Gary Numan Digest Thu, 17 Jun 99 Volume 1 : Issue 547 Today's Topics: 12.06.1999 - The Forum (2 msgs) A wasted digest #546 Concert at the Forum Danny Danny T's remarks dan T (2 msgs) Darren Hall's issue-raising rejoinder Disappointed First-time post and Danny T's remarks. Forum gig Forum Parking - Tony's response Gary Numan concert at the FORUM Intro. Is Gary Finished? / The best is yet to come one of the "stale minds"... Questions And Answers reintroduction Silver Disc STOP IT WASN'T ME!!!!!! The Flip Side of Danny T's remarks The Forum.....wow! The Forum / + Wasted digest. The Forum Parking There are some japaneses such as Danny T! This message isn't directed to Danny T, rather it's about... TO: Darren Hall's Questions X-mas card & Trolls Zom zom's ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:29:09 +0100 From: luc.de_visscher@ch.Novartis.com Subject: 12.06.1999 - The Forum To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi there, Thought I'd spent a few minutes to talk about the Forum Gig of last week-end instead of having to go through al the mail of 'Dan's fanclub'. Well, for the 15th time I travelled from Brussels to London to see our pal Numan live. Good points I noted are: - Tracks - The Sleeproom (* I come back to that later) - Deadliner - My shadow in vain - Gary Rocks!!! But... It was the very first time I was a bit disappointed after a Numan gig. And this is why: - The sound was a disaster. A complete failure. I can not believe how a professional like Gary, with 20 years on stage experience can accept this. I'd say, put is not as loud, but have the balance right. Man, it really hurt my ears. Am I getting old? Overall, I thought it was to loud (only a fraction) *"I know that I don't sound like I should" - Furthermore, this was the first concert where I thought that songs were pretty similar. It starts with a chaos of multiple synthesiser sounds, then there's a calm start, and suddenly, all music comes very hard (tracks, dark, friends, metal,...) Then again, since the Exile tour in 1997, this is the 6the concert I see with virtually the same songs. And one asked the question, should Gary have his records produced by someone else than himself, I have to say yes. I'm looking forward to Gary's next album, and I feel he is heading in the right direction, but I do not want to hear another loop from Sacrifice/Exile. Hope the sound balance will be right for the festival in August over here... Greetings from Belgium, Luc THE NUMAN FACTOR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:23:53 -0400 From: Cary Wiltz Subject: To: NUMAN@cs.uwp.edu I forgot to p.p.s. you all to make sure you do not fret over Danny as he is a Nine Inch Nail Fan with a 1 inch dick! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:53:20 GMT From: D * Subject: To: numan-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi everyone, I realise that I am NOT flavour of the weak at the moment and I cannot possibly answer all your insults in one go, but I’ll try. First of all, the reason for my rant. Two things really, when I saw people arguing about font sizes on Gary’s CD covers I really did think it was time to kick a few backsides. Secondly, and more importantly, has anyone read Gary Numan’s comments on his own NuWorld site regarding the use of sound clips on their web pages and how he will disown you if you don’t remove them. Now that is the behaviour of a tosser. The people that write these web-sites have usually followed him from day one. They have spent hours working on a web-site devoted to this man. In order to inform other fans, promote his music and generally help his ailing career. And he’s getting heavy because he’s worried a few tight-wads are gonna sit there listening to his album on the internet rather than buy it. That’s desperate! I used to be a massive Numan fan, but I first got suspicious of how much he ‘loved’ the fans when he defended the release of ‘No More Lies’ in 10 different formats. It wasn’t long of course before he sold his entire back catalogue for a wad of cash and then professed his innocence and annoyance that those he sold them to were releasing compilation after compilation and ripping us off. Well what did he think they were going to do, lock them in a dark cupboard for 5 years and give them back. Of course the Techno Army thing didn’t help, boasting how he got paid thousands of pounds for singing appallingly over a collection of equally appalling remixes. Just another compilation to add to the others he already hypocritically slagged off. Yet you all continue to lap him up, have you no principles? Is it not bad enough that he makes such a pitiful effort with his music anymore? I mean Sacrifice wasn’t an album, it was a fucking Demo! Don’t you think you deserve more than that? I have had many replies over the past week or so, some even agreeing with me would you believe. And I apologise for labelling you ALL braindead. Some of the more intelligent contributors lead me to believe that perhaps only 80% of you are braindead,. Well done. Believe me, there is nothing I would like more than to see Gary Numan come back with an album as good as anything he did up to and including Dance, dream on. I just hope he gives up gracefully once and for all after his next miserable album fails. Ok most of you are too blind to see that he will NEVER be anywhere near as good as he once was, just trying to open a few eyes, the response was electric. Danny T ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:19:50 -0400 From: Cary Wiltz Subject: A wasted digest #546 To: NUMAN@cs.uwp.edu I must tell you all that I am a bit disappointed in some of you. Danny T of digest #545 got exactly what he was fishing for: RESPONSES! He would have been blown out of the water if no one said anything about his remarks. C'mon, guys and gals, where are your Numan "shields"? He does not need defending! Cary p.s. I did, however, like PeterPanda's clever remark about Danny's advertisement for Sylvian...quite funny. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:52:04 +0100 From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk Subject: Concert at the Forum To: Gary Numan Dear All, I don't care whether other people liked/didn't like the venue, the beer, the tickets, the set list, the lights, the sound system, Steve Harris's trousers, Gary's make-up, etc. I ENJOYED the concert. Wow! I must be brain-dead, according to Danny T. No, Danny, I decided years ago that this is my life, and I will enjoy it. Having said all that, I have a strained ankle at the moment, which meant I had to dance on one foot. It also made it difficult to cope with the odd people around me. I understand what the Americans were saying about Numa-Nazis. A couple of drunks leaned on everybody until they forced their way in front of me. A fellow who was high on something stood there, well, he sort of stood, with his eyes closed until about two-thirds of the way through, in a trance, and kept falling on people.... But you want to know what Gary Numan did, don't you? The support band was Mesh. I liked them, I thought that their music was more to my taste than any of the other support bands I have seen. Industrial, I would call it. (Someone will tell me I'm wrong.) Reminded me of Nine Inch Nails, occasionally of Depeche Mode, and they have a lot of solid bass sounds, which type of music was first pioneered by Gary. Gary's set list: Some sort of Intro - didn't recognise it Films - powerful stuff Absolution - couldn't concentrate due to crowd trouble Dominion Day Friends - new version Deadliner Alien Cure Are "Friends" Electric? The Sleeproom - just brilliant Down In The Park Everyday Day I Die Dark - what happened to this one? Where was the melody? Prophecy - and this. Gary was doing something to these 2 Metal Angel Wars Dead Heaven Cars I Die You Die - the crowd was wild down where I was My Shadow In Vain Tracks Jo The Waiter - without acoustic guitar If you want a description of the crowd in general, well, it was a sellout. I would hazard an opinion that black was the preferred colour. A fair sprinkling of gothic outfits, in with the Numan T-shirts. And could that have been Numanboy in front of me? ("Oh my God! He's doing this one as well!") Noting down the set list, and recognising the songs from the first notes? In behind the Numa Nazis. THrilled to hear the line "I Am An American", and responding with delight to "JTW held me close, behind the door marked Gentlemen"........ A great night. And then we went back to find that our car had been clamped. I won't bore you with all the details, but quite a few fans had been led to believe that it was all right to park in Regis Road....... I might email more later, if I think of things to say. Paddy Vickers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:26:34 GMT From: devon tillson Subject: Danny To: numan-request@cs.uwp.edu Hi Numanoids, Why don't you give this guy Danny a break, lets face it apart from the end bit where he does get a bit personal everything he said is actually true. Numan is crap compared to what he used to be, and Exile and Sacrifice are almost a decade behind what everybody else has been doing in the electronic genre. And by writing pages of literature saying how he should get a life you are simply contradicting yourselves and proving he was right all along. In fact the whole manner of everybodys abuse proves he was right all along. Why don't you just ignore the guy? Devon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:42:44 +0100 From: "Tony James" Subject: dan T To: "Numan Digest" Fellow Numanoids... Blimey Danny T's message responses certainly padded out the digest quite nicely = ! There has not been such a commotion since the Homowotsit debate ! Oh well here I go.=20 In certain respects I AGREE with the some of the Danny T's comments. I can't see where Numan's next album is going....If he has "written 15 = new songs and he don't like non of them" (Gary's own admission) there = is not much hope. So you can expect the new album in 2006. Yep I agree...the drum loops on both Exile and Sacrifice and repetitive. = But yes they are powerful and a main part of the Numan sound and I'm not = a musician so I don't know if an album is well produced or not. and to see Numan on the stage at 50...well it don't bear thinking about. = Just look at The Stones.... In Numan's favour I'm so glad he has not tried to hang on to the '79/'80 = era. At least he has tried to move on (musically) each and every year. I listen to Numan and only Numan, but this is my choice...I been to over = 60 Gigs in the last 20 years and I only buy things Numan or related. I = think I qualify as a Numanoid. As for the brain dead bit. well what can I say. I can't ever see Numan getting in the charts again. (if Numan decides to = put out a single again) I can't ever see him on TOTP again.=20 All I can see is the irregular appearances on music/chat shows.=20 This is not Numan's fault. Times change. No Numan single will ever be = played on a radio play list again. Not that it's a crap song or = what-ever. It's just that Numan's style isn't main stream any more. = Think about it.When was the last time you heard a current Numan single = played on the radio ?=20 (and I'm not talking about The USA I mean in GB) The last time I heard a current Numan single played on the radio was "I = Can't Stop" ..and the DJ apologised for playing it. I revel in living in past era's I still watch Micro-Music and remember = being there. I watch the Principle video and remember that as well. I = love the early Numan years both musically and visually. I love the Dance = years. I love Warriors, Beserker et al. I definetly don't love EVERY = single song he has done. I go to Numan gigs cos I love the music of Gary = Numan..and also to get a break from real life !! these are my thoughts and my flame suit is on and I don't care Tony J Everybody's Infected...'cept me ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:06:36 +0100 From: "Tony James" Subject: Dan T To: "Numan Digest" Fellow Numanoids... Blimey Danny T's message responses certainly padded out the digest quite nicely ! There has not been such a commotion since the Homowotsit debate ! Oh well here I go. In certain respects I AGREE with the some of the Danny T's comments. I can't see where Numan's next album is going....If he has "written 15 new songs and he don't like non of them" (Gary's own admission) there is not much hope. So you can expect the new album in 2006. Yep I agree...the drum loops on both Exile and Sacrifice and repetitive. But yes they are powerful and a main part of the Numan sound and I'm not a musician so I don't know if an album is well produced or not. and to see Numan on the stage at 50...well it don't bear thinking about. Just look at The Stones.... In Numan's favour I'm so glad he has not tried to hang on to the '79/'80 era. At least he has tried to move on (musically) each and every year. I listen to Numan and only Numan, but this is my choice...I been to over 60 Gigs in the last 20 years and I only buy things Numan or related. I think I qualify as a Numanoid. As for