Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 01:00:02 CST From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #173 Gary Numan Digest Thu, 9 Nov 95 Volume 1 : Issue 173 Today's Topics: Brief intro for newbie calling numan net experts Change of "address" Do NuWAVes violate copyright? Gary Numan Gary Numan Digest V1 #171 Human human? Introduction lurkers vs posters : the end NTSC Numan video/dubs wanted! numan (2 msgs) NUMAN LIVE RECORDINGS OT: Joey? Salute This and that unsubscribe various related topics WOW!! SO many new members!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 1995 10:24:24 BST From: Prof Graham Westbrook Subject: Brief intro for newbie To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi All I'm new to the list, so here's a brief intro.... I'm in my late twenties (not giving anything away here!), married with three cats and a horse. I've been a closet Numanoid for, oooooh, about 10, 11 years or so. I remember "Are Friends Electric?" being played on TOTP and thinking, "WOW - Brillient!" (as you do). It sort of carried on from there. I've only been to a few concerts of his, but throughly enjoyed all of them... the lights, the stage sets, and of course, Gary! (I touched his hand once, don't you know (I'll never wash again!)). I also recall the bruises from being squashed up against the stage when the rest of the audience made a dash for the front. Ahhh, those were the days. Standing in queues for hours on end in the cold, jumping up and down to try to see inside the tour coach.... In fact, the whole family were quite keen at one point, with my elder brother being consumed by a passion to play the synth. Now my younger brother is taking up the thread and plays old Tubeway Army and other LP's to death. We don't seem to have heard much from Gary over the years. Still flying his aeroplanes most likely. What news, what news? Vanessa ******************************************************************* * G.K.Westbrook JANET: G.K.Westbrook@uk.ac.bham * * School of Earth Sciences INTERNET: G.K.Westbrook@bham.ac.uk * * University of Birmingham * * Edgbaston * * Birmingham B15 2TT UK * * Tel: 0121 414 6153 Fax: 0121 414 3971 * ******************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:14:51 GMT -0500 From: "Dan Coffeyx3685" Subject: calling numan net experts To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have only been online for a little while, but i have a few questions i need answered after years of searching for them... Any help would greatly be appreciated... 1. could a US tour be possible if major deal is signed? 2. Is there a merchandise order list for US residents?? phone preferably.... 3. Is there an album after sacrifice?(Human?) how is it?? thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:18:36 -0500 From: Astronif2@aol.com Subject: Change of "address" To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Sorry about the inconveinence, would you please send Numanews to this screenname in lieu of "P10P". P10P is not my personal screenname and now that I have one Planet 10 would appreciate it if I received my mail at my own screenname. Thanks so much, Jennifer Howland Astronif2@AOL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Nov 95 11:09:05 MST From: lindstrj@cadvision.com (Joey Lindstrom) Subject: Do NuWAVes violate copyright? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (First, my apologies for using an alternate email address this week. My regular service provider is moving its offices this weekend and I'm unable to use my "numanoid@netway.ab.ca" address) This is in response to Matt Holbrook's note in Digest #172 in regards to the NuWAVes package (that I created and distribute). He was worried that it may be a violation of international copyright law and that I may be risking prosecution, particularly by Beggar's Banquet. I think I'm fairly safe here, Matthew. Let me launch into yet another patented Joey Lindstrom Long Dissertation on Why Things Are As They Are, or JLLDoWTAATA. :-) (Try saying that five times quickly!) First off, let's take a look at copyright law. I am a citizen of Canada and am bound by the Criminal Code of Canada and various other and sundry provincial laws. Under our copyright code, I can use up to 8 seconds worth, or up to 4 bars worth (whichever comes FIRST), of any copyrighted piece of music - EVEN FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. Radio stations do this all the time - they're safe, so long as they fall within these parameters. As far as NuWAVes is concerned, nearly all of the samples included fall well within the parameters as I've indicated. Thus, I'm immune from prosecution ON THOSE ONES. As far as Beggar's Banquet is concerned, I have included exactly one sample from a BB-copyrighted song - NUMAN1.WAV is sampled from "War Songs" and runs approximately half a second. I have very, very little to fear from Beggar's Banquet. If that sounds nasty, please read on - I mean them *NO* ill will whatsoever, I'm merely postulating worst-case scenarios here. This leaves Numa Records (and Machine Music) and IRS records. I'd have to go back and time those samples again in order to determine which ones may or may not fall within the "immune" category, but let's assume for the moment that ALL of them DO NOT fall into the "immune" category. At that point, they've got the beginnings of a case. They can then request that I cease and desist. Regardless of whether I do or not, any case that they launch against me (in a Canadian court, I might add) would have to prove one of two