Gary Numan Digest Sun, 10 Aug 97 Volume 1 : Issue 354 Today's Topics: Absolution discussion. Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 (4 msgs) Hello from Belgium. Hi, again.. Introductory message for the mailing list Italy More my conversation On religion.... skip this message unless you like to think. Straight from the horses mouth Stuff to Scott Abfalter Where's the Vette? YAWN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:27:47 +0200 From: DE VISSCHER Luc Subject: Absolution discussion. To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hi Everybody, I am not at all surprised to know the sales of Absolution were so low even though it is a great song. It was already mentioned that this song was launched in holiday period, so a lot of people just couldn't buy it or the sales were spread over several weeks/months. Anyway, too long to be registered. Also the distribution sucks. Even in specialized import shops in Brussels this was almost unable to get hold of. Luckily I got hold of it through Beryl. But for me the main reason is that PEOPLE DON'T KNOW. And how on earth can someone buy the record if they don't know it has been released? I will give you 2 additional examples: I am a big fan of Alphaville and John Foxx also. It is almost by accident I found out that Alphaville released a CD in 1994 (!!!) "Prostitute", and I thought they stopped after 1992. If I knew, I would have bought that CD in 1994, but now I only bought it a few weeks ago (and I'm very happy for it because it is great), and through their mailing list I found out that they have a new release also in September. Leaving messages on the mailing list concerning Gary, I can assure you that a lot of people think Gary stopped as of 1994. (small note, the new CD of Alphaville will be called "Salvation". Weird, isn't it?). And John Foxx released 2 CDs this year ("Cathedral Oceans" and "Shifting City"). I thought also he was out of the music bizz since 1985 with "in Mysterious Ways". And "Shifting City" is one of my favorite albums ever now. This I could only know through Internet. So, with millions of people not yet connected, a lot of information gets lost. I'm off for holidays now and will only be back end of August. Take care, Luc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:11:42 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Sorry, but I only received the first two subjects on this digest? Also, I received an attachment which my mail system does not recognise, 'winmail.dat', what is this? Best Regards, Craig. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:16:49 +0100 From: Vision Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 To: Gary Numan I like to be removed from the e-mail mailing list, thanks Jesper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:26:42 -0400 (EDT) From: RimmaNimma@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu what the hell is up with this mail? Date: 97-08-07 03:17:38 EDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Sender: numan-request@cs.uwp.edu Reply-to: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numa) To: numan-members@cs.uwp.edu (Numanews Member) File: winmail.dat (1991 bytes) DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Received: from mrin72.mail.aol.com (mrin72.mail.aol.com [152.163.116.110]) by mrin63.mail.aol.com with SMTP; Thu, 07 Aug 1997 03:17:37 -0400 Received: from cs.uwp.edu (cs.uwp.edu [131.210.1.4]) by mrin72.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id DAA01602; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from datta@localhost) by cs.uwp.edu (8.7.6/8.7.1) id BAA26770; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:00:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199708070600.BAA26770@cs.uwp.edu> To: numan-members@cs.uwp.edu (Numanews Members) X-Admin: Add/Remove requests to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu Sender: numan-request@cs.uwp.edu Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 01:00:01 CDT From: numan@cs.uwp.edu Reply-To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 97 17:07:24 From: "Michael Rowe" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #353 To: "Gary Numan" It's been a long time since I felt compelled to post, but I just picked up Random today, and I am totally blown away. FIrst off, how often can you get a double CD for under 16 bucks, and second, The impact of Gary's music is once again shown by the wide styles of musical interpretations of his music. I also picked up the premier hits and will be listening to it soon. Michael Rowe Team OS/2 http:\\www.normnet.org\~savoyard\ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:49:01 +0200 From: DE VISSCHER Luc Subject: Hello from Belgium. To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hi there, I'm new on the mailing list, and a GN fan since 1979 (AFE, remember). I didn't know the mailing list existed and it is thanks to Matthew Holbrook (Hi Matthew!) that I could subscribe. As a matter of fact, I suggested to create one not knowing that it existed already, because I am also a big Alphaville fan and I am on their Utopia digest also. Well, what more can I say, I have seen Gary in Brussels in 1980, and in Wembley in 1981, and every single tour since 1983 (I go to London Hammersmith/Astoria and now Shepherd's bush every time there's a tour). I believe I have all CDs and CDsingles (including a bootleg CD live at Roxy's in 1977). My other favorites are John Foxx, Rupert Hine, Alphaville, The Nits, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, etc. etc. I have a monthly telephone contact with Beryl to see what is going on, and she keeps me informed of releases and sends me concert tickets and the Babylon series, or difficult things to find in Belgium. I also collect the newsletters and yearbooks for the other Belgian fans (Hi Joeri!), and also order their concert tickets. Personal info: I live close to Brussels, married, 2 boys (one of 5.5yrs and one of 7months), I work as Sales Operations Manager for Bridgestone/Firestone Europe (tire company). Hope to meet you on the list! Greetings, Luc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 02:46:22 -0400 From: brezniakdavid@webtv.net (David Brezniak) Subject: Hi, again.. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu To the lovely little lady who told me kindly that I was a "kisser-upper" your site is very nice, too. I don't kiss butt, but I do realize that many of the websitemasters out here never get a "Thank-you." I am currently working on a Numan site of my own (no, Miss Marlene, you can't have the URL yet...you have to pay me for it...) and many users don't realize how much work actually goes into it. By the way...nice to see a few new WebTV=99 faces here in the digest. And, yes, I am creating and designing my website on a WebTV, so if you know anything about it--(soon to hit U.K.) you'll know how aggrivating it can be. No, I don't need a tissue, I'm not crying. Andy, where's the MRS. MOP tape??? LOL!!!!! One final note, who forwarded the whole darned digest over and over again, what like 3 times...gee, thanks. It's ok, you're forgiven. Please next time, follow the easy directions at the bottom of the digest, so we can all live together in harmony. Later, Gang!!!!! Dave something. thought you'd get it, ay Marlene!!!! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:51:29 +0100 From: "M. & J. ALLEN" Subject: Introductory message for the mailing list To: To whom it may concern I'm Michael , 30 years old and have liked Gary Numan since 1978. I am a semi professional musician playing bass guitar and keyboards in different bands around the North East of England. My role in bands is similar to the role Ade Orange plays in Garys band. My main ambition is to play in Garys band. Other bands I listen to are, Level 42, Republica, any of the most popular stars mainly from the eighties. My favorite musicians are as follows, Singers Gary Numan, Celine Dion, Saffron, Tony Hadley(Spandau Ballet) Bass Players, Joe Hubbard (Warriors album) Joe is one of the most complete musicians I have come across and I would advise any Numan fan who thought the bass playing on the Warriors L.P. was good (especially The Ice Man Comes) to check out Joe Hubbards solo albums. You'll find him in good record shops under the Jazz section and his band is called Hubbards Cupboard. Also a bass player that no one could ever forget Pino Palladino (I' Assassin) A pupil of Joe Hubbard, Pino will be remembered by Numan fans for the bass lines on Music for Chameleons and We Take Mystery to Bed, and a haunting bass line on A Dream of Siam. He is an incredible master of his instrument and can also be credited for the the unforgettable classic of Paul Youngs Where ever I lay my hat. The bass players Gary has used since these two masters have been good but come nowhere near to polishing the shoes of the two mentioned, especially Nick Davies who played bass very badly and most of the night out of tune on the Exhibition Tour and Ghost L.P. This man was obviously not used to playing a fretless bass. He should try Joe Hubbard for some lessons. Anyway sorry for the slaging Nick but beeing a bass player myself you know what I mean. Thank you for putting me on your list. I read edition 353 with great interest and replied to a couple of the question asked, so I'm really getting into the swing of things now. Cheers Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 10:31:41 +0000 From: stefano@glamm.com Subject: Italy To: Gary Numan I really hope to see one day Garry over here. C'mon Garry don't be lazy. stefano art director www.glamm.