Gary Numan Digest Sun, 20 Jun 99 Volume 1 : Issue 548 Today's Topics: Danny T Exposed... Darren Hall's issue-raising rejoinder Darren Hall's Questions Eno/Numan? Gary Numan Digest V1 #546 Gary Numan Digest V1 #547 (3 msgs) Good prices on Numan CDs Hello Danny (was ) Is Gary Finished? / The best is yet to come lost the plot Not Another Awards Show!!! Questions And Answers Sound Clips The First Digest Ever ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:43:05 -0400 From: "laurabrown/aaronhannum" Subject: Danny T Exposed... To: "numan list" oh danny, danny, danny... you typical human being, you. i'll bet you feel good, huh?! well, you know what? most of what you said is very true about me. living in the past, not being 'hip' by overlooking most of the current music scene, collecting every little scrap of numan re-issues so Gary Greed can buy a new car (but i can afford it) and all that other shit. but for some reason when i listen to "i'm an agent" for the 3547th time it still manages to send shivers up my spine and make me feel wonderful. when i played "sacrifice" for the first time i had tears in my eyes saying to myself over and over "he's back... he's back... he's Numan again!". it's obvious to me that Gary's music never really got to you in quite the way it did me and many others on this list. your passion for david sylvian's work (which i share to an extent) is no better than mine for Gary's. in fact, i find alot of sylvian's work quite pretentious and self indulgent. when i met Gary last year here in chicago i had him autograph my right forearm and i had it tattooed in the same day. i planned it all my life. i still look at it and get extremely emotional. you see, i grew up with him. i had friends, toys, wonderful parents, etc... i had alot of fun. but Gary was mine. even after '81 i still ran to the record store in september for the new album. it was like christmas. my own private christmas. even during the lean years of '88 - '92 i bought everything and looked for the good points buried in funk drivel. he was in there somewhere. i don't care if he doesn't program his synths. i like his voice, his melodies, his style. that's it. as far as my other musical obsessions are concerned, they include bowie, eno, kraftwerk, severed heads, orbital, afx twin, ultravox, frank sinatra and the beatles. there are a couple new one's in there but sinatra and the beatles?! i admit i wouldn't tattoo anyone else's autograph on my arm but i'm passionate about these artists as well. passion. when it comes to Numan you never got it. he never struck that chord in you that David Sylvian obviously has. you missed it. you're the guy at the party who hit's on the most attractive woman and after she ignores you you come to the conclusion that she's a lesbian. you're the guy who looks for all the bad aspects of anything to set yourself apart from the rest which makes you feel superior. like you know something the rest of us don't. you've convinced yourself that people see you as you do. we don't. i'll bet you didn't even like Star Wars Episode 1! as far as "getting a life" is concerned all i have to say is this. i have a wonderful wife and six year old daughter. they are both Numanoids. i am a manager at guitar center, the wife's a schoolteacher and my daughter will someday discover life on another planet. we are a very happy family. my little girls favorite song is "I Die: You Die" and the entire "Exile" album. how's that for an unbiased opinion? she likes old and new. obviously you're thinking "well of course she likes numan. you force it on her". maybe, but she can't stand hip hop. i love my life and Numan records will be played til the day i die. you, sir, need to get a life. aaron p.s. go fuck yourself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:30:05 +1200 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Darren Hall's issue-raising rejoinder To: "Numan Digest" >Sure liked the Darren Hall letter. I wanted to address the things he >opened for discussion. Why thankyou. It is nice to know that posts are not ignored as "the rantings of a deranged mind", which mine mostly are - they are either ignored or are indeed "the rantings of a deranged mind"! You just happened to get one of my more comprehensive and lucid compositions. (I won't reveal how much I had to drink before writing it) >1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next >album? > >Like Brian Wilson sang a long time ago, "Wouldn't It Be Nice?" But, >having said that, I admire GN's control freak thing even if the results >aren't to MY absolute liking. It would be my dream that he team up with >Brian Eno for just one record just "to see what happens." I also, can understand where Gary is coming from, in wanting to control his sound. I just think he would benefit from some constructive input in the production area. He doesn't have to take advice from anyone (even his fans), but he just might get a surprise and like what someone else could do to his music. As for Eno, yeah, a good choice, maybe get Fripp in for some guitar work. Hell, even Sylvian for some crooning vocals. Toyah could do backing (if Gary decided he needed female vox again). >2) Are Eagle capable of recognizing a good album and promoting >effectively? > >Maybe but, for some reason, I don't think so. It was such a "should've" >thing in the past few years. Came damn close. Came damn close? where and when?. Here in the antipodes, no-one has heard of Eagle and the only source of Numan material has been through one record store importing through Cleopatra. Most of my collection have been bought through Amazon or NuStreet. >3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? >This is kind of fun for me because I go through these listening cycles >and have done my whole life. Ain't it cool (echoes of Travolta in Broken Arrow) when you have enough music from one artist to be able to listen to them for a whole week or more without getting bored? Here's my list of "cycles": David Sylvian, JMJ, Jethro Tull !, Pet Shop Boys (maybe I should not have admitted that one on this list?), St. Ettienne, Kraftwerk, Kate Bush, Adam Ant, Peter Gabriel, Dave Stewart, Yes... >Hey, was Gary really dropped from Eagle? Don't know, I suspect he was signed up on a deal that only required one album and the rest was played by ear and they decided to let him do another. Darren Hall halldj at ihug dot co dot nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:42:45 +500 From: dfinney@wt.net Subject: Darren Hall's Questions To: numan@cs.uwp.edu escher@turbonet.com wrote: >1. Should Gary seek professional help with production on the >next album. > >Yes! No question about it. I would love to see what a cutting edge >producer or DJ team or whatever could do with Gary's music. Bleah! I agree Gary would probably benefit from more outside input, be it producing, playing, or whatever. But a "cutting edge" producer or DJ team is the *last* sort of influence I (or I expect Gary) would want. IMO a good producer is one who can improve a band's sound without fundamentally changing it. You know all all those really dated 80's albums with gated "Phil Collins" drum sounds and digital keyboard horn fills? That was the "cutting edge" sound at the time. Ten years from know the really dated 90's albums are going to be full of lame hip-hop sound bites. I don't think Gary needs to change his sound, just mix things up a bit. Get a bit less muddy, get some new drum loops, get somebody else tossing out suggestions just to shake up his recording process, get some variation in there. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:06:43 -0700 From: Pythoness Subject: Eno/Numan? To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > It would be my dream that he team up with >Brian Eno for just one record just "to see what happens." It would be a personality clash you could probably hear for miles. zg Ziggy Blum (zigi@ravenland.com) Ziggy's House O' Vermin http://www.ravenland.com/index.htm/index.htm Updates dead in the water! You just wait! --------------------------- All the clouds turn to words All the words float in sequence No one knows what they mean Everyone just ignores them. --Eno ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:43:36 -0700 From: newcombg4@mindspring.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #546 To: "Gary Numan" There was a paperclip next to digest #546 in my Inbox, indicating an attachment. I don't expect to get an attachment to the digest, but after that Happy99 thing, I look for them anyway. But when I opened the message there was no attachment?! I'm scared! Is there some way to strip any attachments that get posted to the digest? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:21:38 -0400 From: Seldon/AMAZING HEROES Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #547 To: Gary Numan This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7417840DAE2AE1822E9872D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Danny, These are excellent points you raise. They should have been included with your original missive. Then you would not have been crucified as badly by those who cannot express themselves otherwise. I understand your lament. Nothing is worse than when a person we have put on a pedestal do not live up to our expectations. However, to get them off their pedestal, we must first get off our knees. I reiterate: vote with your pocketbook. DO NOT buy the artists work. However, you must allow others the right, and resorting to name calling is not the way to win others over to your cause. The Ego is a strange thing. Creative people have one that is larger than most, and theirs needs more positive reinforcement to make them feel their work is important. Nevertheless, they must eat. If Gary is condemning the use of sound clips on fan based web sites, then these sites must cease using them. Eventually, though, he will see the error of his ways in lagging album sales. The royalty checks will become less and less, and the business end of the artist will take over. The artist must create. We cannot stop them. But, we do not have to be their patron. Danny, I agree partly with your message. I certainly defend your God-given right to express it. Just remember, the end of the equation is almost always painted in dollar signs. Output=$, $=output. Do not buy the compilations and the rehashes and the stuff you believe to be inferior and I guarantee that Gary will stop putting it out. Robert Canipe Ardent Gary Numan fan since 1979 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:53:20 GMT > From: D * > Subject: > To: numan-request@cs.uwp.edu > > Hi everyone, > > I realise that I am NOT flavour of the weak at the moment and I cannot > possibly answer all your insults in one go, but I’ll try. > > First of all, the reason for my rant. Two things really, when I saw people > arguing about font sizes on Gary’s CD covers I really did think it was time > to kick a few backsides. Secondly, and more importantly, has anyone read > Gary Numan’s comments on his own NuWorld site regarding the use of sound > clips on their web pages and how he will disown you if you don’t remove > them. Now that is the behaviour of a tosser. The people that write these > web-sites have usually followed him from day one. They have spent hours > working on a web-site devoted to this man. In order to inform other fans, > promote his music and generally help his ailing career. And he’s getting > heavy because he’s worried a few tight-wads are