Gary Numan Digest Sun, 12 May 96 Volume 1 : Issue 226 Today's Topics: "NU-Zone" URL - further news An Introduction-The Last Message Attention: Neil Mitchell (UK) Berserker confusion (2 msgs) Chris Fidel, Automatic et al. Collectable!!! I added you to the Numan mailing list Merely opinions! More on deletion of CDs from NuWORLD My New Web Site NUMAN ON VIDEO SOUND QUALITY - summary & suggestions for next step Sound Quality Insult SOUND QUALITY update the sound quality issue ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 11 May 96 09:53:08 EDT From: Matthew Holbrook <104047.1030@CompuServe.COM> Subject: "NU-Zone" URL - further news To: Numanews The NU-Zone URL situation has improved rather since my last posting. The following two now work as before: http://www.county.net/machman http://www.netforce.net/machman Additionally, the following one may have a slightly older version of NU-Zone: http://www.ps-consultants.co.uk/machman This rather confusing situation will disappear very soon. NU-Zone should be getting its own domain name any day. Once I've tested this out, I will let the Digest know. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:55:20 -0400 From: CyberHil@aol.com Subject: An Introduction-The Last Message To: numan@cs.uwp.edu My name is Hilary Blake. I live in Santa Monica, California. I am writing this because I feel overwhelmed with gratitude for Gary Numan. I've been an admirer since 1980. Gary played live in L.A. 3 times, and I'm proud to say I was there. I've had a hard time finding "new product" in L.A. This city is not as cool as it thinks it is! I've found a wonderful resource on the Web. "The Lakeshore Alternative Music Service." They've got it all- CD's, videos, vinyl. I've been a member of Garys mailing list for about 3 weeks. If no one minds a new upstart expressing her opinion; I'm truly surprised at the level of criticism Gary receives. Garys music is as much FELT as it is listened to. You listen with your ears and your intellect, but you "feel" it with your "soul." You understand it with your HEART. Gary uses SOUND like no other person in the industry. He's the only artist that understands the power of the stuff. It's the future folks!!!!! I've been in the music business since l983. I was a one hit wonder in NY with a song called Drop Your Pants. (feel free to laugh) Through all of the ups and downs, Garys music made this difficult planet feel like home! I'm not even sure if Gary really understands how powerful and singular his music is. If we lived on an evolved and conscious Earth, everyone would understand what Gary does. We don't. They don't. The fault is not Garys. He's 100 years ahead of his time. His music has a nurturing, uplifting power that is directly connected to the sounds he programs, and the unusual quality of his vocals. People; please stop picking on the tech stuff and listen with a BIGGER HEART!!!!!!!! I've been very ill for about 8 months. I've been told I have about a month left to live. (sounds corny, but it's the truth) Not AIDS, not Cancer; some stupid little bacteria that has settled in my lungs and is not responding well to antibiotics. When the drugs stop working completely, I'm out of here. Gary; you're one of the few things that has made this incarnation worth while. When I'm on the Other Side, I'll "drop in" for a visit. Sounds like the Child And The Ghost to me!!!! Always listening, Hilary Blake P.S. The URL for Lakeshore if anyone is interested. http://www.monroe.edu/LRE/LakeshoreHP.html P.S.S. Please don't drop me off the mailing list. I'm not dead yet!!! http://www.monroe.edu/LRE/LakeshoreHP.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 07:09:48 -0500 From: machman@interaccess.com (Jeff Tolva) Subject: Attention: Neil Mitchell (UK) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey Neil! If you still get the Digest, drop me a note soon. I haven't heard from you in quite a while :-) Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 13:40:57 -0700 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Berserker confusion To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In #225 Amy E Logsdon Warner asked: >A good friend of mine picked up the Berserker cd in London for me last >week (as I haven't been able to get anyone to order it for me here) and I >noticed that it is *exactly* the same as the album (same photos, track >sequence, etc.) so I was wondering if they had not released an updated >version, so to speak when they re-released it awhile back. It was my >impression when the fanfare of the re-release was going on that it was >actually a different cd with the same tracks, I mean it was Berserker, >but updated. Am I mad? Hi Amy, The first time "Berserker" was on CD, it was a limited edition UK Fan Club release (not available to the general public). It contained the extended versions of the songs as originally released on the cassette back in 1984 when the album was first released. The back cover had the artwork from the back of the original 12" album. A new picture appeared as the back of the "booklet" a facial shot of Gary looking down. The 1995 reissue was a general release (not Fan Club only) and contained the same versions of the songs as on the first Fan Club only CD. Because the original artwork had yellowed, Gary used a different picture from the same photo session for the back of the CD case. The original was a full length shot of Gary turned more to the side than in the 1995 release photo. The other pictures are the same as the 1991 CD. Apart from that, the only other differences are the lyrics and writing on the disc are in black on the 1995 release and the insert is flimsier. The vinyl mixes of the "Berserker" album (6 of the 9 songs were extended for the cassette adn subsequenet CDs) have not been on CD yet. I hope that makes it clear for you. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:57:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Amy E Logsdon Warner Subject: Berserker confusion To: Derek Langsford > The first time "Berserker" was on CD, it was a limited edition UK Fan Club > release (not available to the general public). It contained the extended > versions of the songs as originally released on the cassette back in 1984 > when the album was first released. The back cover had the artwork from the > back of the original 12" album. A new picture appeared as the back of the > "booklet" a facial shot of Gary looking down. I guess that I must have a UK version then, because the inside photo is of Gary looking down, not a full length shot of him. hmmmm.. > > I hope that makes it clear for you. Thanks, Derek, I appreciate the response and btw, I agree with you on the quality of sound, even though I've only got a rather lovingly used cd player I can still hear what I've always thought to be distortion. Amy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 96 18:04:38 +0100 From: James Sabin Subject: Chris Fidel, Automatic et al. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi Chris (and fellow members) I think the Automatic album is great! It's light and catchy and cheering. Sometimes that's the kind of music i need to hear. The same goes for the Dramatis stuff. Other times i want darker music etc. Mood drives the music; music drives the mood. whatever gets you thru the night Jim ps i'll buy a cd version if anyone's got one. pps 'bout time Dramatis reformed and released somnething - there were rumours around they would once. ------------------------------ Date: 09 May 96 06:17:00 GMT From: SAVAGE@hazeltine.com (Robert Savage) Subject: Collectable!!! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have a 1981 Gary Numan Chubops Miniature Album. What is this you ask? It is a 3 inch by 3 inch square album cover that had a bubble gum record inside. Sorry ...I ate the gum back in 1981.I believe there are lyrics on the back also! It is the TELECON album! $ 10.00 plus $ 1.00 postage anywhere in the friggin world! Email me if interested. I only have one so hurry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 23:02:43, -0500 From: YHMP24A@prodigy.com (MR MICHAEL L CUSTER) Subject: I added you to the Numan mailing list To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello, my name is Mike Custer, I live in West Bloomfiled Michigan and I have been a Gary Numan fan since early 1980. I got to see him live here is the U.S. on the teletour and the I, Assassin tours in 1980 and 1982. I have a few holes in my Numan record collection but have always tried to get as many of his releases as I can and have just signed up for the official Fan Club so I can order direct from NUMA records, I hope to hear from Beryl soon. My musical interests started out in the 70's with the likes of Elton John (still think he is O.K. now and then) but really took off when I discovered Bowie and Roxy Music. Bowie hasn't interested me a whole lot since he hit it real big back in '82 while I still find some interest in Bryan Ferry's work. I have also grown fond of Queen again (after falling away in the late 70's) since Freddie Mercury died. As an outcrop of being a Numan fan, I have at times gotten into some of the people Gary has worked with such as Ultravox (and John Foxx), Japan and various solo work (especially David Slyvian), Bill Nelson (one album). However, it has been Gary Numan that has been the constant in my musical preference since 1980. This has been hard at times as it is not always easy to find his work here in the states but I have usually been able to find one or two music stores that will carry new Numan releases. I am not much musically inclined myself, I have only been a drummer in Jr. High and High school. I don't care much for many of the newer bands other than a few new songs. However, I still try to listen to what they call modern rock radio to keep up with the latest sounds. I find it interesting that some of the modern bands are citing Gary as an influence. On a air play note, one of our local modern rock radio stations played Cars the other day, after which the DJ spent about a minute saying that Cars was not all Gary has ever done and that he has had many hits singles and albums in Europe since then but now is just a stunt pilot. I felt I should have called in and told him that Gary is still out there making music, some of the best music I think he has done in a long time. One other air play note, I heard Cars being used as an intro on the Michael Reagan (?!) talk radio show the other day. I bet Reagan has never even heard of Numan. Oh well, that's enough for now. I would appreciate any correspondence from any other Numan fans and look foreword to reading further updates on the Gary Numan mailing list. Michael L. Custer yhmp24a@prodigy.com also at: 104330,431@compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 11:23:18 -0700 From: tlwalter@accs.net (Troy Walters) Subject: Merely opinions! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello all... This is sure to piss off several, if not most, but here's my two cents worth (convert to currency of your choice): This business about the Outland recorded material as being sub-standard is a load of crap. So someone has analyzed the signals and it doesn't measure up. What a crock! Pink Noise can be used to establish flat response -- but just because it looks great on the spectrum analyzer doesn't make it sound good! If you don't like what you hear, listen to something else. Or, use those knobs for Treble, Mid and Bass -- if available. I find that, often, the best experience is all adjustments centered; no plus, no minus -- listen to it as intended by the people who recorded it. BTW, there are distinct differences in equipment on the listeners end that you may wish to consider. Pioneer sounds different than Technics which sound different than Yamaha or Carver or Denon or Mcintosh, etc. Music is subjective and NO ONE can deny that fact! Just because one person dislikes a song does not mean it is not good or that someone else would not like it. A Country "song" may invoke dance in one person, but iritates me to the thought of breaking shit! It's personal. It's subjective. It's not something you can prove or disprove. "This is the greatest song of all time!" is an opinion, not fact. "This is the biggest selling song of all time." if based on actual sales IS fact. There are distinct differences between the two. Before I go any farther, let me make it clear that Cry, The Clock Said is -- to me -- probably THE most powerful song I have ever heard. It invokes a level of emotion in me I can not describe, nor share with anyone. Nor do I care to share it with anyone. I listen to it for purely selfish, personal reasons -- as with ALL the music I listen to. (I am also a huge RUSH fan). I have yet to communicate with a single soul who reacts to Cry, The Clock Said as I do, nor do I expect to. This is great. I like it that way. (Flame on with your sophomoric (that is to say -- immature) remarks. Your opinions of me are of no significance to me and will not change who I am, how I think or what I feel...) Now, concerning these "beliefs" (by some) that the musical quality is deficient on some of the Outland recorded material: Has it occured to anyone that what you hear is how Gary intended for you to hear it? What the fuck is wrong with you anal retentive, nit-picking people? I listen to Gary Numan music because I like it. I enjoy it. Granted, not EVERY song ever done by Gary affects me positively -- some conjure up less attractive emotions -- but THAT's the beauty of it all. Someone, somewhere enjoys the songs I don't, but may hate the songs I like most. It's part of what makes us individuals. Duh! And, if Gary churned out the same-sounding grind time-after-time-after-time, I doubt any of us would consider ourselves fans! Gary does what he wants at the time. You can either enjoy it for what it is -- or don't. However, IF there where reason for concern, I'm sure Gary will listen and do all in his power to eliminate the source of the problem -- as he has assured us all in Digest #225! If, for a single moment, you believe that your "discoveries" of inconsistency in recorded material by Gary are proof that he's doing something wrong -- I hope you never become a person of power in any field, as you are obviously affected by some "God-Complex" and the belief that you are superior in some way. (Dangerous thinking? -- not my call, but I have the freewill to disassociate with such people) READ Gary's reply to Derek's e-mail. There is an explaination to the concerns brought up. He seems willing to listen to constructive criticism, but I've read some brutal flames in this digest that -- personnaly -- the Digest can do without. Granted, Gary wishes that EVERYONE would love everything he does. But, I'm sure he realizes that will not happen. I simply hope Gary remains true to what Gary wishes to do. He amazes me completely and never disappoints me. He is, after all, human and an individual -- as am I. I do not expect to love everything he does, nor does he expect us all to enjoy everything -- I'm sure. To those of you who send your "flames" to the digest, consider this: I dispise the Country "music" genre as a whole, but I don't get Country "music" digests and e-mail derogatory messages, simply because I don't like it. What's the point -- unless you're simply a "shit-stirrer" and have some infintile need for attention! Grow up! It comes down to this: Music is a subjective experience. Enoy it -- or don't! There is