Gary Numan Digest Thu, 7 Aug 97 Volume 1 : Issue 353 Today's Topics: Absolutely not, Nick Cash flow, URL, and the U.S. Postal Service Dark light FW: religion Gary Numan Digest V1 #352 hello, im sean Help! I missed #352! I'm A Poser.... ME! I DISCONNECT FROM YOU part3: Numan Goodies for sale NW again online Reintroduction to the Numan mailing list Replicas CD for sale!! Responses to Issues of Faith ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 13:43:52 -0800 From: Alyssa Jaraba Subject: Absolutely not, Nick To: Gary Numan > The darkness is fine by me but messages of child death are > are unacceptable and disturbing to say the least. > > Before anyone accuses me of over reacting I say > "listen to absolution again tell me that it doesn't include that msg > amongst others" > I concede that's one way of getting some raw power into his music > but why ? Nick, you're over reacting. I assume you refer to the line "Kill the children of Eden". Ever heard of metaphor, lad? The children of Eden are mankind in a general sense in literature. Also at times it refers to Christians. Not children as in little kids. Perhaps your Literature professors never mentioned metaphor, but one would have to seriously doubt that since British literature is full of it (metaphor, that is). As for his darkness, Gary has always allowed his personal feeings and taste to dictate the interest in his music, except for when he made the original "punky" stuff and perhaps in the period when he tried to get a little more pop appeal. Listening to Gary's music is a trip through his life. And I don't think of the song as disturbing, although it is dark, and contains many things in it that would be "offensive" coming from a person who professed a belief in God. Now as to whether Gary wants to believe in anything or not, I have no clue and wouldn't be so arrogant as to jump into his head and decide that for him, either way. He has said that he is an atheist, and I understand and respect that. However, he has also said that the subject of religion fascinates him, although whether that is from a personal, social, or poetic point of view, I have no idea. All this mucking about about what Gary wants and what Gary should feel and all that is kind of a bit more than I think we're allowed as fans. We can react to his music, his lyrics, and what he says in interviews, but his soul is really his business, isn't it? Let's give him some respect and go no further in our digs into his person than what he has been gracious enough to actually reveal directly. If you feel so inclined as to make statements about Gary that do not come from direct quotes, perhaps it would be best to say "I personally interpret that Gary is..." That goes for both sides of the argument. Out of respect to the Digest, the non-Gary-oriented portion of this discussion will be conducted through private e-mail An incredibly wise scientist (Albert Einstein) commented: "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." Cheers and respect, Alyssa -- Tearin it up..I'm living on empty... The Madhouse http://home.earthlink.net/~madhouse_/ Home of The Madhouse, Cry of the Celts, My Shadow In Vain, The Octopi Pit, and Selah's Cool Mac CyberPunk Central http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6115 Home of the CyberPunk Cafe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 04:11:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SomaCrow@aol.com Subject: Cash flow, URL, and the U.S. Postal Service To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Greetings. Amy mused, <> Amy, I feel your pain. I'm a kid, I have no source of income, I'm a Numanoid - rather an inconvenient situation ("What do you MEAN, Numan's first show in San Francisco in a decade is 21 and over?!"). After (*finally*) sending off my card today (more on that later), I have something like $4 to spare. Know what that'll buy me? Not a Numan import. It'll buy me a Hanson single and some bubblegum - oh, wait, that's redundant. So I, too, can't afford to be a completist or anywhere near one - cash flow and *ahem* availability impede that. My usual method is to make other people send me stuff for free. :-) Amy also queried, <> Well, it might as well be me, mightn't it? :-) The URL is http://members.aol.com/somacrow/theplan.html ; it can also be found on Outland and Scar, but go to my site, not those ones. :-) I just updated it a few hours ago, but only to mention how arduous it is for someone as clueless as me to brave the U.S. Postal Service. No offense to any American postal employees reading this - I have a healthy respect for you. ;-) Also, Dave said: <> Dave, you're a suckup (to the wrong people!) and we love ya for it. :-) (The purists yell: "And just where does NuWORLD rank, then?!") Random thought: Is it just me, or does the beginning of Peter Gabriel's "San Jacinto" sound a lot like the beginning of "A Dream of Siam"? Prolly just me, but then, we're all mad here. }:-) (Jason Smith: "Peter Gabriel?" Aussie Numanoids: "Random?" Everyone else: "Mad?") Have a nice diurnal anomaly Riana aka Miss Marlene Jr. ;-) "The #1 reason Bill Gates is thinking of buying CBS? He's www.nuts.com!" - Dave Letterman (I hear you cheering, Joey) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:22:26 +0100 From: Matthew Tamea Subject: Dark light To: "'Numannews'" Is it me or are the keyboards on Scar on Dark Light playing completely out of tune/wrong notes? A little too much to drink before the show perhaps? :-) Matthew _(/`$._(/`$._ _.