Gary Numan Digest Thu, 13 Aug 98 Volume 1 : Issue 459 Today's Topics: #2 .LOGOS An apology re: la lengua de los Anglos Austrian - Numan Website Disclaimer: All statistics are easy to manipulate. Exile Logo Gary Numan Gary Numan Digest V1 #456 hi everyone! I Can't Stop It's a Small World lyrics the cash cow and a dark tale Micromusic 5 v 0 Dream Corrosion :-) Moral Nu-Tickets once more into the breach Secrets.... Sharing The Wonderfully Entertaining Inexperience Of a 19 year old.... Sorry Sound Corrosion Stuff Telekon Live & I Die lyrics Touring Question ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:53:51 -0400 From: "D&T WHEELER" Subject: #2 To: "Numan Digest" hey all i subscribed a few issues ago, and since have just been reading to see what goes on in here 'here am i just me and my walls to blame' very interesting conversations.... thanks to all who answered my questions to those with stuff for sale that i would love to buy.... my wife would kill me! 'don't you have enough of that stuff already? the cds cost a fortune.....' (i spent about $400 through the fan club, pre-eagle/cleo) gotta nu question for all/anyone... does some of Gary's songs/lyrics stem from survival of abuse (the private kind - domestic violence, sexual abuse, etc.) or is it just from the public (live audiences, critics, etc) as a survivor, he sings what my head thinks sometimes/some songs now, for the biggest idiot question of the century, although i've listen to Gary for years, what exactly is DITPark about - i know, it's sci'fi or some s**t, but about what? personally, as an abuse survivor, 'we are not lovers we are not romantics we are here to serve you' touches home i would appreciate any and all takes on the song, personal or from Gary (book, print, whatever). Thanks in advance 'me, i disconnect...' tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:10:34 EDT From: SisterSurx@aol.com Subject: .LOGOS To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Re: this debate over whether or not Numan ripped off the Exile logo from a Queensryche album, I can, at least say, that Gary definitely ripped it off from somewhere. A friend of mine buys Kerrang! (a UK metal magazine) and enclosed with it one week was a clothing magazine selling rock-chick clothes and tight black jeans, one page had t-shirts, vests, etc mostly with the Exile logo on each of them. I asked my friend if it meant anything to her and she said no! Of course Gary has already ripped-off the official Medical Sign for the Sacrifice album, and I'm sure I've seen the logo used for the t-shirts on the Premier tour somewhere too!!! If anyone is interested in seeing the page, I can scan it and e-mail it to you. >From ME Your Sister Surprise x ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:19:45 -0800 From: alec way Subject: An apology re: la lengua de los Anglos To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I'd like to apologize for an entry in the last Digest. I very insensitively treated the adjectives/nouns "British" and "English" as interchangeable. I would like to apologize to those of you out there in the world of the Gary Numan Digest who are Scotish, Irish and Welsh. I'm sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:25:25 +0200 From: Slanec Hansi Subject: Austrian - Numan Website To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hello digesters. I'd like to announge the launch of the very first Austrian based Gary numan Site You can find "The Aircrash Bureau" at http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/7042/nuindex.htm It' a kind of a tribute to a unique artist and trong and powerful musician. If you come around the site for the first tinem, please remember to drop a line in my guestbook (and suggest changes or so... ;-) ) Numanoids, the site has opened. Yours in Numan Hansi, the Austrian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 04:26:06 EDT From: SomaCrow@aol.com Subject: Disclaimer: All statistics are easy to manipulate. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Stats on Digest #458: "Posts" refers to the body of a message; signature and headers are not included. Lines, paragraphs, and pages (as measured in ClarisWorks 4.0) are less significant than the other bits, but hey, they serve my purpose. Posts about Numan (this includes discussion about Exile vs. Queensryche logo, the differences audible in the remastered Telekon, etc.): 39K 15,123 bytes 14791 characters 2560 words 315 lines 276 paragraphs 8 pages Posts not about Numan (this includes verbose posts about homosexuality etc. as well as verbose posts pleading for no more verbose posts about homosexuality etc.): 39K 17,015 bytes 16,683 characters 2942 words 347 lines 322 paragraphs 9 pages Food for thought. Remember the subject line disclaimer. Riana P.S. - The crude way of making my point: SHUT THE BLOODY HELL UP!!! ...And that's as far as I deign to lower myself into that mess. P.P.S. - On the RELEVANT front, did anybody see the Numan Principle show a couple days ago? I had heard talk of an American tour with Depeche Made and I'm very disappointed that they did not become a reality. (Though it's cool that Numan and Depeche Mode both have '98 N. American tours!!) So I'd like to hear from any attendees what they thought of the gig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:20:47 +1000 From: random