Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 01:00:03 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #170 Gary Numan Digest Sun, 29 Oct 95 Volume 1 : Issue 170 Today's Topics: An update on Gary's web site bits'n'pieces Cars - the momentum is growing comments and questions Guess what I found! Kill Sir Joy vs. Pure St. Joy Live material for the 96 tour OMD Support & Numan at Guildford Response to Joey L's Comments the role of a fan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 95 22:30:54 EDT From: Subject: An update on Gary's web site To: I thought an update on Gary's web site might be in order. Entitled NuWorld, the site goes in for testing on 1st December, with a planned release date of 1st January. Gary will be housing his site on the same server as me at County Internet Services in the UK. We are looking at getting a domain name registered, which should look good. I'm testing Gary's HTML at the moment and it looks quite impressive. It is split into several sections and includes news, a listing of merchandise and the ability to join the Fan Club. Gary has also just purchased a Power Mac for his parent's house. This means that they, and therefore the Fan Club, will have an email address. Watch out for more details of all this soon. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Matthew Holbrook http://www.county.net/machman/numan.html machman@county.net ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 12:22:22 GMT From: P Lindsay Subject: bits'n'pieces To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi all I just thought I'd leap in with my 10 cents. Lots of thoughts, nothing really coherent - - I hope everybody has seen the new Carling Black Label Advert (at least those of us in the UK) - I couldn't believe it ! They've used 'E'-reg Cars to produce a really classy promo. Lots of my friends have seen it and liked it, even before I start ranting on about the soundtrack. - Gary was written up in Melody Maker the other day in the A.W.O.L. (whatever happened to...) section. Instead of the expected usual piss-taking we've come to know and love from the music press, the article was headed "Gary Numan, a name we're going to be hearing dropped a lot in the next few months." - the article itself was short and reasonably complimentary, except for getting the flying stories wrong (again!). Both MM and the NME seem to be gradually coming round to a Numan revival, which can only be good, especially if this rumoured -big- record deal materialises. - Songs I really want Gary to play next tour : Warsongs (played it only once to my knowledge on the last tour), This Prison Moon, This is my House, My centurion, Warriors, A dream of Siam, Strange Charm. Lots of other stuff, but basically, some from I, Assassin, Warriors and Strange CCharm. I think these have been cruelly left out in recent years. I'll write again when this editor speeds up past snail's pace (netowrks is really slow today) cheers, Phil Lindsay. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Oct 95 08:07:48 EDT From: Subject: Cars - the momentum is growing To: As reported previously, Cars E Reg model is being used to promote a new Carsberg lager on UK TV. This is being used in prime time slots and includes the first verse and the fadeout - running to over a minute. The campaign is proving very successful and a deal has now been signed to use the advert in cinema from January - for three months. Steve Davis (who puts on the World's best Numan discos) reports that the track is generating significant interest at his non Numan discos. It was so popular this week that he put on Machine and Soul straight afterwards and even more people started dancing! It's doubtful whether ANY of these people would have heard of Machine and Soul before - they were mainly students, more interested in today's teeny bands. Steve just couldn't believe the reaction it all got. You can't tell me that something is not stirring. Steve and I would like to think that Cars will be re-released. Admittedly it's been issued more than any other Numan song - but things are very different this time. Hit singles often come from adverts. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Matthew Holbrook http://www.county.net/machman/numan.html machman@county.net ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 20:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: haley@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Michael M. Haley) Subject: comments and questions To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi y'all! As a recent newcomer to the group, I would like to salute Derek and Co. for their tremendous efforts over the past three years! Keep up the great work!!! While doing my homework (i.e., reading the back issues of the Numan Digest), I came across this little comment from Oct 12, 1992: He (Gary) would rather not see a revivial of his older material. "I can't stand this disease of nostalgia", "I hate revivialist music". "We should all look foward, enjoy the past, but don't live in it." "I don't want to revive my past. I want it left as a memory so that I can get on with writing better things". -- It would seem that he has had a change of heart since then, judging by the content of Dark Light and Dream Corrosion. I for one am not complaining, as both CDs seem to be spending alot of time in the truck. DC went on numerous snowboarding trips this past season. This past week I went back a few live CDs and was listening to Ghost and The Skin Mechanic. I think I have come to the conclusion that I really don't like the hyperkinetic drum machine/ percussion that Gary has used on tour recently. It is really evident on songs like Love and Napalm, Films, IDYD, etc. Compare the versions of We Are Glass on TSM vs. DC - TSM version is much better IMHO. Comments? Of course, now that we have six live CDs, I think TSM is the cleanest, best sounding of the lot. Follow this with DL, A3 (LO), WN, G, DC. This order, however, has nothing to with setlist! If so, it would almost be in reverse order. Several times in recent issues of the digest have the tapes of the Isolate Tour been mentioned as a possible live CD(s). Is there anything particularly special about this tour? Was it like the last two tours with the large variety of material? Just curious. I am glad to here that fanclub membership goes worldwide in 1996. I plan on joining January 1. That said, will it still be possible then to get the Babylon CDs that came out this year? I hope so! Ciao, Mike PS. Derek - what do you do in the Bio Dept at SDSU? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:58:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Sutton Subject: Guess what I found! To: Gary Numan Digest Hello Electric Friends While working in our new office, doing renovations, I stopped next door to a new shop called Golden Oldies. It is a record store in Buckhead which is in Atlanta, Georgia, and they deal in used and cut out recordings as well as reissues. I found half a dozen 45's of Gary Numan's Cars b/w I die; you die that are re-issues on the Atlantic label but through Warner Electric. I haven't seen the catalog, so I don't know if they are re-releasing any others, but the 7" 45 is new, so they are in abundance i am told. Contact Suzanne English at Golden Oldies 2297 Peachtree Road, Atlanta, Geogia 30309 or call at 404/352-1311. That's about it for now. Glen Sutton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zendrum Corporation e-mail:Zendrum@RandomC.com PO Box 15369 Atlanta, Georgia 30333 - the future of electronic drumming- (404) 874-6824 fax:(404) 425-0755 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:13:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Monica and The Machman Subject: Kill Sir Joy vs. Pure St. Joy To: Gary Numan Digest Don't want to do any muck raking here, but I'm curious how many Numanoids out there think the last track on the Live At The Roxy 1977 album is "Pure St. Joy" (as it's listed on the LP) or is it really "Kill Sir Joy" (as I've listed on the discography)? It's a good question for Gary, of course, if he could remember the track itself, but maybe we can resolve this one ourselves just by listening to it a few times. I personally believe Gary is singing Kill Sir Joy and I know what album covers have listed is not always the case. We need no other proof on that than the "Letters"/"Face To Face" mix up in 1983, but I'm sure we all know that it was a mistake by the engineer (at the time) as Gary was not in the studio when it was mixed and then released. Opinions? I think we can post responses to the Digest for everyone to see. The Machman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:01:40 -0800 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Live material for the 96 tour To: numan@cs.uwp.edu We may have lost focus in the live material discussion but the main reason why discussing what Gary might perform live on the next tour is so fascinating is that we have some say in what he actually does play. Since Gary changed his mind about playing old material (just before the Dream Corrosion Tour), we have been treated to two live albums with wonderful song selections that cover material spanning a good deal of his career. His desire is to put out live albums of each tour and to make them good value to fans by playing mostly material that has never been on live albums before. In addition, he likes to record the last show of each tour during which he plays all the songs they have played at each venue. Outside of the last show, each venue gets a subset of the material they have rehearsed. Unfortunately, they couldn't rent the recording unit for the last night of the Sacrifice Tour hence the recording is of the earlier London show and was missing some songs played elsewhere. The intention was there but the execution didn't come through. If we can come to some sort of consensus on the issue we can offer a list to Gary with the knowledge that this represents the views of a group of fans that is likely to be not too far different from what all fans want to hear. Although with the majority on the Digest being American and the tour being in the UK, it would be emabarrassing if Digest recommendations bombed with a UK audience but I don't think that would happen as I don't think there really are differences between the likes and dislikes of fans from different countries. Gary will probably be performing 15 or 16 songs that are not from the new album on his 96 tour. Should we have anther poll? I'll let someone else offer to do it. Perhaps we should wait till after the Definitive Poll is closed. Anyway, my point is, with direct contact with Gary, we can help him select material for his next tour by making suggestions. Did you ever think you would have such an opportunity? I never did until Gary emailed me. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 95 21:00:43 EDT From: Robert Eggleston <100025.760@compuserve.com> Subject: OMD Support & Numan at Guildford To: "INTERNET:numan@cs.uwp.edu" As I was'nt a member of the fan club at the time and had no Internet access, I was totally unaware of the Numan support slots for OMD. This really gets to me as i have seen him on each tour since 83 and hate think what i missed. Could someone please give me a run down on what he was like, what he played, what the audience reaction was, or tell me which numan digest number it was covered in. I also was at Guildford when Gary played WAR SONGS, it was a complete mess and it was'nt just the musicians Gary forgot most of the words. I love that song and was sorry he just gave up on it, I think he should practise and try again next tour. I was interested to hear Gary say that Sisters of Mercy are one of his favorite bands, If Gary did not exist it would be Sisters of Mercy all the way for me, the only thing that stops me thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread is Numan he just knocks allcomers aside. I would agree with the sentiments of another subscriber that "I WONDER" off M&S is a great song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:37:21 +0000 From: "iwisman" Subject: Response to Joey L's Comments To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings: I agree with Joey's extensive response on the subject of Digest participation. I too am just a fan, separated by time and distance. The digest is a forum for fans to express their views of a common interest. For the typical Numanoid, Gary's music has become a part of us. His lyrics always hold some special meaning to each of us. I have found it refreshing to hear interpretations of songs from other subscribers and Gary himself! I feel "I Wonder" is one of the greatest ballads Gary has ever done. Lyrics like "And sometimes, I remember, how to feel again" are very deep. If I wrote all the lyrics I feel are either metaphorical or phlisophically "deep" I could fill a book. "Child with the Ghost" is right up there too. I did not know the true meaning the song before the digest. How it "was written about Paul Gardiner, or more specifically his daughter" and so on. (I learned this from another fan-- Leon). Listening (over the years) to the songs, I associated my own feelings and life events with the characters in the songs. "I think of years I think of you." another classic (Whisper). Perhaps a new branch of philosophy could be called Numanism. Its main tenet would be the human experience in dealing with adversity and emotional longing. Or I could be wrong. Oh well. "I'm a ghost in the dark and I'm yours" Rudy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 16:43:56 +1100 From: dpedder@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (DONALD PEDDER) Subject: the role of a fan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu While I have been patiently waiting for someone to come and "untie" me in late November (read that as "when exams are over"!), I have managed to get a hand free to get this message out! :-) And why have I done this? well, there has been quite a few postings recently over what GARY should/shouldn't do - and I just wanted to say....SHUT UP!! WHEW! Having got that off my chest, let me elucidate.... A while back (about 6 months ago) I tried to get a DEBATE happening over how people saw the way a FAN should behave. I think it's timely to resurrect this discussion (it never got going PROPERLY the first time). For you LURKERS out there, here's your chance to contribute. You may NOT be "someone inside with the news" (gratuitous quote :-) ), but this comes down PURELY to having a personal OPINION on the matter. I don't think there's any shortage of those here! And if you're worried about being "told off" or whatever, don't worry. With MY early postings I copped a bit of flak (more on this point later), but recently, since I have been somewhat "absent",I have been discovering that there are people who MISS my contributions. In the long run you get a mix of the good AND the bad - it just comes with the territory. So, WHY do I want to get this debate going again? Well, CLEARLY I feel that people are not behaving as I would EXPECT a "fan" to. I am NOT telling these people off - just asking "do you think this behaviour is appropriate?". If they think it IS, then that's fine. They can do whatever they like. I would just like to relate MY view on things, and then the floor is open (note that that DOESN'T say "it is then OPEN SEASON on DONALD"! We want a DEBATE - not a slanging match). FIRSTLY - what *I* would call "a fan". The word is CLEARLY derived from "fanatic". I am a FAN of NUMAN. I have a number of FAVOURITE artists - but I WOULDN'T call myself a "fan" of all of them. To me, "fan" means "beyond simple appreciation". You not only BUY a large number of these people's records, but look FORWARD to them. Whilst there are a number of artists of whom I will buy their stuff when it comes out - NUMAN is one of the few where I CAN'T WAIT for the new stuff to come out! I will explain more on this shortly, but in MY book, a MUSIC fan does NOT criticize the artist in question. The emphasis on "music" is deliberate. There are people who will say it is their RIGHT as a fan to criticize - and they justify this stance with an analogy of a SPORTS fan, who sees fit to criticize his/her team as he/she sees fit. The point I want to make HERE, is that whilst they are both "fans", they are NOT the same thing. The subject of a persons SPORTS "fandom" has a clear goal - WIN! And more times than not there is a clear way to ACHIEVE that - STRATEGY. And so when the person/team fails to win due to an incorrect strategy, the fan feels that he (for EASE I am dropping the "he/she" business, so, NO emails please calling me a sexist!) has a right to say "you DUMMY, why didn't you do THIS!". THIS is quite DIFFERENT with a MUSIC fan. The artist isn't a "team". There's no SCORE. There's no strategy. He's an ARTIST. He makes MUSIC according to his artistic desires! And so, out there in the real world, there are people who really LIKE what he does. And they become "fans" of his. And after a little while, he starts to follow NEW desires, and the so called fans say "hang on! we like the OTHER stuff. do MORE of THAT!". But, y'see, he's an ARTIST. He has a NEW canvas to work on. Why would he want to paint the same thing AGAIN (unless he HIMSELF really liked what he had done so much he couldn't resist - in THIS case it was probably a nude! :-) ). HOPEFULLY, by this stage the person still IS an artist, and hasn't fallen prey to the "rock and roll syndrome" (well put scorbie). For THESE are the people who DO see a score in music - how many RECORDS they have sold! 