conversation. I hope I can do so again in the future. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 08:24:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: a coupla things... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu "Liquid Engineers" - remember this was originally taken from William Burroughs do it doesnt mean the writer has heard Metal The Dark Light gig at the apollo WAS November the 5th...looks like they printed thge wrong date on the CD. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 15:15:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Babylon To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I understand they're released for the fan club, but isnt it a little buit of a rip off having 42 songs on 7 CDs...how much will they cost ? (plus of course a 7 pounds fan club joining fee) Wouldnt it be better and cheaper for the fans if the tracks were plced on a double or triple full length CD ? The ballad album is just a re-release of old ballads with a couple new songs...Hmmm... I had reservations at first, but now Ill definately give it a miss...Full - alkbum price for 2 new songs ??? Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 07:45:52 -0700 (PDT) From: atomic@netcom.com (atomic city) Subject: bronzing redux To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Numanews Mailing List) I got my new discs back from PDO in record time; I think it was under two weeks all told! The new discs look beautiful, and are obviously made with a more traditional yummy chocolate coating. I have yet to listen to them yet; my wife doesn't want the baby overdosing on Gary until she's older. Moral of the story: if you think your discs are bronzing, go for the replacement, it's quick and safe. this isn't music this is survival, mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 atomic@netcom.com *********************** http://pd.net/atomic-city ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Switch to Dr. Pepper for the nose-sensory experience. I wrote better Pascal when I got off Pepsi. Pepsi has too many bubbles and burns your snot membranes, anyway." (d. chandler) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 16:16:50 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Copyright (again) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Aaron (Scorbie@aol.com) stated last week (#136 <-- referencing is a good idea Donald): >And as a final thought, about the Berserker issue a few >weeks back... Those of you who strongly opposed the >reproduction of the disc from a DAT copy because of >the supposed infringement should go through their >respective collections and discard _all_ bootlegs, tapes, >photocopies of articles and copies of videos they have. >Same shit........... I cannot agree. As a consumer I am not infringing on anyone's copyright if I buy a bootleg video, tape or CD. If I produced those bootlegs I would be. It would not be a "supposed" infringment. It *would be* an infringment. Having someone on the list organize the production of 60+ counterfeit CDs of "Berserker" without the blessing of Numa is clearly a violation of Numa's copyright. It is vastly different from making a single degraded copy of a video or making a tape copy of a friend's album. The copyright laws were not intended to stop you making tapes for your car, or for friends as gifts etc. They are written to prevent mass duplication and loss of income to artists, labels and manufacturers who have done all the work involved with the product. I would consider making 60+ CD copies a mass duplication and that it would deny Numa and Gary income for their work. Granted that Numa are denying themselves income by not releasing it an this would not be a commercial profit making venture, but that does not give anyone the right to make duplicates on a multiple copy basis. I wish we had a lawyer among us who knew the details. My position is that until Numa refuse to ever release "Berserker" on CD again nothing should happen. Only then, and if they give us permission to make duplicate CDs, should any further steps be taken. I hope Numa release a CD of Berserker soon so all this will be mute. Maybe I should have told Tony that if Berserker does not get a CD release soon bootleg copies may appear. Derek __________________________________________________________________________ Derek Langsford "Numanews" dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu The Gary Numan Digest SDSU Dept of Biology email numan-request@cs.uwp.edu San Diego, CA for information or to subscribe __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 12:40:07 -0600 (MDT) From: LUKET@yvax.byu.edu Subject: dark light To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Numanoids, I feel a certain satisfaction at being proved right by the miracles of modern technology. What's more, do I really care if Gary used tapes in concert? NO! Why? When Depeche Mode came to Salt Lake a few years ago they had to stop their concert because their tape broke! Hee Hee! Now, I'm sorry if I think this is funny, and you are offended by that, but I think Gary is much more interesting than DM in many ways, and though I listen to them a little too, I consider them to be Gary's competition. If it weren't for Gary, would they even exist? But, I digress. Seriously, if no one cares that the number one most popular synth band in the world uses tape, sequences, or what have you, why should I care if Gary does? Let's face it, concerts have evolved past a simple live exhibition of ones musical 'chops' and the rock concert has become a show. Gary is particularly interesting in concert. As he told Keyboard Magazine back in '90 (I think), it's not just the music, it's the image, the album cover, and the SHOW! I want to see Gary Live because I want to see the image maker weave images that match the music. Gary does a pretty darn good job of that. Take Depeche Mode for an example, on their last tour, come on, does the synthesizer world really need a retro hippie-wanna be Jesus image? Platform shoes and pads? Martin Gore in a metallic gimp sex slave suit? Big