Gary Numan Digest Thu, 7 Jan 99 Volume 1 : Issue 501 Today's Topics: 1998 Gary Numan Fan Of The Year automatics ok blackmail/drugged. Catch up!!! Dominion Day video Enough about older Numan fans! Favourite Album Shock Gary Numan Digest V1 #500 Good Heavens Help a fellow Numanoid help others! Living in the past? More on Exile nu NUMAN VIDEO FOR SALE Replicas slamming... SCAR website to disappear Singles collection Song Of The Week talk about taking a wierd turn.... What (if anything) has happened to the Newsgroup? ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 05:27:17 -0700 From: "Joey Lindstrom" <> Subject: 1998 Gary Numan Fan Of The Year To: "" <> Well, I received a lot of ballots, and all four candidates received their fair share, but in the end it came down to a neck-and-neck race between two strong candidates. And the final vote was received at about 7pm on December 31st, the last day of voting. It was a vote for George Ellis, which gave him a one-vote victory over his closest challenger. To the victor goes the title "1998 Gary Numan Fan Of The Year" :-) This has been a lot of fun, and if you're in for some more, drop by The World Wide Webb and take a gander at the HORRIBLE photo of George I stuck up on the front page for all to see. After all, it wouldn't do to let him get a swelled head over this. :-) All four candidates were worthy and indeed, for the first couple of weeks it was difficult for me to predict who was going to win - things were fairly close. As for George... swelled head or not, he really did earn this title. The guy flew all over the freakin' world to see Gary on two major tours as well as the one-off in the UK. He's also a really nice guy. George, yer the man! PS - did Y2K bite the Digest early or somethin'? 'Tis 5:30am Sunday morning and no Digest... pout! / From Joey Lindstrom / Interocitor Dot Net / / We are deceived, Valhalla is falling / We are betrayed, we are lost and forsaken. / He's sold the world, sold us all to the hunger / The body of Christ is as black as his soul. / -- Gary Numan, "Prophecy" (from the album _Exile_) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:00:23 +1100 From: "MAUREEN RUMBLE" <> Subject: automatics ok To: <> In regard to the various slagging that the Automatic cd as recently received....... i like Automatic ( Im a GN fan since 79) its also the one cd I can put on when a group of friends come over without getting comments like .............".thats not that Gary Nubold guy is it???? ...haven't you got any Pink Floyd" Oh i also like U got the look Chris Rumble ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:24:44 -0000 From: "steve evans" <> Subject: blackmail/drugged. To: <> Hi, Mathew Roberts said the following: "Hey, how about a mailing campaign! What we do is all e-mail Gary saying that unless he promises to drop these songs, we aren't going to turn up." :-) What like drop the only songs that Gary knows the words to ? and Antonio said: "Unfortunately, 'Replicas' is about the third worst album Numan has ever made, (after 'Machine and Soul' and the dire 'Automatic') apart from 'Me, I Disconnect From You' and possibly 'You Are In My Vision', the album is not that good. 'Down In The park' is possibly the only Numan song ever to be over-rated by the music press, and AFE is just a rather poor pop song. Errr... in my opinion..." Huh.............................. You can't be serious man ? 'Replicas' is a masterpiece. Don't take this the wrong way Antonio but in this case you are talking a load of crap. Please tell me what you were on when you wrote your article "I want some" (purely for educational purposes) :-) cya next time. nickfox 'cave canum' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:22:37 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Catch up!!! To: Hello all!! Well, I have been going back over the past couple months of Digests.(was without my PC for a while) So I am about two months behind you all in my reading. So, I just wanted to touch on a few points. Someone asked what our first Numan LP was.. Mine was TPP, which my cousin bought me aftet I fawned all over Cars. From then on, I was hooked. From then on I bought everything I could hook my little paws on! Then, there was the question as to favorite track.... hmmm, I really do not think I can say there is one, as it swings back and forth from time to time. "Tracks" is up there, as well as "We Have a Technical" and "Downstat" and....oh never mind, too many great songs over the many years. Then someone asked, what we thought was the great single that never was!!! "I Don't believe" should have been a single, vs. a B-side. While Numan has had many fantastic B-sides over the years, this one really should have been a single. It