Gary Numan Digest Thu, 19 Jun 97 Volume 1 : Issue 340 Today's Topics: automatic-sharpe and numan Gary & Frank Gary's politics Gary in Germany Gary Numan Digest V1 #339 (4 msgs) Introduction New member Nick Fox - Loony Lefty Random Random, what else? Random and Richmond radio ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 20:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michael R. Ward" Subject: automatic-sharpe and numan To: numan digest at some point someone asked if anyone had a copy of automatic for sale. well i now do. if anyone is interested e-mail me a bid. michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:50:55 -0800 From: alexander way Subject: Gary & Frank To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > I have always considered that there were quite a few parallels > between the careers and talents of Gary Numan and the late Frank > Zappa. Even though I agree that there are parallels in the shape of the respective careers of Frank Zappa and Gary Numan, I don't like this comparison because their musical intentions and lyrical motivations are usually universes apart. After the first Mothers records (which were breakthroughs and amazing on so many levels), Frank nearly made a career out of putting people down through music in a very (in my mind, at least) self-defeating sort of way. He obviously hated everything from the hippies to Disco to Devo, which is fine. But he actually took the time to WRITE SONGS ABOUT IT. Both of those trends (sixties fashion and alternative culture, '70s dance music and '80s robotic new wave) are, for better or worse, to this day bigger than Frank and I can only think that that is what actually pissed him off. What a pointless exercize. Even Ween is better than that. Gary always had his own musical voice and therefore never needed to make snide commentaries about other people's tastes through his music and lyrics. (In fact, he only went to the devil musically when Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" came out, but that's beside the point.) To be fair to Zappites who are also Numanoids, when Frank wasn't going on and on in a way that could only be interpreted as jelousy, of course he was brilliant. For example, I wish Gary had made a video as fascinating and as entertaining as "I'm So Cute." This holds true for Gary as well: when he's not complaining in his lyrics about not being as famous as he used to be, his songs are more interesting. Maybe there is a valid comparison here: both Frank Zappa and Gary Numan are really tiresome listening experiences when they're sorry for themselves and they're amazing when they're true to their talents. The only actual musical comparison I can see existing between Frank and Gary is the fact that Gary worked with Bill Nelson in 1983 and Bill has always been a Captain Beefheart fan. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:09:26 -0700 From: "Martin R. Olah" Subject: Gary's politics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Could someone please explain what exactly Gary's offensive views are/were? I don't know too much about British political parties, so I don't understand the hatred shown to him. I get the impression that Gary was rather "conservative". Does that mean he was somewhat against government confiscation and redistribution of private assets? Or does "conservative" mean something completely different in the UK? Apparently his US gun ownership was a problem also. Is this considered bad by most Britains? I'm not looking for trouble, just useful info. Thanks, Martin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:40:09 -0400 From: Ingo Weinard Subject: Gary in Germany To: Gary Numan Hi you all, on thursday the 12.june was thr Republika version of "Are friend's..." played on "EINS LIVE" (in the afternoon about 4.00 o clock ) it's the biggest radiostation in West Germany. The host said it's from the Random Album of Gary Numan Songs. Then on Saturday the 14. june between 1.00 - 3.00 o clock in the morning was an 2 hour show only about Gary the progra= mm was called - Human beeing, Maschine or just grazy the exzentic life of english popstar Gary Numan -. In the most famous Musik magazine "Musik Express" was written in june "Ga= ry Numan the english new wave oldstar is looking for a comeback. He tries to= get Trent Reznor to produce his new album." One word to -Random-. Half of the songs are good- half of the songs are bad. (Best is Dubstar, Jimi Tenor, d Damon Albarn and Kenickie) See you then yours Ingo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:17:53 -0400 (EDT) From: BDay0000@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #339 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu The Random CD liner notes tries to distance itself from Gary but yet has a sticker on it that says "File Under Gary Numan" (and it was).... Whatever... Brad ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 23:17:51 -0400 (EDT) From: BDay0000@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #339 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In a message dated 97-06-15 02:23:11 EDT, you write: << Hi All, I have for sale a recording tape spool from Gary Numans recording studio. I won the spool at a Numan video disco. It is signed by Gary and is aproximately 9"x1.5". It was presented to me by Warren Cann from Ultavox who is only about 5 foot 5" tall. The spool is for sale for 20 english pounds plus postage depending on where it is to be sent. For the uk postage will be