Gary Numan Digest Sun, 9 Aug 98 Volume 1 : Issue 458 Today's Topics: 1982 Rock Yearbook "Where Are They Now?" article Common Sense Prevails!!!!!! Exile logo..is it a rip off? Fear Factory FINALLY GOT IT !!!!!!! Gary Amadeus Beethoven/ re: Is the Exile logo a ripoff?/ Popularity Gary Numan Digest V1 #457 and Barry Lynch Here's my two cents Is the Exile logo a ripoff? Logo Similarities Lyric Fun Nu-Tickets Re-introduction(!) of member small clubs or larger venues tapes of recent tour Telekon reissue - remastered or remixed?? The Brit Bad Guy and Numan Things tolerance What Numan Means to Me/Tubeway Button? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:41:42 EDT From: Hopey77@aol.com Subject: 1982 Rock Yearbook "Where Are They Now?" article To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Here's an article I have from the St. Martin's Press annual Rock Yearbooks. This is the 1982 "Where Are They Now?" article for your enjoyment. Lovely pic with it too. If anyone has the 1981 Yearbook - email me the article as Act of the Year, it's the only year I have missing! I find this article kinda funny - don't know who wrote it. GARY NUMAN When you proclaim that "This Is the Year of Gary Numan" as this book did last year, the underlying assumption is that Gary Numan is at least going to be around for a while. 1981 however saw Gary Numan retiring - from live gigs at any rate - and thus doing the best possible for his reputation short of actually dying: leaving the public to want more while his stock was high. "Telekon", Numan's fourth album, was released in September 1980 to a barrage of disdainful critical sniffing - not that that affected its sales, or the hit singles taken from it (wha? - Hopey). Numan's real crime in the eyes of the critics was not so much to do with the music as with the myth. Numan saw the music business much too clearly for everybody's comfort and worse still, he was painfully honest about it. He simply did not say the right things. Numan never made any great claims. Instead he always gave credit for his sources (the dreadfully unhip Ultravox) and was always quite candid about his limitations, saying his talent was simply as an arranger of noises. He was also well aware of the ephemeral nature of much of his appeal and now, having become a pop star so easily, he was bored and wanted to quit while he was ahead. Heresy! But quit he did. After having taken his spectacular road show on a tour of Britain and America (where the lack of a hit single like "Cars" meant that "Telekon" did less well than "Pleasure Principle") he bade farewell to live performances - which he had never liked - at London's Wembley Arena in April. Two live albums featuring material from the previous two years were then released separately and together as a box set. That month the box set (Living Ornaments '79 and '80) was at number one in the British album charts while the individual albums occupied the number 8 and 12 positions at the same time. Gary Numan will continue to make albums, though his contract allows him to deliver them when he likes (Ha ha!- Hopey). For the future however he is more interested in video - video cassettes were released of his Wembley farewell and the new album - and the new album - and in flying his small plane on a three week trip round the world. It's doubtful whether the critics matter much to Gary Numan any more but now that all the fuss has died down I don't think a reassessment of his music can be very far off. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 11:27:05 +0100 From: Mark Pearson Subject: Common Sense Prevails!!!!!! To: Numan Digest --------------1310A99965C49EF726AAF196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, To all my Numan friends straight OR QUEER (I hate that phrase even used by gays, it suggests abnormality, not my view) Many Thanks for responses to my Homo-Yawn mail. I have to be honest and say that I expected an absolute tirade of abuse from a bunch of lunatics threatening to track me down and boil my rabbit. Quite the opposite. I received many e-mails off-line in support of my posting. A big Thx to each one of you (You know who you are). To Barry and Florian who had the balls to stand up publicly I also send many Thx. To Valerie I REALLY hate the term "Queer" even when you apply it to yourself. I agree with a lot of what you wrote and didn't with some, but you seem to have missed the point. The point is as follows: If Gary was, I dunno, into collecting Barbie dolls for example, I would hate to see a gazillion Barbi type postings here each week as they would belong on a different forum. I accept your point regarding muso's going on about DX-7's etc etc but that is a little different as it relates DIRECTLY to what makes us all Numan fans, his MUSIC. OK, I suppose I am interested in Gary's sexuality for curiosities sake, you know, "Is he, isn't he?" and stuff but THAT'S IT. I really couldn't care less beyond that. Honestly, it's BORING!!!!!! That's the long and short of it, it is soooooooooo dull. You made mention of some vicious comments and verbal attacks, I don't believe those comments were aimed at me as whilst what I wrote was strong it was, in no way, rude or offensive. I think I am a reasonably intelligent and sensitive person. It is not in my nature to be deliberately offensive or confrontational. Unfortunately I am not a very tolerant person