no need to attempt to tear apart Gary -- or anyone -- because you "believe" something is wrong. I suppose if you believe the Mona Lisa should have a smile, you'll do something to correct that problem too! HELLO! Get a grip people... But, if you have a concern and wish to bring it up, Gary seems more than willing to listen and reply -- and if needed, take action to correct the problem. To all those who enjoy Gary's work for what it is, I apologize for my outburst. I was under the impression that this Digest is a forum for FANS! If I wanted to read "bad" critiques of Gary's work, I'd read any number of music magazines written by idiots who have absolutely no fucking clue about anything and merely base an "opinion" on a single listen -- IF that! Personally, I enjoy what Gary is doing -- living! And I enjoy his sharing of whatever he feels like sharing. If I need something else, I have a life of my own -- I'll manage... Man! Do I feel better!!!!!!!!!! Please Push No More... -- Troy L. Walters tlwalter@accs.net -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... (c) http://www.accs.net/users/tlwalter/idgaf.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:28:38 -0700 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: More on deletion of CDs from NuWORLD To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In #225 Steve in Florida posted his frustration that Babylon 3 was out of print. I took the liberty of forwarding Steve's concerns to Gary and he had this to say (among other more colourful things): >I understand the irritation that the Babylon 3 deletion may have caused as >I have been saying on the site that all the CD's listed would be available >for the forseeable future. However, the long delay in getting the credit >card service on-line was not forseen, nor was the demand for the CD's from >UK fans in the wake of the 'Cars' success and the Premier tour. Everything >has moved up a gear in terms of sales and interest and the very low run >Babylon series may be just the beginning of a whole series of stock >problems. >Only 500 were pressed of each Babylon CD to begin with because the series >was planned and begun long before the Internet and the Digest were even >heard of so we did not anticipate any extra sales. >I will know about demand for re-pressing the same way as I did about the >Berserker album and the same way I know about the Fury and Strange Charm >albums. I know because a lot of people write in asking for them over a >period of time strangely enough. If few people ask I gauge the interest as >being low, if a lot of people ask I gauge the interest as being high. So, if you want any items on NuWORLD, get moving and if some get deleted, email or write and voice your support for a repressing (email is possible via NuWORLD or to Tony directly tonywebb@numan.co.uk as given on the Premier Hits CD) They need to justify a pressing run of 500 for a new run. Gary has been burnt before with overruns (he still has 3000 Berserker 12" singles in his garage and 600 of the 1000 Sacrifice Calendars that were made in his hall closet). That's why he is very careful with the number of CDs pressed. Someone said that only 1000 or 1500 1995 "Berserker" CDs were pressed. I've seen 4 and have one. I suspect a good proportion of that run made its way out of the UK. So don't hang around waiting to get this stuff. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 09 May 96 07:23:00 GMT From: SAVAGE@hazeltine.com (Robert Savage) Subject: My New Web Site To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Check out my Web Page with a very strange photo.......with more strange images to come...... and links to concerts I have photographed with my photos. http://www.geocities.com/broadway/1595 ps-set up your own FREE web page at www.geocities.com Gary,..What do ya think? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:25:39 -0600 (MDT) From: LISA A DIEDRICH Subject: NUMAN ON VIDEO To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (n fan list) ARE THERE ANY OTHER NUMANOIDS OUT THERE IN CYBERSPACE WHO WOULD LIKE TO TRADE NUMAN VIDEO? PLEASE EMAIL ME!!! I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO ADD MORE GARY NUMAN TO MY VIDEO COLLECTION - ESP. FROM THE LATE 70'S - 1981. THANKS ALL!!!!!!!! LISA ldiedric@du.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 03:35:16 -0400 From: thobois@mindspring.com Subject: SOUND QUALITY - summary & suggestions for next step To: numan@cs.uwp.edu The only 2 Numan albums on the "questionable sound quality" list that I own are "Berserker" - 1995 and "Sacrifice (Ext)." As a (Fucking) American audio engineer, I can honestly say that I find nothing out of place with the engineering. "Sacrifice" is a dark, moody album and would sound silly with a bright mix. "Berserker" sounds like most of the synthpop CD's that I have from the mid-80's. They both sound better than the thin and over-bright US version of "Metal Rhythm." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 04:50:16 -0400 From: Scorbie@aol.com Subject: Sound Quality Insult To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I must say I was shocked at the audacity 'we' had to show concern for Gary's production. I think all we've achieved is making him more paranoid about the standards of his music. This subject makes me wonder what kind of stereo systems you all have. If we expect a huge MTV production to the likes of Green Day then that's what we'll get. Look at Machine & Soul. The production was perfect. I heard no 'distortion' that Derek points out. The album just sucked musically (apart from the ballads, of course). It should be obvious that this is the sound he went for. 'Absolution' was picked out for being poorly produced. All he did was jack up the bass on the vocal track. Sure it was a little too much, but I assumed it was what he intended. Outland was a mess, but any time you re-do a song four times that can happen. The Dream Corrosion CD sounded as though it were mixed to provoke a 'live' bootleg feeling. Compair it to the video. The video is very crisp and just as good as Dark Light. I think we're getting a little too comfortable with our contact to Gary. I know I did. :-) I think we should let him alone on his current trend and relish it. The whole point is it's "heavy" attitude and I believe that's what he's trying to accomplish musically as well. But now I fear you've ruined it. Hell, he even claimed to have lost sleep on it! So, for those of you who are complaining: Get a good stereo, crank the bass, cut back on the mid-range, crank the treble and most of all...turn it up. Scorbie (Aaron Hannum, Chicago) Oh yeah!, hey Joey, sorry about those Flames! I guess one cup was enough. :-) Also, the idea for a Numan sound clip contest is cool! My friend Deanna did the same thing last month. It was great! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:58:05 -0700 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: SOUND QUALITY update To: numan@cs.uwp.edu No volunteers to collate info on this yet. I really do not have time to do this myself due to other commitments. I've already told Gary it could take a month or so to come to some conclusions. Anyway Keith Dawe emailed me suspecting the mastering and he made a very good point. > Judging from your Post-Numan-Comment-On-Sound-Quality wrap-up, >and my own listening experiments, I would venture that it's the >mastering. Even Gary himself has admitted to relying on these guys, >although hw can't be too certain of their expertise. And since the >compilations have a better sound, it's obviously not the mixing (the >studio tracks arewell recorded and can be excellent if mastered properly). I am starting to wonder if this is the problem. I briefly checked out my Receiver Records compilations last night and did a few comparisons. Both the compilations were pressed by MPO in France (and I assumed mastered by them too). Virtually all the tracks I compared sounded better to much better on the compilations. Track on comp other source manufacturer of other source ------------- ------------ ---------------------------- Here Am I Babylon 1 Disctronics UK She Cries " " " In a Glass House Babylon 6/Emotion CD5 Mayking Records/PDO UK Berserker Berserker Disctronics/Mayking Records (there are other tracks I need to compare but didn't get to) If MPO/Receiver can make excellent sounding CDs of these tracks, then I would suggest that the source material is OK and that it is the CD mastering process that is causing the sound quality variations and flaws. And it seems that none of the UK manufacturers are doing a great job. PDO UK are perhaps doing the best job of the UK manufacturers. Their disc are most consistant and not far off what MPO have done. It may take a bit to confirm this. We need to know exactly the process of going from Gary's DAT tape to CD pressing. I don't think it is the pressing itself, digital data is digital data, but it may be the prep of that digital data for the CD master from the DAT. Gary says it gets re EQ'd and manipulated before final transfer. This could be the weak link. Does anyone have the German compilation with "Seed of a Lie" on it? If so, how does it sound compared to the Sacrifice version? This could tell us a lot. Any thoughts, input? Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:45:43 -0400 From: Angelzero@aol.com Subject: the sound quality issue To: numan@cs.uwp.edu in digest v.225, derek brought up the sound quality issue again, including his post to gary (in which my take on the subject was aliased as "poster 1"), gary's thorough reply, and derek's summarisation of the issue. in an effort to further pursue this, i'm writing to add: although i was happy to lend my $.02, i myself have never particularly detected any suboptimal performance on any of gary's discs (within the context of sound quality). maybe it's because of my too-loud punk days, or that in art school my was walkman was surgically implanted on my head with the volume was soldered at 10, but my hearing just isn't what it used to be or what it's supposed to be. but the recordings in question all sound fine to me, so i'm afraid i can't help identify or isolate which albums sound better or worse than any others. take care, all. end of line. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************