$4/)_.$4/)_ mtamea@caci.co.uk http://www.caci.co.uk /(_,$4/(_,$4/ /`$8_)/`$8_)/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 97 12:49:00 PDT From: Tina Freeman Subject: FW: religion To: digest ---------- From: Tina Freeman To: nick Subject: religion Date: 05 August 1997 15:40 I'm sorry folks i have abstained from this religious debate long enough because of my very strong views i now have to have my say. Why does it matter if Gary is not religious why?? as long as he follows a decent moral living standard who cares. IMO religion was "invented" for 2 reasons 1,to provide a set of rules to live by in an age were poor health and moral depravation ruled and 2,to explain the then unexplainable. People take religion to seriously just look at us instead of being united in a common cause we are fighting amongst ourselves this happens time and time again how many wars have there been and indeed are still going on in the name of religion. I'm sorry but i don't need some unproven 'celestial' being to run my life for me i make my own decisions and follow my own imposed moral code i have no one else to blame if my life goes wrong. As for ' Absolution' well, as you can interpret the bible in a million different ways eg 1 Suffer all ye children to come unto me -just what did he mean by this surely he would be arrested if he said this nowadays. 2 After supposedly healing and helping so many people why has he turned his back on us now,why are there so many people dying in third world countries because of droughts plagues etc these people are completely unable to change their lives for themselves they are destined to a life of comparative misery.God is good God is loving hmmmm surely God is mean and vindictive. you can interpret the lyrics of absolution, because i have no other reliable source i prefer to take Gary's explanations at face value. Please don't bombard me with private emails you all have nothing to say to me that cannot be said through the digest i am not ashamed or embarrassed by my views. TF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:52:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Shropie@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #352 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi everyone, Music Boulevard have the following CDs. (www.musicblvd.com). Shipping and Handling is free and I received Random in 3 days. Archive-$8.33 Here I am-$13.99 Premier Hits-$12.99 Skin Mechanic-$13.99 Story so far (3 cd box set)-$45.99 Random-$12.99 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:54:41 -0600 From: Bob Payton Subject: hello, im sean To: numan@cs.uwp.edu hello, im sean. im a "gen-x"-er, still in high school. im in a band, car81mob. in which i play snyth and sing. other bands i enjoy include: nine inch nails buzzcocks underworld marilyn manson cake like about 6 months ago, i got interessed in late 70's - early 80's new wave when pete shelley (buzzcocks) re-released "homosapien". i enjoyed the disc, and later i saw a "best of gary numan" 2 disc set. it had "cars", "down in the park", and "metal" so i picked it up. wow. gary numan is amazing. "are 'friends' electric?", "m.e.", "the life machine", and "please push no more" just touched a cord deep inside me like no other artist has. talk to you soon sean "if only i could fill my heart with love" -cure "closedown" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:49:24 -0700 From: vickers Subject: Help! I missed #352! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Dear Anybody, My machine had a "personality malfunction" when down- loading #352. In other words, we had a technical. Please can anyone send me a copy? Maybe some kind person would like to check with me first, as if our machine protests at one digest, it would go berserker getting 12 of the same!! Yours Numanly, Paddy Vickers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:37:35 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: I'm A Poser.... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Yes, I have just been listening to my Live at the Roxy Tape 1977, great stuff, brings back some memories I can tell you. Well I have been following the Numan Digest for a few weeks now and it seems that my last posting never made it, so here goes! Techno Army - anyone else got this CD? What do you think? IMHO it's a pile of proverbial poo! Reading between the lines on the notes from Gary, it seems that he is not too impressed either. He mentions that although he is flattered that someone would want to remix his records, the direction taken on this album is far removed from any he would have taken. All I can say is that they have murdered quality tunes with pop style simple, almost child-like remixes. Anyone want my copy?!! Next, the Random CD, I have not heard this album in it's entirety, so I stand to be corrected here, but what I have heard I am not impressed with, in fact I almost cried at the terrible cover of Are Friends Electric, who on earth is performing this track, please put them out of my misery. I won't be buying this one that's for sure. Religion, well there is a saying here in the UK that in business you never discuss religion and politics as they are the two most subjects which cause divisions. Why, because you open the way for instant discrimination for a start. I personally am a very spiritual