when it comes to things that annoy me. I like to feel that I would always time for important issues but not bullshit. Look, no offence to anyone, I could sit here and tell y'all about my gay friends etc etc but that is usually the opening line of a homophobic ("I have lot's of gay friends but.....") and frankly I am not obliged to defend myself. Those of you who know me know the deal with me. Suffice to say I spent the night before my wedding in a gay club in the west end of London. It was brilliant!!!!!!!! I just feel that there is a time and place for everything and feel, like most of you, that this is not it. Go discuss this on a gay bulliten board or something. I think you also know by now that I am not threatened in the slightest by this subject. In closing this nightmare subject I'd just like to go back to Valerie and address one or two of her closing remarks: Let me ask you, if your words were intended to hurt, why do you feel the need to hurt anyone? And if they weren't so intended, do you think you've expressed them in a way that would avoid hurting others? Personally I don't feel Valerie intended these remarks to me but to another posting that was a little more, ehh-hemmm, vitriolic shall we say. I'll respond just in case. No my remarks were not intended to hurt. There's not a person on this board who would agree with you if that's HONESTLY what you feel. If you come back and say they were aimed at me then you're just going for the sympathy vote mate. Yes, I think I expressed my feelings fairly and articulately without personal attack on people for their sexuality. I have time for all Races (Yes even the Scots who hate us with a passion, don't deny it William & co.) Creeds, Colours and Sexual Persuations. I just cannot tolerate stupid people (Not directed at anyone in particular), Sorry, sue me!!!!!!!!! I'd like to invite all my fellow numanoids to put aside their hostility and be open to really listening to what we queers have to say. We are his fans, too. He invited us in; those lyrics were not mistakes-- he meant them to be there. No-one cares what you have to say as "Queers" for Christ Sakes. People might however give a shit what you have to say as people. You piss me off with stuff like this. You complain about fuckin homophobia then announce that you want to set yourself aside and provide a different perspective because of your friggin sexuality (Calm down Axey.......... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 .........aaaahhhh that's better now chant mantra "Ommmmmmm"). Sorry, lost it again there for a minute. Look, you seem like a really OK person and are obviously sensitive about this so I will TRY to not rip into you here. YOU HAVE A VOICE REGARDLESS OF YOUR SEXUALITY. You also have friends here on the Digest who will also listen to what you have to say, regardless....... I don't mind controversy and debate-- believe me, I can debate with the best-- but I enjoy it much more when it's done with intelligence and compassion. I think I am resonably intelligent and I KNOW I'm damned compassionate. If you want to debate this issue further (No God Pllleeeeeaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!!!!!!!!) e-mail me directly. Please let's not bore the ass off others with this. Honestly, you have my address, if you want to go on with this I really don't mind. As Gary fans, we all know what it is to stand alone and have others misunderstand or reject us. We certainly don't need to treat each other that way. There's room in here for us all. I quite agree. Stop setting yourself to one side then with this "I'm gay so I have special things to say" attitude. Have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine if it's as nice for you as it is here today in London. I used to take terrible shit from my muso friends coz I loved Numan. My serious muso's were all into Genesis,Floyd, Level 42 etc etc. They soon changed their minds when I got them to join Young Thing's Don't Scream which was a serious Numan tribute band. They loved it and all still listen to the recordings we made in the 80's. You see, education is a wonderful thing. Barry, your Dick Van Dyke comments were uncanny. Were we seperated at birth? I work for a company in the USA and constantly have to listen to bad English accent impressions. They all think we talk like Dick Van Dyke, so to piss them all off I walk round the office when I'm over there going "Gawd bless yer merry pawpins", it floors them. Yes, I also agree with the Brit villian thing too. Who could forget Brion James in Tango & Cash (I think) "Oim gonna cat yower fackin throwt yoo fackin tossa" or the inimitable Robert Englund as the hit main in the hilarious "Further Adventures of Ford Fairlane". Wise ass Americans think they're being funny. Sorry I wasn't your American with brains. I want to state here and now before I get showered with crap that I love America, the people and everything about the place. Barry is clearly a racist loser and I wish to totally disassociate myself from any scathing comments he may have made. He clearly is the product of a disturbed childhood who deserves to be locked away forever (Phew!!!! I think I just about got away with that one). So, here we are. I feel like Gary Shandling summing up at the end of his show. Sorry I got verbal diahorrea today. I guess I vented off again. But I really hope this is the end of this