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:10:49 +0100 From: Stephen Catton Subject: More To: Numan Digest Hello folks. I am really looking forward to the possible world wide record deal that Gary may sign and it was great to here him on his telephone update line in such high spirits. I wonder just how many 'real' fans will stay with him if he gets very successful. So many other bands have lost so called fans because they become popular. I have to say that it is nice to see new people discovering Gary Numan like Sean. It just go to show that his music does appeal to today's younger generation if only they get the chance to hear it. I would like to pass on my good wishes to Gary and his Gemma and hope that they have the quiet wedding that they want. I do hope that some of you folks from outside of the UK can make it to some of his concerts it would be great to meet some of you. I don't care a fairy's armpit what Gary's religious feelings are but I would like to add to the religious debate with the following . In the UK the blasphemy laws only apply to Christianity and so it is possible to discriminate against any other religions without any problems from the law (employment etc.). Obviously this is wrong in today’s multi racial society but the only sensible solution to this that I can think of is to remove the blasphemy laws altogether because otherwise the Christians, other religions and no believers would have to recognise, by law, other gods...... and wouldn't that be a lively debate!!!! That's is all for now. Kind regards Stephen Catton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:56:13 +0100 From: "Nick" Subject: my conversation To: "Gary Numan" ---------------------------------- > Nick, you're over reacting. :-) > I assume you refer to the line "Kill the children of Eden". Ever heard > of metaphor, lad? Please do not patronize me Lyssa. >The children of Eden are mankind in a general sense in > literature. Ok I can accept that as a possible excuse > Perhaps your Literature professors never mentioned > metaphor, >but one would have to seriously doubt that since British > literature is full of it (metaphor, that is). Look for the sake of clarity lets simplify things. The children of Eden = Mankind/Christians = Men Women and Children Metaphor or no Metaphor the result or meaning is the same. Anyway the point I was trying to make was IMO Gary perhaps should have transcended the Anti-religious cliché. > Now as to whether Gary wants to believe in anything or not, I have no > clue and wouldn't be so arrogant as to jump into his head and decide > that for him On information provided recently to the digest I made the brave assumption that Gary doesn't believe in the Dark Side. I don't think I was being arrogant ? However, he has also said that the subject > of religion fascinates him, although whether that is from a personal, > social, or poetic point of view, I have no idea. All this mucking about > about what Gary wants and what Gary should feel and all that is kind of > a bit more than I think we're allowed as fans. I disagree a little. IMO this is a two way situation and as fans we can only react to the accuracy of the information we are provided. It is not wrong to try to fill the missing gaps until all of data is in hand. Rumors and speculation of course will thrive, that's part of the fun. how boring it would be if this digest just became a lifeless information database. As for what we are allowed as fans well that is something of a Grey area. Let's not draw a line. > If you feel so inclined as to make > statements about Gary that do not come from direct quotes, perhaps it > would be best to say "I personally interpret that Gary is..." That goes > for both sides of the argument. I am sure digest readers are fully aware that my controversial statements are based on my personal opinions and nothing more. > Cheers and respect, > Alyssa > -- And you Lyssa take care. nICK fOX If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. -- Albert Einstein just one more Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously. -- G.K. Chesterton I like that :-) more quotes http://www.ccad.uiowa.edu/~smaddhi/wiseQuotes.html ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 08:16:00 PDT From: Scott Abfalter Subject: On religion.... To: NUMAN All I know is that 'eternal damnation' is far too harsh of a punishment for any crime --infinite punishment for a finite crime. And if that crime (sin) is simply refusing to believe something without proof then I am certainly guily. I'd refuse to worship a being so evil that he would consign me to eternal damnation just because I would not believe in him simply because of word of mouth evidence. Not only would I not worship him "just in case he exists" (how foolish) --I'd flat out reject him/her/it/. Now, there are those who argue that this has nothing to do with Numan but I have to disagree. In Sacrafice and now with Exile he is using a lot of religious/spiritual images. There are very evocative and will conjure up a myriad of feelings within listeners and due to the nature of these images a lot will be religious and or spiritual (some positive and some negative). I'd go as far to say that Gary probably would enjoy the fact that his music is generating this sort of response --it shows that people are listening and thinking about it! Scott Allen Abfalter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:24:47 -0400 (EDT) From: SomaCrow@aol.com Subject: skip this message unless you like to think. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu hello all. first off i'd like to say that - maudlin fool that i can be when i'm writing early in the morning, as now - i mixed up the url i gave slightly. i put an exact copy of the original page at the url i gave here in the digest, so you can use that one, but the original is at http://members.aol.com/somacrow/numan/theplan.html . surely i should get a cookie for this. well. now that i've humbled myself. random stuff: your site is welcomed back, markus; scott, the rap "films" isn't all bad, it grew on me too, like either a fungus or a small adorable child tends to do; and greetings sean, so nice to find another numanoid in my age range. well either nice or a threat to my (exalted) position. :-) welcome anyway, good luck pursuing the numan way of life. may we make up for lost time. more on the question of faith (this is the bit where you all groan and scroll down): bookman said: <> as you wish. i still find it patronizing but i won't try to stop you, that's useless; you have your rights. (you're praying for our eternal lives but you wish sickness upon us? never mind.) you know my position, and if you don't i'm forcing it on you now. :-) no animus. and you posed Pascal's Wager to us, the "why *not* believe in God?" bit. unfortunately i don't gamble. you respect my views and i respect yours and it will stay that way so long as we remain respectably logical (which i can be if i try). i will say starkly that i don't believe anything is coming to me after death and i prefer to make my own rules (often based on u.s. law, we do have some good ones) in life. maybe it's worth it to some to wager that there is a God, but conversely, if there really is no God then we've all wasted a *lot* of breath. cheers to a life well-lived, by whatever standards. marching on: <> reductio ad absurdum. i don't think atheism is necessarily an expedient viewpoint. i maintain that i am a good person, though not a Christian, and that what i do in this life *does* matter, because imo it's the only one i've got, and the only one where i can make any difference at all. so i'm hardly going to spend it thinking only of myself when i've so much to give to the world at large before i go (long boring messages to the Digest, for example). i love and help people, too; i simply don't bring religion into it anywhere. i'm not an immoral person - i don't run around killing people. i am a member of amnesty international and i am unsure about where i stand on the death penalty, but i can definitely say cold-blooded murder is wrong. killing in defense is blurrier - self defense, defense of one's country or religion. the line between defense and assault blurs further here so i'll let it alone. i will say only that i think you have unfairly portrayed all atheists as being selfish, singularly foolish (for aren't we all?), and immoral, and i admit i could probably stand to learn a thing or two about Christianity. there are the bad apples in each camp's barrel. but until we all understand each other in this Digest and everyone has voiced her/his opinion, or we've just given up, this topic isn't going to die. as you can see i love debate, about theology as well as other things. riana doth not protest too much; she simply likes to argue. :-) gary may sing about salvation rising from the ground and such just because he likes it. maybe he's just being an incendiary (for all intents and purposes, it seems to have worked, grin!). maybe he just likes the menacing, gothic (!) way the lyrics and attendant music sound. as alyssa said, it's none of our business and all this noise noise is us either defending/explaining our beliefs or taking pot shots at each other because it's nothing to do with gary when one gets right down to it. it's so much fun though that i don't object to this debate's continuing. :-) peace! enough. "freedom of expression doesn't make it all right" - pwei (their own stuff is, yes, incredible.) just a short while left to send your cards - write write write or a big mouse will eat you. (sorry, it rhymes in slovak.) love and napalm, Riana "tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - mary oliver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:04:20 -0700 