Gary Numan Digest Thu, 16 May 96 Volume 1 : Issue 227 Today's Topics: "NU-Zone" URL Digest Fury plus other stuff late comments on the Fury album Nash update (2 msgs) Numan Sound Clip Contest Continues PDO CDs Replicas album as a single CD version SOUND QUALITY - rebuttal of criticisms Sound quality and all that jazz strangeness The sound quality issue... Warriors / The Fury Tour live videos ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 15 May 96 10:46:04 EDT From: Matthew Holbrook <104047.1030@CompuServe.COM> Subject: "NU-Zone" URL To: numanews Further to recent updates, the NU-Zone domain name has now been approved. In future you should be able to find it as: http://www.nuzone.org.uk There will be no need for any numan.html reference. The various other URLs will still work but this is the only guaranteed up-to-date version of NU-Zone so change your bookmarks today. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:46:02 +0100 From: bs4babdp@cr47c.staffs.ac.uk (YOUR OWN PERSONAL JESUS) Subject: Digest To: NUMAN@cs.uwp.edu Hi, my name is Brian Timothy-Parkes and i would like to jkoin the Numan gigest. My e-mail is BS4BABDP@CR47C.STAFFS.AC.UK Thanks, <<>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 19:29:10 -0500 (CDT) From: cory nyberg Subject: Fury plus other stuff To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Fellow fans, First, all I can say about Troy Walters post is: Decaffeinated, maybe? 'Nuff said. Second, while on the topic of sound quality, although I have nothing new to add to the discussion I wanted to at least express my view that there is something funky with the sound. I would completely agree with Derek on the discs he mentioned. I never had a problem with recording any of Gary's CD's or albums until I hit Outland. I had to crank the high end down and the bass up. Machine+Soul I never did get to sound right. I messed around with my EQ for ever and I was never happy with the recording. Granted, at that time I had just purchased a new tape deck but I still have no problems with any other disc I own let alone Numan's. I can't even get that CD to sound good just playing it. I'm not even going to talk about Dream Corrosion. Finally, I can't let the slamming of the Fury to continue. I, of course, would never flame another person for their musical tastes and respect the opinions of most people in this digest ;-) I just LOVE the Fury. It probably comes from the fact that I am a complete synthesizer\keyboard\electro junkie. And, although I can be fairly picky in this area, I love dance music as well. In fact, my friend, who I brainwashed to love Numan, chose Miracles as his favorite Numan song ever. He said that nobody writes a chorus like Numan. I'm not going to gush over the lyrics or the image or any other aspect of this masterpiece other than the music. I, also, am usually at odds with the rest of Numandom when it comes to what I find the best and worst, other than Berserker. In my case I think it is because I approach Numan from a purely music and sound standpoint. If I made my own recordings (which, unfortunately for those that can hear, I am trying to do) I would make it SOUND like the Fury. Vocals and lyrics and backing vocals may be different but the music is what I want to acheive. I think I just love the PPG as I also really enjoy the first album by Propaganda which used a ton of PPG effects and sounds, including the drums. Anyway, the Fury rocks, IMHO. Can't wait for next month's topic. Cory Nyberg Cory@netins.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:38:02 -0400 From: Subject: late comments on the Fury album To: numan@cs.uwp.edu It is late but here are a few comments on the Fury album: Although it was only the 2nd Numa album for Gary, The Fury marks the beginning of the second half of Gary's career. The preceding Berserker album wrapped up what he had been working on from 1979-1984, drawing upon the best musical ideas from the Pleasure Principle, Telekon, Dance, I Assassin, and Warriors. Gary "ditched" analog synths with the Fury album, and moved into a more layered, more complex feel musically, and a more "human" direction lyrically. The Fury reminded me of Bryan Ferry's work of the same time period, a little bit, but the Fury is much more aggressive than Ferry's "Boys and Girls" album. It was also, as far as I know, the first Numan album released on CD! I won't pick apart the songs, but the overall feel of the album seemed more upbeat. Gary's talent for musical arrangement really comes through on The Fury, but The Fury's "problem" really stems from the fact that it follows the (immensely wonderful) Berserker album! Thus, looking back, The Fury also marks the beginning of a long period where (and this is only my opinion, so don't get mad) Gary made albums that were 50% pretty strong songs, 50% okay songs, but with no real breakthrough singles. If it had been me, I think I would have released "Tricks" or "This Disease" as a single instead of "Your Fascination". That's just my two bob. BTW, still got some Numan vinyl I'm parting with. Check out http://www.shentel.net/nutmusic/tony/tony.html for a link to the list. Thanks, Tony R. Boies Tony R. Boies - http://www.shentel.net/nutmusic/tony/tony.html Check out the Nut Music Home Page: http://www.shentel.net/nutmusic/nutmain.