crap once and for all and we can all get along being pals brought together here by our affection for Numan and his music. OK, 2 choruses of "All you need is love". I hope you've all joined hands now!!! Now I will practice what I preach and try and keep future posting restricted to Numan related subjects. Luv on Y'all Axey. --------------1310A99965C49EF726AAF196 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, To all my Numan friends straight OR QUEER (I hate that phrase even used by gays, it suggests abnormality, not my view) Many Thanks for responses to my Homo-Yawn mail. I have to be honest and say that I expected an absolute tirade of abuse from a bunch of lunatics threatening to track me down and boil my rabbit. Quite the opposite. I received many e-mails off-line in support of my posting. A big Thx to each one of you (You know who you are). To Barry and Florian who had the balls to stand up publicly I also send many Thx. To Valerie I REALLY hate the term "Queer" even when you apply it to yourself. I agree with a lot of what you wrote and didn't with some, but you seem to have missed the point. The point is as follows: If Gary was, I dunno, into collecting Barbie dolls for example, I would hate to see a gazillion Barbi type postings here each week as they would belong on a different forum. I accept your point regarding muso's going on about DX-7's etc etc but that is a little different as it relates DIRECTLY to what makes us all Numan fans, his MUSIC. OK, I suppose I am interested in Gary's sexuality for curiosities sake, you know, "Is he, isn't he?" and stuff but THAT'S IT. I really couldn't care less beyond that. Honestly, it's BORING!!!!!! That's the long and short of it, it is soooooooooo dull. You made mention of some vicious comments and verbal attacks, I don't believe those comments were aimed at me as whilst what I wrote was strong it was, in no way, rude or offensive. I think I am a reasonably intelligent and sensitive person. It is not in my nature to be deliberately offensive or confrontational. Unfortunately I am not a very tolerant person when it comes to things that annoy me. I like to feel that I would always time for important issues but not bullshit. Look, no offence to anyone, I could sit here and tell y'all about my gay friends etc etc but that is usually the opening line of a homophobic ("I have lot's of gay friends but.....") and frankly I am not obliged to defend myself. Those of you who know me know the deal with me. Suffice to say I spent the night before my wedding in a gay club in the west end of London. It was brilliant!!!!!!!! I just feel that there is a time and place for everything and feel, like most of you, that this is not it. Go discuss this on a gay bulliten board or something. I think you also know by now that I am not threatened in the slightest by this subject. In closing this nightmare subject I'd just like to go back to Valerie and address one or two of her closing remarks: Let me ask you, if your words were intended to hurt, why do you feel the need to hurt anyone? And if they weren't so intended, do you think you've expressed them in a way that would avoid hurting others? Personally I don't feel Valerie intended these remarks to me but to another posting that was a little more, ehh-hemmm, vitriolic shall we say. I'll respond just in case. No my remarks were not intended to hurt. There's not a person on this board who would agree with you if that's HONESTLY what you feel. If you come back and say they were aimed at me then you're just going for the sympathy vote mate. Yes, I think I expressed my feelings fairly and articulately without personal attack on people for their sexuality. I have time for all Races (Yes even the Scots who hate us with a passion, don't deny it William & co.) Creeds, Colours and Sexual Persuations. I just cannot tolerate stupid people (Not directed at anyone in particular), Sorry, sue me!!!!!!!!! I'd like to invite all my fellow numanoids to put aside their hostility and be open to really listening to what we queers have to say. We are his fans, too. He invited us in; those lyrics were not mistakes-- he meant them to be there. No-one cares what you have to say as "Queers" for Christ Sakes. People might however give a shit what you have to say as people. You piss me off with stuff like this. You complain about fuckin homophobia then announce that you want to set yourself aside and provide a different perspective because of your friggin sexuality (Calm down Axey.......... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 ..........aaaahhhh that's better now chant mantra "Ommmmmmm"). Sorry, lost it again there for a minute. Look, you seem like a really OK person and are obviously sensitive about this so I will TRY to not rip into you here. YOU HAVE A VOICE REGARDLESS OF YOUR SEXUALITY. You also have friends here on the Digest who will also listen to what you have to say, regardless....... I don't mind controversy and debate-- believe me, I can debate with the best-- but I enjoy it much more when it's done with intelligence and compassion. I think I am resonably intelligent and I KNOW I'm damned compassionate. If you want to debate this issue further (No God Pllleeeeeaaaaaasssseeeee!!!!!!!!!!!) e-mail me directly. Please let's not bore the ass off others with this. Honestly, you have my address, if you want to go on with this I really