awkward chunks of metal that mean absolutely nothing and look just plain ridiculous? If anyone thinks Gary's images are laughable, those were hilarious and made Gary look like he donned Armani buisness suits on stage. But, I digress. I am simply happy that Gary sounds better live. That probably enhanced the show and hopefully it will sell more albums. Point number 2. I hope this doesn't bug you that I'm writing so much but, I really like most of "Outland" I am a sucker for cover art, and I like the cover. It looks so chilly! The intervals, though they aren't as interesting as some of DM's are nonetheless pretty darn cool. I kinda like Gary's funky style. Why? Because he's still so Gary. I don't care if he isn't as smooth and funky as George Clinton, Gary's funky style is fun because it's so unique. I'd say the only track I'd toss altogether is "Devotion," it sounds like a sad precursor to poor tracks on M+S. What do I really think is nifty? Blade Runner samples, Terminator samples. A name for an album and a studio that come from a cool sci-fi novel. Gary's Runner samples add an extra dimension to the album, call it a batch of classical sci-fi references. They fit Gary. Like Roy on Blade Runner, Gary is an out cast who was assasinated by some of his own peers. I think he identifies with the character, and the samples give me some insight into Gary. When Gary said he was going to assassinate the voice of god, he was naturally singing about his nemesis the BBC. It reminds me of Roy going to visit Tyrell in Blade Runner. It's a humbling experience to meet your maker. If you read this whole entry, Thanks, Trevor P.S. I'm not gay, but I was curious about Gary's preferences for some time. I find the possibility for lyrics that could be construed as 'gay' all the way to I, Assassin era recordings. Examples from post replicas stuff include: She's Got Claws- "I don't believe you, you said 'straight,' it's like giving up hope." The Aircrash Bureau-"you need the feeling not the man." -struggling with sexual identity? War Songs-"Old men love war songs, love Vera Lynn, Old men love war songs, now I'm Vera Lynn." A Game Called Echo-"Here we play games, Like turning men into boys, and everyone must cry or love" (I still think this is lose, but that's what the lyric sheet says). War Games-"A female son, But I won't change again, One of these days, I'll love it all and sleep, You are slow poison young friend . . ." Noise, Noise- "What's it to you, going down boys, Like a screw in the wall, my lover never leave in love." -a stretch most likely. The Image Is-"Oh look there's a man inside, the head's not the museum it's supposed to be." "Stormtrooper in Drag"-"my obsessions with boys on the floor." -now I know that most of these can be interpretted several ways, but taken together with older references they look indicative of at least an uncertainty of sexual identity. Perhaps this is just coopted Bowie-ism, with greater subtlety, I don't know. And though people would like to minimise the Bowie influence on Gary, simply by reading the lyrics of some of Bowie's older material I can see a real relationship example: "day after day, they send my friends away, to mansions COLD and GRAY, to the far side of town, where the thin men stalk the streets, while the SANE stay UNDERGROUND . . . I can fly, I will scream, I will break my arm, I will do me harm. HERE I STAND, FOOT IN HAND, TALKING TO MY WALL, I"M NOT QUITE RIGHT AT ALL . . . AM I? - I don't know about you, but some of that struck me as might familiar. taken from "All The MAdmen" from The Man Who Sold the World. The rest of the album has patches of lyrics that also sound familiar. Check it out sometime. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 21:36:34 EDT From: Tony Boies Subject: Dark Light 2CD set for sale To: Numan Digest Dark Light 2CD set for sale $27 ppd in U.S. I got sent this by mistake and I can't send it back. Please reply to tboies@leo.vsla.edu Thanks! Plus have lots of Numan vinyl for sale. Send wantlists. Tony B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:01:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward Carmack (AEN)" Subject: Dark Light Dissection To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey everybody.. Let me start out by saying that I have a degree in sound recording and have worked in recording studios in Miami and Tampa,Florida so I have a background in audio recording. In one of my courses we analyzed live material extensively. From final master analyzation to actually learning how overdubbing and mistakes are fixed in mixing in the studio we worked on it all. This made me lose faith in the live album a little bit and that's why I am an extensive bootleg collector because that is the only way you're going to get the "true event of what happened that night". Dark Light is a live and studio creation. The only clear, raw Numan undoctored live record Numan put out was White Noise followed by Living Ornaments and Dream Corrosion. There are a lot of reasons as we all know for "fixing up" a live album.. first to make it more marketable and second to make it look as if you had a flawless night on stage, which never happens. I am pretty impressed at times because Numan does leave mistakes in at times (i.e:) I Die:You Die (keyboard slip near end of song)-Skin Mechanic We Are Glass (keyboard slip near end)-Dream Corrosion Noise Noise (drum miss near end)-Dark Light These are all petty little things. I read in Billboard a few years back a bunch of recording engineers pulling apart live albums. It is so complex! Most artists take their material from several different shows linking the guitar part from New York, bass from Tokyo, solos from Miami and vocals from Atlanta and Birmingham. It's crazy! Groups like Pink Floyd and McCartney can afford to record 10 different shows and link the best parts. Numan's claim is that Dark Light is only from one night- so we need to get a bootleg to compare!!!! Dark Light is ok. Numan, in my opinion seems to use a combination of MIDI samples along with DAT tapes to pull off most of the newer