the brain dead bit. well what can I say. I can't ever see Numan getting in the charts again. (if Numan decides to put out a single again) I can't ever see him on TOTP again. All I can see is the irregular appearances on music/chat shows. This is not Numan's fault. Times change. No Numan single will ever be played on a radio play list again. Not that it's a crap song or what-ever. It's just that Numan's style isn't main stream any more. Think about it.When was the last time you heard a current Numan single played on the radio ? (and I'm not talking about The USA I mean in GB) The last time I heard a current Numan single played on the radio was "I Can't Stop" ..and the DJ apologised for playing it. I revel in living in past era's I still watch Micro-Music and remember being there. I watch the Principle video and remember that as well. I love the early Numan years both musically and visually. I love the Dance years. I love Warriors, Beserker et al. I definetly don't love EVERY single song he has done. I go to Numan gigs cos I love the music of Gary Numan..and also to get a break from real life !! these are my thoughts and my flame suit is on and I don't care Tony J Everybody's Infected...'cept me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:31:16 -0800 From: errora@earthlink.net Subject: Darren Hall's issue-raising rejoinder To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Sure liked the Darren Hall letter. I wanted to address the things he opened for discussion. 1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album? Like Brian Wilson sang a long time ago, "Wouldn't It Be Nice?" But, having said that, I admire GN's control freak thing even if the results aren't to MY absolute liking. It would be my dream that he team up with Brian Eno for just one record just "to see what happens." 2) Are Eagle capable of recognizing a good album and promoting it effectively? Maybe but, for some reason, I don't think so. It was such a "should've" thing in the past few years. Came damn close. 3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? This is kind of fun for me because I go through these listening cycles and have done my whole life. For those who care to know:- For a while I listened to nothing but Numan. I realise, though, that throughout my life, I've had similar obsessions including; John Foxx, David Sylvian, Eno, Bryan Ferry, ethnographic field recordings, The Residents, Fred Frith, Slapp Happy, Dagmar Krause, Moebiue and Roedelius, My Bloody Valentine, Can, Dame Darcy, The Beatles, St. Etienne, Indian Classical, etc., etc. So, the tendency is there for the exclusivity factor. Right now, I'm listening to Ennio Morricone and The Breeders a lot. Hey, was Gary really dropped from Eagle? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:21:22 -0500 From: tlwalter Subject: Disappointed To: The Gary Numan Digest Just wanted to say that I'm a bit disappointed... It took input from an outsider to get the content of the Digest to increase to an outrageous file size, simply by slagging Gary and his music. And, of course, as we have all done time and time again (and will surely continue to), defense of Gary and his music was inspired. If Gary himself were to rebut each and every slagging, he'd get nothing else done. As I see it, these things are better left completely ignored. People like this "Danny T" are more like terrorists than critics. They are only satisfied, and only effective, when they get the attention they are after. By simply ignoring them - COMPLETELY - they simply whither away and disappear. As far as I'm concerned, Gary Numan does not need to be defended -- not for his music, nor for any aspect of his person or life. What Gary does, speaks for itself. I get it, the majority on this digest get it, but the majority of the global population do not get it. I don't think that is such a bad thing. Hope I didn't get any on you... (continuing to ignore...) -- Troy L. Walters Indiana, USA tlwalter@tctc.com http://www.tctc.com/~tlwalter Heading straight for the Numan-llennium -- Beware of the IDGAF Syndrome... (c) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:04:52 -0500 From: "Schmitt, Mark" Subject: First-time post and Danny T's remarks. To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Hello, My name is Mark Schmitt and I've been on this list for about a year or so without ever posting. I was trying to kind of get a feel for the way this ran, so I held off on many an era that came and went (i.e.: "homosexuality and gary's lyrics", "Exile vs. Exile extended", and the ongoing Rod Reynolds praising and trashing). So, here I am... I'm posting for the very first time in response to what is essentially a trivial eruption from some fed up shithead. Here it goes... short and sweet: 1. I've been into Gary for about 5 years, but I have always been familiar with his work (I'm 26). 2. My favorite Gary album(s) are 'Telekon' and 'Pleasure Principle'. 3. Favorite Gary song: 'Face to Face' 4. Favorite Gary era(s): 'Tubeway Army' up through 'Berserker'. 5. Position on the "Numa" years: Well, this is tricky. I really hate cliche female backup singers and large amounts of brass (synth and otherwise), so large portions of the Numa years really really turned me off. However, Upon hearing 'Sacrifice' I shifted my opinion a bit due to the realization that Gary had made a nice move with that album in particular. 'Exile' kind of left me flat, but I will concede that Gary's live versions of the album tracks are a bit more appetizing. 6. My position on fandom/collecting: Having been in numerous bands and having recorded material, fandom came into a more clear perspective than it ever has before: it is wonderful. There's nothing like a good obsession. Gary doesn't begin nor end my day, I listen to a seemingly a million other things (Miranda Sex Garden, Rasputina, Tori Amos, Big Black, Rapeman, Lydia Lunch... the list goes on), but fandom most certainly defines a small part of my being. I can actually say that I LIKE something in a world full of so much fucking shit. -Mark Schmitt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:11:06 +0200 From: "Ingo Weinard" Subject: Forum gig To: "Gary Numan" Hello all of you. So there was the night again. I was there with friends aged 16, 21, 29 + me 36! My friends said -ups -he sounds and looks like the sisters of mercy- ohoh-.That's that fucking gothic thing! They and me wanted to see the GARY NUMAN 2000 ALIEN TYPE!!!! Where where the unique Numan Machine Sound? That was a gothic rock concert with a lightshow from the early 70's. It was a shame! So there are 2 concerts in a year and he gives us a light show from a village band in a townhall. And the magic of the songs is away-because there are no more spooky synths-and did you know that the intro, wich was playing came from the Dark City Soundtrack and was not written by him? It is the song nr.6! -oh oh oh- Has Gary no ideas anymore???? I can not understand he doesn't takes his chance. The whole musicworld is observing him what he is doing next. All he is doing now is, he comes as a ghotic rockstar with a cheep lightshow and no typical unique Numan sound! If he doesn't do it in the next year and comes back as a Zeitgeist Space Rockstar it is over- and he never can come back! I do not wanna loose my hero!!!!! Gary give us your machine music back and be our alien again because you are still the one! I am very sad...............Ingo...