Gary Numan Digest Sun, 13 Jun 99 Volume 1 : Issue 546 Today's Topics: About As Dense As Possible (Was "Finished") a response to the gary-hater Are we sad bastards? Argh! Benefit of the Doubt Danny's Comments Danny T Danny T's comments Danny T's remarks Danny T - Finished!? Fanny T Finished (2 msgs) Finished! (3 msgs) Gary Numan Digest V1 #545 (2 msgs) Jeez! Out of Office AutoReply: AUTO-WHAT?? Posting in error re..dan/finished! re finished reply to Danny T Sylvian, Numan and everything Talk about get a life! Zum-Zum's Zumthing in the air ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:44:20 -0400 From: dagonet@netwide.net (Don McCrum) Subject: About As Dense As Possible (Was "Finished") To: Gary Numan I don't think most people on this (unless Andrew Eldritch, Beethoven, Trent Reznor, etc., is a lurker) is really capable of critiquing Gary Numan. I suppose I could break out the guitar/ keyboard, figure out the chordal progressions and analyze them, state whether or not he's obeying the rules of cantus firmus or if the variation between the two verses is sufficient to keep the brain of the average listener attentive, but I left that kind of over anal-ytical crap behind when I quit being a music major. (Thank whoever runs the universe.) Rock and roll is rock and roll (whether goth or not or modern or hard or metal or whatever). If you enjoy it, and it means something to you, then you enjoy it and it means something to you. That is all it is supposed to do. It was assumed by someone named after an arcade game that I liked G.N. in 1981: I was a confirmed metalhead and "classical" pianist at the time, decidedly not a G.N. fan. I only found out about him in the past two years or so. (Never even heard "are friend electric?" until last year.) I love the new stuff. Is it Beethoven? No. (Good.) Is it going to last forever? Possibly. ("Cars" almost assuredly will. Good or bad, eh, who cares?) Suffice it to say that I like "the new stuff" very much. "Absolution" -- not one of the list's favs -- is one of mine. The first time I danced with my (now) fiance' was to this song. And I will remember that entire dance as long as I live. Could that dance have happened with another song in the background? Maybe, but I tend to doubt it. I understand that there is no logic to that argument at all, but I will always owe Gary a place of honor and thanks. He helped pull a wounded romantic out of being merely wounded and back into being a romantic.... Don * * * Confucius Say: Lovers in triangle not on square. To Which, The Gimliesque Byron sez, "What kind of Zen crap is that?" http://www.netwide.net/users/dagonet/ ICQ #12788034/ AIM: MOAPOG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:03:19 -0400 From: "..s.c.o.t.t.." Subject: a response to the gary-hater To: "Gary Numan" Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:38:47 GMT From: Danny T Subject: Finished! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > I don't expect a single one of you on this digest to agree with what I've > written because your all braindead. Living on past glorys, you've failed to > move with the times, refused to widen your listening experience and take in > different forms of music. Your just like a bunch of Status Quo or Gary > Glitter fans, sad and sneered at. You'll stick by Numan until the bitter > end, but in your heart you know he's crap. He's so embedded in your lives > that if he left you would be unable to cope, your divorced from reality. > Your trapped inside your stale minds. Get out! There's so much brilliant > music out there, music you would enjoy if you weren't so biased and > introspective. Get a life!! Looking forward to the childish, abusive > backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my > comments to the hilt. is it really that hard for you to believe that some people actually like Gary Numan's music? personally, i don't like his mid-80s stuff that much either, and i think some of the drum loops on Sacrifise sound too much like each other. but taken wholly, Exile and Sacrifise are works of art. Two of his best albums to date, i think. besides, if you really dislike Gary Numan so much, why are you even on this list, and why are you wasting your time typing a rather large letter saying how much you hate him. live and let live. it's more fun that way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:30:30 EDT From: SomaCrow@aol.com Subject: Are we sad bastards? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu, sonic4_blade@hotmail.com Danny T wrote: >Gary Numan's next album will be drivel. He hasn't go a clue where he's >going >or what he's doing, that's why Eagle don't want another album off him. > blah blah blah... >music out there, music you would enjoy if you weren't so biased and >introspective. Get a life!! Looking forward to the childish, abusive >backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my >comments to the hilt. I had to check the e-mail address on this one to make sure it wasn't the same guy who lost his cool on the Boys Like Us list a few days ago. Except that guy actually still likes Numan, I think, or he wouldn't have been yelling at us to stay "on topic." Anyway... The last bit says it all - this was a post meant sheerly to provoke, in high hopes of getting a response. This guy can't possibly be a parent, or he'd know that when a child throws a temper tantrum, the best response is no response. Not that I'm a parent. But I do own cats, who live by the principle "negative attention is still attention" and try to provoke me whenever possible. Hello, Danny. Provocation