material. On songs like "Bleed" Numan obviously is playing that intro off DAT because it's useless to reprogram it just to create a different sound. The vocals, drum and backbeat seem new for the show. Numan has been using these DAT and MIDI links for years in intros and as supplements just to make the songs sound fuller on stage. As in the cases of songs like "Love and Napalm" where in addition to the live playing he also has the DAT dump of the backing vocal and drum track just to make the song sound more busy. Something to remember: back years ago during The Pleasure Principle and up to about 1984..Numan still used the old Analog synths and keyboards which were like Guitars.. you picked it up and played the part which made the concert so exciting because you had to play it! Nowadays, Numan programs a lot of the music on computer and can just bring it up during a live performance (i.e.backbeats and drum tracks) I know it sounds artificial but that's what he chooses to do. We all got spoiled by albums such as "White Noise" where things were pretty much all live. Things were quite different back then. In the cases of the older material on Dark Light some songs sound all new with no tape such as Replicas,LTTSirens,Everyday I Die, etc.. In the case of "I Dream of Wires" with Gary's new synth set up it's pretty impossible to create all the original sounds without sampling from the original recording....especially the violin solo. I'm sure vocal overdubbing took place.. it always does. Just a tip Leon from the digest mentioned to me that at the actual recorded performance, Gary's mike was inoperable during the first verse of "Stormtrooper in Drag" and that it was a clear overdub in the studio. Listen to it and you'll obviously hear that there is a different effect on the vocal on the first verse up till the 2nd verse which starts "Take the smile..." We could argue all day about what's real and what isn't but you'll never know. It's a good album even if it is a little doctored in the studio. Gene Simmons once said, "We try to keep it as real as possible, but if you hit a note that was a real klunker on stage you're not going to want to leave it on the record." Hope this was not boring for you all but kind of gives you a little insight into a technical POV Take Care Ed carmack@madonna.coedu.usf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 09:51:21 EDT From: Richard.Paiement@crc.doc.ca (Richard V. Paiement) Subject: Digest Format To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) >One of the difficulties the Numan Digest has is that being a weekly or >possibly twice weekly thing is that it does not run on the majordomo >software that most daily digests and mailing lists use. The software used >is some 5 years old and has not kept pace with the increasing anarchy that >is prevalent on the Internet. In the future, especially if the Digest >becomes even larger we may be forced to go to a daily format or to have it >triiggered by size. Both would be run with majordomo software and many of >the problems currently occurring would be eliminated, until the next wave >of bugs make themselves known, of course. > >That is for the future. For now, the question is whether to go to a twice >a week format or not (See ADMINSTRIVIA before emailing your opinion). I already voted yes to the twice weekly delivery of the digest, but I would also like to suggest that if we ever go to a digest triggered by size, it should also be setup so that it goes out at least once a week, even if it does not achieve the trigger size. This would avoid long quiet spells where we would all wonder if the digest is working or not. BTW, I am not against daily delivery. With the current size of weekly posts, it takes quite a while to go through it all when I come in to work Mondays. I would rather spend a minute or two each day. It would probably lead to more interactive discussions. My last comment... I wouldn't mind seeing a Numan newsgroup, but I would be really disappointed if it had any ties with this digest. Why not have the two forums separate. The newsgroup would be interesting for anyone not on the digest, and any interesting discussions could be moved to the digest if need be. How about setting up rec.music.numan independently of this digest? ... have any of the Babylon CDs been released yet? I was just curious about the art work. R. *************************************************************** Richard V. Paiement, P.Eng. Internet: Research Engineer richard.paiement@crc.doc.ca Radio Broadcast Systems Communications Research Centre Ottawa Ontario K2H 8S2 CANADA Fax: +1 613 993 9950 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 17:06:46 MET From: Roock.Nilo.de@uniface.nl Subject: Gary and IRS, what kind of problems? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Last weeks Digest's sending problems occurred somewhere on my route I guess. Nothing I can do about it. Sorry anyway. I have changed my address as far as receiving the Digest is concerned. To Colin: please post some details about the upcoming Gary events in Manchester. I would like to know more about Gary's problems with IRS. Does anyone know more details? Thanks, Nilo. On OS/2 Warp ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jun 95 12:25:31 EDT From: Eric Goings <74577.1051@compuserve.com> Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #136 To: "INTERNET:numan@cs.uwp.edu" Hello, I would like to take this moment to add my own thoughts on : History: My name is Mike. However most people refer to me as Mic (pronounced "Mick"). I grew up a pretty isolated child, and in 1980 I discovered Gary's music. Indeed, at this time there were no "Smiths",and not many people were familiar with "The Cure". So, in order to get through those angst-ridden years, I found solace in Numan's music. Songs like "Complex" and "Please Push No More" just seemed to make sense during a tumultuous part of my life. Friends of Numan: After attending a show during the brief 1982 "I Assassin" Tour, I discovered that there were others like me who enjoyed Numan's odd perspective on