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:08:11 +0100 From: Matthew Tamea Subject: Forum Parking - Tony's response To: Numannews I mailed Tony Webb to let him know about the parking trouble at the forum on saturday night - here's his response - hopefully this won't happen again... ------ > Hello Matthew, > > Sorry to hear that you got caught up in this, I was in the managers office > when someone came in to report what was happening. I can assure you that > they were very upset and angry about this as they have had a long standing > arrangement about the use of that car park. > > I will try to track down the names that you have given me and help to get > this sorted out. > > Thanks again, > > Cheers, > > Tony Webb. > --------- Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:00:55 EDT From: Jehippo@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan concert at the FORUM To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Anastasios Mistos June 14'99. Montreal Quebec Hi everyone It's been a while since I last wrote in the digest , I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying there summer.. Well I REALLY ENJOYED THE CONCERT! I enjoyed the opening act which was Mesh, and then came the Man. Started off with films, absolution, friends,etc...... Another memorable night to remeber Thanks Gary for a great evening!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: jordanpease@webtv.net (Jordan Pease) Subject: Intro. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello ! My name is Jordan Pease. I'm a SWM 31 years old, a Gary Numan fan since age 13 when I saw him perform on Saturday Night live. I have practically all the recorded material available, some really old bootleg concert tapes, a few t-shirts and 4 or 5 picture discs. I play drums and guitar and do many original recording projects (16 track HD !), and have done some successful covers of Down in the Park, Cars, and Are friends Electric. I really Love the FIRST tribute album (Random I). The second one sucks. When I was able to actually ask Gary in person (after the SF show last year) about how to submit songs for future compilations, he acted as if he hardly knew about the CD. Seemed a bit odd. Anyway, I'd love to chat with other Numan fans (if there are any) and possibly collaborate with other musicians. Let's all prey that Gary will continue to tour/record !! Hopefully even return to his early writing style ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:43:50 PDT From: Mark Darmofal Subject: Is Gary Finished? / The best is yet to come To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Danny T appeared hostile to Gary's latest work yet praised the 1979 to 1981 albums. He praised Replicas as "cutting edge," yet if you heard Gary circa-1985 he himself soundedembarrassed by it in terms of production value. Gary's albums tend to come in cycles of three, with the first wave being Replicas to Telekon. According from what Danny wrote, this was the best period of Gary's career and he should have packed it in. Everyone here can agree these three albums were and are excellent to this day. The next wave was from Dance to Warriors. Dance was a radical change from Telekon. Gary could've followed in the vein of Telekon but attempted something different. He enlisted the help of musicians like Roger Taylor and Mick Karn. The result was songs like She's Got Claws, Stories, Cry the Clock Said, Crash, and Slowcar to China. My understanding was the album was released after the Farewell Concerts. I don't see how Dance hurts his legend status. I, Assassin continued the elements of Dance while returning to his earlier albums. Again Gary had quality assistance from Pino Palladino and Chris Slade. The album produced a Top 10 single (WTMtB) as well as Music for Chameleons, War Songs, and possibly his greatest B-side, Noise Noise, which Gary performed on his last US tour, to everyone's delight. Warriors was the last of this wave, and his last with Beggars Banquet. This time Gary enlisted Bill Nelson and Dick Morrissey (sp?), with Nelson (as I understand) doing some of the producing and female vocals added in. The album has track like Warriors, This Prison Moon, Sister Surprise (I like the single version better), Rhythm of the Evening. Critics have called this album "laughable," but they judged it by the cover. Arguably the weakest of the three, the tracks alone to me justify the album, proving that Gary has more than the "odd track" left in him. The next wave is from Berserker to Strange Charm. Danny's comment about the odd track to me means he hasn't listened to Berserker and The Fury as every track on those albums (to me) is at least of decent quality with most ranking up there with his early works on the music side, and all the B-sides are excellent. Lyrically for me these albums are (as a whole) lacking compared to the sci-fi feel of Replicas, that is a matter of taste. Take tracks like God Only Knows, Child with the Ghost, I Still Remember, The Secret, and his song writing is just as strong but more mature than Replicas. Strange Charm was the weakest album for me because it only had eight tracks, The Need was seven (7) minutes long, and Time to Die. But I'll take My Breathing against any of his old numbers from Replicas and TPP. Add in the title track, This is Love, and take out the intro vocals from I Can't Stop, and while it may not be a classic, but nowhere near the "crap" that's been suggested. The next wave was from Metal Rhythm through Machine and Soul. America alone is enough to justify Metal Rhythm; it is a prime example of an excellent pop song not given its proper place at Number One in the charts. Outland did