things: 1) That I have harmed them in some way, or 2) That I have gained monetarily from the use of the copyrighted recordings. We can brush #2 aside right now, as these wave files are free for the asking. As for #1, this is the reason why the proposal to "roll our own CD's", made earlier this year, was shot down. Even in the case where a record company has stated that they have no intention of re-releasing an album, they may ONE DAY change their minds. If there are bootleg copies already out there, then they have been harmed the moment they make the decision to re-release. So the only thing I have to worry about is whether or not any of the companies in question intend to do what I did and create a commercial package containing Gary Numan music samples. But do I really? We've batted this idea around a lot, so I'm going to show this by example. Earlier this year, the rock band "The Eagles" came to Calgary. As part of my duties at the radio school I was attending, it was my job to produce a promotional 30-second commercial for the concert. I used about 20 seconds of "Life In The Fast Lane" in the commercial. I did not receive prior permission from their record company to use the material. I did not need to - I was using THEIR MATERIAL to PROMOTE THEM. They can prove no harm and cannot prove that I have profited from the use (the sale was made prior to the decision to use the music). In fact, the only people that profited from this use were the people who stood to make money from the concert itself (which was a huge success, I might add). My radio instructors, who are VERY strict when it comes to CRTC broadcasting guidelines and copyright law, didn't even bat an eyebrow. Promotion of RECORD SALES, dear friend, is precisely the goal of NuWAVes. It's out there, being distributed amongst not only Numanoids, but also among people who've never, ever heard of Gary Numan. And... if you have actually downloaded the package and read the documentation, you will see a very specific exhortation to users of the package. It reads exactly as follows: All sounds have been taken from a number of albums by "new wave" artist Gary Numan, as noted below. Gary Numan is much, much more than the star behind the 1979 mega-hit single, "Cars". Be sure to pick up your copy of "The Best Of Gary Numan '78-'83" in most record stores throughout North America and the UK, and if you'd like to see what he's been up to lately, order a copy of his latest album "Sacrifice" from the UK - it's well worth the price of admission. The documentation then goes on to give very specific credits, as follows: WAV# ALBUM SONG ====================================================================== numan1 ias War Songs numan2 out Soul Protection numan3 out Soul Protection numan4 out Confession numan5 out Confession numan6 out My World Storm numan7 out Dark Sunday numan8 out From Russia Infected (**) numan9 out Devotion numan10 out Whisper numan11 mas Generator numan12 mas Poison numan13 mas Poison numan14 mas U Got The Look (*) numan15 mas Love Isolation numan16 sac Pray numan17 sac Pray numan18 sac Magic numan19 sac Bleed numan20 sac The Seed Of A Lie numan21 fur Call Out The Dogs (**) numan22 fur This Disease numan23 fur Your Fascination numan24 fur Your Fascination numan25 fur Your Fascination numan26 fur Creatures numan27 fur Creatures numan28 fur Creatures numan29 sc My Breathing numan30 sc Unknown And Hostile numan31 sc The Sleeproom numan32 sc I Can't Stop numan33 sc The Need numan34 sc This Is Love Album Legend ias - I, Assassin (C) 1982 Beggar's Banquet fur = The Fury (C) 1985 Numa Records/Machine Music Ltd. sc = Strange Charm (C) 1986 Numa Records/Machine Music Ltd. out = Outland (C) 1991 IRS Records/Machine Music Ltd. mas = Machine + Soul (C) 1992 Numa Records/Machine Music Ltd. sac = Sacrifice (C) 1994 Numa Records/Machine Music Ltd. All songs written by Gary Numan, except: (*) Written by Prince (**) Includes sound samples from the motion picture "Blade Runner" This instantly absolves me from any wrongdoing, Matthew - I am very specifically promoting SALES OF RECORDS ("be sure to pick up your copy", and "order your copy"), and I'm using the package as a way to hook people in a completely unique way (since they're not likely going to hear Gary's music on the radio). You might argue that I'm also using it to promote Netway, the internet service provider that I work for (and that houses both a copy of the full archive plus clickable links to hear individual samples), but I then point out that this package is available on many sites OTHER THAN NETWAY. The documentation itself mentions Netway only once - in my return email address (numanoid@netway.ab.ca). You'll note that I've even gone so far as to credit IRS records for the samples taken from the "Outland" album, even though they (and/or Gary himself) never bothered to acknowledge ANYWHERE on the liner notes their use of samples from the movies "Blade Runner" and "Red Heat". Pot calling the kettle black? But none of this is about "how much can I get away with without being sued?", it's about promoting Gary's music in a new and interesting way. The three record companies involved are getting promotional value from the package WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING RECORD SALES IN THE LEAST (this would be different if I were out there selling, or giving away, sampler CD's containing complete songs). There is also a "Fair Use Doctrine" that comes into play here, and in every respect I've followed it. I did not go too far with it - you will find in this package only