the world and our society. So, I helped form the short-lived stateside "Friends of Numan" Official Fan Club. Unfortunately, the club ran out steam and $$$ around 1985. Many members lost interest because Gary's recording contract with Atlantic Records dried up. He never seemed to ever make it stateside again. IRS Records: Renewed interest came about in 1987, when Numan penned a deal with long-time fan Miles Copeland to produce Metal Rhythm on Illegal Records (U.K.'s IRS counterpart). I hoped to see him tour the states once again. However, Gary's 3 record contract with IRS expired upon the release of "Outland" ("Rhythm Nation: 1814" ?), and Gary was left without a U.S deal once again. Sacrifice and beyond: Gary Numan seems to be on track once again with "Sacrifice", although the "Spooky" inspired drum machine programs do become repetitive towards "Bleed". However one may argue that this aspect makes this Gary's most themed album since "Telekon" and "Dance". He pulls no punches when it comes to his reservations about God. Most Important, his lyrics once again seem to make sense to a man, who was once a lonely child , who has questions about his own life and beliefs. Thank-you, . Mic Hash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 23:05:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrian F Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #136 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > Date: 12 Jun 95 18:48:55 EDT > From: Colin Edwards <100025.463@compuserve.com> > Subject: Nash The Slash > > Thanks to the couple of you that have responded re Nash The Slash. I > was curiousas to what he was up to, as both when he toured with Gary > in 1980, and when he also played a small club in Brighton soon after, he > was brilliant. Like Gary, Nash had quite an effect on me, so much so > that I bought 2 of his albums and a couple of singles (one of which - > Novel Romance - was dire!!!) Who are FM that is mentioned? Being a Toronto native, and being an FM fan, as well as a Numan fan, I guess I can help answer this question. Nash the Slash gained Notereity when FM's _Black Noise_ album was released in 1977. The album was released on an independant label that went BANKRUPT a few months after the album was released. Various tensions grew and Nash left Cam Hawkins and Marty Deller to pursue (a less brilliant, IMHO) solo career. He did work with Numan as well as other artists. FM -- a late seventies to mid-'80s prog-rock/new wave band which ended up being a pop band by the mid-'80s when they gave up. So far, only one of the albums by this (great, IMHO) band have been issued on CD. _Black Noise_ was remasted from VINYL (!) in 1994 because the master tapes had gone missing. The CD still sounds incredibly sharp considering. If you like Numan you may or may not like FM -- with the spacey lyrics, sci-fi crap, some people might just laugh at it. Since the CD sold very well in Canada (and abroad) when it was issued, FM regrouped and did a series of about FIVE shows in and around Toronto. The show I was at on November 19th of last year was filmed and recorded for a video/CD release which was slated for the 2nd quarter. I still haven't seen anything, yet. Enough babbering, though. If there are anymore questions, etc., drop me a line. Cheers, -a Adrian L. Fernandes DAT Taper/Trader Extraordinaire Toronto, ON, Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------------- For my list, send e-mail with "send list" in the "Subject:" line. WANTED: Urban Dance Squad, Cranes, Slowdive, INXS, Front 242, FLA, Sisters of Mercy ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jun 95 17:14:03 GMT From: "DeriC.TomS" Subject: Greetings, Me I connect to you To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings my new friends Well this is my introduction to you. Who am I? Well My name as you can see above is Deric Toms and I was born in March of 1975 and am now failing to study Mathematics at Plymouth University although I come from Hampshire on the South coast of the UK. I have not really been into any music until fairly recently so have limited knowledge of groups, artists and styles. However friends have recently introduced me to many artists and I basically enjoy all forms of music but my favourite groups and artists that I can name are Pet Shop Boys, Ultravox, Jam & Spoon, Kate Bush, The Beatles, Science Fiction Sountracks, Bjo"rk, Orbital. I'm also interested in many other artists including Enya, Gorgio Moroder, most eighties stuff of which I have heard very little, Philip Glass, Kraftwerk, and all others. Well Gary Numan was introduced to me within the last year by Ashley Pomeroy. He struck me as fairly good at first but I know have more of Gary Numan than any other artists in my music collection. Not only do I now love the music but I also think that some of the cover artwork is so excellent and thought provoking. Expecially The Pleasure Principle although I do not as yet own this but I have heard small snippets that sound rather good and very much Gary Numan in style. I have just bought Sacrifice Extended which is pretty darn good but I have not listened to it a great amount as my CD player is battery powered and seems to get through electron flow really quickly. Most of my music is on cassette and I have yet to by a vinyl player. I also play trumpet/cornet although I am a lot out of practice. I have a small Yamaha keyboard and a "Stylophone" which is really groovy and fun. I would like to learn guitar as well as all musical instruments. Ah well I cannot think of much else to fribble about so I hope this serves as a reasinable introduction. Cheerio and be friendly, Zz...dEZz...zZ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | = 80 __3__ @'. |\ ^ ' ` ____|)____________|_\_______|___________|__|__|___________|__________ ____|____3________|__|__|___|_______|___|__|__|___|__|____|___|____|_| ___/|____-___|___@'__|__|___|___,@__|___|__|__|___|__|____|___|____|_| __(_(_)__4___|_______|__|__O'___|___|__@'_@'_@'___|__|__b@'___|____|_| ___`|'_______|______@'__|_______|___|___________#@'__|_______O'____|_| (| mf