not sound like a Gary Numan, and it appears as if IRS had a say in the final output. However, when compared to what was put out in 1991, again, a respectable effort. I am in a minority of people in the Digest who really like Outland, and I consider Heart to be a top single of his. Machine and Soul was the one album Danny took the piss out of. A fan told Gary he had every album but Machine and Soul and Gary said "Don't bother." However, I don't see how I Wonder can be characterized as crap and all my anti-Gary friends love his version of U Got the Look, and most of them like Prince's version. HOWEVER, Machine and Soul is important as it set the stage for this current wave which I predict will lead to this next album being the greatest of his career, critics be damned, and here's why. 1992 was, arguably, Gary's low point. But with 1993 he had the Dream Corrosion tour. Look at the choice of songs: Shame, I Don't Believe, Jo the Waiter, Noise Noise, That's Too Bad, Bombers, etc. You've seen the video, Gary's truly having fun out there, especially with hsi joke about packing it in. 1994 gave us Sacrifice, and say what you want about the production value, the songwriting is just as good as Replicas. The album is an about face from M+S. He then writes Absolution about Gemma. Men make think the song is a pile of poo, but I havent had one girlfriend in the years past that hasn't fallen in love with the song, especially when you say who Gary wrote it for. 1998 saw Exile and the US tour. Exile is lyrically better than Sacrifice, with the Heaven/Hell God/Devil motif. Like Sacrifice, the album carries a mood from start to finish. The US Tour, from those who were there, speaks for itself. From what I saw from only two shows, Gary appeared extremely happy. The audience was extremely happy. And for some of the shows he did a kick-ass (lack of a better adjective) version of Replicas. Now there is the Fear Factory single, on its way to being a smash, with a video that looks top notch. Gary is on MTV and VH-1, in Rolling Stone and SPIN. His early works are released on CD in the US for the first time. My point is when have we seen such since a constant positive output towards Gary Numan's career? Gary himself is surprised that people like Snoop Doggy Dogg is giving him a nod. Gary has a brand-new studio now. The time is perfect for this new album. With Sacrifice and Exile being lyrical masterpieces (perhaps an overstatement), and fantastic mood-setters, this new album will be the best of his career. Because Gary for the last two (2) albums has been doing music the way he wants and the way he sees it should be, which is what Replicas was: his foreshadowing of the musical trend that he pioneered, and is still prevalent in today's music. A note to Danny: I love David Sylvian but the new album doesn't compare (after only a few listens) to Secrets from the Beehive. A not _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:47:47 -0400 From: "D&T WHEELER" Subject: one of the "stale minds"... To: "Numan Digest" In reply to Danny T's bitch fest... Move along little doggie, this digest is not for you! You are obviously NOT a fan anymore. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:10:19 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Questions And Answers To: "Gary Numan" On Sun, 13 Jun 99 01:00:01 CDT, Darren Hall wrote: >1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album? Before I answer, I'd like to quickly acknowledge that, especially when Sacrifice came out, I was one of those clamoring for Gary to get himself a good producer. Or at least a collaborator - I mean, look at the astounding work he did with Michael R. Smith. But we've since uncovered the fact that most of the production "problems" were mostly owing to the particular set of speakers that Gary has in his VERY SMALL production facility. The only problem Gary Numan has as a producer, to my mind, is that he needs to take some demos of his productions TO ANOTHER STUDIO and hear what they sound like there. Doesn't matter how good your equipment is, it will always "colour" your product to a certain degree. You need to find out how it sounds on a different set (or multiple sets if you've got the time) of equipment. It also would help if he got a second set of ears to assist with the appraisal - since Gemma's a fan and has assisted with engineering, and thus knows her way around a studio, I suggest that she'd be perfect for the job. "Exile" is a well-produced album. There isn't a damned thing wrong with it from a technical perspective. Many people here will dispute me on this, but I'm talking about the technical end of things. Sure, you may think that his vocals tend to get buried from time to time - but that's an ARTISTIC perspective, not a technical one. Some people prefer this type of mix, and Gary's STATED FOR THE RECORD that he is one of them. Any issues you have with the production are artistic, not technical. Well, actually, there's one technical snafu I noticed: at the beginning of "An Alien Cure", after the sound effects finish and immediately before the music kicks in, if you're listening on headphones and have the volume cranked, you can hear some tape "bleed-thru" - you hear an echo of the music BEFORE the music starts. But that's it. :-) You also raised the point that in order to be taken seriously in your appraisal/critique, you should at least show some credentials (that is, if you're going to lob a grenade like "the production is shitty"). My own credentials are an Advanced Diploma in radio production from the Cinema, Television, Stage & Radio Arts Department at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology, the second-highest rated such program in Canada. And I'm sayin' the production is *NOT* shitty, at least not on Exile. It is, in fact, outstanding. >2) Are Eagle capable of recognizing a good album and promoting it >effectively? I really don't think they give a rat's ass. They saw the tide was turning in Gary's favour and decided they wanted a piece of the pie that Beggars Banquet was doing such a good job of baking. These are the same people who were behind Castle Communications, who gave us "The Collection" and (shudder!) "Techno Army". >3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? I can only speak for myself, but while I do listen to Numan frequently, I do listen to a lot of other artists. Granted, most of 'em are older bands, bands that have been around a while, not really a lot of newer or "cutting edge" bands, with Switchblade Symphony being about the only