'Tis truly the death of an ARTIST when this happens. So, does this mean the fan can't say ANYTHING when he is displeased. NO! A fan has EVERY right to say "well, y'know, I didn't like THIS one so much". But, a fan has NO right to say "hey, do THAT one again". The distinction here, is between some friendly advice, and a directive. I know PERSONALLY, that if someone says to me "Hey DONALD, I really liked/ disliked it when you did this!", then I will be more/less apt to do the same thing AGAIN. BUT, when someone say "do/don't do that", then, being the independent person that I am (i.e. I like to make up my OWN mind), I am likely to REBEL. MOST people are like this. When I first started posting, I made a few SUGGESTIONS (nothing more/nothing less), BUT, a few people got up in arms because they FELT they I was coming in and trying to TELL people what to do (which I wasn't). This illustrates NICELY the point I am making here. It also brings up a side-point. Always read a post a FEW times before posting/replying. Have you REALLY said what you want to say? Have you really READ what the other is trying to say. Never post something without re-reading a few times, and never reply without re-reading a few times. I've seen a lot of angst over rash emails. This particular email has been sent over a day since I FIRST wrote it - to make sure I'm comfortable with what I've said. Another thing it highlights, is that ANOTHER mis-understanding arising out of this was that some people felt I was criticizing them PERSONALLY, when, in actual fact, I was merley addressing the POINT! And so, when you say to GARY "I didn't like this as much", you are CLEARLY referring ONLY to the song. But, when you say "I didn't like it when YOU (GARY) did this", it becomes PERSONAL. Another matter altogether. Here's another way to look at it - you "tell" GARY what he's doing wrong, but supposedly like him. Let's say you DISlike JANET JACKSON (just to pick an example out of thin air! :-) ). Do you tell JJ you don't like what she's doing? No, you don't. And yet you are telling someone you LIKE what to do! I see that as being rather duplicitous (a nice way of saying "two-faced"). DEREK commented that it wouldn't be nice if GARY saw criticism of him in the digest, and that's quite FAIR. GARY has copped ENOUGH criticism from people who DON'T like him, without having to cop it from his "fans" as well! We STILL have every right to tell him what we have liked, and not liked so much, that he has done. But, come on people - if GARY really ISN'T coming up with the goods in YOUR eyes, then WHY do you still call yourself a fan? (if you do). You have EVERY right to go off and start buying someone ELSES records if they are MORE to your liking. Just because you bought a "GARY NUMAN" record DOESN'T now make him OBLIGATED to do things the way YOU want! I, for one, would like to see GARY become a subsciber to the digest. I think most of us would. Our views would be going "straight to the top"! BUT, I WOULDN'T like to see that become just ANOTHER way of GARY copping even MORE criticism. Don't YOU think he's had enough already? I mean, he's written enough damn songs about how POORLY he feels he's been treated by the media, not to mention US adding to it. Remember, that it is ONLY through GEMMA that GARY got *USED-TO* (note double- emphasis) the idea of OUTLAND not being liked so much. He would've (understandably) been quite PROUD of that album, so people not liking it is a let-down. To use an NFL analogy - to ME, GARY is like the 49ERS. They don't ALWAYS win the Super-Bowl, but they are CONSISTENTLY one of the BEST. For ME, BERSERKER (and a few others) is like a year when the 49ERS win the Super-Bowl. OUTLAND is when, well, they DIDN'T go "all the way", but at least they STILL made the play-offs. There are a LOT of other artists out there not even making the play-offs! OUTLAND may compare poorly to some other NUMAN stuff (note that I'm NOT saying it DOES), but comes off quite WELL against stuff from OTHER people. So, that's my 2 cents worth ("more like a dollar!" do I hear?). Please don't drag me into a point-by-point comparison here - I DON'T have the time. You've seen MY views, let us ALL know what YOUR views are - whether you agree OR disagree. And let's keep it civil. I haven't called anyone names, nor said anything to (deliberately) offend anyone, and I expect the same in return. And if I HAVE offended anyone in any way, I'm sorry. none is intended. I just want people to THINK about the REPERCUSSIONS of their actions! (in PARTICULAR if this criticism WERE to find it's way to "the top"). My last thought is that we ALL have ONE thing in common - we like GARY! And yet, within that, we are also all DIFFERENT - for we don't all AGREE on which album was his best! And so, let's talk about what we like/dislike about GARY's work, find what we agree/disagree about, but let's not feel that we can TELL GARY what he should/shouldn't be doing. HE CAN DO WHAT HE DAMN WELL LIKES! DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" P.S. Anyone who is kinda waiting on a response from me to any personal emails will just have to be a little patient - even as I speak there are these men coming into the room to tie up my one free hand again and oikjnL/., KM, ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************