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:12:37 -0400 From: "Richard V. Paiement" Subject: Nash update To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Phil Marsh was asking about Nash the Slash... >Can anyone fill me in on any info concerning Nash? > >I have 4 albums of his and some singles, but have no idea what >he did after his American Band-Ages album. I know prior to being >Nash he was in a band (FM ?) and his real name is Jeff Plewman (and >not "Nashville Thebodiah Slasher" as he once told "Smash Hits" >magazine!), but nothing more. [Sorry if I bore some of you with the following, as I've detailed Nash's work here once or twice before, but this will be a very short version of the story for Phil and any new subscribers. I've forwarded to Phil a more detailed biography/discography of Nash and FM. Others also interested in this should request it by e-mailing me. Unfortunately, I have not yet updated it since November 1993.] Actually, Jeff Plewman has been known as Nash the Slash even before he formed FM with Cameron Hawkins in 1976. In the early 70s, he was part of a band called Breathless and recorded the song Slasher. I don't know if he was known as Nash back then! In 1976, Nash started playing with bassist/keyboardist Cameron Hawkins and they decided to form the band FM. As a trio with Martin Deller on drums/percussion, they released their first album (Black Noise) in 1978. This album has recently been reissued on CD. Unfortunately, the CD mastering was done from vinyl as the master tapes could not be found anywhere. IMO the resulting audio does suffer... I find that my vinyl copy sound better than the CD! After this first album, Nash left FM to pursue his solo career, and both Nash and FM (with Ben Mink of k.d. lang fame) continued to record and tour separately, during which period Nash released a number of LPs, EPs, and singles. Nash and FM's paths crossed in 1984. The reformed FM with original line-up recorded Con-Test (1985). After Martin Deller's departure and the addition of two blond mop-heads (drummer and guitarist), FM with Nash released a very forgettable LP in 1987 (Tonight) and quickly disbanded after a short tour. Nash forged on with his music, doing some movie soundtracks (Road Kill, Highway 61) and the odd concert around his home town of Toronto. With the reissue of Black Noise on CD in 1994, the once again reformed FM with original line-up went back on the road, and a subsequent CD (RetroActive - Archives Volume 1) was released in the Fall of 1995, which includes old favourites and new material recorded live during a Fall 1994 concert, as well as some CD-ROM video and audio tid-bits (it's a mixed audio CD & CD-ROM). That's about it. ********************************************************************** Richard V. Paiement, P.Eng. Internet: richard.paiement@crc.doc.ca Research Engineer Web: http://www.crc.doc.ca Radio Broadcast Systems Fax: +1 613 993 9950 Communications Research Centre, Ottawa (CANADA) K2H 8S2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:36:27 -0400 From: "Richard V. Paiement" Subject: Nash update To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Phil Marsh: You were asking about Nash the Slash and I sent you detailed biography/discography files on Nash and FM, but... >421 Host bpmf.ac.uk not found for mailer ddn. >550 ... Host unknown E-mail me with your real address. ********************************************************************** Richard V. Paiement, P.Eng. Internet: richard.paiement@crc.doc.ca Research Engineer Web: http://www.crc.doc.ca Radio Broadcast Systems Fax: +1 613 993 9950 Communications Research Centre, Ottawa (CANADA) K2H 8S2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 96 02:57:45 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Numan Sound Clip Contest Continues To: "Gary Numan" Have you tested your Numan Knowledge yet? C'mon down to: http://www.netway.ab.ca/numanoid/contest/index.html Object: identify the songs that are contained in each of two sound clips. It's that simple. For members without web access, email me for instructions on how to play via email. Note: you'll need to be able to receive email file attaches in excess of one megabyte (there's a total of about 1.7 megs to send). Scorbie: cool! I'll have to talk with Deana, I'd like to know more about what she's done. I ran a few similar contests back on my old "Telekon BBS" before I took it down, although back then I wasn't editing the sounds together, and I was including vocals. Too easy that way. :-) I wish I'd known she was doing this, maybe we coulda teamed up and shared some ideas. Oh, and GO AVALANCHE GO! ;-) /--------------------------------------------------------- / Joey Lindstrom / numanoid@netway.ab.ca / lindstrj@cadvision.com / http://www.netway.ab.ca/numanoid/wwwebb.