Gary Numan Digest Sun, 18 May 97 Volume 1 : Issue 331 Today's Topics: Criticizing Gary Demand to Beggars! exile hornets, bees &wasps No further comment Numan / Foxx/ Airplay in context ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 97 06:02:26 -0700 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Criticizing Gary To: "Gary Numan" There seems to be a bit of a kerfuffle going on about whether it's ok to criticize Gary here in this Digest. The obvious, easy answer is: "yes, otherwise you wouldn't SEE IT." It is expressly PERMITTED by Derek and Dave. Although this is not a moderated list (as evidenced by the bonehead in the Thursday Digest who regurgitated half an issue of a previous Digest back at us), Derek keeps an eye on things and if they get out of hand, the email will fly and/or he'll step in here and say something. While it's true that he's been busy of late, he very specifically stated that he's still reading every issue. He's not stomped on anybody yet, so obviously it's ok. Now, as to the question of *SHOULD* such criticisms be allowed, I say yes. I would obviously PREFER IT if such criticisms are at least well-reasoned and hopefully CONSTRUCTIVE in nature... and the criticisms I've seen lately have been *EXACTLY* that, including a few that I disagree strongly with. But they offer another perspective, and if Gary's fans are speaking out on some issues, then that fact ALONE should give us pause for thought. When in the UK, I ran into a few fans (one in particular whose name I will *NOT* mention but whose identity is, perhaps, easily inferrable) who were absolutely 100% pro-Numan. Period. They will brook *NO* criticism of the Great God Gary. I can remember sitting around playing some tunes with "the fan" in question and making comments... and the more I spoke, the more his eyebrows rose in consternation. I then started defending "Outland" as being "not as bad as a lot of the North American fans think it was" and his jaw dropped: he couldn't understand how anybody could POSSIBLY not like "Outland", and told me so. That's when things got a little dicey between us. :-) The point here is that the more I thought about this incident, the more I began to actually pity the guy. While on virtually every other subject under the sun he held intelligent, thought-provoking and often insightful views, as far as Gary went, perfection had already been achieved. And that to me is *SAD*. Nothing is perfect and NEITHER IS GARY. And Gary would be standing first in line to tell you that. All we can hope to do is strive to be as CLOSE to perfection as possible, but when we fail, to learn from our mistakes. Gary doesn't read this Digest - he's not going to learn from any mistakes just because we happen to point them out to him. But *WE* can learn from (what we perceive to be) his mistakes and apply such lessons to our own lives and our own approaches to our lives. The discussion itself, however, is not just a means to an end - to my way of thinking, it's part of the *FUN* of being a fan. As I said, Gary doesn't read the Digest. In fact, his connection to it is as unofficial as he can manage it - in fact I was ASTOUNDED when Derek announced that Gary would be answering our questions on a monthly basis. Gary isn't a big fan of criticism and I know for a fact that he is slightly put-out with some Numan site authors who have voiced the occasional critical word in the past ON THEIR SITE. The "Numan Network" sites strive to portray Gary in a generally positive light but this does not preclude the occasional use of constructive criticism (which I certainly engage in myself), no matter how much it may make Gary's feet itch. The key is that there is a right way and a wrong way to criticize. Some here in the Digest have been guilty of "the wrong way" in the past, but nothing I've seen in the past month (other than that one bomb-heaver that appeared two or three issues ago and then disappeared) qualifies as "the wrong way". Having said all that - I might suggest that some of the people who're vigorously defending themselves, and vigorously slamming those who've opposed their critical views, might perhaps take a valium and back off just a sec, and consider... just CONSIDER... the possibility that MAYBE there's a bit of over-reaction going on on *BOTH* sides of this particular fence. None of us are perfect, and none are less perfect than critics. :-) (And yes, I do consider myself to be at least a part-time critic) /--------------------------------------------------------- / From: The Desk Of Joey Lindstrom +1 (403) 620-4708 / EMAIL: joey@lindstrom.com numanoid@netway.ab.ca lindstrj@cadvision.com / WEB: http://www.netway.ab.ca/worldwidewebb/ / / "There's a reason 'Wheel Of Fortune' is on right after 'Jeopardy'. Once / you've been forced to choke down the foul-tasting tequila shot of your / own abject ignorance, it's nice to be able to bite into the refreshing / lime wedge of other people's incredible fucking stupidity." / - Dennis Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 00:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: MaxJabrone@aol.com Subject: Demand to Beggars! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello all! I, like most of you, are tired of the same compilations coming out repackaging the same old thing. Archive, Other Side of..., Here I Am, Story So Far, etc... And now Random, a 2cd set of tributes. I commend the efort, but I would like to listen to Numan material i've never heard, or material which has never surfaced on cd. I have recently thought of instead of Living Ornaments being released, why not the entire tours be released on cd: The Touring Principle, Teletour, Farewell Concerts, I, Assassin, and Warriors. That is definetly money worth spending! Why I bring this up is because I would like as many people as possible to mail Beggars and request (or demand if put politely) that these tours be put on cd. The more pressure and demand for these cd's, the more importance will be placed for these releases, therefore music worth buying. Please consider this! Thank you! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 03:30:23 -0400 (EDT) From: RWKJ@aol.com Subject: exile To: numan@cs.uwp.edu The U.S. eagerly awaits the release of the "EXILE" l.p. along with tour dates for the U.S. I don't think numarecords will find any difficulties except a bunch of fans awaiting concert dates in the northeast!!! Contact us at rwkj@aol.com via the www. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael R. Ward" Subject: hornets, bees &wasps To: numan digest >What happens when he decides that the cost >is no longer worth the diminishing returns and stops making new music. >Then >all we have is our memories and old CD's. That to me is the scary future >we >are looking at and by looking at Gary's comments at times may not be all >that far fetched. while i love and collect his music when it ends i will still sleep well. i don't believe for a moment gary is not getting a return on his work. he might not make the money of michael jackson but i doubt his bank account is in the red. music that in real art is more important to me than seeing gary make top ten. i still maintain that listening to outside intervention will produce another machine & soul or worse. if sacrafice is any indication i think gary will be around and valid for awhile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 02:42:01 -0400 From: brezniakdavid@webtv.net (David Brezniak) Subject: No further comment To: numan@cs.uwp.edu To "Joe Abbel" the only thing I am going to waste my time typing this out to you is this: Gary and Gemma are very happy together, she has influenced him in ways we'll never know about, and she gave him a reason to continue his career, believe in his career/life, and they are very happy together. If you have a problem with that, that's your fault. Have some respect for Gary, he needs someone in his life, too. I am not here to "flame" you for writing your thoughts, but I just want to express my own feelings and welcome you to do the same, but do it with respect for Gary. Gemma never said anything bad about you, did she? NO! How would you feel if she happened to read your comments? Maybe you don't care, and that's a shame for you. Gary has put his heart and soul into his career for a long time now, and a lot of it is "for his fans" and we as his fans have to give something back. A big congradulations and support for Gary. We have no business commenting about his personal life. And, as far as comparing Gary and Gemma to John and Yoko, please! This is a totally different situation here. I just wanted to speak my piece, as I usually do. But, please, have a little respect for Gary, if you are a fan. Thank you. (hi, andy!!!) Dave Brezniak ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:03:33 +0200 From: Arron Clague Subject: Numan / Foxx/ Airplay in context To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" I actually got into Gary Numan quite late (The Fury was the first album I heard) and have since got quite into John Foxx/Ultravox (Not with Midge Ure!). A lot seems to have been made over the years about the Foxx/Numan/Bowie thing, but in my opinion, as someone too young to actually have been there, early electronic pop has always been a rather cold, minimalist affair. All the groups which started off like this have since fleshed out their sound, and some have continued to hit the charts. I think this is why Numan/Foxx have been singled out. John Foxx disappeared shortly after Mysterious Ways(Which was not really so good) and Gary Numan after Strange Charm (The last UK single I can remember getting any airplay was I Can't Stop, not counting Sharpe & Numan/Radio Heart/ Cars remixes). Other groups who started their careers with cold isolated music are still around and have moved on :- The Human League are not remembered for "Black Hole from Outer Space" : they are remembered for the warmer "Don't You Want Me" Tears for Fears did better with "Everybody wants to Rule the World" than with "Mad World" David Bowie is not remembered for "Always Crashing in the same Car", he is remembered for "Let's Dance". (Stretching a point, Ashes to Ashes, Scary Monsters, etc were brilliant hits, as were his older stuff) I think to sum it all up, the charts at the height of Gary's success where homogeneous with his sound at the time. His core sound has changed very little over the years, with interesting new directions being appended to his work as secondary features. However it you try this as an experiment you will see what I mean. 1) Make a Tape of chart hits from 1980-1984 (Blancmange, Human League, Adam and the Ants, Bowie, Foxx , Ultravox , Blondie etc, pick any you like). Insert some Numan tracks in the running order from the same period. 2) Listen to the tape in company. You will have a nice co-hearent cassette to listen to in the car. 3) Make another tape of more recent chart hits(1990 - 1997) and add in a few Numan tracks from the same period. 4) Listen to in company. You will appreciate they stand out like a sore thumb. This is not that is anything wrong with the tracks, but Mr Numan is out of sync with current pop music. What he needs to get back in sync without selling out, is to get a great producer. Look at what happened to the Human League with Octopus, Depeche Mode with Ultra, U2 with Pop , Bowie with Earthling, as examples of this working very well. As it happens, as a Fan I would be happy for him to continue along his present route, producing himself, recording himself. I would be just as happy to see him return to Chart Success which I genuinely believe he deserves on pure genius songwriting alone. But However good the song is, A Question of faith was never going to chart because it does not fit into the current musical scene. Depeche mode have always realized this, and look at the changes made to the single versions of A question of Time and Behind the wheel to make them playable in the context of a airplay chart. Thanks, Arron Clague Sandton South Africa ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************