Subject: Exile Logo To: Gary Numan I always thought the Exile logo was a fancy inverted pentagram! It seemed to fit the mood of the album. Cheers Random ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:10:29 +0100 From: Martin Subject: Gary Numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have been reading these articles for the past two weeks and have to say that i am very disappointed at the content . You all appear to be missing the point . If you are not discussing unrelated subjects , then you are being over analytical about Gary Numan lyrics . Maybe I have lost the plot for the last 20 years but i believe Gary Numan can be summarised in one word "ESCAPISM" . I am sure that there are Numan fans out there who will use seven or eight thousand words . Well I hope they enjoy doing it , I must get on with my life . "Shut the dead eyes of God if they affended you" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:05:50 -0400 From: "Mr. Rain" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #456 To: Gary Numan > > Date: 30 Jul 1998 08:29:44 +0000 > From: Glenn.Bridges@asda.co.uk > > And finally , a long technical question. Can I use a CD writer to > record my own audio CDs? I now have a ten CD changer in the car , and > would like to make a ten CD Numan compilation of my own choosing. For > example , I would like to put together a 1 CD mix of my own favourites > from Sacrifice and Exile. Or , as I suspect , can I only create > digital CD-ROM , readable only by my computer? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Glenn Yes you can, with an appropriate software package that can handle recording digital audio to CDR. If you don't already have a CD recorder, it's likely that anything you buy will come with something like Adaptec's Easy CD Creator, or if you want to spend a small fortune, there's Sonic Foundry's Sound Forge and Professional CD Factory (which is probably a severe case of overkill in your case). Your CD player should be able to play an audio CDR, but probably won't be able to play a rewritable CD, so... well, look into it a bit before you buy anything. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:40:20 -0500 From: Byron Subject: hi everyone! To: "numan@cs.uwp.edu" Hi, my name is Byron and I'm new to the list. I've been a Numan fan since Replicas was brand new. I've got all his album (up till Warriors, when it seemed he fell off the face of the earth). None of the record stores where I lived seem to know anything about him other than "the guy who did that Cars song". I just got onto the Internet and damn, I'm I way behind the times. I did just get the Exile cd today and found the mailing list yesterday, so I'm chalking it up to a excellent week!. Looking forward to talking with you all. Thanks, Byron ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:29:05 EDT From: Lizard4663@aol.com Subject: I Can't Stop To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I have a copy of this, picture disc, and was wondering if anyone would be interested in buying it. Liz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:35:15 -0400 From: Matthew Roberts Subject: It's a Small World To: Gary Numan So Gary's not going to tour the UK again. All I can say is what a brillia= nt idea! I saw Bowie at Shepherds Bush last year and everyone was going ape shit. When I saw Gary there, SOME of the crowd were going ape shit, but SOME people were sitting in armchairs, smoking pipes & "admiring the light show". If Gary really abandons touring, hopefully those old relics will choose t= o get their kicks on the annual Celine Dion jaunt and stop embarrassing the= rest of us. = (What's that I hear? 'Just because I don't choose to jump up and down doesn't mean I'm not enjoying myself, blah, blah, blah'. Want a scary thought? Just think about those people's sex lives!). Someone once said to me that Gemma wasn't all that sexy. Duh! Look at pag= e 10 of the new Newsletter. Now, I HATE Gary. >Gary's material from 1984 until present is complete CRAP !!!.... I have = to be honest = That's a load of bollocks. Sorry, but I have to be honest. >Homosexuality is a sin. That's why hell is a bottomless pit. What's the difference between oral sex and anal sex? Oral sex makes your day. Anal sex makes your whole week. Matthew Roberts Oh yeah, the reason for my post. Gary appears in 'Hunting Venus'. And the= band in 'Hunting Venus' is 'The Venus Hunters'. And 'The Venus Hunters' i= s also a short story by J G Ballard. And J G Ballard is one of Gary's favourite authors. Like I said, esta una Mundo non corpulanto. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 03:30:21 +0100 From: "Nick" Subject: lyrics the cash cow and a dark tale To: "Gary Numan" Hi All, I'd like to add my opinion to the homo lyrical debate :-) In my opinion Gary consciously dabbled with homo/erotic content within his songs, however I believe it was purely fashion related and nothing more. With that in mind all the speculation surrounding the sex of 'Jo the waiter' etc etc really becomes irrelevant. More cynically I could say 'Gary' exploited a niche that was rich in rewards but I won't :-) Anyway that sort of leads me onto to my next subject the paperback edition of 'praying to the aliens'. Quite a few issues ago I remember reading a young Lady's comments relating to the paperback edition which has an extra chapter. The question being is it fair ? Well my answer to that is a big 'NO' Whilst I can fully understand 'Gary' is running a commercial business and needs to make a profit I can't help thinking he's taking advantage of a good fan base that deserves a lot better. I'll let you decide. Finally a couple of issues ago some guy mentioned that he hadn't read many comments relating to Gary's forthcoming tour in the digest. That started me thinking about the tour and the below link is the result of that dark thought progression. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~guru/numan/ Please bear in mind it is totally fictitious and in no way reflects reality :-) If you are easily offended please stay well clear of it. ======= NickFox ======= "I assasin I am" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:56:09 +0100 From: "Phil Marsh" Subject: Micromusic 5 v 0 Dream Corrosion :-) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, here am I....browsing through the latest Digest...having waded through the enormity that was Mark's (sorry, "Axey"'s) message on common sense - good message and sentiments, matey! - then I came across.... From: colin_l >It's going to be hard to beat the excellent Dream >Corrosion video after the disappointing Berserker and >Micromuisc videos. Was the lights really out of sync as >seems woefully apparent in the Micromusic video ??? >Comments please... Micromusic was (and still is) a really good live video (my opinion anyway). GN's performance was excellent - he had the Ziggy pouts, frowns and stares off to a "T"; he stalked the stage like a man possessed; the band's sound was excellent, and (I thought, at least) the light show was his most visually striking. If the lights were out of sync, and its not something I've really taken note of, I assume it was because they were being operated without the sophisticated computerised systems they have today; dare I say it, maybe someone (or several someone's) were switching them in real time with ....their hands! I think to say a vid is disappointing is one thing, but to say that the Dream Corrosion vid is far better...??!! Maybe on a technical level it is, I don't know (I'm no expert), but where Micromusic has a live performance, Dream Corrosion has overdubs (can't STAND live vids that have been dubbed!); where Micromusic has a charismatic performance, Dream Corrosion has Gary doing his infuriating "nodding dog" routine whenever there's a beat; where Micromusic has analogue synths a gogo, Dream Corrosion has tinkly-piddly digital D50s. At the end of the day, the performance, and how well it was captured, are the 2 main points in a live vid (for me, anyway); give me one of Gary's gigs pre 1987 any day of the week - maybe I'm just nostalgic or maybe I just felt more "awe" seeing him then, I dunno. Admittedly, personal taste is going to cloud both our judgments Colin, and I'm not having a pop at you personally, but you're the first "1st generation" fan I've come across who's ever said anything negative about the Micromusic video. Then again, I prefer the Living Ornaments 81 CD to any of his later live recordings as well. It would be interesting to see how many fans from "way back when" prefer his later gigs to the earlier ones; maybe I'm in a minority, I dunno. Changing tack....re the lyrics debate. Has anyone ever pondered "..living somewhere between dead and dying" from Praying to the Aliens? Having spent a good portion of this weekend doing house-type things both inside and out, I'm now convinced that when Gary wrote that line... he'd been looking at my back garden! :-) Toodle pip, as all us English say - at least the ones who don't sound like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Pawpins... ;-) Phil Bye for now Phil (phil.marsh@ndirect.co.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:12:41 PDT From: "* *" Subject: Moral To: numan@cs.uwp.edu "1. what are the alternate lyrics numan sang to "metal"?" Wouldn't they be the lyrics to Moral, which was done in '81? --Debbie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:02:58 +0000 From: "Mike Purvis" Subject: Nu-Tickets To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Well, having said in digest 457: "For many times have I called, but there has been no answer...", as if by magic, they answered, albeit on the NNth attempt. Hooray! Like Andy West found, the only remaining tickets are "up in the gods" on the top tier. I understand its non-reserved, so you'll need to get there early to have a seat at the front, or else you'll be standing at the back. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 05:47:01 -0500 From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley Subject: once more into the breach To: The Gary Digest Dear all, It's interesting that the people asking to put the homo debate to rest are the very ones keeping it alive with their endless postings demanding an end to the discussion, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, if we're going to continue it, let me respond to a few good points that were raised in Mark Pearson's last post. Yes, "queer" has derogatory connotations, but I do use it deliberately. I (and some others who also post here) am actually bi, not gay, and I feel like using "gay" to describe myself is about as accurate as using "straight." Okay, I can back off from it if it bothers people, but I like that it is an inclusive term-- it refers to gay men, lesbians, my own tribe, and even transgender people. It's all of those groups together, and we do have something in common: we are not straight. How about if I use "bent" instead-- you know, as in "not straight, but..."