Gary Numan Digest Sun, 23 Aug 98 Volume 1 : Issue 462 Today's Topics: 'metal / 'moral' Costello and Numan, for starters Disillusioned does any one know...... Elvis C, Malcolm McC, UK tours, NuWorld updates Fanning the Flames Fascist publisher? I think not Future (non) releases Gary, The Biz, and Extended Exile Gary Numan Digest V1 #457 Gary Numan Digest V1 #461 (2 msgs) Living Ornaments '78 No Good Trying R.I.P. I.R.S.? Random Refugee On The Exile Tour (The Transatlantic Transaction) So the UK fans are solely responsible Telekon 4 sale/trade Touring the UK Tubeway Vision UK NU-GIG MEETUP Wow! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:20:47 -0600 From: "s. payton" Subject: 'metal / 'moral' To: numan@cs.uwp.edu newcombG3: I'm holding out for the Beggars reiusse of 'Dance'. but anyway i disargee with your assement that combining 'metal' and 'moral' "ultimately diminishes them both". remember the time numan performs this song. 'Moral' still may not have been a finished song at all. who knows, maybe this was the begining of 'moral'. gary may have just been tired of the lyrics to 'metal' after doing both the touring principle and teletour and had some new lyrics that seemed to fit.... and even if that isnt true, gary isnt the type of artist that just treats his songs with a "whatever" attitude. by using such a blatent change of lyrics, its leads me to believe that numan was really tying to communicate a message to his audience; why else would he bother??? your ideas???? 'im so sorry but my reasons are wrong' sean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:39:25 -0500 From: "Scott_R._Lucado" Subject: Costello and Numan, for starters To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Cheez, what's the deal with Elvis Costello and Gary getting at each other? I was never much of a Costello fan; I've always thought that he personified the way a modicum of talent can be parlayed into stardom, given the backing of some marketing, the favor of the press, and a lot of luck. I always thought Graham Parker had a lot more talent than Elvis Costello, for what it's worth. Before I get into my next point, I would like to categorically state that in my opinion, the music business reflects absolutely no relationship between talent and success. In some ways I feel that Gary's career is tottering on the brink of a quick descent into oblivion. He's not getting the support he needs from his record company; for whatever reason he may turn his back on his traditional support group (his fans in England); his adolescent environment can't continue to help him forever; he won't do what it would take to be a commercial success (he keeps waiting for the world to come around to his way of thinking, and it ain't gonna happen). I like the guy, I really do. His show in Dallas was amazing; it was great to see him again after sixteen long years. After all the work he's put into making music, it seems only fair that he get some greater recognition for it. But to be a fan of his music, he seems to insist that you be a fan of him personally, or at least be sympathetic to his personal life, which is not the most savory prospect for many. It's like he wants to be both profound and popular--and those are two adjectives that don't generally cooperate. Unfortunately, his kind of profundity is mainly relevant to teenagers, and they are likely to have other idols besides Gary, who's getting a little long in the tooth for some of this. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 01:38:29 +0100 From: "machman" Subject: Disillusioned To: What's Happening Lately I'm hearing loads of stories which i am amazed at, can someone shed some light ? 1. No more touring in the UK. i Know that some may find it repetative but i certainly don't and i take a few people with me to every gig i can (last year 15). To have 1 show only in London is a major problem to get there. Why let us down so badly at least play a smaller number of local gigs first. 2. No extended Exile i have noticed that in certain countries other extended versions of tracks are released that we cannot get (IE Angel Wars - My favourite track ). Like many other fans we want as much material as possible and to make it hard to get in some countries seems like a lack of understanding on someones part. 3. Autobiography paperback has one extra chapter. again milking us for every bit of money for next to nothing in return. Don't get me wrong i'm not against buying Numan stuff far from it i buy everything. But at least give us more for our money such as more chapters, Pictures or anything as long as it's worth it. I Probably seem to be moaning with this but i have followed, Collected and Seen Numan since 1978 (Down in the park) and i feel let down just lately. It's as if we're treated like idiots who will take any old rubbish. Finally it may not be GARY taking these descicions (I hope not) but at least he could maybe reply to this in person or on his site machman@dial.pipex.com _machman_@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:54:02 EDT From: Jamesy999@aol.com Subject: does any one know...... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Digesters ... just going through some VERY old newsletters. On the proposed Telekon track listing (1980) Gary says "I'm A Driver" will be on Telekon......never heard of it again Can any one tell us what ever happened to "Driver"......... Has any one seen Gary and Gemma on this Lakesiders thing yet ??????? Me, I Disconnect Fr........ Tony J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:45:55 +0100 From: "downstat" Subject: Elvis C, Malcolm McC, UK tours, NuWorld updates To: "Gary Numan" On the subject of Elvis Costello: In June 1994 Numan chose his 12 favorite records for Melody Maker, together with comments. In the one page article he mentions: "D'you know, Elvis Costello's manager hit the man who signed me, for signing me! Now that is very unnecessary. Like you're *so* great, Elvis." For those interested his records were: The Monkees - I'm a believer T Rex - Telegram Sam David Bowie - Jean Genie Queen - 7 seas of rhye Ultravox - Slow motion OMD - Messages Robert Palmer - Addicted to love Prince - Sign o the times Janet Jackson - Miss you much Jesus Jones - Better the devil you know Sisters of Mercy - Vision thing Depeche Mode - Never let me down again Each choice was accompanied by GN's comments. Same old things....Monkey Juniors, Freddie and McDonalds, getting kicked out of the Kenny Everet show etc.... On the subject of Malcolm McClaron: A similar story was told on this subject on the digest (or was it on NuZone) a few years back. I think someone had heard Malcolm recount the story on New York radio. Good to hear that it was mentioned as well on the Jo Whiley show. (Was this her TV or radio show?). I agree with Matthew Roberts - these small namechecks are very significant and would of previously been unthinkable. After all, hip hop, Afrika B, and Malcolm M have all been going for years. Why were these quotes namechecking Numan not appearing in 1983? On the subject of UK tours: Matthew Roberts is spot on. The yearly UK tours have done Numan no good at all in attracting new fans. In addition, they have bred the "slipper and pipe" syndrome amongst existing fans. How many people were coming along to see him? For instance I was at the first night of the Exile Tour down in Southampton. It was no more than HALF full. The atmosphere was flat. It was just another saturday night down the pub. All future Numan gigs need to be like the last night of the Exile tour. Jam packed. The top objective for every future gig should be this: Invite selected journalists/producers from BBC,NME, MTV, local radio etc and make sure they leave with a big grin on their face thinking "Fucking hell............I was wrong". They ain't going to get this buzz seeing Gary year on year play to 500 people at a half full Brentwood Leisure Centre. I don't believe that playing gigs is a good way of selling new records in itself. All Saints have sold a squillion records. But how many punters have seen them play a gig? The publicity that surrounds a tour can sell more records. But what publicity was Numan getting? A few mid-morning slots on local radio. A few appearances on daytime cable TV shows. Certainly no mentions on Radio 1, NME, or MTV. Even the Numan organisation didn't advertise the tour - if I was not on the internet and in the fanclub I would not of known that the tour was happening. So from a point of view of attracting new fans, the tour was a complete waste of time. In addition, over the years I have dragged around a dozen different friends along with me to see a gig. Every one of them left saying "good show" but to my knowledge NOT ONE of those people have ever gone out afterwards and bought the lastest GN album. It is make or break time for Gary. And we have to bear with him. (Although I have been saying that it is make or break time every year since 1987). On the subject of lack of updates on NuWorld: It wasn't long ago that our only source of information was a Newsletter from the fanclub three times a year. Then came along the telephone update lines. As much as I looked forward to the monthly changeover, in hindsight even these perhaps caused more harm than good. They raised expectations. Gary promised all manner of things - but few projects were ever delivered. This is not a criticism of Gary at all, but instead was just a result of Gary being too open with his ideas and sharing too much with us. This situation has now continued with NuWorld. As an example look at the Prodigy collaboration. Numan said too much too early and as a result has pissed off the Prodigy. It is now very unlikely there will be any collaboration. NuWorld should be kept going to service fans - both old and new - with current release details and major news. But everything else (rumours, plans for collaborations, what Gary had for breakfast, etc) should only be released on unofficial sites. The ideal would be for Gary to use something like the excellent AFE web site to release information on his behalf. This would free up Gary's time so that he can get on with important things. Equally importantly, it means that he personally is not the direct source of all information. I have always presumed that something like this must already happen with the AFE site. Austin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:18:16 -0400 From: Moral Subject: Fanning the Flames To: "Numan Digest (GN)" Following on from my post a few Digests ago, = Matthew Roberts wrote : >>That you are wrong I'm afraid. At least about touring. I think you will= find the 'no = >>more touring' idea comes from a source other than Tony or Beryl. In fac= t, I suspect = >>it's a direct result of Gary taking advice from elsewhere - from a 'professional' = >>source." I did not suggest that the 'no more touring' idea came directly from = Gary's Mum and Dad. What I did suggest however, is the recent decisions = that have come from the Numan camp are ill advised and not likely to = succeed in making the significant breakthrough which Gary apparently = wants. I may indeed be wrong, but without hard facts from a reliable = source which you are prepared to share with the rest of us, then you too = are also guessing/suspecting and are therefore also likely to be wrong. >>I'm afraid we've reached the point in Gary's career where the hard core= fans are no = >>longer an asset but a liability (I'm thinking particularly of the pipe and slippers >>brigade, but I think it applies to all of us to a greater or lesser degree) I would not call a fan base who buys anything he releases and turns up = in their droves to watch gig after gig a "liability". I suggest that a = fan base which does that could more accurately be described as a decent = springboard to better and greater things providing the direction and = intent are correct. Without that springboard, then the desire for better = and greater things surely becomes academic? = >>Now I think Gary is eternally greatful to you and the rest of us for supporting him = >>through the desperate hours, but he DOES want to be big again. He wants= to be = >>recognised as a great artist. He wants to go down in the history books.