had the Force, the energy, and oh yeah, the Hook that it takes to make a publicly welcome single!! One last thing today, I still have a copy of the Berserker tour on PAL that I have never watched up for sale/trade. I finally got a copy on NTSC, so I no longer need to hang onto this one. I am sure one of you fine Numanoids would love to have it!! Well, I think I have mumbled enough for now. Later, Mark A Hubbard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 15:15:53 CST From: "Scott M. Barnes" <> Subject: Dominion Day video To: I haven't seen many reports of people seeing the Dominion Day video on television, so I thought I would let y'all know that they played this video in it's entirety early this morning on the Austin Music Network, which is the local all music channel. This is my first post to the digest, and I want to congratulate Derek on making it to issue 500! My other two favorite musical artists are Deborah Harry (who is back with the original founding members of Blondie) and Marc Almond, who has just announced plans to start his own music label after years of frustrating results with a number of established entities. Maybe Gary would have some advice for Marc based on his Numa experience?! Or maybe not! I have just recently rediscovered Gary in 1998 after first hearing on the radio that Gary was coming to Texas. I had purchased a K-Tel record back in 1980 that featured "Cars" as well as several other new wave classics such as "Call Me", "My Sharona" and "Pop Muzik" by M, (which sounds like it could have been written by Gary if he had been more influenced by the pop and dance scene during that remarkable time). However, I didn't persue his other material until the Exhibition collection came out seven years later. Gary was nice enough to sign the oversize booklet that came with the vinyl release at the concert in Dallas this past May. Still have a lot of catching up to do regarding Gary's output since his glory years, but nothing from the 90's has peaked my interest as much as the version of "Question of Faith" which is on The Mix. Maybe I just prefer this version because I heard it, and grew to love it, before I heard the original Sacrifice version. Hmmmm..... Scott in Austin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:23:15 EST From: Subject: Enough about older Numan fans! To: Ok lot...listen up.....and listen up good! I've had it with people griping about other people's choices for Gary's "best album" based upon age biases! To each his own, I say....and for that matter, quit us making all broad generalizations....I, for one, do NOT think Replicas is his best album and I've had it since it was released! Gary's music stands the test of time famously and THAT is his main appeal to me. Replicas set the standard for the 'machine' Numan.....the 'new Numan' is looking at life, beliefs and questioning the existence of God...I've actually heard veteran Numan fans saying "oh, I can't play Exile in the kids might be influenced!"...Oh come ON! We ARE starting to sound like our parents if that is the kind of view we're going to take....... Music is the highest form of free expression I can think's not for people to judge what is good or bad or whatever....if I had had my way, Celine Dion would have an office job and not shrieking "Staying Alive" in concert, but who am I to say???? She's making a fuck of lot more than I will ever make in my life doing something I'm sure she enjoys doing....just cuz I don't like it that much IS NOT FOR ME TO SAY..... *pant pant pant*......ok, I'm done...... Proud member of "Boys Like Us" Rick in DC.......cheers!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:00:35 -0500 From: Matthew Roberts <> Subject: Favourite Album Shock To: Gary Numan <> With all the voting going on, has anyone proposed a favourite album surve= y? Not just Numan, but anything people care to mention? It might be interesting to know what Numan fans (with access to the Web) like apart from the obvious. I live in hope that Odelay would beat Dare b= ut fear the worst. My current top 15 (limiting myself to 1 per artist) would be: 1. Exile - Gary Numan 1997 (no, really) 2. Adore - The Smashing Pumpkins 1998 (Abandon all hope...) 3. Lovesexy - Prince 1988 (genius, whatever the revisionists say) 4. Earthling - David Bowie 1997 (D'n'B? No! David, no! Oh, OK) 5. Naked - Talking Heads 1988 ("if this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower") 6. Outland - Spear Of Destiny 1987 (Spit it out Kirk) 7. This Is Hardcore - Pulp 1998 (Jarvis says 'fuck off popularity') 8. Antichrist Superstar - Marilyn Manson 1996 (Why aren't NIN this good?)