on the Digest is the job of James Chapman and Nick Fox. Really. They have fancy embossed business cards to prove it. Don't step on their turf. Thank you. This guy knows a lot about the history of Numan and the quality of his albums; I'm guessing he's a recently-turned-ex-fan. Be on the lookout for a nice-sized Numan collection coming on the market at rock-bottom price! I remember being a five-year-old with a Casio. Those were the days... Biased, introspective, childlike, abusive, new, improved, lemon-scented, Riana "Here comes the quiet life again..." - poncey poser ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:42:23 -0700 From: "Kristina Panos" Subject: Argh! To: Danny T wrote: "Has anyone compared Numan to the latest ground-breaking electronic acts = such=20 as Nine Inch Nails, Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, Front Line Assembly, = Future=20 Sound Of London, he is like a 5 year old with a casio compared to them. = He=20 really should just give up gracefully but because he is so greedy for = money=20 and success he will just embarass himself until his 50. " Yeah, dude, it's called INFLUENCE and INSPIRATION. Fuck your "new" = electronica, because it's shit, and so are you. You know what? There have been a lot of sci-fi movies since Star Wars, = all of them with better effects and such, but they do nothing to change my = high opinion of this legendary film. =20 Kristina Proud member of the Braindead Assembly of Numanoids Club Reverend Kristina K. Panos Chairwoman of the Department of Redundancy Department US Senate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:38:13 -0500 From: Kenneth.ZAZULA@st.com Subject: Benefit of the Doubt To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I'm going to assume the Danny T just hasn't had sex in a REALLY long time...... -Z ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:04:13 PDT From: James Choma Subject: Danny's Comments To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Danny, <> You're not going to get childish, abusive backlash based on expressing your opinion, but you're going to get it based upon your unsolicited comments about other folks' musical tastes. Opinions are fine, but labelling those of us who have different musical tastes than you as "biased," "introspective" and "braindead" does nothing to support your position. If you like David Sylvian, good for you. I can't say I've heard anything compelling from him or his band Japan to qualify your comment. Nor do I want to spend time listing all the hundreds of artists I like and dislike to justify my "musical credentials" for also liking Gary Numan's music, past and present. To assume those of us on this list listen exclusively to Numan music day-in, day-out is simply foolish. Your opinions on the music and Numan are welcome, but your comments directed toward each of us... c'mon. Don't spend your time criticizing people for what they choose to like and dislike. Instead, spend your time working on how to improve yourself... your use of grammar for instance. Jim Choma Part of the "I Enjoy Numan Along with Other Artists" Club. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:18:19 +0100 From: "Antonio" Subject: Danny T To: "Gary Numan" Danny T wrote some shit - I suspect the next Digest will be full of replies to this tosser - in fact I'm looking forward to it ;) So Gary Numan is crap. The guy had to give out a hotmail addy for replies... my, that's brave! What I have never understood about trolls is why they have to seek out newsgroups and mailing lists on things they don't like, just so they can make some half-arsed attempt at winding people up there! Am I supposed to be devastated that somebody who likes Nine Inch Nails thinks I am living in the past? (Not a dig at NiN, who I do like, just that naming a band who've been going for donkey's years as new and cutting-edge was funny) The one sensible thing he said was that there is some excellent music out there - what he fails to understand is that I, and many other Numan fans (in fact all of the Numan fans I know, and that is a *lot* of people) DO listen to a LOT of other music. I like music from most of the last 20 odd years - Numan is just an artist who I have liked an awful lot for a long time. If that makes me some sad retro-geek, then fine. I couldn't give a flying sheeps arsehole. Let's just examine exactly who the sad wanker is here - I, as a Numan fan, buy Numan records and go to Numan gigs. And I enjoy it. In the last year, I have seen plenty of gigs by other bands - I will be going to see Tricky soon. I have seen Bjork, who really *is* at the cutting edge of music. I know what is considered cool and I also know exactly what I like. How 'cool' the music I listen to is makes not one jot of difference - I like what I like. End of story. I, as an Internet user, participate in newsgroups and mailing lists based on subjects I am interested in. What I do not do, is sit in my bedroom all night searching for things I don't like, then trolling said groups and lists with complete bollocks. For that would be sad. I also post using an e-mail address where I can be contacted easily - no annonymous Hotmail addy. I do have a web-based e-mail account which I use when my mail server is down, but I don't direct all my flame-worthy posts to that account. To do so would be cowardice. As for Danny T and his amazing list of 'cool' bands he likes. Danny, your list read like a who's who of 'groovy bands' - you only like them because they're popular, don't you? I happen to like most if not all of the bands in your list - it's