From: steven.beckett@virgin.net Subject: Straight from the horses mouth To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi all As a Numan fan for the past 18 years it was fantastic to speak directly to Gary on Thursday 7th August in rather unusual circumstances. Traveling clockwise around the infamous M25 motorway at around 10pm on Thursday I spotted a black Corvette Stingray in the middle lane & thought to myself, "I wonder?". As a pulled alongside yes it was Gary looking as fed up as I was stuck in the traffic. I was a little lost for words but managed to ask when Exile is coming out & he said October. If you read this Gary, it was great to speak to you after all these years & see you anywhere other than on stage. Sorry but I forgot to say Good Luck for the big day, but GOOD LUCK & very best wishes to you both. Steve :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 07:52:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Andy Subject: Stuff To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Not at all - I think that that track, Jimi Tenor, and Moloko's AFE are the best 2 tracks on there... <2. Now, let's suppose, that just maybe, me and the billion other Christians are correct, and God does exist. What will happen in this scenario when both Matthew and I die? Think long and hard about it. God will grant those who believe in Him eternal peace, while those who reject Him, He will reject also, and they will be forever separated from Him (hell, to some people).> Of course if us athiests are right then it means we can have 70 odd years of guilt free fun on earth rather than living up to a fairy story! :) Anyway, please can we stop the preaching now ? I had 15 solid years of it when I was a kid.... Pretty much as long as we dont harm anyone else. Ummm...uhjhh...duh...umm.... I'm against it. ___ Gary also neednt worry about being banned from anywhere. Could be a goiod idea to write something incredibly offensive in order to be banned. It always helps. actually a good song about paedophilia and child murder would be a great way back into the charts.... :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 02:40:38 -0600 From: Bob Payton Subject: to Scott Abfalter To: numan@cs.uwp.edu if you want to hear a great cover of "down in the park", check out marilyn manson's version. its on the single "lunchbox" it was and is my favorite manson song, even before i got into numan. take care sean "talk to me. talk to my machine." -underworld "surfboy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:12:16 +0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Where's the Vette? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu We are so fragile, they could give us a war just to keep us amused..... Lets hope this discussion on religion does not turn into a war between digest members! Does anyone know if Gary still has his white Corvette? I must admit I always thought Gary had excellent taste, especially in 'Cars'. Well it is obvious to me that I am not the only person who thinks the Techno Army CD is utter rubbish, from the responses I received from the last digest, I can only say that the best use for this item is a rest for my mug of coffee! I would say ashtray, but I don't smoke. I do have other items which may be of interest to the digest members, they are all original cassette recordings of various Numan releases. You see I will be replacing these for CD's and don't have any need for the cassettes. Here's the list: Cars/We Are Glass Cassette single (cigarette style box) Living Ornaments '79 Living Ornaments '80 Newman Numan Metal Rhythm Skin Mechanic Cars - E.Reg remix EP Exhibition The Fury - Limited Extended Mixes As I said, these are all on cassette, so if you are interested let me know by private e:mail (cland@acl.memec.com). Can anyone tell me what the total number of Asylum releases was, I am led to believe that there were three? What are the track listings for each release? What was the record quality like? Anyway, must rush now. Craig. cland@acl.memec.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 15:37:06 -0400 From: Matthew Roberts Subject: YAWN To: "INTERNET:numan@cs.uwp.edu" Mike T. gave some very old, very tired reasons for believing in God. Sinc= e few people will be interested in the detailed arguments for why he is wrong, I won't post them here. Suffice it to say, don't be fooled. Anyone else who wants to "proove" God's existence, please study the Ontological, Teleological & Cosmological arguments first. Then study Immanuel Kant's rebuttals. Then if you've got anything new to say, please= go ahead. Matthew "I would love to believe that when I die I will live again...but...I know= of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking." = Carl Sagan shortly before his death. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************