= 9. Songs Of Faith & Devotion - Depeche Mode 1993 (Martin at his peak I fear) 10. Odelay - Beck 1996 (annoyingly clever) 11. Love - The Cult 1985 (drugs are good for you) 12. Gentlemen Take Polaroids - Japan 1980 (Bryan Ferry. But better) 13. Coming Up - Suede 1997 (great pop music) 14. Stories Of Johnny - Marc Almond 1985 (He got it together for once) 15. Trans Europe Express - Kraftwerk 1977 (For more than just 1song) Ridiculous but there you go. Matthew Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 05:10:12 -0800 From: Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #500 To: "Gary Numan" <> Yikes! What was all that MIME stuff in my last message? Let's see if this takes care of it. <<This is Numan's music - his worst album (to my mind) is also the best album released in 1992.>> Thanks to Antonio for pointing out that we Digesters don't speak of "hating" a particular Numan album in the same way we speak of hating an album by Hanson. We just set our hopes too high sometimes, I guess, because Gary has been known to exceed them. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:44:01 -0800 From: Pythoness <> Subject: Good Heavens To: Hey, happy Nu-year indeed to you-all! And as always, thanks to Derek and Dave for such a long haul. I've been on this list since 1994. Whew. I'm finding the discussion regarding Exile to be on the whole pretty entertaining (though I'll probably be tired of it in another couple of issues), but come on, it's all a matter of taste. I can certainly see how someone that really enjoyed Gary's "Janet Jackson" period would find Exile a let-down. Personally, it's my favorite album for lo, these many years--and at the very least it shows that the man *can* still change his spots (after all the vaguely funky albums, I was convinced he was stuck--and when I say that funk and jazz are the only two types of music that I'm allergic to, you will realize learning to like many of those albums was an uphill struggle for me--but *I* like M+S better than Outland, so *there!*), which is important. He could have changed to almost anything and I'd be relieved--he happened to change to a style I do like and did it very well, so I was not only relieved but ecstatic. Matthew Roberts wondered: > >1. Do bands TEND to get worse over time?, which prompts:- > You know, I disagree with you on this one--I think the answer is an undilutable YES, and I think the reasons are fairly obvious. It's been said that you have twenty years to write the first album and six months to write the second. If your first album is a success, you're going to be all sucked up in music biz and more prey than ever to A & R men (apologies to any A & R people out there) and demographics and greed. Moreover, there is burnout and depletion of inspiration to consider. >2. Is peoples TENDANCY to prefer earlier music irrational (i.e. independe= >nt >of the quality of the music)? Depends on what you mean by "irrational." If you mean that people just like the older stuff because they heard it first and the rest of it never really "lived up" to that first album, than yes. OTOH, I've found time after time after time that I will get on to a band through their most recent recording, and, in collecting their back catalog, discover that I find their earlier stuff radically superior (ie, I finally got on to SoM through Vision Thing, which I love. But I find that I like their pre-album singles better than any of the later stuff). I believe this is because there's a tendency for an artist to evolve in certain ways throughout their career--some people are going to be caught by the later sound and some by the earlier (to my ear often fresher) sound. But then I tend to like music that's rather raw, rough-edged, and direct rather than glossy, and the tendency is generally toward glossy. My boyfriend is exactly opposite--he almost never likes a band until the third album. As a result, I did manage to get him on to Numan (which is a minor miracle, because we're about as musically incompatible as possible) and he immediately fell in love with Telekon, which is still quite low on my list. But then he likes Sacrifice, too, which is about the only place on the Venn diagram we overlap. Ok, I'm being long-winded again. My point is that whichever album you like may or may not date you (and some new fans *do* find Replicas to be a fantastic album!), but it doesn't *mark* you. And PS: I'm not going to blame Rod Reynolds for it, because it's obvious he's on our side and it's good to have him in the camp and I have no complaints about his other work , but the cover of the reissued Fury does look like SHIT. I cringed when I took it out of the box. It's basically all blotchy grey except for the persimmon-colored lips. Not like it was a good cover to begin with, but there has been NO NO NO improvement made in this smeary