just that my tastes are much wider than that. I have no problem whatsoever with your opinions on Gary Numan. You are perfectly entitled to thos opinions. What I had a problem with was your stereotyping everyone on this list as some sad anorak who only listens to Numan because Numan is all they know. You do not know me, you do not know anything about me, yet you are compelled to witlessly slag off me and everyone else here, using false accusations of blind following and brain-dead hero- worship. Sure, I like Numan and I like him a lot. That says nothing at all about me other than I like Numan. It certainly doesn't say I am 'biased and introspective' - the opposite is true. And as for 'Get a life' - sorry, but I already have one. A fun one, too. I think it's Danny who needs to get the life, here. After all, there is a lot of stuff on the net which he would probably like - maybe he should be there looking at stuff he likes, rather than wasting his time here on a subject which he claims to have no interest in at all. I did notice that for a Numan hater, he seems to know a lot about Numan's current career - how sad is that? I dislike Paul Weller, for example, but I could not make any comment on his last album as I have never heard it, since I do not like the man's music, though I did like The Jam - there is a parallel here - I liked Paul Weller's old stuff but think he's crap now, difference is, I have not followed his career closely enough since to know what label he is on! I have better things to do with my time. Danny T has kept up to date with the career of a man whose music he thinks is shit. And *that*, people, is the mark of a truly sad man. Antonio 'Eat Plutoneum Death You Disgusting Alien weirdoes!' - DR & Quinch ----------- http://www.goffboi.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:02:05 -0400 From: "Tony R. Boies" Subject: Danny T's comments To: Numan Digest Danny, you sound upset...here are my responses to some issues you raised: 1) There are plenty of people out there who agree with you that Numan did his best work between 1979-1981, and should have retired after his Farewell concerts. But there aren't that many who are members of the Digest. I always thought that most of the Digest members were people who considered some of Gary's post-1981 work meritable. 2) Yes, there is a lot of great music out there besides Numan's offerings. But most, if not almost all of the members of the Digest listen to other music besides Gary's. I myself like David Sylvian, Nine Inch Nails, Roxy Music, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, Depeche Mode, Smog, King Crimson, etc. There is certainly more to life than Gary Numan. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:47:39 +-1000 From: Martin Purvis Subject: Danny T's remarks To: "'Gary Numan'" Danny, you may be right about us living in the past. So what? I'd rather live in the past and be happy than live in the present and be as miserable as you appear to be. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:45:31 +0200 From: "JaFi" Subject: Danny T - Finished!? To: For what it's worth here are my comments.... In Digest #545 Danny T wrote: >He never programs his synths or >experiments with sounds, and he lifts all of his drum loops from the same >Sample CD's that everybody else is using (apart from the big acts who know >better). I could *almost* agree with you concerning the drums, at least for Exile and Sacrifice... But I certainly would not say that Gary Numan never experiments with sounds. We are talking about the same Gary Numan, aren't we?? >Lets face it, apart from the odd track, Gary was only ever good between 1979 >and 1981, then after the farewell concerts he should have quit for good. He >would be a legend. But no, he had to ruin it by producing appalling albums >like Machine & Soul, soiling his past achievements. He writes exile and says >its his best ever album, what crap. In 1979 Replicas was cutting edge, ahead >of its time, awesome. In 1998 Exile was just a duff electro album by a has >been once electro pioneer. It's my opinion too that M&S is one of the worst albums Gary Numan ever recorded. But that's a matter of taste. I'm sure many fans think different. For me Exile IS one of the best albums he recorded, and if Gary thinks it is, well, why not? It may not be "ahead of it's time" as Replicas was in '79, but I don't think it deserves the term "duff electro album". There are quite a few of Gary's songs I'm not very fond of or simply do not like. But I don't expect to like *everything* an artist produces. If you don't like the music anymore, well that's fine by me.... Which brings the following question to mind: Why the hell are you still listening to Gary if you don't like the music since '81?! Just keep playing Replicas again and again and again and..... >I don't expect a single one of you on this digest to agree with what I've >written because your all braindead. Living on past glorys, you've failed to >move with the times, refused to widen your listening experience and take in >different forms of music. Your just like a bunch of Status Quo or Gary >Glitter fans, sad and sneered at. You'll stick by Numan until the bitter >end, but in your heart you know he's crap. He's so embedded in your lives >that if he left you would be unable to cope, your divorced from reality. >Your trapped inside your stale minds. Get out! There's so much brilliant >music out there, music you would enjoy if you weren't so biased and >introspective. Get a life!! Looking forward to the childish, abusive >backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my >comments to the hilt. Ah, so after giving Gary his bashing you decide to abuse the fans too. Well, ok, you certainly are entitled to your own opinion. Fine. But to call someone (and in this case even quite a few people) braindead just because you (think) know they won't / don't agree with you is a way out of line and insulting (and childish too btw). You seem to think that all a Gary Numan fan does is live and breath "Numan" all day long. I'm sorry to contradict you but that's simply not true. How can you claim that I have failed to move with the times, widen my listening experience etc. ? Have we met before? Do you know who I am?? Or who any of us are? Do you really belive that we haven't heard of any other music? I listen to a wide range of music, from classic to heavy metal and back again and I enjoy it just as much as I enjoy listening to Gary Numan. Just because I have more Gary Numan CDs than from any other artist doesn't make me "braindead" or "stale minded", and it hasn't "divorced me from reality" either. I'm not saying that everything Gary Numan puts on an album is worth it's weight in diamonds and gold. As I stated above there are quite a few Numan songs I do not like. It simply means I generally like his music best. What's wrong with that? You're a fine one to be talking about "childish, abusive backlash" - your "comments" were quite ok until you started getting a little radical towards the other Digesters. If you think Numan is "crap" that's fine. I assume you can judge this fact by having listened to the music and not liking it (or hating it or whatever you call it). But how can you judge the rest of us? Again I wonder why you bother buying the albums and reading the Digest if you are so sure that Gary's been producing "crap" since '81.... Don't like it? Don't get it! But let other people enjoy what they like to listen to and for the reasons they like to listen to it, without getting abusive. I'm not condemning you for not liking Numan, I'm asking you to listen to what you like, and let everyone else buy the music they want to without calling them braindead etc. for listening to something you don't enjoy (to which you are certainly entitled). Are you maybe the one suffering from some kind of complex? Jacqueline Proud Member Of People Who Actually Like Numan And Are Going To The Numan Gig At The Forum In London Even Though It Means They Are Wierdos Without Lives - hope see you all (well, some of you anyway) in Tallyho.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:45:59 +0100 From: "Gary" Subject: Fanny T To: Arse! Gary H ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:30:33 +0100 From: "Chris Thomas" Subject: Finished To: Interesting point of view, to which you're entitled BUT.... Personally mate I couldnt give a sh*t what you think, I like what I like, I don't go round ranting about steps or the spice girls for example and If you feel as strongly as you seem to I suggest you don't join the fan club........ You could come to the Forum gig on saturday though wearing a T shirt saying "I'm Danny T" though, I'd pay an extra tenner to see the welcome you get...... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:06:07 +0000 From: steve.gardner@intentia.co.uk Subject: Finished To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) Danny, Why don't you leave the digest. I suspect that the only reason that you wrote your item was to facilitate a response. I presume that the majority of the people on the digest not only listen to Gary Numan but many other artists, including the ones mentioned by yourself. I also find it quite amusing that you expect the backlash but don't sign the entry - talk about punch and run away! You are quite a sad man if your only entertainment in life is writing such drivel to get a rise out of other people. Sad, sad, sad, sad man. Stephan Proud member of Going to the Forum on Sat and looking forward to a great day/night! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:55:52 +0100 From: Emperor Subject: Finished! To: sonic4_blade@hotmail.com In message , Danny T writes >Gary Numan's next album will be drivel. He hasn't go a clue where he's going >or what he's doing, that's why Eagle don't want another album off him. The >blah blah blah... >introspective. Get a life!! Looking forward to the childish, abusive >backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my >comments to the hilt. -- Hmmmmmm It seems A Troll has invaded the Digest. ( a known troll at that ). So a Fan defending Numan will `justify your comments` ? The mind boggles at your Trollism....I suggest the back-lash on this loser is short and swift. One question Troll....why did you take the time to subscribe to this just post and annoy ? I shall be very happy to inform your ISP of this. -- Steve ! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:48:52 -0700 From: Gregor Torrence Subject: Finished! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu (Gary Numan) At 01:00 AM 6/10/99 CDT, Danny T wrote: >I don't expect a single one of you on this digest to agree with what I've >written because your [SIC] all braindead. Let me be the first person to make a call to reason. I know that many people are prone to flaming people who write these sort of messages. Let me sum it up: He is saying that your opinion is wrong. These sort of posts are the equivalent of inciting a riot. I certainly hope that the next 15 digests aren't full of replies to him. We have better things to do with our time that entertain this guy by replying to his rant. Gregor. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:25:08 +1200 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Finished! To: "Gary Numan" As a Gary Numan fan I initially took offence at the posting by Danny T, but on a second reading found that he had some relevant points to make and they are worthy of discussion. I realised that what irked me most was the way in which Danny decided to make his point. There is nothing wrong with stating an opinion ("Opinions are like @ssholes, everybody has one"). What is wrong is confusing criticism with unjustified, personal, attacks. Especially when I am included. I don't know what has made Danny so angry, but a posting such as this is a sad reflection on whatever reality he exists in. Let's face it, a 3 year old could put an argument better than he did. I profess to have no musical credentials and have seen no evidence as to those of "Mr T". I take it that, musically, we are similarly qualified. Intellectually I warrant the story is a little different. WARNING: This is a long post which largely counter Dannys arguments. I do, however, ask some questions of the digest at the end. Read on. I'll take Danny's points in turn: >Gary Numan's next album will be drivel. Interesting. Live next to Gazza do we? heard some pre-production stuff? Perhaps Gemma singing in the shower? This statement is totally unjustified. Even if you do not like Exile (and I admit that I don't), how do you know that Gary will not realise the error of his ways and revert to the "cutting edge" as he did in '79? (As you readily acknowledge) >He hasn't go a clue where he's going or what he's doing, >That's why Eagle don't want another album off him. Again, unless you know Gary, who are you to know what he thinks? As for Eagle, they've got what they wanted; the back-catalogue. I am sure that the rest of the digest will agree that it is Eagle who haven't got a clue. >The production on Exile was appalling and in a technological age >he hasn't got a clue how to use his equipment properly... Now, I'm no musician (as I have already admitted), but to make such a statement demands the question "Who are you to state this?". I have found that most critics, especially those who specialise in the negative, are those least qualified to critique the work of others. I do, however, agree with your views on production. Both Sacrifice and Exile have suffered from this and Gary would be wise to seek some help in this department. I can also be said, that the work of lesser artists was only successful because of the skills of the "man at the desk", rather than the talent of the artist. >Gary Numan never made a comeback because his last singles >and albums never got anywhere. Interestingly enough, and I think the rest of the digest will agree, Gary is not making a comeback, he has never gone away. Unlike most '80s acts, Gary's output has been fairly continuous, even if not particularly well publicised in the mainstream. This is not Gary's fault, rather a sad reflection on the state of a fickle and sad (but that's another story) music industry. >Has anyone compared Numan to the latest ground-breaking electronic acts such as ... Yes, and there are actually few "ground-breaking" acts. Most simply combine elements of prior musical styles and influences. There has been little new ground broken, musically, since the early '80s. Popularity has more to do with marketing than talent these days. If you want more of my opinions on this, please feel free to ask. >he is like a 5 year old with a Casio compared to them. You are entitled to your opinion, but have you heard some of the modern Casio's? >He really should just give up gracefully but because he is so greedy for >money and success he will just embarrass himself until his 50. If you knew anything about Gary, you would know that he is not greedy. In fact, he is one of few in the industry who was willing to make a loss in order to tour. >Most 80's artists have given up, not attempted to hang on by their fingertips, >only the truly talented have continued, like David Sylvian for example. Interesting then that, there are currently "comebacks" by the likes of Howard Jones, Nik Kershaw, Mark King (of level 42). These artists, and others, have never truly gone away. Let's face it, in any period, there is a core of artists that define the period and lot's of "one hit hangers on". It is this core who are the truly talented, and I consider Gary to be at the core of the '80's. I am also a David Sylvian fan and admit (obviously) that, yes, he is talented. But David Sylvian, like Gary, owes his continued popularity to the music and image when he first started out. I don't recall Mr Sylvian charting recently, and for that matter do not think that he has progressed much in the last 10 years, or indeed shown much innovation. >Lets face it, apart from the odd track, Gary was only ever good between >1979 and 1981, then after the farewell concerts he should have quit for good. Most of us on the Digest have our favourite periods, yours is obviously 79-81. I accept that not everyone likes all of Gary's music. I certainly don't. My favourite albums are from '79 to the mid '80s with a couple of exceptions. Sacrifice and Exile took me a little while to accept and are not my favourites. They took me a little too far away from my musical "comfort zone". But I recognise that like Gary, I too can grow musically and have the faith that Gary can, and will, do better in the future. >He would be a legend. Gary IS a legend. His influence has been recognised by many artists, both past and current. Fear Factory are currently