= There is a = >>small glimpse of that happening, but it will only happen if Gary can attract new, = >>young and COOL fans. Old Numanoids don't fall into that catagory I'm afraid By "big" I assume that we're talking about a higher public profile, = increased fame, a massive upturn in record sales and high chart = positions. We already know that any time Gary has not toured to promote = a new album at the time when the new album has been released, has had an = adverse affect on the sales of that album. I suggest that "new, young = and COOL fans" might be more inclined to buy Numan product if they had = easier access to seeing the material performed live. The last Fan Club = Newsletter stated that from now on the casual Numan fan will find it = more difficult to get to see him perform live. I do not believe that is = going to help re-establish Gary Numan at the forefront of the music = business. Gary's autobiography does state that he now makes money from = touring and we all know that attendances have increased year on year for = the last few years. Something good and positive is happening so I do = not believe that cutting off that supply of live performances to = potential new fans will lead Gary once more into the big time. >>Gary has made a bold move by giving up the safe for the risky. It's mak= e or >>break time. He should be applauded for that. Let's not say: "but what about >>us Gary? What about us?". I would agree that this is a bold move and that it is make or break = time. I hope for his sake that it reaps the rewards he deserves. My = comments and opinions do not revolve around a "what about us" mentality. = I would like to see Gary return to the dizzy heights of '79/'80 as much = as anyone. I just do not agree that his decisions of late will achieve = that. That is just my opinion. David Datta wrote : >>Well, I think that you have absolutely no idea what it means to be in >>the music business, no idea what is going on in his life, and are in no= >>position to have an opinion about most of the things you are >>complaining about. This is not to say that I have any great insight >>into his life or business decisions either. If you read your response again carefully David, you might just spot = where you let your own argument down. For someone who has a direct = involvement with the production of the Digest, I found your comment = about me being in no position to have an opinion absolutely amazing. I = believed that everyone who contributed to the Digest is entitled to = their opinion and is encouraged to share it with others for the purpose = of open debate. This belief has been upheld many times by other = subscribers and not least by Derek himself. If you truly believe what = you say then I suggest you relinquish all involvement with the Digest = immediately or retract your rather pompous statement. >>The web site probably isn't as important to him as it is to you. Face >>it, the WWW is just one big sell to a bunch of hop-on-the-bandwagon >>consumers. The web site is allegedly very important to him. That is if we are to = believe his own words. Try listening to some of the US interviews that = Rob had/has up on his AFE site. I believe that the official web site = should strive to be the best, most accurate and most up to date. I also = believe that if Gary cannot maintain at least the news section more = frequently, then it could or should be delegated to someone else. I also = think that calling anyone who has bought anything through the web site a = "hop-on-the-bandwagon consumer" is rather insulting. >>We have absolutely no knowledge of why the tours were cancelled. Not me= , and = >>certainly not you. I never claimed to know exactly why previously mentioned tours will now = not happen. I was merely making the point that Gary's position a = relatively short time ago is now in stark contrast to his latest = pronouncements on the subject. Further, I do not believe that Gary owes = me anything. The fact is that he has publicly stated his desire to make = it big again. I do not believe that pulling out of touring will help. = It's just my opinion. = >>Well I don't give a rats ass if U2 wrote zooropa while on the road, >>that decision is Gary's and Gary's alone. This followed by a diatribe >>comparing database installation to moving a studio. You really have no >>clue what it takes to write an album or to move a studio. When you have= >>a studio and are recording albums yourself, then I will listen to what >>you have to say about recording on the road and moving studios. The "diatribe" compared moving a company to moving a studio. It did not = compare installing a database to moving a studio. I suggest your read my = last post more carefully. I do in fact write my own songs using my own = home recording set-up. It would be stretching the point to actually call = it a studio, but having moved house with it a few times, I am familiar = with the effort involved in dismantling and re-connecting even a modest = set-up. True, I do not have a recording schedule to meet and do not tour = and record, but then as far as we know neither do you David. So, what = exactly was your point here ? >>Just because you don't trust your parents when it comes to business, >>doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't. You can suppose and blame whomever >>you like for the state of career but you will NEVER know if you are >>right unless he tells you so. If Gary has chosen to have his parents >>involved in his career, that says a lot about how he trusts