gonna sit there listening to > his album on the internet rather than buy it. That’s desperate! > > I used to be a massive Numan fan, but I first got suspicious of how much he > ‘loved’ the fans when he defended the release of ‘No More Lies’ in 10 > different formats. It wasn’t long of course before he sold his entire back > catalogue for a wad of cash and then professed his innocence and annoyance > that those he sold them to were releasing compilation after compilation and > ripping us off. Well what did he think they were going to do, lock them in a > dark cupboard for 5 years and give them back. Of course the Techno Army > thing didn’t help, boasting how he got paid thousands of pounds for singing > appallingly over a collection of equally appalling remixes. Just another > compilation to add to the others he already hypocritically slagged off. Yet > you all continue to lap him up, have you no principles? Is it not bad enough > that he makes such a pitiful effort with his music anymore? I mean Sacrifice > wasn’t an album, it was a fucking Demo! Don’t you think you deserve more > than that? > > I have had many replies over the past week or so, some even agreeing with me > would you believe. And I apologise for labelling you ALL braindead. Some of > the more intelligent contributors lead me to believe that perhaps only 80% > of you are braindead,. Well done. Believe me, there is nothing I would like > more than to see Gary Numan come back with an album as good as anything he > did up to and including Dance, dream on. I just hope he gives up gracefully > once and for all after his next miserable album fails. Ok most of you are > too blind to see that he will NEVER be anywhere near as good as he once was, > just trying to open a few eyes, the response was electric. > > Danny T > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ --------------7417840DAE2AE1822E9872D5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="seldon.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Seldon/AMAZING HEROES Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="seldon.vcf" begin:vcard n:Canipe;Robert x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:AMAZING HEROES adr:;;166 Valley Hills Mall;Hickory;NC;28602;USA version:2.1 email;internet:seldon@twave.net title:Owner fn:Robert Canipe end:vcard --------------7417840DAE2AE1822E9872D5-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:23:12 +0200 From: "Jonathan" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #547 To: "Gary Numan" >>5. Position on the "Numa" years: Well, this is tricky. I really hate cliche female backup singers and large amounts of brass (synth and otherwise), so large portions of the Numa years really really turned me off. However, Upon hearing 'Sacrifice' I shifted my opinion a bit due to the realization that Gary had made a nice move with that album in particular. 'Exile' kind of left me flat, but I will concede that Gary's live versions of the album tracks are a bit more appetizing. Oh yes, I also don't like this cliche background singers. On the album Sacrifice it is very good solved, but on machine & soul... urghs. I can remember in Caroline Munro (she was that beautiful woman in "The spy who loved me", James Bond, in the seventies. She was sitting in the helicopter and was shooting at James). What about her? If I remember right she sung on a maxi single in the 80s a song by Gary Numan. Any1 knows more? AND: Maybe someone of you has got the lyrics of the bonus tracks of this albums I mentioned above??! (Machine&Soul/Sacrifice). It would be simply great! ;-) Jonathan _____________________________________ If I like Gary music? Yes! So: "Don't save my sohohuoul"! _____________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:26:14 +0100 From: "Antonio" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #547 To: "Gary Numan" Mascara gave you deep allure Of your sex they couldn't be sure (Marc Almond - 'Trials of Eyeliner') ----------- http://www.goffboi.freeserve.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 17 June 1999 07:00 Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #547 Just a couple of points for now - On the subject of dan-T, I think what pissed most people off wasn't so much his remarks about Gary, more the personal digs at the fans, which were based on, well, nothing really. Also, a small point to "Ingo Weinard" > who said, > the intro, wich was playing came from the Dark City Soundtrack and was not > written by him? It is the song nr.6! -oh oh oh- Has Gary no ideas > anymore???? And this is just a small point - how many gigs have you been to? Not Numan gigs, just gigs in general? It's been a standard of nearly every gig I've seen in the last 15 years to play an intro which is by somebody else. I don't know why, it just is. Half the fun of intro's is guessing where the song has come from! I think it's only Numan and Depeche Mode who I've seen who have composed their own intro's, and even then, it's generally been a backing tape. So for Gary Numan to enter stage to something off the Dark City soundtrack is hardly evidence of a lack of ideas. Which leads me to ask, what would be the ideal intro song for Gary Numan's next show? Go on, if you could choose? I'd love to see him enter the stage to snippets from 'the Hunger' soundtrack, myself. Antonio, who wasn't at the Forum so can't comment on how good or bad Gary was that night. ----------- http://www.goffboi.