enough to whet the appetite, not satisfy it. Intent is half of the defense - the other half is results. If any of the three entities involved (Beggar's Banquet, Numa Records/Machine Music, and/or IRS/Illegal Records) asks me to cease and desist, I will do so, but only after presenting my case to them in full and asking them to reconsider, and after finding out the reasons for the request (ie: show me how I'm harming you). If they still want me to cease and desist then, I will do so gladly (and I'lll follow up by tracking down as many copies as I can on various FTP sites and asking that it be removed). The same goes for Gary himself, if he feels that this is inappropriate for some reason. I'm not out to step on anybody's toes here - absolutely the opposite. I received email from Gary myself some time ago on a related topic. This was in regards to an idea I had to take this idea a step further - to put FULL SONGS (but in a low-frequency, and thus low-quality, format) on my web site. I specifically asked for his input on the idea BEFORE going ahead with it, as this would quite definitely be a whole different kettle of fish than NuWAVes is. If I recall correctly, I also asked if he could put me in touch with the right people at the three record companies so that written permission could be obtained beforehand. Gary's response, in a nutshell, was twofold: 1) As far as the Beggar's Banquet and IRS material was concerned, this was something he had no control over. He seemed to feel that it was something that neither would take too kindly to and cautioned me against using that material for this reason. He did not have the information I requested but seemed to hint that there was little chance of success. In other words, "don't bother, they won't go for it" 2) As far as promoting the Numa Records/Machine Music material was concerned... well, he didn't go QUITE so far as to say he had no problem with it in principle, he intimated that was the case. HOWEVER, he went on to say that he too had similar plans for NuWorld, and that having two sites with this material on them would put them in conflict and/or competition, and that perhaps it would be best if only NuWorld carried them. I agreed with Gary's reasoning on both points and have discontinued my plans in that area. No toes were stepped on. I looked both ways before crossing, and saw two trucks, a bus, and a taxicab coming my way. In conclusion: I really, really hope nobody has their knickers in a twist over this. If they do, I'd appreciate it if they'd kindly tell me, and tell me why. I'm only human - I believe I've thought this out as well as is possible but it's certainly quite possible I may have missed some possible repercussions. I have operated under the assumption that this is something that both the members of this Digest *AND* the record companies involved would approve of - I'm not trying to "get away" with anything at all. If that's a mistaken assumption, I want to know it. And, to be fair, I'd like to know why. /--------------------------------------------------------- / Joey Lindstrom / numanoid@netway.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:04:55 +0100 From: patrick.huwel@ping.be (patrick huwel) Subject: Gary Numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu You have now been added to the Gary Numan mailing list. Please send an >introduction message to the mailing-list (numan@cs.uwp.edu, not the >sender of this message). In this message, please let us know who you >are, who some of your favorite artists are, how long you have listened >to Gary Numan. Let us know if you play any instruments or anything else >that might come to mind. If you want to know anything about me visit my homepage.(The url is in the signature) My favourite musicians and bands are: Gary Numan of course, Electronic, Alan Parsons,Genesis, Pet Shop Boys, Art of Noise ,Kraftwerk , Tangerine Dream,Anna CLark , Depeche Mode , The Buggles , Yes,.... and all that style of music. ranging from keyboard to symphonic rock. I'm a keyboard player with some studio experience, but usually play at home, I'm a composer too, recently sold my korg 01w/fd and waiting to buy the new trinity coming out. Last year I sold my Roland D50 which Gary frequently uses in his songs.(He probably uses the sound module linked via midi) so girls and guys that's it. TAKE THE DAY AS IT COMES BUT BEWARE. GREETINGS FROM BELGIUM, COMMUNICATING IS LIVING. VISIT MY HOMEPAGE IT'S ON HTTP://WWW.PING.BE/~PING2831 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:02:09 -0500 From: Adorations@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #171 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Please change my sending address to: adration@tezcat.com Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 14:20:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Subject: Human To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, I bought "Human", and Ive got to say I was dissapointed. I know a lot of fans like to have EVERYTHING he recorded, bt this album to me seems like such a filler. 36 tracks, 60 minutes long. It DOES say in the inlay they're just little ideas and musical doodles, but afer Sacrifice and Dark Light I was dissapointed. The thing is, so many of Gary's intros/instrumentals are very similar and a whole houir's worth gets a bit tiring. My ambient/techno loving friend likes it though cos he can use endless samples off it I guess! Anyway, if you're not too well off, I wouldnt rush out and buy it straight away. I wouldnt say it was the most essential Numan album.... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:03:46 -0500 (EST) From: one of them Subject: human? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu so... thirty six tracks.. nineteen bucks here in the states.. should i go for it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 20:13:10 -0500 From: jwm155@psu.edu (Hope Raudive) Subject: Introduction To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi! My name is Jason Moyer (aka Hope Raudive), and although I've been a member of this group since issue #152 or so, I've been so busy that I haven't had time to my introduction until now. Basically, the reason I treasure receiving this digest is because Gary is THE reason why music is the number one thing in my life. I was born into a home with an extensive record collection that consisted of some of the all-time greatest unique bands that have ever existed, including the pre-synth Moody Blues, the Doors and the album Ceremony-An Electronic Mass by Spooky Tooth. However, at the age of three my father purchased an 8-track entitled "Rock 80" (which I still own to this day), and it included the infamous track "cars." I don't really remember my reactions to that song all that well, aside from begging my parents to play it constantly, but I've been told that I used to spend hours sitting in front of my parents' stereo with a plastic Fisher-Price drum kit, pounding away as I made them play "cars" over and over. I honestly don't know how this has influenced me, to be honest, but about a year ago the band Marylin Manson did a cover of the classic "Down in the Park", which brought back the faint memories I had of my childhood days spent listening to Gary. Shortly thereafter, I was rummaging through a used CD-bin looking for Talking Heads and Devo CD's when I happened upon Gary's greatest hits. The typing on the price tag was very small, so I thought, "wow! A double CD for 4.99?!?" Of course, when I went up to pay for my CD's, I was told that the correct price was $24.99. So I had the owner play the Numan disc, and after hearing "Are Friends Electric?" and "Everyday I Die" I put back the other CD's and bought Gary's. Although I've since sold his GH, I've spent most of the past year searching everywhere I can to find as many of Gary's CD's and LP's as I possibly can, because they are soooo good. Plus, who can pass up a demo copy of Replicas (in NM shape) for $3? Gary definitely ranks in the top 6 of my all-time favorite artists (the others are Bowie, Reznor, Cevin Key, Ian Curtis, Tori, and Kevin MacMahon from Lucky Pierre/Prick - if you haven't already, get the Prick CD...it is one of the most beautiful, creative electronic albums to come out in quite awhile). My favorite tracks from Gary (so far) include most of the Tubeway Army/Replicas albums, plus "complex" and "music for chameleons." Regarding recent critiques of the Dance album, I must say that at first I was very disappointed that the earlier Numan CD's only come packaged with the later Dance-era stuff, which, in the context of the greatest hits CD's, didn't create much of an interest in me. However, the Dance CD, as a whole, is a wonderful listen. Other than "she's got claws" and that awful, out-of-tune song that everyone's been writing about, I don't have any idea what the song titles are, and I don't really care. Dance shows just how much of an influence Gary was on later ambient-type artists, the way the songs flow together into one unbelievable aural experience, and just the general strangeness of the tracks included. Personally, I love it! However, it doesn't get spun unless I have time to listen to the whole thing, which isn't often, unfortunately. Well, to end my rather lengthy intro. I'm currently 18 years old, and am a student at Penn State University in the process of changing his major from Computer Engineering to Music Composition (don't ask me why I used caps there). I play several instruments, none to the point of virtuosity, but I consider myself able to play guitar, piano, drums, and a variety of easily operated household appliances, depending on my mood. I'm probably better at singing than anything else, having taken several voice lessons and just generally enjoying the feeling of singing for people's enjoyment (amusement?). I'm currently in....I mean, I currently AM a band called Raudive Voices, which has a sound very much influenced by Gary, Bowie, goth/industrial, jazz/blues, and Ian Curtis (although I'm told the vocals sound very much like David Gahan from Depeche Mode, although better - gag!). I'd say more, but if you really want to know about it you can write me and request a free sound sample and band info. Hopefully "we" will be touring soon, as my best friend is helping me plan a stage production and has many contacts. Anyway, I hope that Gary can finally get his big US contract that he's been searching for. I, for one, will be doing all I can to help promote his name among the music "scene." I think the rising popularity of electronic and dark music (Gary himself has been listening to Sisters of Mercy and the Mission) could be a great boon to Gary's career, and I know that the goth/industrial-types I've talked to have very much enjoyed his work that I've shared with them (especially Replicas, but I'm sure they'd like Sacrifice and Exile as well, based on what I've heard about them). Anyway, if any other members have any other ideas as to how a younger member of the digest can help out the cause, please let me know. I've been thinking that maybe we could get a "petition" sent around and signed