Gary Numan Digest Thu, 12 Dec 96 Volume 1 : Issue 287 Today's Topics: Gary Numan Digest V1 #284 happy xmass and newyear KINSMEN Miscellaneous Mutiny amongst the ranks Net article Numan -- of course numania The Top 500 Modern Rock Songs of All Time Tom Robinson - Buy that man a drink! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:19:35 -0500 From: GCBridges@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #284 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Has anyone got any firm news of the 'Kinsmen' film. What studio , where is it being filmed , what is it about etc..... I would certainly appreciate hearing about that far more than the recent infighting. Can everyone please give the slagging match a rest now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 11:50:58 +0000 From: Stefano Meneghetti Subject: happy xmass and newyear To: Gary Numan happy xmass and newyear to every body stefano@glamm.it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:33:18 -0500 From: Poyner202@aol.com Subject: KINSMEN To: NUMAN@cs.uwp.edu Futher to Jane Yorkes comments about the film Kinsmen I would agree that this is indeed a good topic to discuss. One small problem however, I know next to nothing about the film apart from garys in it and he plays a villian. Anyone know any more. Also John Gorham has reminded me about one of Gary's best songs "My Car Slides part 2". This has to be one of the best. All my best. Martin Poyner. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Dec 96 18:42:35 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Miscellaneous To: "Gary Numan" Numan Server ============ In regards to the "@numan.net" idea that I threw out in Sunday's Digest, the feedback I've been receiving has been overwhelmingly positive (so far), for which I thank you. IF SOMEONE HAS SOME COLD WATER TO THROW ON THIS PROJECT, PLEASE DO SO QUICKLY as otherwise I'm going to go ahead with this thing. Joey's Q&A's ============ The response from this has also been favourable, but this time just barely. Several negative comments have appeared in this Digest in regards to it. Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. But I think several of you (ie: Ruthi, Jane, et al) have somewhat missed my point. As a graduate student of the Rush Limbaugh Institute For Exuberant Journalism, I was attempting to demonstrate absurdity by being absurd. Certainly I do not advocate censorship *NOR* was I telling anybody what they should think. Instead, I chose an absurd method to illustrate exactly what others have been doing (ie: advocating censorship, telling people what they should think). To have taken this posting seriously in ANY respect means you missed the point. Granted it was a subtle point... :-) I have said, and will continue to say, that YOUR OPINION IS YOUR OWN and you are just as entitled to it as I am to mine, as Derek is to his, as Alex Deacon is to his. The only half-serious point I did make with the posting is that those who are here ONLY to attack others (be it Gary or anyone else) should sit down and think about why exactly they're here. Do they really think they've got something to contribute, or does the Digest serve only to gratify their ego? I think if most of us are honest with themselves, we'll admit that there's a bit of both involved. Even the most stage-shy of us gets a bit of a kick seeing our writings appear in this Digest and thus be transmitted to readers around the world. Yes, there's an ego-stroke involved. But if that's the ONLY reason you're here, or even the main reason, then I think that's sad... and that there are better ways to go about this. Ask Slick Willy Clinton. /--------------------------------------------------------- / Joey Lindstrom numanoid@netway.ab.ca lindstrj@cadvision.com / http://www.netway.ab.ca/worldwidewebb/ / "There's a reason 'Wheel Of Fortune' is on right after 'Jeopardy'. Once / you've been forced to choke down the foul-tasting tequila shot of your / own abject ignorance, it's nice to be able to bite into the refreshing / lime wedge of other people's incredible fucking stupidity." / - Dennis Miller ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:38:32 GMT From: austinbaggett@ex-or.co.uk (Austin) Subject: Mutiny amongst the ranks To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Dear Digesters, Sorry I'm a bit late with this but the following paragraph was written a few weeks ago when my ability to send e-mail was down and consequently it was never sent. It also ties in with my (slightly) critical post earlier on in this edition. So here it is: I think the recent critical posts on the Digest are a reflection of how bloody FRUSTRATING it is to be an ardent Numan follower for nearly 18 years. Having invested so much time, money and ANTICIPATION in the man's career, I would of thought it would be IMPOSSIBLE for any fan to have a passive, non-critical opinion of certain aspects of his career. The digest is the only place where these opinions can be aired. That's that of my chest. Bye, Austin Baggett, London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 