person, I say spiritual and not religious because I firmly believe that religions are formed to suit the people, but I try to follow what God wants. That's why religion has been the greatest cause of wars in human history, because they do not follow God, just mans way. But we are all responsible to God individually, so if Gary chooses not to believe in God then that's his own decision, who are we to question? I have not heard the Absolution single which the Digest members have been talking about recently, probably more proof at the lack of availability of Gary's material even in his home Country. Someone mentioned a shop in London devoted to Numan and DM, can they let me know what it is called and where it is? Thanks. Anyway, that's enough from me for now, I am looking forward to seeing Gary this year on tour. I saw him last year in my home town of Milton Keynes and he was brilliant. The atmosphere was electric, even Gary commented that Milton Keynes was the best venue he had played to and wished that he had filmed the tour here rather than the miserable lot in Manchester. And guess what, he is playing Milton Keynes again this year, you know I will be there! Craig. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:13:40 -0700 From: thirty5gramclub@webtv.net (Jef Encinas) Subject: ME! I DISCONNECT FROM YOU part3: Numan Goodies for sale To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey! More goodies here! have fun...................... MACHINE & SOUL (numacd 1009) UK , nine track compact disc.===$12 ..................... RANDOM (bbqcd 195) CD promo! double disc set in clear jewel case, track listing on sticker in the back, coolness!==$12 posters .................................. BERSERKER (approx 2 x 3) blue on white UK poster, some gummy stuff is notice- able on the four corners.==$6 ................ GARY NUMAN (awesome colour poster featuring a "drawing" of Gary in PP era pose, blue, purple and red backdrop, graphic yellow lines and pictures of PP and Replicas below, and room below to have written where he would be appear- ing next! Da bomb!====$20................... vinyl ..................................... PHOTOGRAPH (German-best of album) a steal at $100!.......still have the "WARRIORS' picture disc as well as the one for "BERSERKER" Thanks kids! see ya soon! NuJef (hee he) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:27:52 -0000 From: Markus Dietrich Subject: NW again online To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hello Numanoids, I want only mention that NUWAYS, a german site, is again online after several month. new URL: http://www.fen.baynet.de/~na468 It isn't actually a first class site, but it the more Numan-Sites around the world the better the chance to reach more and more people :-) bye, Markus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 97 16:19:00 PDT From: Scott Abfalter Subject: Reintroduction to the Numan mailing list To: NUMAN Hello Numan fans! I was a prior member of the list at some point nearly a year ago but I got a new job in a new state (Melbourne, Florida USA) and new email accounts. It's taken me until now to rejoin the list. I have been a strong fan of Gary's music ever since I first sat enthralled watching him on Saturday Night Live. The next day (many years back) I rushed out to get an albumn (Telekon was the first one I bought, I think) and was instantly hooked. I was a fan club member (it just recently lapsed, have to take care of that too) have every albumn other than Automatic and Strange Charm (the latter I have a bad copy of on tape) and that includes the excellent new Random compilation. By the way, for me the stand out hits on Random are Gravity Kill's "Poetry and Power" as well as Pop Will Eat Itself's "Friends". I love the sound of utter disgust in the voice of the singer when he is singing "Your.....gonna put those _scabs_ on me!". I am disappointed that no one did "Noise, Noise" which I've always loved. And I still have not been able to completely listen to the entire wretched butchering of my all time favorite "Down in the Park" that was so poorly covered by Jimi tenor. If I never hear another note by Jimi Tenor my life will be better for it! I am willing to bet that I am the only person on this list who actually likes the rap version of "Films". I dunno, as first I didn't like it but it grew on me! Go figure. I am looking forward to seeing Gary get a record deal; I hope it falls into place. Remember, the best thing you can do to support Gary is to get word of mouth out as much as you can. Have people listen to him, request him incessantly on the radio. If Exile sells well then Fate will smile upon our favorite musician! Could life be so kind as to actually have Gary tour the US? God! I would _love_ a chance to see him live! Other than Numan (my consistant favorite, year after year after year) I listen to a lot of techno music like: Prodigy (my newest kick) Front 242 Front Line Assembly / Intermix and unexpectedly the very untechno Bob Marley! Gary has inspired hours of daydreams enjoying the images conjured up while listening to his music (no doubt much different from the daydreams he intended but hey, music is an interpretive thing, huh?) Let's all give him support for the excellent job he is doing. Sacrafice was an _excellent_ albumn (more than a satisfactory apology for Machine+Soul!) and Exile looks to be able to top it. Other nonfanish data: male, 31, married, no kids, computer programmer, competitive fencer Yours, Scott Allen Abfalter sabfalter@aircom.com -or- abfalter@spacey.