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:06:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Mesplay Subject: PDO CDs To: Numan List Derek, You mentioned that PDO seems to be doing the best job of producing/mastering the Numan discs. (I suspect you said they were best at something slightly different, but I up and deleted the Digest before taking notes--oops!). I wanted to bring up a problem that many of us on a different list (wsd-l, for fans of World Serpent Distribution artists) are having with our PDO discs: bronzing. This is a gradual process of decay where the edges of a disc become a mottled bronze color and data begins to disappear from the disc. In extreme cases, all that's left is static. Without wanting to cause a stampede as you all pound towards your CD racks to check your PDO Numan discs, I am curious to know if anybody has noticed any bronzing? This information would be very valuable to the folks on wsd-l. (BTW, they are lovely people who are even more minutiae-oriented than Digesters, if you can believe it! ;>) PDO has been very good about replacing bad World Serpent discs, if it ever comes down to bronze Numan discs; I suspect that only WSD pressings were affected, though. Carry on! -- Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 22:18:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: na468@fim.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Dietrich) Subject: Replicas album as a single CD version To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello altogether, in one of the last digest Paddy (paddygav@magic1.org) mentioned to have seen an own Replicas CD (not a double album CD) !!! It's true, here in germany I saw such CDs at least at three different store in this town am living (nueremberg!). I havent bought it because it looks as much interesting (you all know the sleeve of replicas), that it hits everyones eyes when looking at this direction. So I hope it will interest also non numanoids. But it is very cheep (about 5 13DM - 5pounds). The distributor is something called MCImusic and the CD-no. is MUSCD 509. It is also available as cassette ( MUSMC 509 ). I remember a compilation called "Electricity" which includes garys AFE and WAG (We are glass :-) ). And this compilation was also made by this distributor. It may be possible that this is a german distributor. The replicas CD is mad under license of beggars banquet also very official. I think gary must know this CD production?!? The back of the CD sleave (couldn't look inside because were factory covered) displays following: "booklet includes new liner notes by steve malins of vox magazine" I dont know a "vox magazine" (do you?). We have a TV Channel called VOX but I dont think there is any relation! That for that, M a r k u s -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:05:23 -0700 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: SOUND QUALITY - rebuttal of criticisms To: numan@cs.uwp.edu A few subscribers posted their opinions about my raising the CD sound quality issue with Gary. Sentiments were expressed that I/we need to show perspective, that there was no issue, that it was insulting to criticise and that we should let Gary do what he wants as he knows what's best for his work. I completely agree it would be folly to second guess Gary's choice of song, instrument, and mix as that is what makes his music so unique. Granted it was hard not to between 1991 & 1993 but most now respect his choices under the circumstances. Gary's music is why we are all here, right? I disagree on most of the other points made though. Without wanting to start another off-topic flame-fest I feel I need to rebutt those comments. Unlike others I will try to be reasoned and level headed. 1. No issue? If it is not an issue, why does it come up frequently in the Digest and in email? If I were merely spitting in the wind, I don't think I would hear anything about it from others. But several people have responded, supporting the idea that something soemtimes goes awry during the process that Gary's uses to get his musical ideas onto the format which the general public buys. So, to us, it is an issue. Maybe some don't have as discerning an ear as others. I have many albums that sound wonderful on my system including different types and styles of music. Most of Gary's albums sound good to great but others do not. And more recently the variation has indicated there is a continuing problem somewhere. 