O' > > | ff "Dezz" ` ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 15:24:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert F Hanczyk Subject: Intro To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi all. My name is Robert. I am a senior at the University of Pittsburgh majoring in Computer Science. I started listening to Gary Numan's music when I first saw his video for "Cars" when MTV started playing it. I've been collecting other albums of his over the years as I find them, mostly in used record stores. I've noticed stores such as NRM, Camelot and Sam Goody just don't seem to carry him. The last I heard of what Gary Numan is doing nowadays is from an MTV interview. He's involved with air shows I believe, flying and possibly sky diving. He seemed quite pleased with his new line of work, so I didn't expect to see any new albums from him. I was suprised to see this mailing list existed and am glad to now be part of it. Among the other artists I enjoy listening to along with Gary Numan and his synthesiser music are Sting, The Police, YES, Asia, a-ha, Big Country, Blondie, Missing Persons, Duran Duran and the list goes on. (I have a wide range of musical tastes and Gary Numan just happens to be near the top of my list.) Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 09:01:46 -0500 From: bender@vacsdg.attmail.com (bender) Subject: Introduction To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Fellow Engineers, I am glad to find this mailing list/digest of Gary Numan fans, and look forward to a wealth of information/discussions on this topic. I am a long-time fan of GN and still have my 8-track tape of _Pleasure Principle_, along with my GN cd's. I play keyboards, guitar&bass, program/sequence drum machines and synths. I work for AT&T in the engineering dept.(zzzzz), and I think that's enough about me. "We're Engineers ..." BobbyB. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 15:40:53 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Living Ornaments/Berserker CDs - not yet To: numan@cs.uwp.edu David Leck asked about the UK CD release of "Living Ornaments" BEGA 155CD Yes, it was planned but Beggars Banquet could not find the tapes for the 80 show. They wanted to put a full 75 mins of each concert on CD. BB told Numa that they would pair the Wembley 81 farewell concert with LO 79 instead. There has been no sign of this set yet. And this info is more than a year old. We wait impatiently. 70+ mins of the LO concerts can be found on the Japanese Asylum volume 3 CD. Even though 79 is edited down they merged it with 80 so it sounds almost like one concert. The omitted tracks are present as bonus tracks on other Asylum vol 1 discs. And about Berserker. This should be in the FAQ which is under construction. Briefly, a "Berserker" CD (with the cassette extended mixes) saw a limited 2000 disc release via the UK-only Gary Numan Fan Club in 1991. It was Numa's first release after the split with IRS but occurred before the distribution deal with Pinnacle which now distributes all Gary's Numa material. So only a few copies found their way out of the UK. I was able to acquire copies for some 35 or so in 1992 when I visited the UK. They ran out later that year. Numa are looking at repressing the CD and I am doing all I can to make it happen and for it to be a general release so that all fans can finally fill the biggest hole in Gary's CD catalogue. Greg Samson is collecting names of people interested (see "Conversation with Tony Webb" in this issue). It may take a bit more persuading but I am confident "Berserker" will see CD release again either with the cassette mixes as before, or with the vinyl mixes. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 19:21:30 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: NAGNFC Update To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I just got the latest issues of the Fanzine from the North American Gary Numan Fan Club. It appears that Jim Napier (a.k.a., The Machman) is trying to get his club running again. True to his word, he has extended the memberships of all current members by a year to make up for the hiatus he took from the club with no notice. When Jim is able to attend to the club, it is a decent institution to be a part of. His Fanzines offer a wealth of information from a variety of sources around the world. The Fanzines also feature articles on Numan copied from popular music magazines, offers for Numan merchandise from other fans, and the opportunity for pen-pal exchanges. The club also holds an annual Numan convention every August (the last few years it has been held in Ithaca, New York) which I have never attended but I've been told they are pretty fun events. The problem here remains the inconsistency of the club. Jim has not been able to release his Fanzine on a regular schedule for quite some time now despite promises to start doing so in the past. With my current membership being extended by a year, I suppose I shouldn't complain too much since I'll be receiving free issues after the next four come out. If the possible inconvenience of the irregular Fanzine schedule is something that you're willing to live with, then you will want to write to Jim for further information on joining his club at: Gary Numan North American Fan Club c/o Jim Napier 165 Enfield Center Road, East Ithaca, NY 14850 - 9280 USA International memberships are also accepted. In news from the Fanzines: -Dutch club member Rudy Meijerink is attempting to secure an interview with Numan in conjunction with _MIDI Recording_ magazine. He has already received a favourable response from Beryl. -Back in May, during MTV's show "120 Minutes," the featured group of the night was Pulp. When asked who their favourite influence was, one band member proudly mentioned Gary Numan and his song "Cars." -Numan recently made an appearance on the UK show "In Bed With Me Dinner" in which he played a live version of "Scar." That's about all for now. I'll keep everyone posted on all future developments. Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 11:40:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Schumann Subject: noise noise To: numan@cs.uwp.edu What is going on with the digest? A 9000 line message with 3 (or is it 4 or 5?) copies of last week's digest? 412000 BYTES?!? Ads from Hot Wired?!? Screens and screens about formatting text and looking for one's name... You have a computer, man! Most of them have search facilities by now, and besides that, please take it offline. I could say more, but if I really want you to read it, I'll email it to you and not burden the rest of us Numan fans. On a more cheery note, I found a copy of Skin Mechanic Live on VINYL at t local record store for about US$14 after tax. If anyone wants it, I'd be gald to pick it up and send it to you. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 08:01:18 -0700 (PDT) From: atomic@netcom.com (atomic city) Subject: Not really Gary-- FM To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Numanews Mailing List) Colin asked who FM were. In short, they were a trio of musicians from Toronto who played progressive rock with a HEAVY scifi edge to it. The lineup was: Cameron Hawkins, bass, keyboards and lead vocals; Martin Deller, drums and percussion; and a lead electric violinist/ mandolinist. On three of their albums (Head Room, Surveillance, and City Of Fear) this role was filed by Ben Mink, who played violin on Rush's 'Losing It' and is now the bandleader for k.d.lang; on the other three (Black Noise, Contest, Tonight) and their recent reunion tour, former Numan guest artist Nash the Slash did the honors. Nash also sings on the latter two albums; his deep, harsh voice makes for an interesting contrast to Cam's high, sweet one. The lineup with Mink toured with Rush in 1980-1981 and are credited in the liner notes of Exit Stage Left; I saw them and was totally blown away. Black Noise has been rereleased on CD; it's VERY dated, but fun. I think that Nash was actually best on his own, though, and the FM albums without him are far superior to the ones with him. Black Noise is good, but Contest is wretched and I haven't had the guts to listen to Tonight.... back to the numan! within a ship of mind and metal, mike -- mike metlay * atomic city * p. o. box 81175 * pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 atomic@netcom.com *********************** http://pd.net/atomic-city ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Switch to Dr. Pepper for the nose-sensory experience. I wrote better Pascal when I got off Pepsi. Pepsi has too many bubbles and burns your snot membranes, anyway." (d. chandler) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:06:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward Carmack (AEN)" Subject: NUMAN COVERS To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Does anyone know the artists that have covered Numan songs in the past? I know that Marilyn Manson did a cover of "Down in the Park" but who else?? What song did Smashing Pumpkins cover and what is it available on? And I heard that NIN did a cover of "Metal".......help me out!! Ed carmack@madonna.coedu.usf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 17:51:21 From: jon.lester@index.com Subject: Numania II To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, I have sold the `That's Too Bad' single but I still have these items: `That's Too Bad' & `Bombers' double single, '79 reissue $20 `Are "Friends" Electric?' 7" picture disc, the very one that put Gary on top of the charts in '79 $20 JACK'O'NUTS "Taking Him Over"/"Taking Him Out"/"La Horne"/"My Shadow In Vain" (multiple copies available) $3 Please include $3 for priority mail with your order. There is more Numan vinyl to come, including a 7" of Tubeway Army playing "White Light White Heat" at the '77 Roxy show plus the band that came to be known as Mean Street playing "Just A Bunch Of Stiffs". I think I can get multiple copies of this one. Also I'll have the '85 Tubeway Army EP series, "1978" vols. 1-3, each with colored vinyl, and I think I have a duplicate copy of the original '83 issue of vol. 1 with very heavy black vinyl. Send a note to me at [jon.lester@index.com] before ordering so we can be sure who's in line for what. -Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 22:30:38 EDT From: Tony Boies Subject: Numan vinyl for sale To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Thanks to everyone who has bought records from me. I hope you have been satisfied. I've still got a lot left, however! Please send wantlists to tboies@leo.vsla.edu I've toyed with the idea of putting together a feature article on Gary for submission to Goldmine magazine, but haven't had the time to really get into it. If people would like to, please send me ideas/info and perhaps we could collectively put something together that sounds good and turn it in. It would be good publicity for Gary if they did print it. All they could do is say no. Thanks, Tony R. Boies ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 18:04:12 From: jon.lester@index.com Subject: Radio Heart domestics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I recently found and bought two different domestic pressings of the '87 "Radio Heart" single, which surprised me because I don't remember the Atlantic group doing anything to promote it. Anyway, both are on Atlantic's Critique label. One in a white sleeve with a sticker saying "Atlantic/Atco AOR Promotional 12"" and is numbered PR 2027. The other is in one of those regular Atlantic 12" covers of the time, the one with a picture of a guy playing a saxophone (you probably remember seeing the Nu Shooz single with this same stock cover as you were flipping through the N section) and it is numbered DMD 1068. Both are otherwise identical. I thought that might be interesting to all of you. Why might there be two DJ pressings but little if not no retail pressings? Is it because the plug was pulled on the RH album before it was even out long in Europe? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 22:13:27 -0400 From: GYMnIF@aol.com Subject: Stuff For Sale (Thanx Lilly!!) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello again! Just a few relatively meaningless points. I read in Digest 136 that Lilly@Netcom.com saw my post in the Marketplace.. I only posted there after not getting much of a response posting the same items here. I will always give Digest members first shot at anything I pick up (and it seems that I will continue to have success finding cool stuff both for me and for sale) Mr Lilly, I think, thought that $55 for Strange Charm was high.. it may be, as I have not sold it.. but I can remember when I first purchased my copy and the one I have for sale that people were getting 75 pounds for copies in the UK (from Record Collector magazine) In any case, it is still available for $55 postpaid if anyone wants it. The singles are also still available, but Ghost has been sold! I found a Japanese CD copy of New Anger, and even though it isn't my favorite release, I seem to be turning into more of a completist, CDwise. Everything is the same on the Japanese version except that all the lyrics are included, unlike the cheesy US pressing. Plus pages of stuff in Japanese that I can't translate. In closing, if anyone has any specific CD or vinyl wants, please Email me.. except for the Berserker or Radio Heart CDs, I don't even have copies for myself! Thanx for reading, -Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) From: bubble sorter Subject: t-shirts To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > On the subject of digest t-shirts the question was raised with regards to >TM problems. > Since this IS "Numanews - the GARY NUMAN Digest" I don't think there is >any problem having THAT on the t-shirt. There would DEFINITELY be a problem >if we were the "'Are 'Friends' Electric?' Society" or something like that. yeah but i was hoping to make it a little more slick than "numannew - the gary numan digest" .. someone suggested to me usig the back of the replicas album with the eye, which i would like to do but i doubt is possible without getting some sort of permission. well actually, who's going to know? since ONLY FIVE PEOPLE are interested at all. i'm not going to look into this any further until at least ten or fifteen people express interest, though. actually i don't think calling it the "are friends electric" society would pose a real problem, but we're not called that so who cares. erin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 20:46:11 -0400 From: annagrey@sover.net (Clea Boone) Subject: Totally Off Topic To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Just curious...but who got the most copies of Digest 136? I got 18, not including the clean copy (thanks!). Clea, just rambling annagrey@sover.net.us DeviXF@aol.com.us ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jun 95 15:34:29 EDT From: Simon Bone <70324.1340@compuserve.com> Subject: Tour info?!? To: Numan News Numanoids! >i recently picked up a used CD copy of _exhibition_. aside from a having >a scratch which renders "on broadway" and "are 'friends' electric?" >unplayable, My copy of Exhibition (both discs) was the only one that wouldn't play in my car CD player--Turtle Wax, Armor All et al wouldn't fix it, but the actual aluminum surface was flawed on both discs. Flawed, not "bronzed"--it was as if the playing surface were not smooth enough for the player to be able to read it. I'm sure some of you know what I mean by this. Did anyone have any similar trouble? As for Derek's observations: >Did it get reworked in the studio and "improved"? Was a substantal part of >the backing tracks played via tape? Was the percission programmed? I think a lot of what he's doing is programmed and MIDI'd, so although played live it produces identical results. >It was the old thick, analogue synth sound of the early 80s, not the digital thin >sound of the synths Gary has used since the mid 80s. I imagine he sampled his old sound with an even more recent synth. I don't know what Gary has done with all his old keyboards, but I'm sure he keeps some of them around. Anyone know? A couple of you mentioned info about the forthcoming UK tour. I'd be very interested in coming to the UK to see Gary play. Feel free to fill me (and, no doubt, many others) in. One point I'd like to mention: Even though Gary's always been strongly associated with synthesizers, I've always thought that he had a really innovative guitar style. Not the Tubeway Army power chords, but the ringing harmonic, atmospheric guitar that's often buried way down in the mix. Example: "White Boys and Heroes." This style of playing is practically absent from the funky, female-vocals era, but it's back on Sacrifice. That's something I hope he sticks with. The band Hole, featuring Courtney Love, has apparently started covering "Cars." I was dragged to the Berlin concert, where they did not play in, but apparently it was added to the set in London, shortly before Love had an overdose and cancelled tour dates. Anyone know about this? Simon G Bone | "Lass doch all die Deppen Potsdamer Str 63 Apt 913 | Ihre Paeckchen schleppen D-10785 Berlin GERMANY | Doppel-Whopper fressen Tel (+49) (30) 261-5625 | Was war ist laengst vergessen" 70324.1340@compuserve.com | --Tamara Danz/SILLY Maillists only: Simon=Bone@rz.hu-berlin.de (Humboldt University) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 11:51:56 -0600 (MDT) From: "BRIAN D. HAMMOND" Subject: Various Thoughts To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, between reams of junk in last week's digest (I am refering to the unsent messages, etc., and not any individual's messages - so don't anyone get mad at me!) there was some great information. In particular, I truly enjoyed reading the latest news, Fan Club information, and Numa's catalogue system for live albums vs. studio albums :-). Many thanks to Colin Edwards and Leon Smith for the timely updates. I was fascinated by Numan's direct appraisal of _Machine And Soul_. I was also interested by the fact that Numan is still working on his book. I thought he once said he'd given up on that - nice to read that he's still plugging away. The prospect of