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:04:02 -0500 From: machman@interaccess.com (Jeff Tolva) Subject: Replicas CD for sale!! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello all! I've had an offer on the EEC copy of "Replicas" on CD for $15 USD. If anyone cares to offer me my original asking price of $20 USD by August 10th, it's yours! Again, it's a single CD of the album "Replicas" from 1995 by MCI Music and catalog number MUSCD509. It's quite a collectors item I'm told and I've only played the thing once (so it's still in EXCELLENT condition). If you're interested, e-mail me by August 10th! Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:10:06 -0500 From: Bookman Subject: Responses to Issues of Faith To: Gary Numan For those who care to read, and listen, bear with me... Brief Responses to Digest #352: [As for the beleiving in the god issue. Who cares....!] As a Numan fan, and a Christian, Gary's beliefs really don't affect me that much. [As far as I'm concerned questioning some one elses beliefs is nothing more than racism.] I agree, yet **intelligent** discussion of theology can always be of benefit. [Mankind would be a hell of alot better off once he forgets about religion and race. (no pun intended)] Again, I agree. Discrimination and prejudice have no place in a civilized society. [Religion was and always will be created and maintained by those who wish to possess the power.] Where the hell did you come up with that notion? Unless, you are referring to the early Catholic Church, and the modern-day mega-rich tele-evangelists. Still, religion (or the more preferable word "Faith") was not "invented" by any one person or persons other than Jesus Christ and The Father. [> 1.Gary does not believe in God - I know, I've asked him, and recently. > 2.Gary does not want to believe in God. =] If he doesn't believe nor even wants to, why has his music always been laden with references to God, or the non-existence of? Methinks he doth protest too much. [And as to the idea of others praying for an atheist's soul being "repulsive" - I must agree with you there. It's not only patronizing, it's annoying. :-)] To all of you (Gary Numan included) who find it repulsive to have a caring human being pray for your eternal life; well, I hope you become positively sick, because I'll be praying for all of yours. A rather lengthy response to #351. Matthew (not the gospel) wrote: [I'm afraid your dogma leads you to a rather insulting conclusion, i.e. atheists really DO want to believe in something higher than themselves. On the contrary, many true atheists (and not the agnostics who think they are atheists) tend to be more than happy with the knowledge that the human brain and evolution are all we have.] All right, if the human brain and evolution are all we have, then let me reach you on that level, to show you just why those who reject God are foolish beyond belief. In both of the following scenarios, I'm doing my best (most of the time) to live according to God's Word, while Matthew denies there is a God. 1. Let's say that Matthew and all the other non-believers are correct: there is no God. So, when I die and Matthew dies, the same thing happens to us both. We are buried, and rot, and nothing more. No life after death, no eternal soul leaving our bodies. That could very well be the case, though I don't believe so. 2. Now, let's suppose, that just maybe, me and the billion other Christians are correct, and God does exist. What will happen in this scenario when both Matthew and I die? Think long and hard about it. God will grant those who believe in Him eternal peace, while those who reject Him, He will reject also, and they will be forever separated from Him (hell, to some people). Do you get what I'm saying? Isn't it worth the minor "inconvenience" and the happiness it brings to believe in our Creator, if it means *eternal* life? Even if God doesn't exist, isn't a Christian life a good way to live, anyway? You know, do unto others...? I know what some of you are thinking, "well, I'm a good person, I just don't believe in God." Well, you can be the best person in the world but without faith and belief in Him none of it will matter. As another aside, the life of Jesus is historical fact, not just biblical fiction or theory. And if man had invented the whole story of Jesus anyway, it certainly would not be what we find in the New Testament (four different accounts, no less). What bothers me about atheists is not so much their opinion about God but what kind of moral standard they think we should live by. Should we just live lives self-servingly, not caring about anyone or anything but our own needs and desires? What about the issue of murder? Since this life on earth is all any of us have, to take it from someone else should also be punishable by death, right? I know this is a lengthy diversion from Numan topics, but just as others are offended by Christians' beliefs and respond accordingly, I felt I had the same right to do so when my beliefs are offended. Wishing Gary all the success and happiness in the world... Mike T. bookman@trib.infi.net "You believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who have not seen, but believe." -- J.C. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************