exception. That is, in terms of buying albums - there are certain individual tracks I love to death but I'm never really inspired to go out and buy the album. Examples would be "Walking On The Sun" by Smashmouth, "Song 2" by Blur, "Standing Outside A Broken Phone Booth With Money In My Pocket" by Primitive Radio Gods, and others. For album purchases, my faves are The Tragically Hip, Enya, Chris Whitley, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and many others. My collection now stands at about 300 CD's, about 50 of which are Numan (for a while there I decided I wanted to be a "completist" but later saw the error of my ways!). So I've got 250 other discs to spin, and I've got two-thirds of my collection loaded into a 200-disc changer that I set for random-play whenever I'm working at the computer. About 15% of the loaded discs are Numan, meaning 85% of the music I CHOOSE to listen to is non-Numan. / From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom / Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com / Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY / FAX: +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403) / Visit The NuServer! http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU / Visit The Webb! http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU / / "The Hokey Pokey really doesn't mean anything." / --Everything I Need To Know I Learned From Babylon 5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:06:38 BST From: James Chapman Subject: reintroduction To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello! I'm James Chapman now with an e-mail account I use in my local library having just left university. I have been a Numan fan since 1997 when I found The Premier Hits in my library got it out and was hooked. I now have every Numan studio, extended and all live albums except Living Ornaments 80 on CD. My favourites are Strange Charm (as if you didn't know :-) ), Berserker, TPP, I Assassin, Sacrifice and Metal Rhythm. My fave lives are White Noise and Dark Light. On Saturday I got to see a Numan concert for the first time and I was totallly blown away. Fortunately thanks to the other computing people i met i was able to get close to the front albeit close to the area where everyone pushed each other about during Down In The Park :-) I was surprised that the oldies got the crowd going more than the newer stuff, especially AFE and Cars. I think 7 songs off Exile was a couple to many, I mean it wasn't even the Exile tour which I could understand. Even on the Berserker tour, he only played 4 off the new album (as long as White Noise is the full concert). Before anyone tells me I'm living in the past, you only had to see the difference in crowd reaction, but I did really enjoy Dead Heaven and The Angel Wars. I was also very surprised at The Sleeproom. That was one of the highlights for me, and the big surprise of the night. I didn't expect to haer anything from my favourite album. I hope they are all that good! Cheers, James Chapman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:24:52 +0100 From: "The Waiter" Subject: Silver Disc To: "numan digest" Hello, I have a friend of mine trying to sell an authentic silver disc presented to WEA for 60,000 sales of the Newman Numan LP. It's British and has the UK flag in the top corner etc etc I have seen it and is very nice sadly it also is expensive. If anyone thinks they can afford I would be happy to pass on your details. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:23:46 +0000 From: "Danny Cushion" Subject: STOP IT WASN'T ME!!!!!! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Guys,,guys..woo there!! I,m getting e-mails right left and centre re;"Finnished!"..I'm Danny Cushion "NOT DANNY T"!! Danny's comments have been very upsenting to a few people..including myself ..but please check when you reply to people with the "same" name. Cheers Guys..hope you had a good time on the 12th DANNY..no"T" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:38:57 -0700 From: "Rich Godsil" Subject: The Flip Side of Danny T's remarks To: "Gary Numan" Reading Danny T's message pissed me off as much as many of you (which was his intent). I also listen to several of the bands he listed (NIN, Future Sound, Prodigy) as well as other "Noise / Metal / Goth" bands like Front 242, Ministry, & Skinny Puppy. No comparisons need to be made; I enjoy each band's music for what it is. What Danny T failed to recognize is that these newer bands WERE influenced By GN, Bowie, Joy Division, Eno & Roxy Music, the Human League (pre-pop), …among others. This influence helped these newer bands create their own styles all of which I would label "progressive, eclectic, non-mainstream" rock. This periodical also reintroduced me to GN & his music. If it wasn't for these updates, I would not have known about his US tour last year as well as his recent CDs, Sacrifice & Exile. Both CDs are dark, brooding, hypnotic, and contain some of the best music I've heard in a long time. Songs like Absolution and The Seed of a Lie are emotionally powerful songs with no power chords / chaos needed. I was fortunate to see GN in Seattle last year; I thought the show was even better than when I saw him in 1981 (which was also a great show). Danny T's message reminds me of a statement made by Richard Beltzer (during his comedian days) while he was being heckled by someone in the crowd. Beltzer stopped his routine and stated: "Hey, I have a half hour to make an ass out of myself; Danny T, you have the rest of your life!" Long live Gary Numan & his music! Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:50:45 -0700 From: "Andrew West" Subject: The Forum.....wow! To: "Numan Digest" Hi All Just thought i would send in my views on the Forum gig on Sat 12th. Well the verdict was overall not the best gig i have ever been too but still pretty awesome. The only problems i had were the fact that the bulk of the set was very much all at the same tempo and most of the songs were from the later part of Gary's career. I'm not complaining as such but i do feel that the set could have been a bit more mixed. The beginning and especially the end were bloody brill!! It was also a problem hearing Gary's vocals. This seems to be a problem at most gigs generally but it would in my opinion be better to turn down the backing track a notch and turn his vocals up a bit. Probably the best suprise was the addition of a decent support band. Mesh were awesome which was a view expressed by many Numan fans buying Mesh CD's. One guy said to me and i quote " Mesh were better than Numan" eeek! Good gig but not the best: Later Andrew West donut design. Web Site Solutions +44(0)181-6604531 www.donut.