Gary Numan Digest Thu, 15 Aug 96 Volume 1 : Issue 253 Today's Topics: (2 msgs) Address change CARS Chelmsford Gig GN discography update as of 8/10/96 GOAWFC Tribute Tape Lookling for pre '81 video footage newbie intro Newman Newman Auction Our mutual friend Quick to judge, quick to anger Sacrifice Trade Strange Charm (2 msgs) Strange Charm - Derek's comments unsubscribe Vids White Stingray ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:05:52 +0100 From: stefano@hynet.it (Stefano Meneghetti) Subject: To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Would you consider to play gigs in small but facionable clubs around the world? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 20:45:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Douglas T. Gibson" Subject: To: numan@cs.uwp.edu unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:43:46 -0400 From: MidgeUre@aol.com Subject: Address change To: numan@cs.uwp.edu A quick personal note: My email address is changing from midgeure@aol.com to carlsond@dpg.devry.edu Anyone who cares, please note. B-bye. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 19:28:51 -0400 From: Numanfan1@aol.com Subject: CARS To: Numan@cs.uwp.edu In regards to the video for $100, sorry don't see it. I have been a fan for 17 years now and used to collect everything, but I would never pay that. I actually stopped collecting since I have moved to the country. I heard the old "Cars" being used for backround music on an advertisment for "AutoSite". A www location for used cars. This seems to be Gary's legacy, car commercials till the next millenium. Here are a couple of questions for the next ask Gary'. 1. On your touring principle tape you came back on stage and stated that "It was a bit different than last night". I'm wondering how bad was the previous night? What did they audience do (Or didn't do?) 2. Does it really cost that much to bring a small tour to the U.S? It seems that there are plenty of bands that put on small tours here in the U.S. why coulnd't you? (after all, if it wasn't for us yanks you would be singing in German and they name Numan wouldn't be anything special) 3. The overall theme on "Sacrifice" seems to be hinged on the thought that you or somebody you know has a deadly disease, like aids, any connection here? 4. Do you still live in Virginia Water? 5. If you could go back in time would you keep touring instead of "retiring" after the Teletour? 6. Do you believe in god? Just a few pondering thoughts from and old fan. Does anyone know where I can find either Jeff Encinas of Mike Hash from the "Friends of Numan" fan club? "I'm in outland" Numanfan1@AOL.com NuRuss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 15:53:00 BST From: Matthew Tamea Subject: Chelmsford Gig To: "'Numannews'" If there's anyone who wants to go to the Chelmsford gig but doesn't have a ticket then I have a mate who can no longer go. If you want the ticket it'll be 29 quid which is the ticket plus booking fee jobbie. If you're interested then e-mail me direct before end of play Friday. Cheers - Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 07:37:43 -0500 From: machman@interaccess.com (Jeff Tolva) Subject: GN discography update as of 8/10/96 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello all! I've made another batch of changes and additions to the Gary Numan discography as of August 10, 1996. The complete discography can be viewed in Joey Lindstrom's Aircrash Bureau website or downloaded from Dave Datta's UWP archives. The most noteworthy additions since the May 1996 version are that of the Babylon series CDs and the Radial Pair Sountrack CD (both from Gary's Salvation Records) curtousy of Derek Langsford. If you want a copy of the discography and are have trouble downloading it from the UWP archives, send me an e-mail and I'll send you a copy of it. It's in Courier font and about 84 printed pages - so just be aware :-) IMO, it does contain a VERY complete list of Gary's music from all the years. All the best! Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:38:50 -0500 From: machman@interaccess.com (Jeff Tolva) Subject: GOAWFC Tribute Tape To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I just received my copy of the NEC (Northwest Electro-Industrial Coalition) tribute to Gary Numan called "Ghost Of A White Face Clown" in the mail the other day and I have to say overall I'm quite impressed with the first couple of listens to it. For those who might not know about this tribute tape, it's put out by NEC from Washington state (US) and the emphasis is definately on the Electro-Industrial part as far as the covers are concerned. Therefore, it's quite different from the Techno Army cover album. About half the covers are electronic in nature and the other half are more industrial in sound. Some of the bands even use female vocals in part (as Gary did in his original tracks) to more closely resemble the original tracks. The "Warriors" track even has a funky slap bass edge which reminded me alot of the original track. All covers are of the original songs and are NOT "interpretations" of Gary's tracks. The bands in some cases have rearranged the original lyrics a bit, but they are still Gary's lyrics for most all of it. The bands and tracks are: Offworld...................Down In The Park Silence....................Bleed Kill Switch Klick..........Are 'Friends' Electric? Einer