about 10 pounds and between 15-20 pounds overseas. Please contact me for any further information. Thanx........Andy >> Will someone please buy this spool????!!!!!!! =] Brad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:09:26 -0800 From: madhouse_@earthlink.net (Lyssa) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #339 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Okay, for those who feel my Numan-Young comparison was far-fetched, I would like to make a few comments. My apologies in advance to taking any attention away from Gary's music here and this is my last public posting on the subject. I don't know where you guys get the idea that Young didn't suffer a major dissappearing act...apparently you think that two chart appearances in 12 years means he never faded as badly as Gary, but Young's exit could hardly be the "Burn-out" he would have preferred. And so they don't play Gary in Irish pubs (never heard Neil in any of our local college/Irish pubs, but I'll take your word for it), Young doesn't have discos either. And there have been several covers of Gary through the years, even a band that does nothing but covers, so while it may not be on the same scale, I'd say it's part of the comparison. Pub play, however, doesn't make any money for the artist if all they're covering is public domain stuff. And CSNY as a means of making money? Puh-lease...it was CS&N who made the comeback...it just didn't go anywhere in 3 years of touring until they invited Neil along and made it CSNY again with new music rather than a trot through the glory days...kind of a repeat of their original treatment of him, not even adding his name to the band title for two albums until he threatened to walk, resulting in CSNY. The 80's however, were a big headache for Neil. Not only did he have personal problems, but he had major battles over content (gee, getting any similarities to another artist here?) with the so-called "major" label (giggle) Geffen Records. They may be bigger than Numa, but come on now, we ain't talkin RCA here. And as for press, what press? Some review buried in the back pages of The Times? Two lines and a star in Rolling Stone? I think you may be looking at much more recent stuff, as in AFTER the comeback. I'm talking ten to fifteen years ago. And even if he got those two lines, did he get airplay? Nope. Did Geffen back his albums with publicity? Nope. Could you easily get ahold of his music? Yeah, with a special order and an act of God. And he was considered cool back then? Geez, I never would have known it from the way people looked at my vinyl collection and said "Neil Young? God, is he still alive, that old fart?" His coolness, which was part of my whole point, came as a result of rubbing elbows with the likes of Sonic Youth and Pearl Jam, before which he was regarded as a moody hippy bizarro, plunking honky-tonk on a beat-up piano with matted long hair on PBS. My point was that Gary can achieve the same transformation by rubbing elbows with the likes of NIN and GKills. And 'cult status' is a nice way of saying he has a limited fan base, silly. Gary is regarded as a cult artist as well, it's just the cult is a bit smaller. It isn't his cult status that makes Young marketable, it is talent and the renewed interest in his music that comes directly (let's see if you can make the connection, just for once) from BEING THE INSPIRATION FOR A NEW GENERATION OF BANDS THAT ARE THEMSELVES POPULAR AND WHO CREDITED HIM WIDELY, AND TOURED WITH HIM, BRINGING A WHOLE NEW GROUP OF FANS TO HIS MUSIC! The only thing that I can imagine would make you not see the GLARING similarities is that you didn't suffer through Young's chartless wonder years and so have no idea what I am talking about. Geez, there are even little things, like both men never doing drugs but watching a close friend/former band member die from heroine addiction and writing a song about heroine addiction while they watched the process. At any rate, anyone interested in finding out about Young's comeback and the mechanism behind it, which was the whole point of my comparison, can go to the excellent article on the subject at http://www.furious.com/perfect/neil.html By the way, I think the Frank Zappa comparison has some good points, but do you have to mention that horrid Moon Unit/Dweezle thing? Gag me! We girls with SoCal accents are, like, still trying to live that one down, ya know? I'm sure Miss Marlene agrees =). However, almost all of your comparisons with Gary and the Zapp hold equally true for Gary and Young...changing musical styles at will, pioneering styles and methods, etc. The only one Young doesn't fit is having to make his own recording company, but then again, Neil's abhorrance for the business side means that to do so would have removed any enjoyment he had in his music. Still, he was forced to a much smaller label than he would have if his popularity from Rust Never Sleeps had carried into the 80s. Still, I hope everyone understands that the comparison I made between Gary and Young was in answer to the question about Gary's future with the release of Random and the possibility of touring with GKills and NIN. It was NOT a comparison between the two artists styles and or current pop status. And while the Zapp has always been revered here in SoCal, which in part comes from his hometown status here, he never quite got the recognition he deserved during his lifetime...and I certainly hope that Gary doesn't have to die to get his recognition. No on