don't mind. As Gary fans, we all know what it is to stand alone and have others misunderstand or reject us. We certainly don't need to treat each other that way. There's room in here for us all. I quite agree. Stop setting yourself to one side then with this "I'm gay so I have special things to say" attitude. Have a lovely day and enjoy the sunshine if it's as nice for you as it is here today in London. I used to take terrible shit from my muso friends coz I loved Numan. My serious muso's were all into Genesis,Floyd, Level 42 etc etc. They soon changed their minds when I got them to join Young Thing's Don't Scream which was a serious Numan tribute band. They loved it and all still listen to the recordings we made in the 80's. You see, education is a wonderful thing. Barry, your Dick Van Dyke comments were uncanny. Were we seperated at birth? I work for a company in the USA and constantly have to listen to bad English accent impressions. They all think we talk like Dick Van Dyke, so to piss them all off I walk round the office when I'm over there going "Gawd bless yer merry pawpins", it floors them. Yes, I also agree with the Brit villian thing too. Who could forget Brion James in Tango & Cash (I think) "Oim gonna cat yower fackin throwt yoo fackin tossa" or the inimitable Robert Englund as the hit main in the hilarious "Further Adventures of Ford Fairlane". Wise ass Americans think they're being funny. Sorry I wasn't your American with brains. I want to state here and now before I get showered with crap that I love America, the people and everything about the place. Barry is clearly a racist loser and I wish to totally disassociate myself from any scathing comments he may have made. He clearly is the product of a disturbed childhood who deserves to be locked away forever (Phew!!!! I think I just about got away with that one). So, here we are. I feel like Gary Shandling summing up at the end of his show. Sorry I got verbal diahorrea today. I guess I vented off again. But I really hope this is the end of this crap once and for all and we can all get along being pals brought together here by our affection for Numan and his music. OK, 2 choruses of "All you need is love". I hope you've all joined hands now!!! Now I will practice what I preach and try and keep future posting restricted to Numan related subjects. Luv on Y'all Axey. --------------1310A99965C49EF726AAF196-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:24:20 -0700 From: "Craig" Subject: Exile logo..is it a rip off? To: After looking at the Exile logo and the Queensryche logo there are certainly similarities. They both have points on them (Queensryche has 8 points while Exile has twelve)Apart from that Exile looks professionally done while the Queensryche logo looks more like the "Bat Signal" See ya Craig " There are three types of people in the world, those who can count and those who cannot" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 01:04:24 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Fear Factory To: "Gary Numan" Just a quick note to say that Steve Webbon tells me that it certainly wasn't Beggars Banquet that denied permission for the "Cars" cover to be included on the Fear Factory album or as a single. Indeed, I got the impression from him that he was as disappointed as we are. So if permission was indeed DENIED from somewhere... well, the only place that could have occurred would be at Eagle or Cleopatra. Yet you'd have thought they might have said something at the time Gary flew out to Vancouver to RECORD the bloody thing... :-) / From Joey Lindstrom joey@lindstrom.com / Interocitor Dot Net http://www.interocitor.net / / I went to court for a parking ticket. I pleaded insanity. I said, / "Your honor, why would anyone in their right mind park in the passing / lane?" / --Steven Wright ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 19:36:00 -0700 From: "richard carter" Subject: FINALLY GOT IT !!!!!!! To: "gary numan digest" Howdy !!!! King Richard here...... well, I finally got TUBEWAY ARMY re-release....I love it, sounds good on CD, (my original copy was in album form) and the LIVING ORNAMENTS 78 was great. I think the sound is pretty good compared to some bootlegs I have heard, and own !!!! The music store I work for had a contest that we won a gift certificate for $ 15.00, so I'm going to use that to get REPLICAS next... but of course the one I NEED is BESERKER, hope that one gets released. See you guys later....... King Richard GA Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 13:15:23 -0700 From: dagonet@netwide.net (Don McCrum) Subject: Gary Amadeus Beethoven/ re: Is the Exile logo a ripoff?