? [Of course there you'll have to contend with the alcoholic connotation, and don't you brits use that word to refer to something else as well? I can't remember.] It's not as common in parlance, but it has been used as a substitute for... that word. And I also meant it deliberately when I invited all to listen to us as bents. We do have something to say as such; we do have our own experiences for being bent, and they're not straight experiences. We are all human-- and we should never forget our relation to each other-- but we also have differences, and those can be exciting and interesting to explore! At first glance, the "let's just be people and not talk about sexual orientation" seems like a very decent, humanitarian view. But in practice it is really very oppressive. What would we think of men who said they didn't want to hear women's experiences as women? Or of whites who want blacks to remain silent on the subject of race? Or of the wealthy who ask the poor to please not bring up issues of class? I agree that reaching out to each other across those divisions is something we should always be doing, but there's also a value in listening to others' experiences and learning from them. It also amazes me that Mark and Glenn and some others have actually complained that discussing Gary's lyrics is interfering with discussing his music! Are you suggesting lyrics are incidental to music? Whereas the 'Exile' logo and British accents on villains are, what, more central to what Gary's music is about? I make that point not just to be sarcastic but to point out that-- tangential as those topics are-- no one has complained about them taking up Digest space. (And neither am I.) I just want you all to notice that only we bents are asked to refrain from our "tangential" discussion. I think that probably comes from some people being uncomfortable with bent people. That's okay; nobody has to like everybody. But your discomfort does not merit protection from the offending topic. People have been uncomfortable with other groups before, believing women and blacks and others should just "stay in their place." No one should have to "stay in their place." We're all free to roam, and we bents certainly are not going to restrict ourselves to bent-only chat sites. Historically, bent people have kept quiet. But we discovered that wouldn't protect us. It led us to the showers at Buchenwald and Dachau, where we learned what straight people had in mind for us all along. Silence is the voice of complicity. Silence does equal death. I bring that up not to compare anyone to the Nazis, but to humble us at the weightiness of this subject. Being bent is not Barbie doll collecting. Glenn made another point I thought was interesting. He said that, being British, he comes from a culture where putting our intimate feelings out on display is "view[ed]... with an element of disdain." Being American, I can't speak to that, but my impression of Americans is that we are indeed a culture of people who express our feelings. Loudly. To anyone who'll listen. And even louder to those who won't. Actually, I have noticed that the e-mails of support that I've gotten have come only from other Americans, while those I've seen posted on the Dige standing with the "don't ask, don't tell" crowd seem to be Brits. I certainly respect the feelings of my brothers and sisters across the ocean, and if being open with feelings is not to anyone's taste, well, I hope you can forgive me being so with mine. Love to you all, Benjamin Iglar-Mobley P.S. It's Ben, not Valerie. I dragged my wife to Gary's concerts, but I really shouldn't let her take the heat for my words! Hers is the name on our e-mail account. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:58:42 EDT From: Jamesy999@aol.com Subject: Secrets.... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Digesters.... A friend of a friend has just told me that Numan WILL be at the Beggars Banquet 21st birthday bash on August 19th at a secret location somewhere in London.... it's so secret I haven't got a clue where it is !!!!!!!! Any one know????? Tickets came today for Shepards Bush problem is that I asked for upstairs and I got sent downstairs....any one wanna swap two downstairs for two upstairs ??? .....nearly got bashed up last time (Exile) two much argy bargy for me...... if you are interested in a swap e-mail ASAP......... Tony J Me, I Disconnect Fro............... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 02:13:55 -0700 From: dagonet@netwide.net (Don McCrum) Subject: Sharing The Wonderfully Entertaining Inexperience Of a 19 year old.... To: Gary Numan No real content -- just an amusing situation (most of you can probably understand).... A friend of a friend thought she saw Gary Numan on Politically_Incorrect a few nights ago. I, of course, got all excited and asked her if she taped it for me. "No." "Well, what did he say then?" "Not much. Didn't really look like what I thought he would." "How? Too 'goth' ? Too short? What?" "No. Looked like an old-metalhead." "Huh? Gary Numan?" "Yeah. And he talked about bow-hunting." "Bow-hunting?" I started laughing. "What?" she asked. "I think you mean Ted Nugent." Well, it made me laugh like an idiot. And I made her listen to Exile and Dawn, hence, another convert (who will never again confuse Gary Numan with Ted Nugent). Peace D * * * "It is better to die knowing you have created art, than to die holding mediocrity's gilded hand...." dagonet@netwide.net/ ICQ #12788034/ AIM: MOAPOG ------------------------------ Date: 12 Aug 1998 10:01:00 +0000 From: Glenn.Bridges@asda.co.uk Subject: Sorry To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Whatever happened to Kinsmen? Shelved , cancelled , somebody else go the part? Does anyone know? (And my lips are now forever sealed on the great alternative lifstyle debate, sorry to all those I nearly bored off the planet) Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:23:05 +0100 From: "downstat" Subject: Sound Corrosion To: "Gary Numan" >From digest 456 "joeri" I hope one day 'Dream Corrosion' will be remixed and remastered > because I love it so much and the original really sounds like SHIT. > In GNFC Newsletter 46 someone asks: "The Dream Corrosion video sounds very crisp and sharp when played through my hi-fi, but why does the CD sound so dim, it loses so much clarity?" Gary, not untypically on these matters, answers: "It may be you have a dodgy CD player or a faulty Dream Corrosion CD. Try another player if you can, if it still sounds dim take it back to the shop and change it. If it sounds OK get your player fixed". !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (His advice is so dodgy it doesn't even make sense! If the replacement sounds OK then there's no reason to fix your player is there?) Sometimes GN's shear self righteousness is astounding. When reviewing Dream Corrosion, even the cloth ears at Q magazine said it sounded like it had been recorded in a biscuit tin. Austin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:47:50 +0100 From: Andy McHaffie Subject: Stuff To: Numan Digest >""Is he, isn't he?" and stuff but THAT'S IT. I really couldn't >care less beyond that. Honestly, it's BORING!!!!!! That's the long and >short of it, it is soooooooooo dull. " OK, once and for all, no one was even speculating about Gary's sexuality. No one. However, for all us homosexual fans, his early homoerotic lyrics were important. Simple as that. Its not really up for debate. Its a fact. So, if the heteros on here arent interested in these lyrics, then just dont discuss them... Seems like there's just TOO much defensiveness going on !! > Homosexuality is a sin. That's why hell is a bottomless pit. > >Only if you believe in such nonsense. Homosexuality or hell, either >way. Neither makes sense to me. Of course, that's only MY opinion.. Urrm - that was a joke !!!! :) >MUSIC OF QUALITY HAS NO FEAR OF TIME > (PETE WYLIE,WAH!) Incidentally, if he married Kylie Minogie would she be called Kylie Wylie ? Andy McH -- http://www.joekeith.dircon.co.uk/mouthfull.html -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:19:01 +0100 From: Paul Subject: Telekon Live & I Die lyrics To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (1) s. payton asks: "4. has numan ever done "telekon" live?" Answer Yes: "Telekon" was played at various venues during the "UK Teletour 80" (2) "I die you die" Although Gary has never actually used the lyric "Running from the telephone" It is believed to have been included on the original song sheets. An example of this line can be found on the Cover version by "The Magnetic Fields". T79 Paul.mcdonald. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:53:57 -0800 From: Pythoness Subject: Touring Question To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Personally, I don't want to see Gary Numan opening for anyone. He may not be well-known these days, but to have him opening for another group is, IMO, a how-the-mighty-are-fallen scenario. After twenty years in the biz, he deserves to remain a headliner, even if it keeps him in smaller venues. (And yeah, well, I'd like to see him in another little club just once more myself. :-) This is, admittedly, a gut feeling and not logically based on Best Business Theory. However, I do know a number of people who saw him on the Exile tour incidental to seeing Switchblade Symphony. Since it's only three people, it doesn't constitute much of a random sample, but--one person was utterly enthralled with his stage presence, but all three of them found the music *boring.* The reason for this is not that the music was actually boring, but that live is hardly the best way to hear someone the first time, and, possibly more importantly, the show remained at approximately the same beats-per-minute consistently, with the result that everything "sounded alike". It was all these guys heard. I think the answer may lie in the media rather than live audiences; I know I've spoken to a whole lot of people who've seen the articles in Resonance, Keyboard, and various other publications, and who found Numan very intreguing. Better get them to listen to the music first, whatever that may take. zg Ziggy Blum Ziggy's House O' Vermin zigi@ravenland.com --------------------------- I think I'll be a different kind of weasel. --A. D'Averso ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************