to Nick and his vent-fest about Gary's politics...I think this only goes to underscore the previous comments by listers regaring the fact that North Americans are less concerned about politics than Europeans. Who gives a rat's hindquarters who he voted for and how smug he was about it? We also seem to be more tolerant of a person's maturing process, including any stupid things they may have done or said when they were young idiotic fools...after all, I think most of us are quite grateful there was noone following us around with a tape recorder when we were 20. And Gary an ungrateful and greedy arrogant bastard? You must be reading stuff from the archives somewhere. Gary currently is one of the most fan-oriented artists out there, up until the point where it involves them dictating his music. And greed? Capitalist, maybe, but where is the greed? Wanting to turn a profit rather than going bankrupt is not exactly grounds for greed in my book. And forget not that you are talking about a man who acknowledged that there has to be a healthy bootleg industry out there and he doesn't mind them so long as they don't cut into his ability to keep making music, and to make music he needs to make a profit. The period that you speak of when he was "innocent" was more a period of naivite, and was truly when, to his fans, he could be accused of being an arrogant, greedy, and ungrateful bastard...thank God he grew up. Well, sorry about the length and the PMS spleen, and I do enjoy the discussion, all of you! Until next time, Lyssa Tearin it up..I'm living on empty... The Madhouse http://home.earthlink.net/~madhouse_/ Home of The Madhouse, Cry of the Celts, My Shadow In Vain, The Octopi Pit, and Selah's Cool Mac CyberPunk Central http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6115 Home of the CyberPunk Cafe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:39:06 +0100 From: NICHOLAS SULLIVAN Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #339 To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" This site is in construction and will soon have images on it check it out and leave me a message http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/3403/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:08:50 -0400 (EDT) From: KethScott@aol.com Subject: Introduction To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, I have been getting this list for about a year and a half, and thought it was about time to crawl out and introduce myself. My name is Keith Scott, I am 28 and Live in Ann Arbor, MI, USA. Have appreciated Gary's music since 'CARS' (like everyone else!). Although I lost track of him in high school, my interest in him was rekindled in college when I found a copy of Exhibition in a local store. I have tried very hard to find everything of his that I have missed.I don't even want to get into the best album/worst album debate, as it is truly a matter of personal taste. I also enjoy listening to other 80's music such as Adam Ant, Psychedelic furs, Missing persons, Blancmange, et al, as well as Pearl jam, Peter Gabriel, Nirvana, etc. Well, I feel more respectable having introduced myself! I enjoy being in your company and look forward to hearing from you all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 13:16:24 From: Richard.Poolton@dmgexhib.co.uk Subject: New member To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello everyone, My name is Richard and I'm new to your list. Just so you know I found out about the Numan mailist list through my membership of the Kraftwerk mailing list. It seems a lot of the KW fans are also into Numan. Like a lot of people I was gobsmacked back in '79 by Are Friends Electric. Up to '82 I think I had every track he'd issued barr I nearly ..............2. I saw him at the last "first" farewell concert at Wembley in '81 (the same year I first saw KW!). I'm looking forward to reading your postings. Regards Richard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 97 07:00:54 -0700 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Nick Fox - Loony Lefty To: "Gary Numan" Pardon the title of this message. It was meant as an attention-getter and serves only to illustrate absurdity by being absurd. On Sun, 15 Jun 97 01:00:01 CDT, Nick Fox wrote: >I think the press are fair to remind us Gary was a right wing fascist pig. >Its one thing to hold personal beliefs but to appear on Tv openly >supporting >a political party whose ideals were based on pure greed is another. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not the Conservative party is based on "pure greed" or not - please explain to all of us *NOT* in your ivory tower precisely what is wrong with a musician, or any celebrity, endorsing a political party? The ultra-leftists in U2 have done it - and they've gotta be *THE* greediest band out there, charging $100 per ticket on their current "PopMart" tour. A *VERY* large number of bands, and individual musicians, and individual celebrities, have endorsed political parties and/or particular beliefs/causes that they hold dear. Nobody ever condemns them for it. So why is Gary singled out? Is your problem the fact that Gary's on the right-wing rather than the left? If so, get your head out of your ass. You make an assumption that anyone on the right-wing is "greedy" and therefore evil. As a right-winger myself (and rather poor I might add), I take strong offense. You don't see me coming in here calling anybody who supports abortion "baby killers" (regardless of