/ Popularity To: Gary Numan Here's my $.02 for this...month. >Queensryche's "Promised Land" album....Exile logo.... I always thought that the Exile logo looked like a Vorlon ship (or maybe a Shadow ship) from Babylon_5. With maybe a little Triskelion from Star Trek thrown in. (In other words, it "looks" sci-fi/ futuristic.) Could also be a tribal tattoo.... Futuristic yet primal, simple yet complex, obvious but not. Description of artwork associated with GN and GN's music. (I think the artwork is perfect. Whoever did that artwork probably had a great understanding of GN's music.) I had to think about this for awhile, then I heard something that surprised me -- "Dead Heaven". (Don't lynch me -- hang through this -- at the end, you can still lynch me, if you want.) The coincidence seems to be that "rock composers" (for lack of a better term) take fairly simple pieces (or "basics") and layer/ overlap/ combine them in such a way that the whole effect is far superior to any one aspect. Beethoven and Mozart (yes, I am going to compare GN to Beethoven and Mozart...) were also very skilled at this. One of the themes (the "famous" one) to Beethoven's ninth symphony is fairly simple. Imagine a little kid, skipping down the street, humming the theme to Beethoven (da-da-da-da...etc). Pretty simple, isn't it? Not too out of place. Gary Numan did/ does the same thing. Listen to the intro to "Dead Heaven" and think "Walk This Way" (Aerosmith). To take the same (or at least, similar) beat and create a totally new song out of it. ("Dead Heaven" doesn't even vaguely sound like "Walk This Way", once the intro is over -- obviously.) You can see the similar drum lines, but that's it. (I'm not implying GN lifted the beat, either consciously or unconsciously. Just that GN's created a drum line and "Numanized" it, making it his own....) And Beethoven had a whole orchestra to work with. GN has/ had (basically) drum, bass, guitar, keyboard, and his one voice, and achieves an excellent sound/ layering/ complexity with it. (Got my respect, at least.) (Also, see GN's version of Satie's Gymnopedie to Ravel's version of the same piece.... Orchestration is orchestration, whether their's an orchestra there or not....) That's the talent in "new" music. ("New" as in compared to J.S. Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier.... btw, has anyone else ever noticed how the main guitar riff in Lenny Kravitz's "Are You Gonna Go My Way?" sounds like a baroque keyboard ornament ?) While I'm babbling..... Some lyricists tend to make their lyrics layered in meaning (cp Andrew Eldritch "in illusion, the comfort lies" means that illusion is comfortable or that illusionary comfort is a lie...?) , while GN presents his lyrics in such a way (sings them) so that words tend to sound different. (cp "Magic" when he sings "warm" -- could be "warm", "warmer", or "woman".) I assume this is intentional. Let's the listener personalize the music a little, if only subconsciously. Also, the words seem to flow together better, creating a unity for each song. And, of course, he throws in a layering here and there and everywhere: "I believe in love and wonder" -- sarcastic, yet not.... "films" as metaphor for life.... "absolution" being a religious term applied in a decidedly "non-standard" religious manner.... "are 'friends' electric?" taking on a totally unseen level (to me, at least) when a female sings it (not taking about cyborg sex any more, are we?).... re: popularity Just to keep things in perspective.... Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. Beethoven didn't die as rich as he could have, had he just "sold out" just a little.... Poe died in an alley.... Led Zeplin (spelling ?), The Doors, Black Sabbath, and The Beatles sell more CDs today than they did when the bands were still around (and in one piece).... "Greatness is rarely realized in the artist's life time." and "It is better to die knowing you have created art, than to die holding mediocrity's gilded hand...." (Can't remember if I made those up or if I heard them somewhere....) Anyway, I think I've babbled enough for today.... Peace D * * * "In other words, don't help the bastards out by doing away with yourself." -- Billy Idol dagonet@netwide.net/ ICQ #12788034/ AIM: MOAPOG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 11:07:14 -0400 From: Glen Sutton Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #457 and Barry Lynch To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Barry, Americans racist? Where HAVE you been? But seriously, it is my theory (based on years of being an American and an Anglophile)that most of the films/TV you speak of are actually based wholey or partly on British literary works, and thus retain the "English-ness". Some examples would be the James Bond series, Avengers, the Prisoner, etc. Sometimes it is just that the actors used are British (Star Wars for example was filmed in Britain and thus the actors/characters had English accents). Another thought is that we Americans still find the accent exotic and wonderful, yet at times, some of the best "evil villians" are brilliantly meanacing with their aristocratic "posh" sounding accents, and thus they get cast that way. My friend Ernest (reading over my shoulder) suggests that perhaps the accent alone (regardless of nationality) tends to add to the character, and seperates them from the others, and yes there is the tendency for the sterotype for cash. What I mean by that is that Hollywood is still in the Black hat/White hat mentality (again thanks to Ernie for that input)and figures that logistically, American audiences who fit their target demographic (White males 18 -35) will want to see a particular thing and still cast the leads as strong white heterosexual males. The women will be sexy and have large breasts, and the bad guy will be some archeytypal villian, a Snidely Whiplash of some sort. However, as modern filmakers have begun to expand their horizons, and more non-American films gain popularity in the States (Australian, British, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc), then the public