Numan's next album being darker and even more meanacing is truly exciting. I also liked his reference to _Telekon_ which not only is my favourite album of his, but aside from _I, Assassin_ (arguably) is Numan's darkest album ever. For the first time in 10 years, Numan and I once again seem to thinking on the same page! In regards to "We Have A Technical." I'm not sure if Mr. Rosencrantz wanted a tape of this song or just a listing of where it appears. I'll supply the latter and hope it helps: First appeared in 1985 on "Unreleased Recordings - Volume 2" by Beggar's Banguet. This EP was the 2nd of 3 and appeared on both black and red vinyl. Complete copies should also contain a flyer advertising all three volumes in the series and _The Plan_ LP which was also released at the same time. This is a *great* song recorded during the _Replicas_ sessions. Personally, I've found the red vinyl EP to be easier to find than the black. Track also appears on the _Asylum 1_ CD set on the _Replicas_ CD. Finally, it appears on the BB reissue of the 2-on-1 CDs. It is on the _Replicas/The Plan_ CD. Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 13:31:01 +1000 From: Donald Neil Pedder Subject: when GARY started smiling To: numan@cs.uwp.edu RUPERT (#135) mentioned that it "all started going wrong" when GARY started to smile ('83). I think that that's when things got BETTER. From the sudio album's point of view, that is when he started to "push the boundaries" of music. Some (most) people don't like that - I do. I guess that it can be BEST summed up by saying that the later arrangements were more daring and thought-provoking. Either you like that or you don't (generally). In a word - it is CHALLENGING, as opposed to, say, RELAXING (this ISN'T a criticism - just an observation). What I'm TRYING to say is that with the old albums, you can "kick back" to them, but the later stuff "involves" you. I'm not really finding the words I need, so I hope you know what I mean. It's interesting that the start of "notsogood" doesn't seem to be fixed. I have seen it variously identified here as anywhere between DANCE and STRANGE CHARM. As the music became more and more "different", more and more people said "that's enough", figuratively speaking. These people have "come back" though. We KNOW that GARY lost a lot of fans with DANCE, yet I haven't seen anyone in the group that identifies that as the "start of the end". I think that fans that he lost here NEVER came back. And STRANGE CHARM - I've seen a LOT of people say they like "My Breathing" a lot, but not the other stuff. It's almost as if that ONE song saved the whole album. Still, we'll know the WHOLE picture when the POLL is complete. Anyway, I don't want to pursue that thread at the moment (I haven't got the time for a "debate" on this yet). I'm just "wandering" towards my MAIN point which is about the live perspective of this. A lot of people have said LIVING ORNAMENTS is their fave live album. I can understand liking it more because of the songs therein (i.e. NO "notsogood"), or because of the TIME it represents, but from a PERFORMANCE point of view I can't fathom this at all. It is very "awkward", and GARY is quite clearly NOT COMFORTABLE with what he's doing. No talking. No dancing. No smiling! (actually I should clarify - I am now SPECIFICALLY talking about the video TTP). Along comes MICROMUSIC and he's a bit more relaxed - but THEN, check out BERSERKER. THIS is my favourite performance (or maybe THE SKIN MECHANIC - watch out for those low-flying teddy-bears GARY!). GARY is COMPLETELY comfortable with what he is doing. From here on in he's chatty, he smiles, he even laughs sometimes (I loved it the first time I heard him laugh), and look at him moving around the stage - he's INTO IT. From this point on he "gave it all" to his performance, from having being previously...."reserved" shall we say. That's all I wanted to say. DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 17:25:54 EDT From: Richard.Paiement@crc.doc.ca (Richard V. Paiement) Subject: Who is FM you ask... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Colin Edwards <100025.463@compuserve.com> said >Thanks to the couple of you that have responded re Nash The Slash. >Who are FM that is mentioned? FM is the band Nash the Slash started with Cameron Hawkins (bass, keyboards) in 1976. They released their first album Black Noise in 1978. Black Noise was finally re-issued on CD about a year ago. Nash left FM to pursue his solo career, and he was replaced by Ben Mink (violin, mandolin). FM released the following albums without Nash: Head Room (1978), Surveillance (1979), City of Fear (1980). Nash returned with FM in 1985, when they released Con-Test, followed by Tonight (1987). These last two albums were 'total commercial sellout attempts' in Nash's words. With the re-issue of Black Noise on CD (1994), the original FM line-up (Nash, Cam, Martin Deller on percussion) has reformed and are playing sporadically. They are currently putting the finishing touches on a new album and should be out touring starting July. BTW, they are based in Toronto. >I defy anyone to listen to Vincent's Crows and not say that it is >brilliant!!!!!!!!! I fully agree. BTW, I have a very complete history and biography of Nash and FM that I have been compiling. It is already a year and a half old, and is missing some tid bits of information which I have not yet had time to include, but I can send an ASCII format version of it to anyone requesting a copy to me at richard@dgbt.doc.ca Richard P.S. Please don't reply saying that Head Room was FM's first release in 1977. It is true that the copyright of one of the pieces on this direct to disc album is 1977, but the material was RECORDED and RELEASED after Black Noise was released. *************************************************************** Richard V. Paiement, P.Eng. Internet: Research Engineer richard.paiement@crc.doc.ca Radio Broadcast Systems Communications Research Centre Ottawa Ontario K2H 8S2 CANADA Fax: +1 613 993 9950 ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************