Ask & The Same.......Praying To The Aliens Jon The Beloved............Warriors Nocturnal..................Listen To The Sirens Henrys Life In Hell........Change Your Mind Schweigen Projekt..........This Is New Love Bytet......................Cars Faith & Disease............Down In The Park Here's what I know about it: the compliation is available on cassette tape only and total running time is about 50 minutes. All songs were recorded by the bands in their home studios or at local studios in the Seattle area. The sound quality is decent for a cassette and NEC took the master DAT to a studio and enhanced and mastered to normalized everything. There is an overall finished sound to the tape because of this. Of course, some tracks are more polished than others, but all in all, it's quite good IMO and I would recommend buying it to anyone who likes cover tunes of their favorite artists. Even the color cassette cover looks good and uses the more popular images from Berserker in a slightly different arrangement. It's available for $6 USD plus $2 USD p/h at: NEC 220 Newport Way NW #E40 Issaquah, WA 98027 phone: (206) 233-8420 Before anyone asks -- I am NOT getting a commission or anything for making this commentary on this tribute tape. As a matter of fact, I'm getting absolutely NOTHING for it, but I do think it's a good deal for those who like stuff like this. Since I sent my money in early, I thought I'd just share my review of it with the Digest. It's only my .02 worth :-) Just the same, let them know that "The Machman" sent you, if you decide to order it -:) If anyone has further question on this tribute tape, you can e-mail me directly or Mike Ditmore (mditmor1@ix.netcom.com) whose associated somehow with this compilation tape. Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 09:11:00 PDT From: Clive Jones Subject: Lookling for pre '81 video footage To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hi Chaps The subject heading says it all - I still would love a (PAL) copy of "The Touring Principle" plus any interview, concert, show appearance footage prior to 1982. Copies are okay as long as they're are in PAL. Has anyone yet put together a video of this sort for themselves?(clips/excerpts). Let me know your price - I'll pay postage too. Thanks in advance. Clive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:36:12 -1000 From: "Mark Stanton, Industrial Design & Visualization" Subject: newbie intro To: numan@cs.uwp.edu NEWBIE: Mark Stanton AGE: 31 LIVES: USA - San Jose, California DOES: Industrial Design INSTRUMENTS: guitar PASSIONS: Industrial Design, cars (restoring/racing), bikes, and music. OTHER MUSIC: My Bloody Valentine, Toenut, Minor Threat (mostly college/indie and punk) FIRST NUMAN LP: Replicas NUMAN SHOWS: just I,Assassin tour NUMAN ALBUMS: lots and lots ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:06:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Dawe Subject: Newman Newman Auction To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi! Wow! How many people actually *read* that guy's original post? He was auctioning New Man Numan, starting at $25. Let's check our facts before jumping on each other's backs please. -------------------------------------------------- omega@torfree.net - Proud member of #SkAS# Skuld Appreciation Society, Goddess of De-buggers! -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:34:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Isabel Botana Subject: Our mutual friend To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Dear Gary, do you BY ANY CHANCE have Warren Cann's e-mail address? The last time I spoke to him was last year and I cannot spot him. I suppose he will still be living in L.A., though. Well, it IS worth a try, innit...? Thank you in advance for your kind collaboration. Love'n'hugs Isabel a1774565@smail.rrz.uni-koeln.de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 14:54:03 -0500 From: tlwalter@accs.net (Troy Walters) Subject: Quick to judge, quick to anger To: Gary Numan Hello everyone, I can't seem to let this one go. It seems there are those who are quick to judge others here (not exactly the forum for such conduct -- private e-mail would have been more appropriate) and quick to anger over things that make no sense. Is it that these people cannot read? Is it that they are replying to post from memory? Is it that these people simply have a need to attempt to humiliate others in a public forum? Ever try a little tolerance. How about this: If it doesn't pertain to you -- butt out. At the very least, you may want to get the FACTS straight before you go knocking someone else's post. Of course all this rambling is in regard to the $100.00 video offer. > From: Phil Marsh > Subject: An open letter to Numan "do gooders" > To: KARL LEE MILLER > > I was, possibly, one of the "do gooders" you refer to, > > You described a video. I recognized it as "Newman Numan" and thought > it worth giving any list members unaware of its existence that > information. That was all. In fact, I even said it was worth > getting for the slightly different version of I Die:You Die. This is understandable. It helps to inform. I didn't notice any reason for the reply either -- quick to anger... but when you post in an open forum, as you did, without the original poster being given a chance to explain -- it is understandable that they may