2. Criticising I hope you noticed that I raised the issue with Gary in the most polite way I could. I could have said "the sound on some of your CDs suck, get your butt in gear or get someone in who can do it properly", but I didn't because that is rude and insulting. This was not criticism for criticism's sake. The goal was to bring something to Gary's attention so that the problem can be resolved and Gary's future releases will sound excellent no matter what mood he tries to put over in his music. This is called constructive criticism. I like to think the Digest is a place where we can discuss this sort of thing and from which I can forward info that should be of concern or interest to Gary. Do we want Gary to be in a vacuum about issues that directly concern him? 3. Gary knows what's best for his music. I don't question Gary's choices for the musical content, as specified in my email to him. I do disagree with the contention that Gary is in complete control of what his music sounds like on release. "Dream Corrosion" is the prime example. The video soundtrack apparently sounds excellent, whereas the CD sounds muffled. So which did Gary think was best? He was not even aware of the difference until it was brought to his attention. Gary is not the only individual involved in the process. After a DAT leaves his studio, it gets re-equalized for vinyl, cassette and CD before masters for those formats are made. I suspect this is where some of the problems are occuring and it has nothing to do with what Gary thinks an album should sound like. So, I think this is a real issue, that if there is a real problem Gary appreciates being made aware of it, and that it is quite possible that the problems are not necessarily because Gary wants it that way but are a result of post-studio manipulations by others over whom Gary has little or no control. Stating "if we don't like his output we should listen to something else" is silly. We really like Gary's music. Hell, I started the Digest in 1991 before "Outland" came out and have stuck it out through "Outland" and "Machine" and "Soul". Would I still be here if I didn't like his music? Please don't question my committment. What we are trying to do is to eliminate any factors that can make his recordings sound sub-par despite the muiscal content. The result of this effort may be for "Exile" to be stunning in content and sound, something that "Sacrifice" didn't quite achieve. I think that would be in Gary's as well as our interests. I will voice your concerns to Gary to show him that not everyone agrees with this issue being reaided with him. But I personally feel it important to make sure that everything is done to make sure Gary produces excellent sounding material. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 96 02:51:19 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Sound quality and all that jazz To: "Gary Numan" In regards to the running down Derek has received in regards to having reported to Gary the concerns that have been expressed here regarding sound quality of albums from about Outland onward: I find I agree with several points on both sides of the argument. One problem I do have is: why is the argument arising only now? I mean c'mon, virtually every post since this debate began was of the "yes I agree" variety... but when Derek decides to bring the issue to Gary, the "I think the sound is just fine" crowd jumps all over him. I really think we're killing the messenger. It's *OUR* message: don't blame him for it. We're getting way too personal here. I find I agree with 100% of what Derek had to say to Gary, and I think Gary's response was much more positive than perhaps anybody expected: it seems he too agrees with at least some of the arguments. I also think that we can push this too far: one can easily misinterpret an INTENTIONAL sound for an INFERIOR, UNINTENTIONAL sound. Furthermore, we definitely have to be careful that we don't get too used to our relative closeness with Gary. It's fun and it's useful but we can do harm with it. And it can harm us. Believe me, it can. In the long haul, however, I gotta come down on Derek's side here. I think some people have really missed the point. Yes, we can improve the sound quality by fiddling with the treble, bass, and other assorted doodads on our stereos. But no matter how you slice it, we're often (not always but often) having to do this to COVER UP inferior sound quality. Inferior sound quality is inferior sound quality, and that's that. Nobody said that they weren't going to buy Gary's albums anymore because of this issue (at least not that I know of): Derek were attempting to offer CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM (on behalf of all of us) that might help improve future products. That's all. Nobody was running Gary down or slagging him off in any way. Thankfully, Gary seems to have taken it EXACTLY as intended. Oddly enough, some of you did not. Some excellent counterpoints have been made: for example, with Sacrifice, the mix is intentionally "dark" and thus heavy on the low end and not "bright". It's not "bright" we're looking for. It's "clear". Sacrifice is muddy, and Sacrifice Extended is muddier (which Gary admits). Telekon is dark and is NOT muddy, it's clear as a bell. This