11:42:42 MST From: gessman@ihs.com Subject: Net article To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Was looking up some trivia and came across this database of information. Take a look as to what is said about GN. Enjoy or get pissed! Here is the address. http://www.roughguides.com/RG_WWW/rock/final_rock_entries/GARY_NUMAN.html And if you've already seen this, sorry to bother. Gene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 13:50:48 -0500 From: tlwalter@accs.net (Troy Walters) Subject: Numan -- of course To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Erin Tavano wrote: "if i am subjected to one more three-screen post about what everyone's attitudes on the digest should be, and who should say what and how, and what their particular moral take on it all is, i'm going to scream." Sorry, start screaming! Derek H. Langsford Ph.D. <<<< Congrats Doc! Derek: > "Some intriguing info this month" Indeed there is. Gary > "a recording made of the Pittsburgh show" One can only hope this materializes. Gary: > "Although many of the performances were stunning it may have been better > if I'd kept things along the lines I'd first thought to keep that > 'Numan-ness' feel to the songs. I've never really made up my mind > whether I was right or wrong, I just enjoyed hearing excellent singers > sing bits of my songs." Well, from my personal standpoint, I enjoy the touch. I not only listen to music, I allow it to move me on a much more primal level. Therefore, the technical aspects are not only boring but annoying in most cases. I either like something or I do not. Case in point: I know of no one who enjoys "Cry the Clock Said" as much as I do. For years I never even knew what the words to this (or many other Numan songs) song were -- but it moves me in a way that very few other songs do. I can't explain it. I don't need to understand it. It's the way it is and I accept it. I enjoy it. On the other hand, ANY 'country' uh-hem "music" attacks EVERY nerve in my being. I leave places that play it. If I suspect a place plays it, I avoid it. I've quite working at places that played it. Again, music reaches a very primal level in me -- in this case, a rage so intense I once shot a hole in the ceiling of a place I worked! (accidentally though). For those who are so bent on the technical aspects of the music, may I suggest you begin a technically oriented discussion -- it's fine with me. I can simply Page Down. We all could be a little more tolerant (I'm learning). If someone posts something you do not agree with, so be it -- no one is MAKING you post a reply or a flame. If it does not apply to you or your beliefs -- ignore it. It WILL go away. Conversely, a good "discussion" has it's place as well -- but not childish name calling or down-talking banter. Who needs it? Gary: > "I think it would be wrong to assume anything about any musician simply > because they're trained or untrained. You have to hear them play." I am in full agreement with this statement. And if you hear someone play and do not like it, don't listen. I would not consider going into a Garth Brooks Digest area and bash his "work." What's the point? I have been unable to understand the 'context' of the negative posts here. To call something shit is merely an opinion -- not FACT. If you believe that you are the know-all, end-all of music, check yourself in someplace because you are seriously deluded! If you have an opinion -- state it. The rest of us should realize that that is all that it is -- YOUR opinion -- and it may or may not have any validity for me. My opinion is that country "music" sucks! But I serve no real purpose by making this statement. If it is on topic -- stating my opinion that I do not care for country "music" would be more appropriate -- and more adult. Gary: > "Sometimes I'm nowhere near as deep as some people think. In fact I'm > not deep at all but I do like to play little games and see what the > reaction is." This is a point that I feel has been missed by a large number of people -- especially the British media: Mr. Numan has a sense of humor! Just because YOU may not "get it" doesn't mean it isn't humor. You may interpret things completely different than the author intended -- in any circumstance. Simply because your perception is your reality -- does not indeed make it fact! Gary: > "I have a long way to go to re-establish myself musically." What's to reestablish? I realize there isn't popular music acceptance, but I think a great deal of emphasis (as well as energy) is being placed in the wrong area. There are FORMULAS for writing Pop songs. There are Technical aspects to writing Pop songs. This is what makes them seem appealing, but eventually become boring and trite. I like (most of) the music that Gary writes. The emotions he conveys. I don't want him to "write songs." I want him to express emotion, passion, feeling! If he never becomes popular again, so be it. He's managed quite well this long without it. Perhaps an acting career can afford him the opportunities to