retaliate. Or, misunderstand what it is you are attempting to point out. We all get a little vague with our posts at times. > Frankly, I don't see why you are so upset. Myself and Robert Bush > merely pointed out that such a video did exist commercially. I don't > think either of us described you as "unscrupulous", or said "don't > pay over the odds for this, he's trying to rip you all off". Perception is reality. As I said, perhaps private e-mail would have been a better forum. Or, you could have posted a message to the original poster with a question you have about such an offer. Or with facts about the same item. You, however, posted to "the digest" which may be construed as a flame. Correct? > Finally, what this extract from your mail is on about:- > > >"I challenge these individuals who feel that I was trying > >to rip-off collectors to provide EACH ONE OF THEM with a copy of the Quick to anger... caused by his perception of a flame perhaps? Justified? Well, probably, since the original post opened bidding at $25.00. The $100.00 figure was merely a guarantee for sell and quick delivery. Reread the original post. Maybe if you had mentioned the $25.00 in your remarks, this misunderstanding would not have taken place. Just gets a little childish from here... or at least that is MY perception... > Phil > (pmarsh@tpmde.ac.uk) > > ------------------------------ > > From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) > Subject: Criticism of Karl - some comments > > A few people have posted criticizing Karl Miller for his auction of a copy > of the Newman Numan video. Karl came to his own defence in no uncertain > terms in the last issue (#251). Perhaps a few things need to be made > clear. > > Karl is not a subscriber to this list so he is not part of opur group. I > pointed him to the Numan Digest when he offered several, some rare, Numan > CDs for sale on rec.music.marketplace at very respectable prices. I don't > know why he is selling his Numan collection, but that is none of my > business but he may not be in the position to be as charitable as many > subscribers are in offering Numan items. Derek, Perhaps, in the future, you may wish to limit the posting of those who are not subscribers. Maybe a more simplified post would have been appropriate: Numan video offered for auction. Contact xxxxxxx@xxx.xx for information. I do not wish to seem as though I am telling you how to control this forum (I think you do incredibly well), merely offering a suggestion. > As to his offer of the video. In #249 he said: > > >Now, I am going to leave bidding open, but I would like to start at $25 > >and go from there. If you want this, please do not offer me some > >screwball price. Buyout price: $100. For the $100 sum, I will send the > >video next day to your home/office. Oh, the tape and case are in mint/nm > >condition. This is where I think the miscommunication began. If posters would read the entire post and collect the facts prior to posting a reply, these situation would probably decrease substantially. It's a theory... > The perceived value of the video depends on the individual. Well said! As I posted earlier, if it doesn't pertain to you, butt out. If you are not interested in purchasing outright for $100.00, don't worry about it... How hard is that? Some people are simply born "shit-stirrers" and enjoy creating controversy. (Who? Me?) > Derek As I said, I admire the job you do Derek. I for one would not have the patience, nor the tact to deal with some people. >------------------------------ > From: "Tony R. Boies" > Subject: NUMA LP and Newman Numan flack > > I don't think a mint condition copy of Newman Numan for $100 is all that > outrageous. I was trying to get ahold of MicroMusic several years ago and > couldn't find it listed in anyone's catalog for less than $112. > > Tony R. Boies Is it possible the video IS worth the $100.00 buyout price? YES, it is possible. What may seem outrageous to some may seem quite reasonable to others? "Can open. Worms everywhere." > ------------------------------ > From: Andy > Subject: Numan ripoffs.. > > <<.but certainly not rare enough to be charging such > Absolutely....if you REALLY want Newman Numan, or any > other rare stuff, then Im sure someone on this digest > would easily be willing to copy it for a blank tape / > video and some postage... > > This really shouldnt be a place to 'get rich quick' on > the backs of other Numan fans... > > I mean, sure, selling stuff at cost price, or whatever, > theres no problem, but $100 ...... Hmm. Should looked at the original post. Another misconception that the video was available ONLY for $100.00. Besides, a copy (without even getting into the legalities) is not the same, now is it. As a collector, a second or third generation dub isn't nearly as satisfying. > ------------------------------ > > From: RUDOLPH RONAY > Subject: Over Pricing and Collectibles > > Hi all: > > The New-Man Numan tape for 100 dollars is a rip off. Bidding is one = > thing, but to out right charge that is another. Now that the internet = > Bye Bye > > Rudy Okay, so it WAS offered as a bid able item -- and at a reasonable price. Did ANYONE who posted about Karl's offer READ his post, or was the reply simple as a result of someone else's post? I wonder... Quick to judge, indeed. > ------------------------------ > > From: Alexander Deacon <100603.3353@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Very