by Gary's supporters, and then show it to some American recording companies, just to give them proof of Gary's stateside appeal.. Even if Gary was only able to get a contract with a label such as Cleopatra or Projekt, which I think could be done easily, it would still mean US distribution and an improved availability of his CD's. I don't really understand the music business all that well, so don't be offended if my comments don't make much sense. One final idea: has Gary considered contacting the President of Nothing Records (Mr. Reznor)? I just have this gut feeling that Trent would be honored to be involved with a legend such as Gary, and apparently with his upcoming cover of "metal" and the previously mentioned cover of "down in the park" (which he produced) he realizes the influence that GN has had on modern music, including his own. I don't know...I like to dream....just pray that Trent wouldn't be involved with production :) This, of course, would mean MUCH improved visibility. (I realize this last section is causing most digest members to wrinkle their noses in disgust, but I just wish Gary could somehow get some help on this side of the Atlantic, any help). Blah blah blah. Sorry about my extreme verbosity, just another lurker talking to his musical counseling group... Love, Hope Raudive "the strangest living boy you'll ever see - that's me!" ------------------------------ Date: 08 Nov 95 16:42:44 EST From: Andre Lortie <102162.2077@compuserve.com> Subject: lurkers vs posters : the end To: numan digest As the unwitting originator of the ( I hate that term) lurker discussion,let me just say a few more things before putting it to rest. Judging from the content of the digest these last 2 weeks the feedback was mostly positive, lots of new names,no flaming, logical points on both sides . BUT let me make one thing clear : I wasn't forcing anyone to post ; I guess I was feeling more introspective than usual when I noticed the whole thing to begin with...( too many GN ballads maybe).So it's over I hope, and no hard feelings.I think we can now put the pressure away .Post if you want to or not,at least now I 'll know why people keep quiet. Now on to more practical matters: I sent a letter to the fan club in september asking for info about obtaining good tickets for the next tour but have yet to get an answer.Now I know the membership will go worldwide on jan 1 but that's a bit late for us in North America,at least it's a bit distressing to me; I'd like to set up everything in advance.We know that the tour is in March/April but the last date has just been changed recently. I personnally would like to see the last 2 shows, with good seats if possible, so is there a way we can be assured of this? (maybe Derek or Matthew can help a bit since you've got a direct line so to speak).If someone plans to go for 1 week,it leaves a very small window of opportunity,if you're going 2 weeks it's a bit easier to make it fall in the middle,but what about the tickets? So can anyone help...?? thanks Michel Lafontaine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: Stevorama Subject: NTSC Numan video/dubs wanted! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi, folks... Out-of-range American fan that I am, I have yet to see most of the Numan video that has been commercially released. I have "Micromusic" and "Dream Corrosion" (more about that in a minute). Anyone having access to NTSC originals or dubs are encouraged (no, begged) to let me know if I could obtain these from you, especially the MTV-style studio stuff, since "Cars" is the extent of my experience in that arena! (A List member offered dubs of all the video in existence, then only sent the two aforementioned videos despite more than 3 months of e-mail asking what was up. Still no more videos. . Even though I have indeed been ripped off, I am hesitant to mention the name here, but e-mail to me will get you the name in a heartbeat. I am currently checking into procedures concerning e-mail fraud prosecution.) But enough whining. Be a pal and help a Numaniod out! Cheers- Steve in Florida ------------------------------------------------------------- If we had some eggs we could have ham and eggs, if we had some ham. ------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael R. Ward" Subject: Numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Thanks for including me in this group. I am a 28yr old Numan fan from Syracuse, NY presently enrolled in Information Studies at Syracuse University. I already have a BS from SUNY Oswego in Business Admin.. I am a big car fan and collect toy cars as well as Numan lps. I love all Numan's work except Automatic and Machine and Soul. I am becoming a big fan of his live recordings but have never seen him live or on video. I would love to correspond and learn more about Numan. I fiddle around w/ a Moog Source synthesizer but am not musically inclined. I do not have a copy of Ghosts and would appreciate anyone who could provide me w/ a cd or cassette copy. It is the only full length recording of his that I do not have. Thank You again for including me. I apologize for any mistakes as I am not a typist and am just learning about the internet and e-mail as I am not a tech person. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 18:27:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael R. Ward" Subject: numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu SS ttt rrrr I am completely new to the concept of e-mail so please bear with me. I am a 28 yr old numan fan since 1980 (2 cut-out bin records of telekon and the pleasure principle.) I fiddle aroung with a moog source synthesizer. I am a big automobile nut. I collect toy cars and drive a VW Passat. I have all of the Numan recording except Ghosts. I have become a big fan of his live recordings. I would love to hook up with anybody who could find me a copy of Ghosts in either cd or cassette. I am from Syracuse,NY and presently am back in college at Syracuse University where I finally learned what e-mail and internet is. I love everything Numan has ever done except Machine and Soul and his album with Bill Sharpe. Telekon is my present favorite. I wrote a music column for my school paper during my college career at ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:58:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Vincent Attard (COM)" Subject: NUMAN LIVE RECORDINGS To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey out there!!! If anyone is interested, I have been trading live Numan audios for years and have a large collection available. If anyone is interested in swapping, just drop me a line. If you have nothing to trade, I will trade for blank cassettes. e-mail me for a list request or info!! Just IN!! 1984- Birmingham 1992- Isolate tour (w/U Got the Look, Time to Die, The Skin Game) 1993- London (A Boot recorded same night as Dream Corrosion) On the Way- Sacrifice tour video!! PS- I'm desperately in need of the Sacrifice vinyl, if anyone may like to make a trade. - On the Joy Circuit Vince. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:33:14 -0500 From: annagrey@sover.net Subject: OT: Joey? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Howdy folks. Sorry to post this to the list, but someone w/ a web/Webb page In CA) emailed me about being a fan, and not only did my mail bounce from your address, but I can't remember who you are.... ~~~~{:-/ Clea :-) -- Duchovnik! N.E. Phile Trouper GADDFB GANTA MPPB/MPEB * * * All truth passes through three stages * * Telekon First, it is ridiculed B5 Fan Second, it is violently opposed GADDAB DHCB Third, it is accepted as being self-evident WWTBJLSWWGU Schopenhauer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 08:47:26 -0500 From: "Jeff Colaw, 224E, 7473" Subject: Salute To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings! Thought it about time, after reading the digest for a few weeks now, to post a few lines to show that there still is a pulse along this strand of the "Webb." I have been a Numan-fan since seeing Gary in concert in Pittsburgh in 1980, although I can't say I'm a fanatic. A rememberance of the concert was during Down In The Park the result of the tremendous amplification system caused the huge two-story chandeliers to start swaying, disconcertingly I might add. Perhaps this inspired the later dance-oriented style, Gary seeing that he could even make inanimate objects dance. I enjoy the digest alot, the discussions usually being very interesting. It's great to see Gary's involvement by sincerely answering questions quite honestly. A lot of gaps have been filled, since living in the US there is absolutely no information at all about Gary. Very puzzling. I admire his sense of pushing the boundaries of his creativity not unlike Brian Eno. It's sad to see his taking so much heat for a few albums that weren't as bad IMHO as I've been hearing. There truly is a quality to them. It must be difficult to take such criticism for something that you've literally put your heart and soul into. Such is life in the vanguard. When you witness an artists creative evolution, it's difficult for me to pick favorite albums, songs, periods, etc. I've never been one to require some catchy harmony or melodic hook to appreciate music. I suppose it's a mood thing with me as to what I play. One thing often overlooked is Gary's ability to write ballads and heart-felt songs, Complex, Please Push No More, Miracles, Love Is Like ClockLaw, Child With A Ghost, God Only Knows, I Still Remember, etc. being wonderful pieces. Then changeing gears, giving us songs that seem to pick you up and almost effortlessly get you moving. Anyway, I ramble... I do have a Wish-List. These are CD's which I don't have and want but can't find anywhere here. I'd like to pick up: The Plan, Exhibition (I have the "US-released double-CD's" with missing cuts), Machine and Soul (Extended), and Sacrifice. I've not even heard the latter two. Can anyone be of assistance? I'd be much obliged. Cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 12:54:19 -0500 (EST) From: Glen Sutton Subject: This and that To: Gary Numan Digest Hi there Electric Friends, well, just some thoughts that have been rolling around this noggin of mine, and felt that since I had a minute to write, I'd send them your way. First of all, I try not to argue another person's opinion (unless it is really stoopid or deadly) as i believe, for the most part, that opinions are worth what you paid for them until you place a value on them. So here are a few of mine.... Dance- I love all of Gary's music, all of it. If there are favorites, I'd have to list these in no particular order: We take mystery to bed and White boys and Heros (because they are funky), You are in my vision, Cars,, Complex, Please Push no More and ....well this is difficult as I can't really name favorites as they all have a special meaning to me...anyway what I was leading to was that some albums to get played more than others only because they fit certain needs more often and Dance is one of them. It is ethereal and soothing (side one) and pleasant to listen