continue producing HIS music HIS way for as long as he likes. When it gets to the point that he is simply writing songs, I'll have probably lost interest anyway. It isn't the "songs" -- they are merely the vehicle for something SO MUCH GREATER! Derek: > "Gary needs to have someone proof read his liner notes and check for > accuracy. It would be nice if he showed a bit more imagination with the > reissues but until Gary signs up with a major label I'm afraid these > problems are likely to persist." I propose that it be put to Gary that WE help in this area -- the proofreading anyway. Who better to do it? It's not like we're not critical enough! :) And it wouldn't cost him a thing. A win - win situation. What d'ya say Derek? Derek: > "Let's face it Gary is not an accountant or nearly as enthused about his > back catalogue as most fans are." I'm sure he's pretty tired of "old" things. Has anyone else here ever written a song, or poem, or story (or dissertation) before? By the time you've finished with it -- in some cases -- you wish you'd never have to deal with it again. By the time you hear a Numan song for the first time, he may have heard it thousands of times -- bits at a time, in layers, front wards and backwards, inside out and upside down. Wouldn't you be a little fed up by then? He is only human, as are we all. Not many people are willing to undertake the type of responsibility for ANYTHING that Gary and his family take on -- let's face it -- for his fans. That's us. We should be grateful. I for one will miss it when it's gone -- an eventuality. Ruthi, Thanks for the post. I enjoyed it greatly. Though I'm afraid my posts are equally -- if not more so -- boring and trite as others. :) Chris Campbell: > "some industrious musicians could create some Numan midi files then make a > web page of them." I'm working on it, but never enough time in a day -- ya know? And it's like Gary said: "I don't see the point in doing covers of other peoples songs when I'm writing some of the best songs of my life at the moment. Best Numan songs I hasten to add not best songs period." Only in my case, I'm merely writing my own songs, which I consider good anyway. Stephen: > "p.s. If you guys can`t stop critisising Gary, I will inform Scully and > Mulder to trace you down." A little humor toward the end of the digest is a wonderful thing! Thanks. NuWorld: "It has become increasingly clear that Gary would be more likely to get the sort of record deal that he needs if he was to sign directly to an American based label." "This would obviously require Gary to work and operate from the United States on a much more frequent basis." Yahoo! Oh, please let it be true! I think Joey is onto something! A Numan server! Hmmm. Yeah. I think I like that. Rob: > "Who are your favorite musicians who have played with Gary?" I'd say Mick Karn. Just because. So there. :) And lastly (for this digest): There has been quite a bit of bashing of Sacrifice. Well, we all now know how I feel about opinions of others. So, here's mine: Sacrifice, to me, has been an extraordinary experience. I listened to it for AT LEAST six months (over and over) before I even bothered to learn what the song titles are. And it wasn't until after that that I decided to learn the real lyrics. The music reaches me. Some complain that it's "muddy" or "muffled." Depends on how you listen and through what. I've got a couple of really elaborate systems at home, and it sounds incredible to me. But I equally enjoy listening on my (not-so) little box at work -- with all the machines running and the chaos. It works for me -- very well. Thanks for tuning in. -- Troy L. Walters tlwalter@accs.net http://www.accs.net/users/tlwalter -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... (c) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:47:38 -0500 (EST) From: FORTNCR Subject: numania To: datta@cs.uwp.edu Hey, its the new guy from Canada just signing in. I figure I'll let you people know about me and my opinions about Gary. First of all, I'm from Newmarket Ontario (just north of Toronto). I know a couple of people around here who are big Gary fans. He's still well known around here but that's because of Cars being overkilled on some of our local stations. I shouldn't complain though, it's hard enough trying to find Gary on the radio as it is. Anyway, I have to tell all you Gary fans something. Everytime I go to a concert such as Nitzer Ebb or Front Line Assembly or basically any 'electronic' type band, I always hear someone yell "Are Friends Electric?". It's become a pre-concert chant in some cases. It just goes to show how important Gary's contribution to the music scene is. Here are some of my thoughts on Gary: 1) His newest stuff (excerpts from Exile on the net + Absolution) and Sacrifice is my favorite material. There's something dark, yet quite melodic about all the songs. Gary seems to be able to be moody without being pretentious (I won't name any names). 2) I'm a big Depeche Mode fan and I noticed a picture of Gary with Alan Wilder (foremerly of DM). Hmmm. Imagine the possibilities.... 