version. HOWEVER, it was DAMNED GOOD to hear The Fury again: I'd forgotten how much of my favorite Numan lyrics and sound was on that album. Ahhhh! --Which is where "fuck what the cover looks like" comes in. :-) zg Ziggy Blum Ziggy's House O' Vermin Updates delayed by dental work! Check after Xmas! --------------------------- You know who you remind me of? Bosch! --D. J. Petrie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 03:23:27 -0500 From: Stevorama <> Subject: Help a fellow Numanoid help others! To: Hi guys: The only thing this has to do with the list is that I'm a Numanoid looking for help. I'll be riding a bicycle 275 miles from Orlando to Miami in March in the RED RIBBON RIDE to raise money for 5 Florida AIDS organizations. Part of my job is begging for dollars. Please help if you can by checking out my site: Thanks! Steve in Florida (waiting for the DANCE reissue) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:24:59 EST From: Subject: Living in the past? To: Matthew Roberts wrote (well, more than this): >I believe the answer to 1 is no. I think it's glaringly, dumbfoundingly, >crystal clearly no. This SUGGESTS the answer to 2 is yes. If I'm right, >that is IF I'm right, then there's a very good chance that a lot of Numan= >fans are deluding themselves. How sad. You're ignoring a very basic possibility. To quote Opus the Penguin, "Maybe they just LIKE IT!!!" Maybe they aren't "deluding themselves," or "irrational," or "living in the past"... maybe, in their honest opinion, Replicas is better than Exile... maybe they're being subjective (opinions tend to be, y'know)... maybe, just maybe, they have given good, honest listens to every album that has come along, and the early stuff is still at the top of their personal lists. Hey, in a world as crazy as this one, it just might happen. I still think Replicas is one of Gary's best albums, and I admit it was "my first" and I do attach a bit of sentimental value to it. And I'm under 25. Of course, I think Exile's better, so I guess I'm not living in the past after all... except for that pesky preference for music from '78-'80 over the music of today. Damn my personal preferences, hell, fuck them even! :-) Cheers and I hope the hangovers have gone away by now, Riana PS Could anybody help me? There's this *cringe* '80s song (well, at least it was on the *wince* '80s radio station) I heard recently and really liked... the vox sound familiar but I can't place the band. The song goes "We're riding on the escalator of life, we're shopping in the human mall," something like that. If anyone could name the song and artist, I would much appreciate it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:18:30 GMT0BST From: "James Chapman" <> Subject: More on Exile To: I notice that King Richard has had a bit of stick in the last couple of digests for his dislike of Exile and for liking M+S. Well honestly! Well from the poll I did a few months ago, it seems as though he's not the only one. Exile seems a love-hate kind of album. Which makes me a bit more unusual as I like it, but I don't think it's one of the best things ever made to land on this earth like most of you do. It's not the lyrics that bother me either, like some of the religious people, it's the music. It generally doesn't do much for me. There's the occasional flash of pure genius (Dead Heaven, Dark, Angel Wars-the biggest grower in the history of Numanity). But most of the rest is-well, OK but hardly mind-blowing. And I don't like Absoluton at all but that IS because of the lyrics, all that "swimming across oceans", lovey-dovey rubbish. I think it was just on there to make up the numbers like U Got The Look was on M&S. I'm not a 79er either-I just got into Numan in '97 albeit on old stuff. I remember when Exile came out I hadn't heard anything after Warriors and saw Exile on the headphone booth in HMV, I listened to some of each track and didn't like it at all. I eventually got it in January by which time it was on sale! I only got it because of all the on-line reviews saying how it grows on you, and it has, to a degree. But if Exile had been the first Numan album I had heard, would I have loved him as much as I do now? And Richard- instead of selling it for $3, why didn't you take it back to the shop and get a full refund or exchange it for something else? I'd have kept it if I was only going to get $3 for it. And to Paddy Vickers- are you actually counting the number of times for Exile to grow on you? :-) I thought if you liked it so much you would have listened to it several times a day for several months after release like some people do, surely it would come to more than 59 :-) And there's another well loved Numan album that I can't say I'm terribly keen on - Replicas. Yes, there are some timeless gems like AFE, DITP, and Me! I Disconnect From You, and the title track is very good as well but Praying to The Aliens is OK but nothing special, the three guitar based tunes would have been better on the first album, and I don't really go for that type of music, and as for the closing two instrumentals, well When The Machines Rock has comedy value but sounds terribly dated now, and I Nearly Married a Human makes me want to fall asleep. And why wasn't We Have a Technical on there? And what about We Are So Fragile? They are two great songs. I guess the reason I'm not terribly keen on Replicas is because I'm not an original 79 fan, and I can imagine at the time it blew most other music out of the window, but a lot of it seems to not meet the standard of other Numan albums. Saying that, it beats the first album which in turn beats that awful Plan album-I hate punky based guitar rock. TPP, Telekon and Sacrifice were much, much better (before you all start calling me not a fan). But I bet I'm in for some real flaming now as I announce that while not really liking Tubeway Army, Replicas, and Exile which many people seem to adore (although they all have a few excellent tracks on them), I am just absolutely hooked on Berserker, Strange Charm, and Metal Rhythm, which many seem to hate :-) Even Machine and Soul isn't that bad (Now Richard has had the courage to admit liking M+S, then so will I ! ) I know I complained about the Roland D50 synth sound a few weeks ago, but it suits the Metal Rhythm songs just fine. It was the same sound on songs from 79-80 on the Skin Mechanic which was my main complaint-those songs suit the Polymoog much better. Right that's it. I think that's the longest mail I've ever written to the digest. James-who's off to buy a shield ready for the abuse in the next digest :-) P.S. To Dave Datta- sorry I forgot to give you credit in my Christmas thanks list- you do a wonderful job! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- "And Ralf Schumacher is the son of double world champion, Michael Schumacher Murray Walker, 1997 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:19:09 +0100 From: remco engels <> Subject: nu To: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 09:03:23 EST From: Subject: NUMAN VIDEO FOR SALE To: I have some great footage of Gary from 1979-1985.I have the 3 Major video releases ( Touring Principle / MicroMusic 1981/ Berserker Tour/ NumanNewMan/ Many t.v. and interview appearances through the years. Each tape is $20 post-paid.Please e-mail me if you have any questions or comments. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:48:30 +0100 From: DE VISSCHER Luc <> Subject: Replicas slamming... To: NUMAN Digest <> I for one, am one of those people who believe Replicas, The Pleasure Principle, Dance and I, Assassin are amongst the best of Gary. Mind you, I love Exile almost as much, but think of the following: In 1979, I was 15 years old, and started to discover MY music, the one I liked. I am now 34, and I have to admit, I'm not so easily impressed any longer. I've got a wife and 2 wonderful sons, and music, though still very important, doesn't play THE main part in my life. So my relation to Replicas and PP (the album that changed my life!!!) is not comparable. Did I grew wiser...? Also, I DO like Automatic, Radio Heart, DaDaDang and all the stuff. And concerning M&S, I also TRIED (very hard) to like it, and I also believed maybe I should start to look for another favorite musical artist. But then came Sacrifice, which is soooo good, but the sound quality is so bad I hardly play it. And Exile..... If Gary continues in that direction, with real drummer and guitar player, and a better production, it is possible the his next album will simply be his best ever. Oh yes, since 1981, I have gone to every UK tour, and I admit that, though I love AFE and Cars, on the UK tours Gary can leave them out. On European tours NOT(!!!!!!!), since Gary's only been there twice, a LOAD of people will come to hear these songs!!!! That's my personal opinion... Best regards, Luc DE VISSCHER THE NUMAN FACTOR - BELGIUM TEL +32.2.714.68.15 FAX +32.2.714.68.19 GSM +32.75.680.560 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 19:20:58 -0500 From: tlwalter <> Subject: SCAR website to disappear To: Gary Numan <> Hello all, Sad news (for me anyway). For many reasons, I must remove SCAR - In recognition of Gary Numan from cyberspace. I deeply regret this, but can not avoid it any longer. My system has gradually slipped into the twilight zone over the past nine weeks, and I have been unable to correct all of it's bizarre problems. I fix many people's PCs on a regular basis, but can not revive my own. That