to while resting after a long day or when reading or writing. I think I remember hearing or reading once that Dance was Gary's homage to Brian Eno's Another Green World (1975) and as I listen to them back to back, can see a resemblance or at least the influence (if there was one). Also, I got from someone's posting that they assume that the word dance refers only to fast paced uptempo music. Dance can also be slow (like the dying insect analogy) and moderate. It can refer symbolicly to to many things and can be a command as well as a request. So who knows what his intentions were in naming it Dance, I never questioned it as it seemed appropriate to me when I bought it. In regards to a live playlist: As I have yet to see him play live, my list would be pointless to add since I would be thrilled to see him even if all he played were renditions of Mary had a little lamb. Nobody, and I mean nobody sings like Gary, which makes him so unique. I like I sing Rain for and with all of its supposed off-keyness. There is so much inherent emotion and feeling...what can I say? When people say he can't sing, I play them a variety of songs to demonstrate that he can, and does have a great voice ( I wish I had one tenth his singing ability) especially in one of my most played tracks Love Like A Ghost. (Haunting). In regards to lurkers, manifestos, self appointed reviewers, etc: all I have to say is- blah blah blah. In regards to so called fans demanding anything from Gary: He is a person. A real live, honest to God breathing human being of a person and as such has his own needs, desires, dreams, whims, ideas, thoughts, likes, dislikes etc etc etc, and to impose our critisms as if they mean much in the grand scheme of things is not only ludicrous but selfish. Sure, I would love to hear more P.P. and T. era music, and when I feel that way I play those records. And if Gary decides to invoke those ghosts once again in any shape or form then I will listen to them with all the eagerness and excitement that I do when I hear any new to me Gary Numan music regardless of how far he goes with his music. That is what excites my ears and mind about Gary is that he makes his OWN music. Music truly his. With wailing female vox and guitars or wobbly phasing synths. If he sang only with acoustic guitar or piano, or a cappela, it would still be Gary Numan to me. If I sound blindly devoted, well sure why not. He certainly deserves it. Is there anything I wish he'd do differently? Is it for me to ask such things? I am glad to know the man is still doing what he loves. I am glad to hear new things are happening in his career and wish him all the best. I am glad that so many fans still exist and wish them all the best and hope they continue to support and help the man the best they can. By being fans. Well...I guess I have spouted about as much as I can this time round. So its bye for now and have a great day and so on.... Remember, I am human Remember, I feel just like you Remember, I had reasons Remember, I had friends like you Glen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zendrum Corporation e-mail:Zendrum@RandomC.com PO Box 15369 Atlanta, Georgia 30333 - the future of electronic drumming- (404) 874-6824 fax:(770) 425-0755 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:21:00 -0500 (EST) From: AWESTWOOD@delphi.com Subject: unsubscribe To: numan@cs.uwp.edu unsubscribe numan-digest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:48:33 +1100 From: dpedder@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (DONALD PEDDER) Subject: various related topics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, here I am for a brief encore performance. I just wanted to address a few points which have come up recently, and then I REALLY have to try and stay away from the keyboard. I am combining these points for my own convenience, but they DO all tie in together in one way or another. RESPONSES TO MY "FAN" POSTING ----------------------------- It's nice to see quite a few of you agree with me, but where are the DISSENTERS?! Can't have much of a DEBATE if everyone AGREES now, can we? JOEY said that he agreed bar one point - the news is that we DO agree on that point. I probably didn't have my posting structured well enough for you to realize. You picked up on my comment about not "criticizing" GARY. This is a very AMBIGUOUS word. You said that CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is O.K. *I* said the SAME thing, but sought to eradicate the word "criticism" altogether. I made the distinction using "friendly advice", and "directive". I would be QUITE happy to say to GARY "I REALLY liked BERSERKER,because...". HE would then be able to take that information, and act as HE saw fit. I WOULDN'T say to him "I want you to do BESERKER II!". THIS is the kind of approach I was objecting to. CORY pointed out that even some of MY words were ambiguous, and that SOME dissension could be coming from this. I can see that. The words he highlighted CAN be interpreted in, shall we say, a "motherly" tone. i.e. DON'T do that - you'll stick your eye out!". It SHOULD'VE been read as some HELPFUL rules. i.e. "If you DON'T want to stick your eye out, there here is what you NEED to do". THIS is,in essence, where I came unstuck with my infamous "mix/edit/version" posting. People felt that I was TELLING them what to do, rather than giving some helpful ADVICE on how to be CLEARER when posting. Having said THAT, my comments were NOT directed at ambiguous posts, but rather, at "manifestos" and the like. I don't believe these