his >>parents. If he felt they weren't doing the job he wanted, he could >>certainly find someone else. I refer you to the last four paragraphs of the post from Mark Pearson in = Digest #461. I think he put things extremely well and thus spares me the = need to reiterate his sentiments. I, like many of you, all wish Gary well and would very much enjoy his = return to high status, fame and fortune. I do not believe that a third = opportunity is very likely so, as many of you have said, it is now or = never, make or break. In my opinion recent events and decisions will not = get Gary back on track to the status he once held. Either way I'll = still be there, still buying everything he releases and still shouting my= = lungs out at the concerts and hoping that I'll eventually be proved = wrong. = In signing off, I'd like to thank the many of you who emailed me to = share my/our concerns and I again borrow from Mark Pearson's post in = which he wrote : "That said I am quite happy to speak my mind if I feel Gary or his = organisation (Such as it is) does something I don't agree with. Doing = that seems to be regarded as an act of high treason or the ultimate = betrayal by some". Ahem ! Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:06:57 EDT From: SomaCrow@aol.com Subject: Fascist publisher? I think not To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi there. Long post ahead about books and kids and "sex and fishing," skip it if you like. Joey's post regarding the different releases of Praying to the Aliens was right on. The idea of making the new chapter available on the web sounds good to me, so long as it is done in conjunction with the proposed paperback version. Better have it available both on the web and in print, for after all, not everyone has Internet access. And not everyone could find, nay afford, a hardback copy of PTTA when it first came out either; so if only that last chapter is put on the web, those who haven't read the book yet will still buy the whole thing for all the stuff preceding that last chapter. Remember, people, it's the money! Even if nobody who already owns PTTA in hardback buys the softback, instead opting to read the last chapter online, money still will be made through both paperback and hardback sales. And there definitely are people who will buy both versions, so that adds to profits. Andre Deutsch sure ain't losing money right now through overprinting the hardcover. I seem to remember reading that the first printing sold pretty well. Beats me how the printing-cost-to-selling-price ratios compare for hardcover and paperback, but methinks it's a square deal for everyone. I (who don't own the hardback) don't feel cheated that the paperback version will have an extra chapter; I'd feel cheated if all these exciting times for Gary had passed and finally the paperback version came out WITHOUT the update! :-) And bear in mind, it's a free market and it's ruled by supply and demand: You have the hardcover and don't want to pay a third of that book's price to get the softcover? Fine, don't! Nobody's forcing it on you. Hide in a corner of the bookstore and read the extra chapter when you can find the softcover, or borrow it from a friend. If NuWorld puts that chapter online, go read it there. You're willing to shell out $7.95 ($9.95 in Canada) for the paperback whether you own the hardback or not? Go nuts! Buy copies for your friends! Pave your damn roof with paperback PTTAs! Andre Deutsch is publishing Gary's autobiography (and in both formats, as dictated by tradition) because they think people will buy it. And people have! And people will buy the softcover! If you won't pay up, go invest in pork futures or something. Then you'll really feel like you're getting something out of your money. When I'm a publishing magnate, then I'll write again and ramble on even more; until then, I know nothing, Joey's post sounds reasonable, I'll defer to that. Hope I've added some valid points here. (I sound like an extension of Joey already; I should never have listened when he told me, "Look into my eyes! You are growing verrry sleepy! Buy 'The Way Things Ought To Be'!" Now THAT's tricky PR!) Yes, I have MORE to say!!! Zarquon! To Glenn, whose teenaged friends snub Bowie, the Stones, etc.: I don't know if you're a teenager too, but plenty of teenagers like that stuff!!! :-) (end shameless self-promotion) Yes, music is a young man's game; but the quality stuff endures. Gary Numan could use more enthusiastic efforts from his label, and maybe he'll never get them. But at least he's back in form, putting out quality music, not selling his soul to Janet Jackson and charting with IRS. Take the indie mentality on this one: Gary Numan isn't huge now because he's too damned good to be famous in Matchbox 20-ruled 1998! ;-) And so-on. I could say more, but it'd just end up being some pointless digression about David Bowie and what I'd like to do to him in a supply closet, so I'll be quiet. :-) Shutting up now!! Really! HalleLUjah! Riana "Buy her singles and see all her films, paste her pictures on my windowsill" - Thomas Dolby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:48:15 +1000 From: "E. Bunce" Subject: Future (non) releases To: >How do we change Eagle's minds? They don't have email - we need another approach. Any suggestions? I don't know much about this sort of stuff, but is there some way we could all email a central address (like we do with the Digest), then have our names / email addresses posted / faxed to Eagle like some kind of electronic petition? Are there any more 20th Anniversary versions of songs (like those on the DD singles) that also might not be released? >The lyrics to these re-releases appear to be cut-&-pasted from the previous double CD sets (same font/layout), which have the same errors. Just an aside to that comment, are there any errors on the 2CD versions of The Plan / Dance / I, Assassin / Warriors that could be edited out before their re-release (if & when)? E. Bunce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:51:51 -0700 From: obscure@blueneptune.com Subject: Gary, The Biz, and Extended Exile To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In Digest #461 Mark Pearson wrote: >To work the system to it's fullest you need the help of the professional >low life snakes that perpetuate that system. They alone know what it >takes to survive in that environment. Mum and Dad however don't. I can't >help feeling that if Gary is SERIOUS about wanting another REAL shot he >has to retire Mum and Dad to the Algarve for a well earned retirement >and get a SERIOUS management team behind him who can pull the right >strings and be emotionally detached enough to not be afraid of upsetting >their Son when the truth needs to be told. Gary has, in many ways, been >cocooned from the realities of the biz by the fact he has involved his >family in the running of his affairs. I cannot help feeling that his >LONG TERM career prospects would be greatly improved by changing this >situation. Time to de-lurk and put in my $0.02: As someone who worked in the music industry, in the day-to-day business of running an independent record label - I beg to differ. I think that Gary, together with his family, have done an absolutely amazing job. When I had the pleasure of meeting Beryl during this last tour, I made sure to tell her how awesome I thought it was that Gary's music is a family business. If it weren't for the love, faith, and unwavering support Gary received and continues to receive from his parents (to the degree of taking out a mortgage on their home to help finance the business) we certainly would not be enjoying his music and live shows today. Personally, I think that Gary should stay away from the "low life snakes who perpetuate the system". They have only themselves and their positions to think of. Yes, he has made some mistakes in the past...but they were his to make. I think he's doing fine...still putting out great music after 20 years. (I'm still amazed that I got to see him live again after 16 years of waiting...) How's that for long term? Ok, I've had my rant...I feel better now. On to more important things: Hey Derek, how about an old fashioned letter writing campaign to get Eagle to release the Extended Exile album? They may not be on email, but think of what a statement it would make if every one of the Digest folk were to write a polite personal letter pleading for the release of the Extended Exile! Or I wonder if the licensing would allow Gary to press it himself and make it available only thru the mail? How many of us would be willing to place a pre-paid order? It's one thing to press up a CD and hope people will buy it; what if we would be willing to put our money on the line to ensure that it gets released? Just a few random thoughts... Lisa ________________________ obscure@blueneptune.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:16:44 -0700 From: Pat Weber Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #457 To: Gary Numan > From: Dave Carlson > Subject: Is the Exile logo a ripoff? > To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" > > A friend recently asked me to burn her a copy of Queensryche's "Promised = > Land" album (which, of course I didn't do because that would be illegal = > ;-) > > Anyway, I was a bit stunned at the cover art. If Gemma, or whomever it = > was that designed the Exile logo hasn't seen this, I'd be really = > surprised. Take a look at the web page I've set up below and compare = > for yourself. Bear in mind that the Queensryche album is dated 1994! > > http://members.tripod.com/~mydyingmachine/numan.html Forgive my intrusion, I usually lurk. But, like gawking at a bad road accident, I couldn't help myself. I went to the above link and, while I can see basic similarities, what shocked me most was the Queensryche logo appeared to be a piece of "clip object" from Kinetix 3D Studio Max software. My point is illustrated by an image I created while fooling around (learning) the above-mentioned software. Please visit http://www.nmia.com/~pweber/room.htm to see what I mean. The image was created several years ago, and I used what I call "clip objects" since I was playing with textures and getting a feel for how different settings affected the appearance. So. I don't think the Exile logo is a ripoff. It would appear, instead, that the artist for the Queensryche cover has 3D Studio Max and did a beautiful job of applying textures. I'm envious. I'm crawling back in my corner now. Pat Weber ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:38:59 +0100 From: Tom Gorham Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #461 To: "Gary Numan" > This interview was circa '79/'80. On a >Radio one show where stars did their top ten songs. I wish I could remember >some more of the top ten that he did that day. The show was called My Top Ten, I think, and it was on on a Sunday a little bit before they did the Top 40 chart show. I definitely remember a Kate Bush song and 'Telegram Sam'. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:31:20 -0500 From: Scott Gibbons Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #461 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) >at Virgin Megastore Vienna i found a numan cover (Are 'friends' >electric?) by a band called "Replicants" I HEARD that Replicants is Chris Connelly and members of other well-known bands, including Smashing Pumpkins?? Anyone know for sure? There was a rumor that they were going to open for Gazza when he played Chicago but it didn't happen. :-( - Scott -------------------- Scott Gibbons nomusic@mw.idsonline.com ADAM &-THE ANTZ LILITH ORBITRONIK STRAWBERRY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 98 04:48:51 -0400 From: Shane King Subject: Living Ornaments '78 To: "Gary Numan" Does the re-release of the first album really have Living Ornaments '78 on it? Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:00:17 -0800 From: alec way Subject: No Good Trying To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hansi the Austrian brought up the Replicants record in connection with them doing a cover of AFE. I had this CD. I don't know what happened to it. It's a rockin' sort of version, albeit a bit uninspired. It's an all-covers album. Included is a version of No Good Trying by Syd Barrett. No Good Trying, from the Barrett album Madcap Laughs, sounds to me like it could have been a Numan song. Not only is there much in common with the Numan voice and vocal range, the lyrics are odd, deadpan fantasmagorical, sci-fi in atmosphere and more-than-slightly paranoid. And yet extremely personal, multi-layered and metaphorical. Very Numan, the 1969 version. When I talked to Numan, I brought up my Syd-compatible theory. He seemed interested but said he hadn't heard much Barrett. I think there's an interesting link there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:33:20 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: R.I.P. I.R.S.? To: "numan@cs.uwp.edu" Well, I don't recall ever reading anything in this Digest on the following, but then again, perhaps all that aspartame I've been inhaling (in the form of diet Coke) has sufficiently addled my brain to the point where nothing gets stored in long term memory anymore. Be that as it may, I went looking on the web for a graphic logo for IRS Records yesterday and discovered a webpage that tells me that IRS Records NO LONGER EXISTS. In fact, they've been gone for over two years. The page in question is at: http://www.best.com/~sirlou/irs_records.html For the web-challenged, here are the salient points from the page: IRS Records Dies >From Entertainment Weekly: IRS Records After a steady decline in quality, the label that signed alt-rock forbears like R.E.M., the Go-Gos and the English Beat closed for good amid little fanfare on July 18. I.R.S.t in peace." And from Billboard, July 27, 1996: LOS ANGELES--I.R.S. may be closing its doors July 19, but it looks like its chairman, Miles Copeland, won't be getting out of the record business anytime soon. He expects to announce plans for a new label, distributed by EMI Music Distribution, the week of Monday (22). During the past year, Copeland has been aggressively trying to buy I.R.S. back from EMI-Capitol Music Group North America. Culver City, Calif.-based I.R.S., which has suffered from slagging sales in recent years, entered into a joint venture with EMI-Capitol in 1990. In 1992, the label became a wholly owned division of EMI-Capitol. EMI-Capitol gave Copeland several extensions on a deadline to come up with money to buy I.R.S. back, but Copeland was unable to meet it. He is said to have found investors at the 11th hour, but the deadline was too close to meet, according to a source close to the discussions. "They did come up with a package, but the deadline was so tight, and the 60-day due diligence made it too difficult for EMI," the source says. "I have had a long and fruitful relationship with EMI, which will continue with the announcement next week of our new plans," says Copeland, who created I.R.S. in 1979. "We are mutually working out plans now that won't leave any artist in a lurch or careers in jeopardy. It has been my and EMI's concern that from a staff and artist perspective, the right thing is done by everyone." The announcement from EMI-Capitol stated that I.R.S.' roster and catalog titles will be integrated into EMI-Capitol's various labels. However, sources say that I.R.S. acts could also end up on Copeland's new, still-unnamed label. Copeland says his new label will be a much smaller operation than I.R.S., with lower overhead. "It will be a more personal company but with major distribution, so we have the best of both worlds," says Copeland. EMI declined to comment by press time on Copeland's expected venture. I.R.S.' roster includes the Buzzcocks, Pato Banton, Squeeze, Gren, dada, and the Tribal dance label. Its catalog includes titles by R.E.M., Black Sabbath, Concrete Blonde, the Alarm, and the English Beat. As to the future of I.R.S. staffers, Sig Sigworth, VP of international marketing and production at I.R.S.,is headed to Virgin Records as director of product management. Bruce Hyslop, I.R.S. manager of royalties, is joining Twisted Records in a similar position. And I.R.S. head of publicity Janeane Ardolino starts at Windham Hill Records in L.A. on Monday (22) as senior manager of publicity. / From Joey Lindstrom joey@lindstrom.com / Interocitor Dot Net http://www.interocitor.net / / I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights, so it looks like / I'm the only one moving. / --Steven Wright ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:04:39 -0800 From: Pythoness Subject: Random To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I've just heard Random for the first time, and been vindicated in my general dislike of tribute albums and my hunch that I didn't need to own this one--to sum up, it generally sounds soulless and rather sarcastic, though Pop Will Eat Itself's "Friends," Gravity Kills' "Poetry and Power," and (to the general derision of the list, I'm sure ) The Orb's "Jo" are exceptions IMO. I like a cover to be done because a song speaks for the second artist as if it were hir own work, done as hir own statement and from the heart; very few of these struck me that way. It didn't sound to *me* as if most of the bands on the album like Numan at all, though that's MHO. What I'm wondering is, has Gary ever publicly offered an opinion on the Random albums? If so, I was looking the other direction at the time. Anyone know? zg Ziggy Blum zigi@ravenland.com ___________________________ I could be dreaming But then maybe that's fatal There's nowhere to hide in your dreams --G. Numan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:56:25 -0500 (CDT) From: real-one@ix.netcom.com (John Marques Carramao) Subject: Refugee On The Exile Tour (The Transatlantic Transaction) To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) To; Gary Numan Digest Members From; A 'Refugee' On The 'Exile' Tour Yet another long distance run around story to jostle your minds fellow digesters, I'll be interrupting my Exile from the UK to make the trans Continental and trans Atlantic flight from San Francisco, CA to London via Air Canada (I trust this is a good airline JL and that I won't be 'treated like a refugee' while onboard) to see Gary Numan at The Empire on 9/12. Even though I've been Exiled to 4 GN shows this year, I think this one will be quite special and I hope to meet some of our Exiled English cousins there. I would like to thank fellow Numan digester Sue Brown of Borehamwood for acquiring me a ticket to the show and special thanks to the Brown family (Peter, Sue, Louise, Michelle, Pirate Dan & Andrew) for hosting me while I'm there! Thanks Sue you're brilliant! Lastly, to whom ever is handling the pre-concert gathering please come forward and make it's location and time known. I would also like to let all terrorist groups know that I had absolutely nothing to do with the air strikes vs. Afghanistan/Sudan/Pakistan so please let me travel in peace. Thanks for your cooperation & see you at 'The Show'. Sincerely, John The Joy Circuit; http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2463/numan.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Ordinary Psycho; http://pw1.netcom.com/~real-one/psycho.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:03:52 -0500 From: "Troy L. Walters" Subject: So the UK fans are solely responsible To: The Gary Numan Digest This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------97C6430AE11E74DD2DC30B1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit G.Weir@btinternet.com wrote in the latest digest: > Whilst I appreciate that fellow fans around the world may have to travel > hundreds/thousands of miles it is the UK fan base that has kept him going. > So, what you're saying is, that by paying outrageous import prices for Gary's material since Warriors (well, and the IRS days), I (and hundreds of other non-UK fans) have had no bearing in the fight to keep his career alive? Hum! Guess I should have listened to my wife after all and spent that money a little more wisely... GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK NUMANOID WEIR!!!!! Gary Numan's career is alive because Gary WEBB has refused to give up. Gary WEBB has not succumb to alcoholism or drug addiction or squandered his money away like so many other artists before him. (Well... okay... maybe he did squander _some_ of it away.) Gary WEBB is responsible for keeping Gary Numan's career going... NOT the sole efforts of the UK fan base alone, nor all the Numan fans worldwide. Granted, without fans, there may well be no future, but the fans in no way MAKE the artist. If it were not for the artist, there would be no fans. If Gary WEBB gives up on Gary Numan's career in music, you might as well stick all your support up your tight (an assumption, if you take in recent digest debate, it is possible that...) UK "arse" because NOTHING you (or any of us -- solely, or collectively) do will change Gary WEBB's decision or Gary Numan's demise! Back to my point. If the UK fans are so damn convinced that they own Gary Numan, lock, stock and barrel - try convincing Gary WEBB of that. Now, I'm sure not _ALL_ UK fans believe such outright bullshit, but there are some fans (UK and others) who think Gary Numan owes them "something." Sorry folks, you might as well put away your markers, 'cos Gary Numan (or Gary Webb) doesn't owe anyone a damn thing. And if you continue waiting for some personal delivery of a dream you've concocted in your own mind - I'm sure you'll be waiting a long, long time. And then an eternity after that. About the time hell freezes over I'd guess. If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Gary even written a song or to about "fans," their "need" and assumed ownership of him? Now, I will give UK fans credit for keeping the Spice Girls going (and quite a few others I do not care to go on about). And thanks a lot for that, by the way! I'm beginning to miss the days when I knew only two or three people who even remember who Gary Numan is. There are a large number of people who consider themselves "Numanoids" who I wish I never knew existed. Hell, I've _known_ murders, drug addicts and all-out freaks who are better "company" than some Numanoids I've had the displeasure to discover exist in this world (thanks to this cesspool we call the internet) -- which includes areas _outside_ of the UK, for those of you unfamiliar. Perhaps markp@east89a.demon.co.uk stated it best: > I'm sure Gary would be horrified if he knew how "Serious" some of his fan base had > become. When it get's to the stage where people start to take comments > about Gary personally you know they've lost it. There's a fine line > between fanatasism and obsesion. > The possessiveness being displayed by some is sickening. As well as frightening. John Lennon (from the UK, hum, coincidence?...) was assassinated by someone who considered their self a "fan" (not from the UK -- imagine that, in a country where automatic weapons are as accessable as a drivers license in most countries). Take into consideration how accessible Gary Numan is when touring, and as vulnerable as Gary WEBB is, maybe it's better that Gary does not tour at all -- at least one of the "fans" won't put an end to any possible "future" for all of us. Gary Numan's career will not end until Gary WEBB decides to end it -- regardless of record label executives or contracts or deranged fans -- well, okay... THAT has ended it for some in the past! He has experience to fall back on -- I think I read that somewhere. Remember one thing: Gary WEBB is responsible for the incarnation that is Gary Numan -- no one else! Just a note from one of those "totally-worthless-to-Gary's-career" fans who owns a considerable amount of legitimate Gary Numan material (and paid premium import prices for after a lengthy wait for a special order to arrive) but had absolutely-fucking-nothing to do with supporting Gary Numan's career in any way! Oh, but wait, there is that "of British descent" thing I was born with... Dammit! Now I gotta re-think this whole damn thing! Sorry... I'll have to get back to you... Click... -- Troy L. Walters Indiana, USA tlwalter@tctc.com http://www.tctc.com/~tlwalter Heading straight for the Numan-llennium -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... © ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:28:54 -0500 From: Jeff Tolva Subject: Telekon 4 sale/trade To: "'Numanews'" Numanoids, I have the Beggars Banquet (UK version...cat no. BEGA 19) of the Telekon = album on vinyl for sale/trade. It also includes the free 7" single of = "Remember I Was Vapour (live)" b/w "On Broadway (live)". Both pieces of = vinyl are in good condition. If you're interested, make me an offer. Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:39:01 +0100 From: Tom Gorham Subject: Touring the UK To: "Gary Numan" >lt will only happen if Gary can attract new, young and COOL fans. Old Numanoids >don't fall into that catagory I'm afraid I agree with almost all of what Matthew Roberts says, but Gary Numan isn't cool to the younger generation. His music only appeals to a tiny segment of the population. There's an obvious way to remedy it (bring in fresh producers, take a few risks, change the style, become more accessible), but he tried most of them in the eighties and it didn't work for him then. Tom Regards Tom Gorham 21b Blacket Place Edinburgh EH9 1RJ Tel: 0131 667 1997 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:41:57 +0100 From: "Nick" Subject: Tubeway Vision To: "Gary Numan" Hi All, Antonio said "But to make things better for anybody who reads a bad Numan review in the music press... just look at the crap that gets good reviews and thank whatever god you may or may not believe in that at least Numan isn't in the same category as shite like Ocean Colour Scene." I see Antonio,If anyone else gets a good review it's crap and if Gary gets a bad review it's good :-) You've confirmed what I already knew about you and Joey I take your point about the paperback and agree it's common practice for others to compromise themselves and milk the cash cow :-) tis about time you admitted that Gary is doing the same and finally Mark Pearson rightly said "To work the system to it's fullest you need the help of the professional low life snakes that perpetuate that system. They alone know what it takes to survive in that environment. Mum and Dad however don't. I can't help feeling that if Gary is SERIOUS about wanting another REAL shot he has to retire Mum and Dad to the Algarve for a well earned retirement" Yes I agree Although I think it's a bit too late to restructure now. :-) How hard it must have been for Tony when the bubble burst. I am sure all of us have to agree Gary was never in any real position to sack his father. - I am certain Garys career would have gone a lot further though. (imho) - LordFox "that's too bad" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:55:24 +0100 From: "Andrew West" Subject: UK NU-GIG MEETUP To: "Numan Digest" Dear Digesters Are there any suggestions for meeting up before the NU-GIG on the 12th? I understand that many of you will be meeting in the "FIRKIN" pub next to the Shep Bush Empire. I think it would be fun if we could stand out from the rest of the Numan fan base. We could all wear silly hats or have our Email addresses tattooed on our foreheads! Any sugestions will be gratefully received. Ooooh i can't wait!!See you there oh and mine's a pint!!!! Andy West http://pages.city2000.net/~donut http://www.city2000.com/bu/donut-design.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:39:39 -0500 (EST) From: Machman@netdirect.net Subject: Wow! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello Fellow Numanoids!! Wow, am I feeling good! A few reasons. Well, I hate that I have to buy all new CDs of the BB stuff just to get the B-sides and alternate takes of stuff, was always hoping they would show up on a special 2-CD set one day, of nothing but B-sides, and rarities. But at anyrate, they are such a good price, I was going to buy them anyway. Well, a couple weeks, I saw most of them at a Best Buy(big store with electronics, PCs, and appliances, as well as a pretty good music sellection. Well, I got there, and they only had White Noise, The Mix II, and Premier sitting there. Well, Mixed feelings. So I grabbed a clerk, and I asked him if any of the other stores in the same city might have them. He said "artist?" I spelled N.U.M.A.N., then he goes, "oh, Gary Numan? yeah, we have been selling loads of his stuff. It is going out of hear like crazy" WOW, at a main stream store mind you!! Well, then after dinner, went to a comic shop based on what I read in the lasst newsletter about the Dawn thing, and must say, they are touting him like crazy!! There is the inside cover talking about Numan, see it at then the cartoon inside the book which I have yet to scan, and then the full back cover art!!! at then in the back, it talks more about Numan, and has Exile for sale, as well as the Dawn related stuff. THEN!! I went to pick up a copy of GEAR magazine. It is a new mens magazine, kinda like GQ, being put out by the guy that started Spin magazine. Flipping through it, I see Gravity Kills, but it is Gary Numan doing the interview!!! Very short, but neat to see. Well folks, That's all for tonight. Take care. Mark A Hubbard ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************