expensive videos AND weird WRITING > > Hello all, > Well Karl its good to see a more robust style back on the digest again. It's > been a long time. However a $100 does seem a little steep for Newman Numan. > Good though the video is, it isn't impossible to get and your "inappropriate" > valuation might suggest to the more sensitive digest members that you haven't > got their best interests at heart. Poor things. > Loved the tone though > > Love as ever > Alexander Deacon > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz And again, no mention of the fair price offered for opening bid. Hmm. How frustrating... > ------------------------------ Now, I realize I have merely fanned the flames (pun intended), but I felt compelled to plead for a little tolerance. Discussions are great, but childish flaming or accusations based on improper facts should have no place here. That's all I'm saying (for now)... Remember: -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... (c) -- Troy L. Walters tlwalter@accs.net http://www.accs.net/users/tlwalter -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... (c) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 01:48:30 -0400 From: KasprHipCk@aol.com Subject: Sacrifice Trade To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi, I am looking to trade my Sacrifice (extended version) cd for the original non-extended one. All those interested please e-mail me at KasprHipCk@aol.com Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Aug 96 14:55:25 EDT From: Nigel Day <100675.1253@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Strange Charm To: Numan Digest Here's my tuppence worth re: Strange Charm. This is certainly a mixed bag as far as Numan albums go. With tracks ranging from the incredible (My Breathing) to the inane (The Need), Gary seems to be on varying highs and lows throughout the album. It's only really a couple of tracks which let the whole thing down as far as I'm concerned. "Unknown and hostile" is poor as is "The Need" and even "I Cant Stop" begins to wear extremely thin after a few listens. The rest of the album however shines. "My Breathing" is without doubt one of Numans best tracks of all time, and The Sleeproom, New Thing and This Is Love are also well cool songs. After the horrors of The Fury, it certainly looked as though Numan's sense of coolness had returned. Shame it took another 10 years and a pile of hideous errors for that coolness to become solid. Nigel Off out to burn is copies of Metal Rythmn Outland and Machine & "Soul". Sorry fans of the above (Alex) Going back to Replicas I agree with Donald P that it is a sarilige that "Downstat" and "We have a technical" were omitted. How cool would Replicas have been had those 2 tracks been stuck on there somewhere??? It doesn't bear thinking about. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 18:53:00 -0800 From: zigi@teleport.com (Ziggy Blum) Subject: Strange Charm To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Strange Charm is another of those emotionally-loaded albums for me (come to think of it, the vast majority of Numan albums are emotionally loaded for me, which is one reason I still listen to the boy). I don't remember if I knew it was coming out or if I just ran across it, but I found the cover kind of embarrassing for some reason and winced when I bought it (at Rough Trade on Folsom St [Folsom?] in SF), but buy it I did (and the inner sleeve is *much* nicer. I got an A+ in a college class for a pencil drawing based on it that I did around that time. :-) I have an annoying feeling they also had the CD, but I was CD-impaired at the time, and didn't give it a second thought (I have a similar irritating memory of happening across The Fury CD at another place in SF, which I would now give at least the enamel from one eyetooth for). I sort of generally like Strange Charm, though I think it's an uneven album. On the whole, the songs seem to have good bones and kind of pendulous flesh; I've often wanted to re-produce "Strange Charm," throwing away about 2/3rds of it--the contrived 2/3rds, particularly the funky break. I think the song has a good driving core that gets dissipated with all the loops and hooks. "I Can't Stop" I would probably entirely 86. "The Need"--well, that's an annoying song, but it's so precisely annoying that I regard it with respect and some warmth. "Unknown and Hostile" has some fine moments but some mediocre minutes; ditto for "London Town" and "This is Love," though the emotional delivery of the latter is lovely. I am one of those who dislike the female backups and the saxes, incidentally. I really like "Time to Die," which I have on a single, partly because it's sort of raw and direct, and partly because I love Blade Runner. :-) I think "My Breathing" and "The Sleeproom," however, are two of Gary's absolute masterpieces, both lyrically and musically. I was going through a sort of love/hate Numan phase, and it took me a couple weeks to actually play the album, with great trepidation--"My Breathing"? I was thinking. What's next, "My Digestion"? If it had started with "I Can't Stop" I might never have played the whole thing. But no--"My Breathing" left my jaw hanging--what a gorgeousity! "The Sleeproom" has the strangeness, starkness, and invention that I originally fell in love with in Gary's early work, and I love the scrapy, breathy