what I may or may not believe), so don't presume to tell us how greedy Gary is because he endorsed Maggie Thatcher et al. >I for one will never forget his smug attitude, and totally understand the >media reaction. I didn't see any of this occur - if there was indeed any "smugness" then perhaps a negative reaction by the media becomes easier to understand. But to hold it against him this long, even after he endorsed the *LABOR* party recently... no, one "smug" interview isn't enough reason. In fact, the real reason comes down to Gary's being on the right-wing, rather than the left. In the UK, as is the case in both Canada and the US, the media is liberal-dominated (about 95%). Anything not in line with liberal beliefs is immediately dismissed as politically incorrect (or, to use your terminology, "greedy" and/or "smug"). I am fed up to *HERE* of people like you (in the media) telling me they know what's good for me. It's happened again recently here in Canada, when Western Canada voted Reform (right-wing) and Ontario voted Liberal. The consensus in the media is that the Liberal party didn't adequately get their message across... the continuation of that thought being, if they *HAD*, then us lemmings out West would have "seen the light" and voted Liberal. In fact, we *GOT* the message and we told 'em to shove it up their collective asses. Face it, Nick - there's a *LOT* of different people in this world and we all, Gary included, have a right to stand up for what we believe in, even if it differs from your narrow perception of what's "right" and what's "wrong". To immediately brand Gary as "greedy" and "smug" because of his political beliefs is just as bad as any of the shit Hitler pulled in the 1930's. This whole political correctness movement is fascism, and censorship, of the highest order. >Incidentally the more knowledge I acquired about Gary the more I began to >dislike his >personality, put simply in my opinion he is an arrogant greedy and >ungrateful bstard. In the liner notes of the 1992 album "Machine + Soul", Gary wrote that he owed his fans "everything". Yeah, he's an ungrateful bastard all right. He has lost money on every tour he's ever done. Yup, he's a money grubber, Gary is. DAMN HIM TO HELL! >Having said all that there WAZ a golden moment before he became corrupt >with greed. Name me *ONE* band, or musician, out there who is *NOT* in it for the money. And when you do, I'll call you a liar. /--------------------------------------------------------- / From: The Desk Of Joey Lindstrom +1 (403) 606-3853 / EMAIL: joey@lindstrom.com numanoid@netway.ab.ca lindstrj@cadvision.com / WEB: http://www.netway.ab.ca/worldwidewebb/ / / "There's a reason 'Wheel Of Fortune' is on right after 'Jeopardy'. Once / you've been forced to choke down the foul-tasting tequila shot of your / own abject ignorance, it's nice to be able to bite into the refreshing / lime wedge of other people's incredible fucking stupidity." / - Dennis Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 05:50:52 -0400 (EDT) From: TELEKON@aol.com Subject: Random To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi all, just a short note from an avid reader of the digest but at the same time someone who contributes little (sorry, work keeps me busy). Anyway, went to the launch party for Random in Birmingham and WHAT a night!!.. Firstly, only about 4 or 5 tracks were played from the album but all sounded good in a club atmosphere. Gary himself turned up looking very relaxed and happy with a copy of EXILE which was later played.(2 tracks anyway). There was a back room in the club which you needed a pass to gain entry into. A friend of a friend had passes so we all went behind. This was great, sat next to the man himself before we all went back to the hotel for the party (Not much of a party, more of a get together) Everyone was all chilled out sat on various items of furniture and all over the carpet. There was no pretentious "I am a rock star so back off" just a decent man sat with old and new friends. I myself was sat talking to gary for a good 30 minutes (gloat,gloat) asking him about various things and gained snippets of info about forthcoming events. However I am conscious that this was a chat and not an interview and therefore respect gary's privacy. I will leak however that at the moment there a no plans for a single to be released of Exile due to limited sales and high cost, Numa as a business cannot release commercially low production single without financial backing. In the last digest Nicholas Sullivan asked who the tall Bowie lookalike is. Well, his name his Steve and has been for a long time a very good friend of Gary and although he lives in Sheffield trys to keep in close contact. As I have already mentioned, Tracks from Exile were played: Prophecy and Dominion Day. Not wishing to start an argument with anyone and it could be just the quality of the DJs sound system but..............Prophecy sounded very watered down and possibly over produced. Gone were the heavy drum beats thoughout the track, now mixed down to just keeping a rhythm whilst Dominion Day sounded disjointed although many of my now favorite songs had this first impression. Earlier demos of these tracks sounded raw and angry now they sound more commercial and record company friendly. However I will be the first to admit if I am wrong. Finally, Random. .......Brilliant, some outstanding tracks and a couple of craps ones (Jo the waiter and Cars). This album could be massive