kind of remarks BELONG in the digest. In PARTICULAR, if we ever want GARY to become a subscriber. I'm SURE he wouldn't want to see people saying "Hey, Do THE PLEASURE PRINCIPLE II. The other stuff sucks!". I'm sure he would WELCOME some friendly advice/constructive criticism though. LURKERS ------- As JOEY pointed out - you guys can REMAIN silent if you like. That wasn't the ORIGINAL point. As OFTEN happens in mailing lists/News Groups, a thread kind of takes off, and along the line the original point gets lost. The lurkers stuff was FIRST brought up because BRIAN and MYSELF were already largely absent, and DEREK was ABOUT to become fairly absent, and he commented that some other people might care to pick up the slack. This is PRIMARILY directed at people who DO have the time and inclination to post, but usually DON'T because they think to themselves "ahhh, DEREK will answer that. no need for ME too as well!". Well, now you CAN! The OTHER point here is that often,even with MULTIPLE answers to a question, you often get different SLANTS on the answer. For example..... I remember when someone asked about what books were available on GARY. BRIAN, and MYSELF, and someone else (JOEY I THINK) ALL posted an answer. The interesting thing WAS, that we all had more or less the same DETAILS, but we all had different ADDITIONAL stuff as well. MY answer included some QUOTES from the books. BRIAN'S answer included GARY'S view on one of the publications, and JOEY(?) had something else AGAIN that the other two didn't have. So, the MORAL is that even though 3 answers may APPEAR to be a "waste", in fact it is NOT. And so, some of you people who don't NORMALLY post answers, might like to start DOING so. At the MOMENT, JOEY and MATTHEW are holding up the fort pretty well, but IMAGINE if THEY were to become "absent" as well. What then? Well, guess what! #170 & #171 totalled 75k. IF you were to take away the posts of DEREK,JOEY,MATTHEW,MYSELF, and the RESPONSES generated by MY post (after all, they wouldn't have BEEN there otherwise), you are ONLY left with 37.5k for those 2 issues!! pretty sorry! WHAT BELONGS IN THE DIGEST? --------------------------- MATTHEW said that he didn't believe that my "fan" posting was entirely appropriate (since it wasn't SPECIFIC to NUMAN). This comes with the territory. Sometimes you go on little TANGENTS. The point of my posting was that, whilst the digest is great AS IS, it CAN be even BETTER. My "fan" posting was aimed at ONE aspect of that (and the "mix/edit/version" at ANOTHER aspect). Some people may NOT appreciate stuff like what I posted, but others will. The digest needs to cater to a VARIETY of tastes. Different people like to read it for different reasons. Some people have a reasonably GENUINE gripe that they have to pay for their access according to how MUCH information they have to download (and thus, don't like to see stuff they are not interested in). I like to liken it to a NEWSPAPER. You PROBABLY don't want to read the ADS, but you have to PAY for it nonetheless. You can't say to the vendor "HEY,I ONLY want to read the articles! get rid of the ads and give me a discount". You read the digest for stuff YOU are interested in. As a CONSEQUENCE,you have to RECEIVE (not neccessarily READ) stuff that OTHER people are interested in. And of course, SOME people buy the paper FOR the ADS. Because they are looking for a good deal on a COMPUTER, so that they can "get connected" and get ALL the latest info on GARY!! :-) ALSO, whilst GARY is undoubtedly the FOCUS of this group, you can't ever (really) be THAT restrictive. Sometimes "tangents" cone up. e.g. it WOULDN'T be unreasonable to see a discussion of the NUMA label artists here, or OMD given the close connections (speaking of which, does anyone know why PAUL isn't in OMD anymore? email me PERSONALLY if you feel it DOESN'T belong here). And sometimes discussions come up relating to the MEDIUM we are using. e.g. someone may want to know what is the best stuff to get to HEAR the NUMAN samples as clearly as possible. So, it all just comes with the territory! Here's what *I* see as the roles that a mailing list/NG fills... NEWS ---- - latest releases and whatnot. - Q&A's - buying and selling/trading - articles (I will start posting what *I* have soon. anyone else have some?) FORUM FOR DISCUSSION -------------------- - debates "False start - NIGEL DAY - 10 yards - repeat first down" (yes, this is an oblique reference. all SHALL become clear. over to DEREK) - polls - Q&A's (yes, I listed this twice. it CAN fit in EITHER category). so that's MY 7k for THIS issue (and for a FEW to come). NEXT! DONALD PEDDER. "I can see in your eyes, you're not so sure about me. This machine is my voice, Please Listen!". G. NUMAN - "Steel And You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Trousdale Subject: WOW!! SO many new members!!! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey guys and gals, I just wanted to pop a quick note in to thank all the new memebers for joining up! This is great! To Mathew - keep up the good work, I enjoy all your posts. To Ziggy - YOU DON't WRITE ME ANYMORE :-( To Donald - Who won the Premiership this year? I hope it was Essendon "Bombers fight at zero feet..." To Derek - Thanks for everything, this place would just not be the same without you - Hell, it just wouldn't BE without you! To all new members - Welcome! Order a T-shirt :-) Later! Robert ------------------------------------------- "I'll be the in to you sane." - G. Webb '94 ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************