percussion. These days, when I play the album I do play it all the way through. Like The Fury, it took me a little while to get past the saxes and down to the good stuff, but I think there's some good stuff down there. zg (The Ratwife) zigi@teleport.com, ZigiF@aol.com *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** I'm not the fig-plucker nor the fig-plucker's son But I'll pluck figs til the fig-plucker comes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:47:28 -0700 From: dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Derek Langsford) Subject: Strange Charm - Derek's comments To: numan@cs.uwp.edu "Strange Charm" came out in 1986, Gary's second album after I had moved from the UK to the US. I have already written my comments on "The Fury" and you might remember that I don't find it to be very listenable in its entirity. I was cautious when I first saw SC, so cautious that I did not buy it until over 6 months later. Yes, I've has not always been a rabid fan :-), rather my enthusiasm has depended on Gary's recent output. I remember taking the plunge with SC in Tower Records, Sport's Arena Blvd in San Diego hoping that the $18.99 was not going to be the painful expediture that "The Fury" proved to be. I got home and put the disc into my Discman and waited for the programmed beat and wailing vocals as the whispy opening of "My Breathing" started. Hmmm. This was much better, I thought. Good intro, nice intrumentation, different for Gary, and restrained female backing vocals. I was greatly encouraged. A great song. Needless to say my pleasant surprise was quickly squelched by "Unknown and Hostile". Aaaack! (sorry Wayne). All those worries resurfaced but then comes along "The Sleeproom", another tastey bit of classic Numan. I have always liked this song and was glad it appeared on "Ghost". So my hopes were back up and that continued with "New Thing from London Town" which although different for Gary, no doubt due to Bill Sharpe's influence, works well on the album. I've noticed that on all the tracks that Gary has done with Sharpe his voice mellows out. Maybe it's because Sharpe's melodies do not require any vocal gymnastics. It may also be the reason why Sharpe's Shakatak or solo work is so bland. Onto side 2 (as indicated on the CD insert). "I can't stop it, I can't stop it again, I can't stop it, I can't stop it again..........." Oh dear. A return to the territory of "Unknown and Hostile" and that intro just makes me want it to *stop*. Not that this is a bad song because it sounds pretty good in the 10" Club mix and even the 7" with the instrumental intro. But this version with the vocal intro is just ruined IMO. Relief appears in the form of the title track which has some neat keyboards despite it's busy nature. Then the album IMO hits rock bottom. "Get the need, get *it*" perhaps should be called "I Can't Stop II" Only this is worse, *far* worse. Some neat lyrics don't save this and it is very close to the top of my list of my least favourite Numan songs. Uuuughhh! Gary redeems hiself some with the final ballad, though "This is Love" is not my favourite. So for me, SC is a very patchy album. From the euphoric high of "My Breathing" to the wretched low of "The Need". It's hit or miss for me, but the album did produce two top 30 UK hits for Gary ("This is love" no. 29, "I Can't Stop" no. 25), his first pair of hits from an album since "Warriors". Tis not an album I listen to very much and I rate it lower than average for Gary. The inconsitency is what lets it down. He evened things out better next time out with "Metal Rhythm" which has already been discussed. Gary again proved himself with the b-sides from this era. "Time to Die" is far better than "This is Love" IMO. And "Faces" is a great track that reminds me a lot of Bill Nelson. "Survival" goes on too long without variation for an intrumental. "Puppets" is OK but sounds more like a Fury era track despite beign the b-side to the "I Still Remember RSPCA" single which came after SC and before MR. For me SC would have been much improved by taking off U&H, ICS and TN and adding TtD, Faces and Puppets and maybe the club mix of ICS. Derek -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derek H. Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu Dept. of Biology Tel. (619) 594 2885 San Diego State University Fax (619) 594 7831 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:17:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Subject: unsubscribe To: numan@cs.uwp.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Aug 96 10:44:29 EDT From: Nigel Day <100675.1253@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Vids To: Numan Digest Hi It's incredible that anyone would even conside paying $100.00 for a video. Doesn't anyone go to car boot sales? I picked up mint copies of "The Touring Principle" and "Micromusic" for 3 quid each a few months back !!!! Now that is what I call a bargain :-) Saying that I still have yet to find a copy of Newman Numan, but I'm sure that one day it will turn up for a damn sight less than even $25.00. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:56:50 +0100 From: Jon Bunting Subject: White Stingray To: numan@cs.uwp.edu New name, new look. If you get the chance pop by. Cheers. Jon. http://www.netxtra.co.uk/jab/gn.htm -- Jon Bunting ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************