at large beign to accept a greater range of film types and charater composition. Hollywood begins to see the "green" and value in making more diverse films. Don't forget, each segment of the population here in the States feel the same way about their specific demographic, whether Homosexual/Lesbian, African-American (to name but a few "minority" groups who have been stereotyped in Hollywood for years), and desire greater access to films thatthey can identify with. Inversely, British music has always been influential and accepted, not to mention, revered in the States. And that lends itself to say that American people generally don't care about nationality, but what entertains them, what affects them emotionally, yet unfortunately, still accepts what Hollywoods throws at us. Yet the tide is turning as we (as a country) get older and wiser, and less restrained by old conventions, fears, and mindsets we open ourselves to greater diversity in cultural influence. This is why the "world music" scene is so popular and growing here in the States, and yet we look at our own past and revisit the swing era and so on. This is why I believe artists like Gary Numan and his contemporaries are getting a new audience, because Americans are throwing away many of their old opinions and becoming more open to the world around them. Well, thats all... I think Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 06:34:17 -0500 From: "Troy L. Walters" Subject: Here's my two cents To: Gary Numan End of Gary Numan Digest Just, kidding. But, unless you have an ounce of humor in ya -- scroll down now! This is digest is turning into nothing but a pissing contest. But the truth is, Gary has answered the question: homoerotic, or not homoerotic? The answers have even been posted in recent digests, including direct quotes from his autobiography. However, as with ALL music -- one's perception is how that listener will interpret it. You can argue until you are dead, and it will do no good. Be what you want, hear what you want, and say what you want -- just don't condemn others for doing the same. It's happening on both sides of the coin. Hypocrisy is rampant lately! Case in point: > I and my queer sisters and brothers have posted comments describing our > happiness at encountering homoeroticism in his songs; why is that an > objectionable thing? Why does that threaten you? > As the reader, the YOU becomes me. And ME isn't threatened by homos or heteros either one. Perhaps other "you"s on the list are offended by THE WAY that these statements have been made. Sorry, but there is no such thing as THE ONLY interpretation of any song. Even if the author has a specific idea in mind, and someone interprets it exactly opposite of the author's idea -- it does NOT make it wrong. Why must any "queer" have to need acceptance so badly as to condemn others -- by doing the EXACT same thing, in reverse?! Personally, that is one thing that Gary's music has "helped" me with -- not giving half-a-fuck what others think or say about me. I am very secure with who I have become. This homo, nomo crap is no different than the religious crap. The two extremes attempting to convert each other and those in the middle who don't give a shit get hit with all the crap. NO ONE on this list (or any other) can convince me that any "god" exists -- or that shoving my dick into another male or receiving same is "the" way to go. It's not a moral issue. It's a personal issue, at least it is for me. The idea is not appealing to me. As for the acceptance of the "queer" in anyone who requires it, as my wife has said: "I don't mind that my brother is gay. But when we go out to eat and he says, "Oh, I hope we have a cute waiter." -- (shivers) GROSS! There goes my appetite." In the midwest, some people really enjoy "rocky mountain oysters" -- that's hog balls (testicles) for those of you who don't know -- but even the mentioning of it turns MY stomach! But I don't go around call those who do eat them "ball biters." Nor do I hear them whining about "I'm a ball biter, why doesn't anyone like me?" I get on my knees for NO ONE! (religion: before a god. Homo-dom: another man) You get my point. After all, isn't that what this forum is all about? Well, shit on me! You're right. It's NOT about that. I nearly forgot, with all the preachers and the "queers" shouting about. Oh, yeah, Gary Numan is suppose to be the subject. Gary Numan's music is NO different than ANY other music ever created. Gary Numan's music is COMPLETELY different than ANY other music ever created. Both are true. How can they both be true -- because I am not you, and you are not me. Deal with it! > P.S. Why is it that in American Films, the 'bad guy' always has a British > accent, even if he is not supposed to be British, and the 'good guy' ALWAYS > has an American accent, even if he IS supposed to be British (esp. > Disney)?????? > > You PC Americans aren't being racist are you? > Just for the record: THIS American is not racist -- I HATE EVERYONE! ={;~{)} And... > Homosexuality is a sin. That's why hell is a bottomless pit. > Only if you believe in such nonsense. Homosexuality or hell, either way. Neither makes sense to me. Of course, that's only MY opinion... -- Troy L. Walters Indiana, USA tlwalter@tctc.com http://www.tctc.com/~tlwalter Heading straight for the Numan-llennium -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... © ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 14:08:46 +0100 From: "Laurent F. Somers" Subject: Is the Exile logo a ripoff? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) >Anyway, I was a bit stunned at the cover art. If Gemma, or whomever it >was that designed the Exile logo hasn't seen this, I'd be really >surprised. Take a look at the web page I've set up below and compare >for yourself. Bear in mind that the Queensryche album is dated 1994! Well you might also check out a band called - hmm... - Deicide or something similar. I remember coming across one of their CD's and on the cover I thought I was seeing the Exile logo. When I looked closer, I noticed the shape was the same. I also noticed that the logo seemed to be two ram skulls on sticks (the top 'wings' of the logo). Don't remember what the rest was. Your mileage may vary. Greets, Laurent Somers shadow@nett.is the Dark pAges - Poetry of passion and sorrow: www.nett.is/~shadow/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 20:22:57 -0700 From: fgeer Subject: Logo Similarities To: numan@cs.uwp.edu There does appear to be some similarities between the Queensryche " Promised Land " logo and Gary's " Exile " logo . However , I believe the " Exile " logo has more in common with Magic Knight Rayearth . Check it out sometime . Cool show ! Deranging by harmony Beyond the mundane order, Your voices lay siege. You lodge On the pitched reefs of nightmare ... S. Plath ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 22:51:08 -0700 From: fgeer Subject: Lyric Fun To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I like noise , I suck art . I like romance When it's in my car ..... I would willingly give up love for eternity , if eternal peace would be the result . Love is hell ! Fred Geer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:53:00 +0100 From: "Andrew West" Subject: Nu-Tickets To: "Numan Digest" This message is for Mike Purvis. Sorry it was'nt done direct but for some reason my email was being bounced back. Anyhoo here you go... Hi Mike I was just reading the digest when i came accross your email. I have just purchased my tickets from the following number: 0171-771 2000 11:40 Friday 7th August The only tickets i could get were way up in the balcony at the top tier. Still it's better than not going at all. Let me know if you have any success as when i rang they answered straight away! Later Andy Croydon http://pages.city2000.net/~donut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:14:10 +0100 From: colin_l Subject: Re-introduction(!) of member To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi fellow Gary Numan fans Somehow got insubscribed from the list after joining at at the start of the year. My name's (still!) Colin Linskey 33 years old, so I was 14 when Are 'Friends' Electric ? made the chart breakthrough for Gary. I still believe Sacrifice is a lot better than Exile and glad to see Extended Version of Dead Heaven on Dominion Day CD single. Unfortunately can't got to Shepherds Bush Empire concert in September; does anyone know if this will be filmed for video release ? Seems very likely -the reception from the fans will be brilliant. It's going to be hard to beat the excellent Dream Corrosion video after the disappointing Berserker and Micromuisc videos. Was the lights really out of sync as seems woefully apparent in the Micromusic video ??? Comments please... My other favourites include Celine Dion, Louise & Giorgio Moroder Bye for now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:42:18 -0800 From: alec way Subject: small clubs or larger venues To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Re:- Machman's "which do you prefer" scenario--- I think that it'd be cool to see Numan in the US in the small, intimate setting just one more time and then maybe a tour on a larger scale via opening for something "bigger." Maybe he could then have the opportunity to fully exploit the theatrical nature of his music + lyrics with video screens showing odd images, robots, lightshows and other assorted Sci Fi Numan arena details. That's what I'd like to see, an updated Teletour. It's just that the small club thing was so awesome for his diehard US supporters. It was very...surreal, or absolution-like, or something. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 11:45:47 EDT From: tweibrecht@juno.com (thomas m weibrecht) Subject: tapes of recent tour To: numan@cs.uwp.edu if anyone taped some of the gigs, and feels it in their heart to do some trades, please get in touch...got lots to trade...thanx...tom w _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 16:34:32 +0100 From: "downstat" Subject: Telekon reissue - remastered or remixed?? To: "Gary Numan" Digesters, > From: "William Wilson" > > 1,What happened to the Viola track and one of the"ARP" tracks on > "Remember I Was Vapour",they are completely missing(the same goes > for"Joy Circuit",but I haven't identified exactly the instruments > missing yet) > > RIWV sounds better on that middle bit to me - it always sounded way too > high in the mix that gurgly synth sound - why its not there though, I > have no idea! Hadn't noticed anything missing off Joy Circuit, happy to > be proved wrong though. The sound quality is fantastic as someone posted > earlier - you can really hear the bows scratch across the strings. Having heard all the good reviews of the releases I gave into temptation yesterday and bought Telekon. Excellent sleeve design and notes as usual. I'd agree that the sound quality is fantastic. However take for instance The Joy Circuit. The instrumental piece at the end is a completely different mix. The viola is brought right out to the fore, and virtually takes up the whole of the right channel. Whereas on the original Telekon (both the vinyl and Asylum Telekon) you can only just pick out the viola amongst all the other goings on. It is competely different. Whilst I think that it is superior, the question is *Is this how Gary really intended it to sound?