isn't a question of competence. What we've said is that we THINK that the sound that reaches our ears is not the sound that Gary intended for us. There are literally hundreds of minor problems that can cause that, some of which happen AFTER the master tape leaves Gary's hands. And even *IF* the problem is in Gary's studio... look, in an ideal world, Gary would have a hired engineer and possibly a producer (working under Gary's direction) who would handle all the niggly details with Gary's approval and feedback. This isn't an ideal world, so Gary does the best damned job he can with what he's got. And that job for the most part is bloody excellent. All we're suggesting is that he look for ways to take it up one more level. There is always room for improvement. I hate to disillusion you, but Gary Anthony James Webb is not perfect and has never claimed to be. You're not perfect either, and neither am I. All we can ever do is work towards coming as CLOSE TO perfection as we possibly can. We've told Gary that we believe there may be a problem somewhere. Gary's basically told us that it's possible (not likely, just possible) that we might have a point, and that he's going to investigate, which shows him to be both professional and genuinely concerned. What he's intimated is this: if he finds that there is a problem, he'll work to improve it. If he doesn't, he'll ignore us. End of story. What he also seems (to me) to indicate is this: he's far happier that we've presented our case in this manner, rather than sending him nastigrams saying "geez Gary, Sacrifice sounds like shit, what the **** are you doing in there, you cretin?" Nobody wants to hear that. Nor should he, from US. If improvements are not possible, well, it's not the end of the world. I'll still buy his albums and I'll definitely be heading back over for the next tour. Please, let's lighten up a little on this. Thanks for listening. /--------------------------------------------------------- / Joey Lindstrom / numanoid@netway.ab.ca / lindstrj@cadvision.com / http://www.netway.ab.ca/numanoid/wwwebb.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 16:12:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Erin Tavano Subject: strangeness To: numan@cs.uwp.edu although i'll say it in a shorter fashion, i've never listened to a numan album and gone, hmm, too much midrange, or whatever. not that i think good engineering is unimportant, but i guess it's been good enough for me. or maybe i just have lousy speakers. but i suggest that if the song had impact for you the first time, to listen to it twenty times and only then progressively notice sound impurities, is unfair. you get used the song and nitpick. and then bring it to gary? talk about abuse of privilege. erin ps. brevity is the soul of wit. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:27:41 -0400 From: MidgeUre@aol.com Subject: The sound quality issue... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I feel I must voice my concerns over the recent notice to Gary about the sound quality of his cds. I have to say that I am a little ticked and rather embarrassed to have had my name (as a member of this digest) lumped in with these complaints. I have never had any problem with the sound quality of any of Gary's productions. As with any music I listen to, if something seems to sound a little different, I realize that it is quite probably what the artist intended. I would much rather hear the music the way Gary intended it to sound versus the way some (arm-chair, monday-morning, weekend-warrior, (insert your favorite here)) engineer thinks that I should here it. What arrogant presumption! I am fully capabale of tweaking my own system if I want Sacrifice-light, thank you. I think the "muddy" sound of that album helps immensely to create a feeling of inescapable dread and suffocation that is reinforced by the lyrics. This whole issue reminds me of people that insist on watching colorized old movies, or people who can't handle letterboxed video. They sacrifice really experiencing what the artist intended for the sake of having everything fit into a nice, comfortable, familiar package. What crap! I hope Gary forgets about this interference into his artistry (and lets face it, that's what it is) and continues to make his music the way he wants to, lest his next album be titled "Real Sacrifice". Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 09:39:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Subject: Warriors / The Fury Tour live videos ? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Does anyone have any bootleg videos of the '83 or '85 tour at all ? Also, the Witchman remixes of Cars are awesome - so, so , so good...pretty much drum n bass for the 1st one, and its almost laid back and real cool, and the 2nd one has the vocals looped round and round over and over again, which is pretty hypnotic.... Andy ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************