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:48:02 PDT From: ian blair Subject: The Forum / + Wasted digest. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Sat 12th June 1999 - London, The Forum Saturday, was my 30th Numan gig, since my first one, at the Newcastle City Hall, in 1983. Saturday was quite possibly one the best ever Numan gig's I've been to & the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is true. I found I kept bench marking this gig against Nottingham & out of the two, this one was infinitely superior. The venue (my first time here) was excellent, very similar to SBE. The crown and general atmosphere was so much better. Is it a London thing? Mesh, were definitely one the better Numan support bands for some time, if a bit repetitive after a few tracks. Close your eyes and they 'were' Depeche Mode, but they carried that off very well. Curiously the vocal mix for their singer was perfect, which begs curiosity. I was at almost, the middle of the front row (barrier pains still today, Monday!) and we kept commenting all the way through, that the general sound was far better than Rock City. It still needed perfecting though, which is a shame. Gary was evidently aware of this & made clear efforts to assist the engineer, throughout the gig, but why should he need to be doing this at all? He was also concerned about the drum mix at one point. All in all though, the sound was better. Is it to do with the radio microphone? Mesh had no problem at all & their vocals were great, with a conventional lead microphone. The set list was great. With the return of a couple 'current' live tracks that were dropped for Nottingham, kicking things off, 'Films' & 'Absolution'. General arrangement was very good. The surprise at Rock City, was 'Tacks' which we got again. The surprise track for the Forum was 'The Sleeproom'. Wow man, that track fit in perfectly, such an excellent mechanical beat in the background & Gary did the chorus in a higher, more aggressive key than the original. The only obvious track I can see that people have left off reviews is 'Every Day I Die', with much more expression & hand smelling from Gaz, than usual. All in all, I'm convinced that all things together considered, this was, for sure, one of my favourite Numan gigs ever. We heard a 'rumour' afterwards, that 'Depeche Mode' were at the gig & that Gary & the band all went back to one DM's place, for the after show party. One can only 'imagine', that this would have been a slightly better party than the appalling offering at the Red Eye Club, on some council estate in Kings Cross. ====================================================================== By the way, I can't believe you all wasted the whole of the last digest. :( ====================================================================== ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:34:42 +0100 From: Matthew Tamea Subject: The Forum Parking To: Numannews To all those of you that suffered at the hands of the clampers on Saturday night, The Forum will reimburse your ?85 parking fee. After a lot of haggling with the clampers I eventually got so fed up that I went to see the venue manager - he very quickly stumped up the money for the remaining two of us... If anyone knows the following people and they aren't on the digest can you let them know this... Shirley Porter (P548 GRR) Ken Bailey (J212 EMA) I know that Paddy V will see this, but anyone who I haven't listed that got clmaped just let The Forum know - you'll probably need to supply proof of going to the gig and your parking ticket. Good luck!! Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:16:58 +0000 From: shin-ichi ueda Subject: There are some japaneses such as Danny T! To: Numan Digest Hello. Long live the Numan Digest! Well. I've been perplexed at mr. Danny T's opinion and rejoinders. Everyone is allowed to have one's opinion. This is the freedom of thought. And I have mine. I like Gary's recent works. But I wont to fight against haters. By the way, unfortunately, some japanese music press' opinion is just like as Danny's one! Magazines such as "Music Magazine" "Music Life" had bitterly criticized Numan's recent albums such as "New Anger" "Skin Mechanics" "Outland" "Exiles". Funnily enough, the Music Magazines had condemned "the Skin Mechanics" as "An tiresome old music show by a man of past-glory". And the same magazine had criticized "Outland" comparing Gary with David Sylvian(!), and said such as "Both was pioneers of electronica. But David now creates a music with deep emotion investigating his inner-world, by contrast Gary Numan plays only a poor and funny fake-black-music"(!!). Of course, I had got very angry at the magazine and its review. "I like this anger and I wont forget" :-) This must be a incidental coincidence. And, of course, I wont to say and dont think that Danny is a Japanese. :-) That is one of a popular opinions, I suppose. However, certainly there are many magazines and writers admires Numan. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Shin-Ichi Ueda Research Fellow of JSPS shin1@logos.tsukuba.ac.jp ------------------------ If my writing this book benefits a student I know nothing about who lives in Japan, would it not follow that there is a good common to him and to me? Malcolm Schofield,The Stoic Idea of the City p.99 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:25:35 PDT From: J Blanc Subject: This message isn't directed to Danny T, rather it's about... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Those questions posted last digest. >1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album? Yes. The only thing I could complain about regarding exile is the strange way it was produced/mixed in that his voice really max's out the speakers (not sure of the technical term) when he sings. >2) Are Eagle capable of recognizing a good album and promoting it effectively? I don't think, at least in exile's case, they have thus far. They really need to release a single and a video in places other than just Europe (such as North America, Australia, etc...) As for recognizing a good'n, signing Gary in the first place is proof of that. >3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? Definately not. My music collection numbers in the hundreds of CDs, Tapes, LP's and less than twenty are Numan releases. Although I hope to add to that number ;) P.S. sorry about the hotmail address, it's only temporary! I have to cut and paste to save the digest to my PC, and that's a royal pain. "No safety in old glories" - BasicJ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:51:53 -0700 From: Robert Trousdale Subject: TO: Darren Hall's Questions To: Gary Numan I am at a point in my life where responding to flame bait is just no longer fun. BUT, I found your answer to Danny's bait well thought out and reasoned. And I was interested in your comments enough to respond to your POLITELY asked questions (rather than Danny's erm... well, we'll just leave it at that shall we? :-) 1. Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album. Yes! No question about it. I would love to see what a cutting edge producer or DJ team or whatever could do with Gary's music. I'm just not sure that Gary could ever trust any potential producer enough to turn over that job. As far as I know, Gary has ALWAYS produced his own records. We can only hope eh? 2. Are Eagle capable of recognizing and promoting a good record? I am not qualified to answer this, I certainly think Cleopatra IS capable. Most of the music I listen to these days is released on Cleo, or Hypnotic (a subsidiary of Cleo). 3. Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? GOD I hope not. I certianly don't. Matter of fact, Numan is not even my favorite artist anymore - though he certianly was for a long time, and I will continue to buy his records even if they are not well liked by the majority of people on this list, not to mention the rest of the world. Right now I am really into so called techno - electronica. I really enjoy Underworld, Banco De Gaia, Chemical Bros., William Orbit, The Orb, those kinds of bands. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Darren Emerson of Underworld produce the next Numan Album... droool.... :-) -Escher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:45:14 -0700 From: Kathryn Silures Subject: X-mas card & Trolls To: numan@cs.uwp.edu U.S. Site Owners, why will you not post the X-mas card on your sites? This was a very special thing to the US fans from the Webbs. I had hoped it would be shared. If you are a Gary Numan Fan Site owner and would like to receive a jpeg of the card to post on your site please email me at obsidian@aros.net (Am I persona non grata?) Also, something useful I dug up on Usenet. Original author unknown. I did a little editing. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Don't Feed the Trolls! - or - Trolls and How to Deal With Them (Written by a person concerned with peace of mind in our newsgroups.) *And mailing lists!* 1) What is a troll? In short, one who posts off-topic trash to newsgroups. These posts may consist of spam (advertisement), flames (hateful language) and general idiocy. More insidious trolls appear to post on-topic and may even post useful information in order to gain trust and further their harmful agenda. 2) How does one spot a troll? A troll is characterized by many features. Some are easily spotted. Behavior as described above is an obvious tip-off. However, others are a bit more devious. Most trolls are quite ignorant but a few do seem to exhibit a sort of psychopathic genius. Some of the craftier ones will pretend an interest in the group and topic and post a few well written and respectful messages in order to gain the trust of a group. The favorite prey of this type of troll seem to be support and self-help type groups. A good way to confirm suspicion that someone may be a troll is to visit Dejanews at http://www.deja.com or http://www.dejanews.com and enter the screen name, alias or email address into their search engine. Dejanews is a site that keeps a very large database of nearly all messages posted in any Usenet group and will display the posting history of the person in question. One may review other messages by this individual, in what newsgroups as well as other aliases. 3) What can we do about trolls? There are two methods - the easy way and the hard way. The easy way is to simply do nothing. Simply do not read or respond to a known troll. These parasites thrive on our reactions and are overjoyed at the scathing replies they receive. They also get a good laugh at those who respond with polite requests to stop their behavior. Reverse psychology replies such as, `You are so funny! Please keep posting!` are also quite useless. People, these vermin CANNOT and WILL NOT be silenced, educated or rehabilitated. At least not on the internet. Every response to a troll is fuel and feed for them. Ignore them and they will perish. The hard way is to locate the server or ISP from which the troll is posting, email them a sample of the offending post, and hope that the troll's account is canceled. This sometimes actually works. But many ISPs will rightfully protect the user's `freedom of speech` unless certain laws or service agreements are violated in the content of the message. Then again, there are always those who post anonymously or with ever changing aliases and false email addresses. No way to get a handle on them. Therefore, I personally recommend the EASY way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Just thought I would pass this along. If you find this information to be helpful please pass it along to other newsgroups or mailing lists you are concerned with. Good luck to all! Peace, Kathryn Silures ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:44:04 -0400 From: "Mark Reinertson" Subject: Zom zom's To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Take a look at ancient mythology. It was a city in the desert if I remember correctly. Mark Reinertson Proud member of freaks like us. Proud member of the Detroit Contigent. ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** _______________________________________________________________________ _____ ____ ____ _____ _____ / \ | | / \ / \ / \ / \ | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | G | | A | | | R | | Y | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | N | E | W | S |=====| | | | | | | | & | | | | | | | \_____/ I | N | F | O | | | | is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: numan@cs.uwp.edu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu ----------------- The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Datta Production and Development, 905 97th Street, Kenosha, WI 53143 USA datta@cs.uwp.edu and computer resources courtesy of University of Wisconsin-Parkside and Datta Production and Development. 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