experiencing widespread fame because of Gary. >But no, he had to ruin it by producing appalling albums ... Everyone makes mistakes. Even Gary recognises M&S as one of his weakest albums. >He writes exile and says its his best ever album Even Gary is entitled to his opinion. >what crap. You also. > In 1979 Replicas was cutting edge, ahead of its time, awesome. Finally, something constructive. >I don't expect a single one of you on this digest to agree with what I've >written because your all braindead. This is what got to me. I have never met you Danny and am sure that you have not seen my medical records. I also doubt that you are medically qualified to make such a diagnosis of a group of people who you have never met. I must see my doctor, I hadn't realised that I was ill. Remember: The mind works best when it is open. Someone must have welded yours shut Danny boy. >Living on past glorys, you've failed to move with the times, >refused to widen your listening experience and take in >different forms of music. You are making the assumption that all we listen to is Gary Numan. I cannot vouch for everybody, but I can state that my musical tastes have broadened considerably since my youth in the 80s. I own more than 500 CDs and Gary has only produced 20 odd albums, that leaves at least 480. I have *never* liked Status Quo or Gary Glitter. >You'll stick by Numan until the bitter end, >but in your heart you know he's crap. When I tire of Gary I will stop buying his albums. Any artist that I like, or have liked, is a talented individual who has, or had, something to say to me as a person through their music. If I stop enjoying what they have to say, or how they say it, then I am mature enough to recognise that either they or I have changed and my money is best spent elsewhere. >He's so embedded in your lives that if he left you would be unable to cope, your divorced from reality. I don't know your age or background, but yes, Gary had a huge influence on me in my mid teen years and therefore is embedded in a very formative period of my life. BUT, I could live without Gary's music. There are other things that are more important in my life. If music is the only thing that is important, then it is you who is divorced from reality. >Your trapped inside your stale minds. Get out! I wondered what that smell was. As for "Get out", I think that you have done very well in getting out of your mind. >There's so much brilliant music out there, >music you would enjoy if you weren't so biased and introspective. I listen to an awful lot of brilliant music. What I don't hear often is brilliant discussion. >Get a life!! Got one. Like it. Wager, it's better than yours. >Looking forward to the childish, abusive backlash that is no doubt coming my way. I started this response with the best of intentions. I was not going to lower myself to the level of the original post. Reading back, I realise that, in parts, I have. NYAH, NYAH!!!!!!! >They will simply justify my comments to the hilt. This is where your reasoning is flawed. Just because you get replies to a [provocative|emotional|abusive] message, does not justify it's content. Thankyou for the opportunity to contribute to this discussion Danny. I look forward to your future reasoned and informed input. OK. That concludes my response to one "Danny T". The questions that it raised and which I open up for discussion are: 1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album? 2) Are Eagle capable of recognizing a good album and promoting it effectively? 3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? Darren Hall. halldj at ihug dot co dot nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:18:33 -0400 From: Seldon Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #545 To: Gary Numan How dare you, sir, claim to judge for all what you feel to be correct? How can you attempt in any manner to explain Numan's appeal to the masses? I happen to enjoy much of Gary's later output as well as his more dated material and it galls me to no end that you make the generalization that he should have stopped making music after one or two successful albums. Did Picasso stop painting? Does Ford stop making autos? Does Bruce Willis stop acting after the mainstream critical press says his last movie was a bomb? It is mankind's inherent desire to create, and there exists among us many who do. Artists like Gary Numan create sounds that appeal to those who cannot create the same sounds. To call any artist "finished" is to not only degrade the artist, but the artistic patrician, the person who supports the artistic output. Exile is not an album for everyone. My spouse has not an iota of liking for it, and she is a vehement Numan fan. I find it sometimes grating, and long for the more melodic and touching music that drew me to Gary in the first place. That said, though, I would never, ever, attempt to state as fact that Numan should quit, go cold turkey, hang it up. As an artist, he would find stopping as destructive as suicide. He must create. He must be heard. He has the right, as an artist, to perform how he sees fit, and if his fans do not like it, they vote with their pocketbooks. There are bands and artists out there that I will buy regardless of what their previous album did on the charts, or how positive or negative my particular impression of their previous work was. Joe Jackson, David Byrne, Danny Elfman, all examples of the maturation process that takes place in musicians, allow us to experience something other than the same old mundane rehash of the same top 40 generic music that plagues