sucks! So, I must bid you all farewell - for now. I hope to return to cyberspace (someday) with an even better Gary Numan fan website! I just don't know when that can possibly be... Take care all, and thanks to all those who have been so incredible! I'm so deeply depressed now! Troy L. Walters Former keeper of SCAR - In Recognition of Gary Numan I'll try (somehow, somewhere) to check this free e-mail: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:29:53 GMT0BST From: "James Chapman" <> Subject: Singles collection To: Happy New Year to you all! I've been offline recently and there are some things from the last few digests I want to comment on. In response to my enthusiasm about a singles collection, Austin wrote: > I can't think of anything worse. Its a dreadful idea! The only > commercially available records that should be promoted in the foreseeable > future should be new Gary Numan albums. Nothing else should detract from > that. > I see your point, the new album is the top priority, but a singles collection could be used to promote it. I remember all the press attention Gary got in 1996 when the Premier Hits came out and many thought Exile should have been released then, albeit on NUMA. The Premier Hits is how I became a fan, having got hooked on Cars. If there is decent promotion behind an 84-98 singles collection, and it clearly labelled the singles collection, or greatest hits 84-98 or something, then more people would buy it. There's something about a greatest hits compilation which a normal album doesn't have. The other reason is we haven't had the post Beggars Banquet singles all together before. The 7" versions of The Fury and Strange Charm singles are not yet on CD (I think) so this is a wortwhile reason for fans to buy it. A possible track listing could be: Berserker My Dying Machine Your Fascination Call Out The Dogs Miracles This Is Love I Can't Stop New Thing From London Town I Still Remember New Anger America Heart Emotion (unfortunately) The Skin Game Machine + Soul A Question of Faith Absolution Dominion Day (all 7"/edit versions) Plus maybe a new single from the forthcoming album. I'd buy it! James ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- "And Ralf Schumacher is the son of double world champion, Michael Schumacher Murray Walker, 1997 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 21:07:45 -0700 From: "Joey Lindstrom" <> Subject: Song Of The Week To: "" <> The Song Of The Week for January 6th 1999 is: My Love Is A Liquid - original version Nominated by Joseph DeAngelis / From Joey Lindstrom / Interocitor Dot Net / / If you saw a heat wave, would you wave back? / --Steven Wright ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 03:40:26 -0000 From: "King Richard" <> Subject: talk about taking a wierd turn.... To: "gary numan digest" <> HOWDY !!!!!!! KING RICHARD HERE..... Not king of white socks toweling.... Not king of the shoes that don't fit that good. Not king of eighties music. that is a email address for my 80's site. It came about when I was asked to do a review of the new cd of TOMMY TUTONE . The link made from the official fan club to my page had me listed as that. I thought it was funny. So I made it my email. You did not have to make this personal --- King Richard The Kingdom King Richard's 80's Musical Kingdom: Band write ups for January, THE CARS/ THE GO-GO'S/ TEARS FOR FEARS..... Stay for dinner next time...we're having barbecued iguana! Check out my chat with TOMMY TUTONE at KING OF 80'S MUSIC Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:57:29 +1300 From: "D & J Hall" <> Subject: What (if anything) has happened to the Newsgroup? To: "Numan Digest" <> I posted this question a while ago, but didn't get a helpful response, indeed I got no response at all... Take 2: What (if anything) has happened to the newsgroup for the digest? I used to subscribe to the newsgroup to get more regular updates and the chance to easily respond to individual posts. Now I cannot find the newsgroup on my ISPs news server. Is the newsgroup still around? If so what is it called and can someone tell me the address of a news server that has it? My ISP is generally pretty good at only censoring newsgroups that the Dept of Internal Affairs requests them to remove. I need to know (as I can't remember) what it is called so that I can ask my ISP why they are no longer hosting it. Am I to take it that Exile has offended the DIA in some way because of it's "controversial" content? If so, then HE (Gary) should be able to use this to his advantage as it always seems that banned material has a way of selling. Looking forward to you replies! Darren Hall. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ******************************