* Which version is the *true* original? The same goes for some instruments on the instrumental middle bit of Remember I was Vapour. Like William points out, here they are *completely* missing. Sounds really weird. I am not sure if I agree with all this buggering about. Its left me completely confused. > Perhaps we should compile a list of tracks and differences on these > latest reissues - there do seem to be a few...sounds like an ideal item > for the FAQ if it still exists! Good idea. What does Gary himself make of these new versions? Austin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 06:44:39 -0800 From: alec way Subject: The Brit Bad Guy and Numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > P.S. Why is it that in American Films, the 'bad guy' always has a British > accent, even if he is not supposed to be British, and the 'good guy' ALWAYS > has an American accent, even if he IS supposed to be British (esp. > Disney)?????? > You PC Americans aren't being racist are you? Yes, Americans are racist. Not all of them. But as a Pop Culture, we Americans are VERY anti-British and have been for a long time. At least since the end of WWII. According to American Pop Culture, Brits are all small-minded, slightly or very evil, all have bad teeth, all are arrogant, come from the Country of Bad Food. American Pop Culture hates Britain. Now, all that is changing a little bit with things like the Spice Girls. At least we've learned that unabashedly Brit girls can be sexy. Maybe we didn't know that before, I don't know. Hollywood's Brit transplants are just considered Hollywoodians with accents. Gary Numan didn't change any this, sorry to say. I've always noticed that the "bad guy" has a British accent in Big Budget American films. I've always thought that sucked. This is especially true in Planet Schpeelboig. (You should have seen how people reacted here in LA, at least everyone I knew, when England lost to Argentina in the World Cup. Scary. Even a fascist dictatorship is cooler than the UK.) Also in American cartoons, the bad guy is English, usually some sort of supernatural English guy. Americans hate the British out of some sort of "American Revolution" pride thing + a general ignorance of anything outside of the U.S.A. This is part of the reason that it's still OK in American Poop Culture to treat Arabs and Indians (East and, even now, American) in a less-than-sensitive, non PC, manner. Sorry for the non-Numan tangent, but this is a good point that Larry Lynch brought up. I wonder if Gary realized these truths of American Pop Culture when he lived in LA. --Alec ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 18:23:49 PDT From: "William Wilson" Subject: Things To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi! All, A couple of digests ago someone asked if the version of "We have a technical" on the remaster was a different version from previous releases,I don't think it is,just MIXED differently during the remaster,it sound like the background vocal has replaced the main vocal,but this gives the track a sort of rawness.All in all I have liked the remasters that Beggars have put out,including all the slight differences with some tracks.I feel it gives us numan fans something interesting to buy rather than all that receiver rubbish(the tracks ain't rubbish,just the CONSTANT re-hash of the same old stuff) to the guy who was accusing Gary of ripping off Queensryche with the Exile logo....GET YOUR EYES TESTED!!!!!!,I can see NOTHING in the Queensryche album cover that would make me think "MMM,I think Mr. Numan has ripped off this group for his Exile logo" William Wilson (Glasgow Crazie) MUSIC OF QUALITY HAS NO FEAR OF TIME (PETE WYLIE,WAH!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:04:32 -0700 From: obscure@blueneptune.com Subject: tolerance To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Benjamin Iglar-Mobley wrote: >As Gary fans, we all know what it is to stand alone and have others >misunderstand or reject us. We certainly don't need to treat each other >that way. There's room in here for us all. Beautifully said... Lisa ________________________ obscure@blueneptune.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:20:34 EDT From: Hopey77@aol.com Subject: What Numan Means to Me/Tubeway Button? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Homoerotic imagery aside, I thought, in my opinion, Numan was about alienation, paranoia, moods, fear and lust of machinery, fear of being human, fear of success and failure, fear of fans. 'Nuff said. Anyone got a spare Tubeway Army button/badge up for grabs? Fake is OK - I want one for my jacket. I almost lost the one I have... Hopey ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************