the radio airwaves. I thank God for the artist unafraid to break from the norm for the sake of their expression. They risk their financial and reputable futures by doing so. Moreover, they impress us with their willingness to break from the mold, and attempt to enamor us with their bravery for doing something different. They enable us to expand OUR horizons at the same time they are unfolding their creative wings and learning to fly. Change is often difficult to accept. Yet we must change. It is the natural progression of humanity. We must embrace and nurture it, or be doomed to the mundane and the stifling application of the repetitive. Thank you for your time. > Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:38:47 GMT > From: Danny T > Subject: Finished! > To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > > Gary Numan's next album will be drivel. He hasn't go a clue where he's going > or what he's doing, that's why Eagle don't want another album off him. The > > blah blah blah... > > backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my > comments to the hilt. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:17:18 -0600 From: Pat Weber Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #545 To: Gary Numan > > Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:38:47 GMT > From: Danny T > Subject: Finished! > To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > > Gary Numan's next album will be drivel. He hasn't go a clue where he's going > or what he's doing, that's why Eagle don't want another album off him. The > production on Exile was appalling and in a technological age he hasn't got a > clue how to use his equipment properly. He never programs his synths or > experiments with sounds, and he lifts all of his drum loops from the same > Sample CD's that everybody else is using (apart from the big acts who know > better). Gary Numan never made a comeback because his last singles and > albums never got anywhere. . . . > > I don't expect a single one of you on this digest to agree with what I've > written because your all braindead. Living on past glorys, you've failed to > move with the times, refused to widen your listening experience and take in > different forms of music. Your just like a bunch of Status Quo or Gary > Glitter fans, sad and sneered at. You'll stick by Numan until the bitter > end, but in your heart you know he's crap. He's so embedded in your lives > that if he left you would be unable to cope, your divorced from reality. > Your trapped inside your stale minds. Get out! There's so much brilliant > music out there, music you would enjoy if you weren't so biased and > introspective. Get a life!! Looking forward to the childish, abusive > backlash that is no doubt coming my way. They will simply justify my > comments to the hilt. de-lurking momentarily . . . hmmmm... Only one question, since you're certainly entitled to your opinion: Why are you on this list? Oh. Never mind. I see. . . . back to lurking . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:50:20 EDT From: PeterPanda@aol.com Subject: Jeez! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Jeez, David Sylvian will do anything to sell even one of his records. Me! I Disconnect From You ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:12:51 -0700 From: Ross Brown Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: AUTO-WHAT?? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey all, Sorry for this silliness. I fear it shows my lack of life and my having been consumed/ subsumed by my job. In digest #545 my computer kicked back an AutoReply in my absence due to the less-and-less glamorous travel I am required to endure. Sorry for letting robots answer my mail for me. Wonder what Gary would think of it all. ---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x---x--- Ross Bennett Brown mailto:ross.brown@barra.com USA Gary Numan Digest Thu, 10 Jun 99 Volume 1 : Issue 545 Today's Topics: Outland Samples Out of Office AutoReply: Gary Numan Digest V1 #544 Paul Gardiner and 'Night Talk' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:24:25 GMT From: "Reverend Kristina K.Panos" Subject: Posting in error To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello fellow Numanoids! In case any of you caught my message in the last digest about Tubeway shirts, I meant to quote what Ade had said about being able to print some up, but the carrots that indicate quoted text were missing. I apologize for leading anyone to believe that I was the one making the Tubeway shirts, although I really would like one! Kristina http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thenumanunderground _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:49:57 +0000 From: "Danny Cushion" Subject: re..dan/finished! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu What the hell are you on abuot Dan? "finished"..Eagle HAS signed Gary to another Album..AND..i've met a few guys from the lable and by all accounts they are well happy!!...As for no-one at the digest agreeing with you....give some of the fans a bit of credit..!!! Dan(a happy Numan fan) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:06:48 -0700 From: "Anthony James" Subject: re finished To: "Numan Digest" Blimey !!!!!! Tony J ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:18:56 +0100 From: "Stephen Catton" Subject: reply to Danny T To: In reply to Danny T. You have your opinion. I think that you will find that a lot of people = actually like his latest CD. I know I do. He has a fairly unique sound = that I have not heard anywhere else. As to compare him to the band that you mentioned. What is the point. He = is just different to them. Some will say he is better some will say he = is not as good. Most people who read this digest will say that he is = better. Your statements show that it is you who are trapped inside your head in = assuming that we have no other musical interest than Numan. Sad really = that you have to write such a ridiculous entry. Open your mind to the possibility that it is you who is being sneered = at. Your letter was both offensive and an illustration as to the kind of = mind you have, an arrogant and narrow one ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 19:06:52 -0800 From: errora@earthlink.net Subject: Sylvian, Numan and everything To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I agree with the guy, uh...Danny T, who wrote about Sylvian being way better now than he was in the early '80s. But Sylvian was great then, too. Now, he's far better and nothing like his Japan persona. His new record KILLS. But, I'm a huge SCOTT WALKER fan. For the record: Nine Inch Nails and Prodigy suck a dead dogs dick, Danny T. But I like the spirit in which you mentioned them! Uh...what else? Oh yeah, that was an exciting letter! I agree my favorite pop star of all time, Gary Numan, should do something better with his overall SOUND and BEATS but his melodies are still supurb. I'm afraid I don't like his getting divorced from being a Catholic thing (I'm hoping it's not a Goth--gasp!--help!--thing). I'll just assume that he's gone Goth-by-default and doesn't REALLY take Marilyn Manson all that seriously. I too had hoped that he'd have been a bit more graceful as he aged, like goddamned Sylvian had done. But, what the hell? What can you do? I'll still stand by Numan because of what he DID for me while I was growing up, especially with Pleasure Principle. That is STILL AHEAD OF ITS TIME, Danny T. I don't care what you say, there's nothing that matches it. Nothing. I think that Cassius is great, St. Etienne and AIR are great, too. I bet Numan fans would like those acts. My Bloody Valentine is a must listen for everyone. Though that's eight years old by now. Numanoids are often a kind insular, odd bunch. Maybe that's their strength. Maybe this will all lead to something. Danny T, your letter made me think about Numanoids a lot. But, I think you're too harsh on Gary Numan himself. I still listen because of his melodic sense and his voice. Unbeatable. Sorry, dude. It's the best. B.E.S.T. Mind you, I USED to listen because of his lyrics as well, his Sci-Fi slant, until he went kinda Goth (?) as of late. E-gads. Save us from Goth lyrics. That was a great letter. Got my blood pumping. Kind of Johnny Rotten-ish. --ALEC WAY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:38:51 +0000 From: Steve Lilly Subject: Talk about get a life! To: Gary Numan > > > Gary Numan's next album... Not TOO much flame here, it'd be just too easy. This is from the "if you don't like Ozzy you suck!" mentality, so any insults thrown my way from that direction I certainly take as compliments. Like all my favorite alltime artists (Marc Bolan, Adam Ant, Golden Earring, Joan Jett), when Gary's good he's transcendent, and when he's bad he sucks. Also like those other artists, fortunately, I love his work more often than not. As long as there's a chestnut like "Dead Heaven" in the mix I'll buy it. Thanks for telling me what to think, guy, but I already have a mother. I don't obey her, either. Steve in Florida p.s. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire slag was just a bogus post sent to stir things up. I certainly can't imagine someone with so little a life that they actually join a mailing list just to slag the subject. Nine inch numb? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:38:29 +0100 From: "Simon Bone" Subject: Zum-Zum's To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 08:37:30 -0700 > From: Pythoness > Subject: Zom-Zom's > To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > > Interesting to note that a friend of mine has some piece of merchandise (I > sincerely don't remember what) from an eatery in NY called *Zum-Zum's*. > Funny old world. I remember this -- it was in the Empire State Building (in 1980, at least). I have no idea whether it's still there. Simon Bone http://www.ourfounder.com/bone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:42:17 +0400 From: "Peter Enright" Subject: Zumthing in the air ... To: "Digest Numan" Noomunoidz, Behold! There is a pub/restaurant in Tartu, Estonia called ZUM-ZUM - which is apparently the sound that Estonian bees make ... go figure. Had a few beers there last year ... See y'all at the Bull & Bush for a few ... TikTokMan Moscow ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** _______________________________________________________________________ _____ ____ ____ _____ _____ / \ | | / \ / \ / \ / \ | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | G | | A | | | R | | Y | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | N | E | W | S |=====| | | | | | | | & | | | | | | | \_____/ I | N | F | O | | | | is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: numan@cs.uwp.edu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu ----------------- The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Datta Production and Development, 905 97th Street, Kenosha, WI 53143 USA datta@cs.uwp.edu and computer resources courtesy of University of Wisconsin-Parkside and Datta Production and Development. 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