3) I wish dj's would quit making ridiculous-sounding dance versions of Gary's classic: Cars. 4) What's with the acting career? Gary, release Exile already! 5) Strange Charm and the Fury will finally be in my cd collection in about 3 weeks! 6) I own quite a bit of Gary's stuff (mostly mid-eighties onwards). I have: Exhibition (best of), Berserker, White Noise, Isolate, New Anger/Metal Rhythm, The Skin Mechanic, Outland, Machine and Soul, Sacrifice, Sacrifice Extended, The Other Side of.., Absolution Single, Heart Single, Machine and Soul Singles, Dark Light, and I think I'm forgetting something...Oh yeah, the Absolution Single and Question of Faith single. 7) Fav song('90s): Question of Faith Fav song (80's): Call Out the Dogs 8) Can somebody tell me what's going on with the tribute album I keep hearing about? (With NIN, PWEI, Beloved, etc.) Anyway, gotta run. Just checking in to let you know I'm here. Rob, a numanoid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:51:24 -0600 (CST) From: Doug Finney Subject: The Top 500 Modern Rock Songs of All Time To: numan@cs.uwp.edu On Thanksgiving weekend the local "modern rock" station (KTBZ 107.5 in Houston, TX - "The Buzz" - aren't they clever and original?) did one of those "Top 500" song list things. I'd heard these on AOR or classic rock stations where the top song was usually "Stairway to Heaven" followed closely by "Freebird" and a bunch of Beatles and Stones songs. As you can probably guess the was a lot of pure crap but there were lots of great songs and nifty surprises mixed in. The tracks were apparently chosen through a combination of chart success (sales and airplay) and listener votes. Naturally the list was heavily skewed in favor of newer music. If you can't guess the #1 song you must have been living under a rock for the past several years. The top 25 reads like a Who's Who in grunge but I was impressed to see U2 at #6 with "Sunday Bloody Sunday" and the Clash at #12 with "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" isn't bad. But the top R.E.M. song is "The One I Love" (#14) followed by "Losing My Religion" (#55)? Give me a break. So what about Gary? Well, obviously the only Numan single anyone in the U.S. remembers is "Cars" but it clocked in at a very respectible (IMO) #73 beating out such 80's standards as "I Melt With You" (Modern English - #81) and "Burning Down the House" (Talking Heads - #82), plus 60% of the Nirvana tracks, and almost 2/3 of the Pearl Jam songs. :) The only other Numan appearance was the Foo Fighter's cover of "Down In the Park" which was their top showing at #76. If anyone wants to check out the full list it can be found at http://www.thebuzz.com/500.htm. Other "oldies" I was happy to see (er, hear) included Devo, A Flock of Seagulls, XTC, Violent Femmes, Oingo Boingo, Joy Division, Wall of Voodoo, Iggy Pop, English Beat, B52's, Shriekback, Sex Pistols and more. Of course, the list of bands I was sorry not to hear was even longer. But I guess you can't have everything. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 19:02:47 GMT From: austinbaggett@ex-or.co.uk (Austin) Subject: Tom Robinson - Buy that man a drink! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Digesters, What a great post from Andy McHaffie in the last digest about Tom Robinson's apologetic reply regarding his Melody Maker interview in 1980. I was surprised by Tom's overall reaction to GN. Tom being rather "right-on", and Gary being, well....... you know. What was particularly facinating was his constructive views on Gary's "hands-on" approach.......... "Gary should of used the specialist skills and expertise of others to complement his own - which was the music". I would have to agree with Mr Robinson. Gary IS too much hands on in TOO many aspects of his career. I know this has many advantages - however there is a downside. With the exception of Sacrifice, look at the awful sleeve designs. Dream Corrosion being the worst sleeve design ever in the history of sleeve design --- with Warriors a close second. Sound quality of his CDs since he started recording them in his spare bedroom (with the help of Tracey and then Gemma at the mixing desk controls too!) has been abysmal. T-shirt designs are amateurish and look ten years out of date. Look at the cock-up with the Premier tour programme - was there nobody else around apart from Gary to proof-read it?! Does he have to do everything? The music SHOULD be 100% controlled by Gary. I understand all the Machine & Soul arguments. I know I know.........a) money is short.... and b) that's what makes GN so appealing - we get 100% Numan ingredient in everything.... etc etc. But how much BETTER things COULD be............ I just hope Gary doesn't get a new camera for Xmas with one of those self-timer facilities. Otherwise we'll have "photographer" listed under GN's credits as well! Regards to all, Austin Baggett, London ps. Andy - ask Tom if he has any more great tips for Gary! ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************