if promoted. Just think, if every fan of every band on the album bought a copy for their own particular track :-). The major HMV store in Manchester even have this album on a headphone stand on display allowing shoppers to listen before they buy. Regards Gary Pennill AKA Telekon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:03:13 -0700 From: "Robert Trousdale" Subject: Random, what else? To: Here I am, sitting in Pullman WA, quite possibly the worst cultural wasteland in the world.... In the mail is a package that has come from overseas... I first suspect it is from that D. Pedder guy in Australia who none of us ever hear from anymore. So, I tear it open. WHAT?!? There is a picture of Gary Numan in it! On the back, in the man's own handwriting is a note thanking me for participating and hoping that I enjoy Random, or at least bits of it. Participating in what? All I know is, I have a copy of Random two days before it was released to the unwashed masses and a handwriten note from Gary. I quickly write to both my digest friends (Sorry zig, lost your address again :-) and Joey L. reminds me "Hey you idiot! The contest!" Oh... yeah..... that. My impressions? Love it, love it. For the most part anyway. WHY ARE THERE THREE VERSIONS OF A.F.E.? I HATE that song. Why are there two versions of We are So Fragile? One would have been sufficient. Brilliant cuts: St. Etienne "Stormtropper in Drag" WOW! Gary goes Techno Gravity Kills "Peotry and Power" Do I hear any American labels out there??? Gary goes Grunge. EMF "We are Glass" I kinda miss EMF.... Jesus Jones "We are So Fragile" I kinda miss JJ.... Posh We just bought a copy of Dance ON CASSETTE and can't figure out the lyrics to "She's Got Claws" Underdog "Films" Nothing like my favorite Gary Tune at all, but awsome! Gary goes Rap Orb "Jo The Watier" Another of my least fav Gary Tunes, but well reworked into an Ambient peice. Kenickie "I'm an Agent" Awesome! Faithful to the original, AND updated... how did they do that? :-) Chris Holmes "Remember I was Vapor" Neat. Where can I hear more of this guy? Dubstar "Everyday I Die" I like it! Another faithful update. Deadsy "Replicas" I never liked this song either, until now. Pieces of S--- Peck.Slip "I can't Stop" Sorry, I like the original better :-) All three of the AFE covers... I even like Republica.. why couldn't they have done something cool like "Question of Faith"? Towering.Inferno "Metal" Uh, only Gary is allowed to sing THAT off key :-) The rest is kinda in between. I sure appreciate winning and all! Saved me $25.99! (Blows loud raspberry to Derek!) pbbbbbbbbbbbbbtttttttttttttttttttttt! Peace all! Escher ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:11:19 +0000 From: Michael & BethAnn Damrath Subject: Random and Richmond radio To: Gary Numan Hello All, Picked up my copy of Random this past Saturday with much excitement. Although I had to search diligently at Plan 9 to find it. No-one at the store knew what I was talking about, I finally found it in a small 'Tribute' section in the corner (incidently the celophane wrap said 'file with Numan'-oh well). Beleive it or not, I didn't get a chance to listen to it until Sunday night. In brief, I was both pleased, disappointed and pissed-off. Pleased: With the songs by Pop Will Eat Itself, Windscale, BIS, Republica, St. Etienne and Amanda Ghost. 'Friends' and 'War Songs' have always been two of my favorites, good to hear them so elequently reinterpreted. I'm not usually much of a fan of Techno/Dance, but 'Stormtrooper In Drag' was unstoppable! Disappointed: With Gravity Kills. There was so much hype about this track. Gary liked it, early reviews in this digest were such raves. The final listen was something of a let-down for me, and I like Gravity Kills' usual stuff. The Magnetic Fields, I Die:You Die-I didn't think it was possible for my favorite Numan song of all time to sound this lame. Posh- did she listen to the song once before singing it? Where did she get those lyrics? The Orb-what the fuck was that? Pissed-off: With Beggars Banquet. #1- Would it have killed them to make SOME mention of Gary in SOME kind of liner notes? If you missed the 'All songs written by Numan...' credit at the end, you would never even know this was a Gary Numan tribute album! #2- Couldn't they have found a few heavier hitters to sign up for this tribute? I know a large number of very popular artists have covered Numan's songs and have announced themselves as admirers- Trent Reznor, Beck, The Foo Fighters, Marilyn Manson, Smashing Pumpkins, Tori Amos and more. Where the hell are they? The packaging is pretty, though. By the way... at 8:30 this morning, during my morning drive to work, my local alternative radio station (WBZU-Richmond) played 'Cars' as their morning 'Retro-Clip'. If that wasn't cool enough, they followed it up with discussion of the man. They referred to the tribute album (although they claimed it was 'due out soon'), talked about the new album Gary was 'working on', and briefly talked about Gary's flying career and even alluded to his 'millionaire' status. I was sure good hearing Gary discussed on air. As soon as I got to my office, I faxed the radio station to let them know 'Random' was available, thanked them for playing 'Cars', and asked them to try to play more Numan material (Hey, it worth a try). That's all for now, I guess. Mike Damrath damrat@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~damrat ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************