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:12:37 -0400 From: "Terrence Thoman" Subject: Good prices on Numan CDs To: "Numan Digest, Gary" I hope this doesn't come across as an unwelcome commerical, but I just ordered several of the BB reissues from an online store, Mass Music. They are currently on sale for $6.99US. I've done business with this company before, having acquired 'Praying To The Aliens' from them last year and they were very prompt on delivery. FYI in case anyone's interested in a good deal. The URL is www.massmusic.com Terrence ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:07:37 +1200 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Hello Danny (was ) To: "Numan Digest" >Hi everyone, Hello Danny, it's nice to know that you are still around. "Hell hath no fury like a Numanoid scorned", so they say, and I was in grave fear for your safety. I do hope that Hotmail don't suffer from one of their embarrassing security breaches that would give your real name and address away...I wonder if anyone on the list knows anyone that works there? Wait a minute, I think that I do... >I realise that I am NOT flavour of the weak at the moment and I cannot >possibly answer all your insults in one go, but I'll try. Oh, but you are the flavour of the weak(sic) - just ask your friends ;-). As for insults, I don't think that you got any more than you dished out, although I did think the 1" dick thing was a little rude (pun intended). >>First of all, the reason for my rant. Two things really, when I saw people >arguing about font sizes on Gary's CD covers I really did think it was time >to kick a few backsides. Oooh, I love this one. If you wanted to kick backsides for discussing font sizes on covers that why did your post mainly attack Gary, his music and his fans? No mention of fonts. On this list, if you think someone (even me) is talking bollocks, just say so. >Secondly, and more importantly, has anyone read >Gary Numan's comments on his own NuWorld site regarding the use of sound >clips on their web pages ... Now that is the behaviour of a tosser. Yes, I read it and agree with Gary on this one. Copyright is Copyright. Period. Gary works hard to make his music and has contracta with music publishers to publish and distribute his intellectual property. In return Gary ensures that he receives appropriate payment for his work. I too, would take this stance with any of my intellectual property. (Don't anyone of you think of copying this mail or I'll sure your buttocks off!) Whilst I do not agree with the music industries dealings with the MP3 market (trying to ban the format, rather than dealing with the legal issues), I do agree that if a work is Copyright to a particular artist/recording company then any copies of that work (outside the "Home recording Act" or equivalent in your country) are legally and morally wrong. Once an artist loses control of their creative output they might as well pack up and go fishing for chickens in the Sahara. >...It wasn't long of course before he sold his entire back >catalogue for a wad of cash and then professed his innocence and annoyance >that those he sold them to were releasing compilation after compilation and >ripping us off. The compilation issue is well known and discussed to death on this list. I for one have the ability to choose which issues to buy and which to leave on the shelf. As for the back catalogue reissues, without these, my collection would be limited to those albums that were distributed in Australasia in the early '80s i.e. Everything up to "The Fury" on vinyl!!!. Although, it seems that this would suit you fine. >Is it not bad enough >that he makes such a pitiful effort with his music anymore? I mean Sacrifice >wasn't an album, it was a fucking Demo! Don't you think you deserve more >than that? Here we go making unqualified judgements again. I would not call Garys efforts "pitiful". Sacrifice at it's worse is better than most mainstream "industrial" at its best. But that's just my opinion. I still don't like Sacrifice. As for deserving, I deserve nothing from Gary. As I, and others have said, we choose to buy whatever we buy and can choose to stop anytime. (Sometimes, if you ask nicely, the record shop will let you listen to a CD so that you can decide whether you like it before you buy it) >...he will NEVER be anywhere near as good as he once was, I think that it is too early to tell. Until Gary dies, there is always potential for him to be as good as he once was, if he isn't already. Again, some fans like his early stuff best, others actually like Sacrifice and Exile! Go figure. And that's Goodnight from me... Darren Hall - Great Southern Numanoid. halldj at ihug dot co dot nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:14:21 +1200 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Is Gary Finished? / The best is yet to come To: "Numan Digest" Well put Mark ! I had also organised Garys albums into groups, but hadn't noticed the strong pattern of 3's. Also, your points about Garys current exposure and new recording studio certainly seem to indicate that, if nothing else, his next album has a good chance of being better than Sacrifice/Exile. Darren Hall halldj at ihug dot co dot nz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:08:42 +0100 From: "Freeserve" Subject: lost the plot To: Danny T seems to have lost the plot. Just because we don't agree with him he assumes that we must be all wrong. Danny you need to look at your self because your arrogance is unbelievable. Just because you feel that all recordings after Dance were not as good does not mean that other people feel the same way. An even if they agreed with you most of the digesters here still like what he has done after that. If people don't like what he is doing they won't buy the recordings, but they don't go around being rude to others who don't share their opinion. Please don't patronise me with your opinion of whether I am brain dead or not. As I am alive and writing this it would seem that I am not. As I recall he only was upset about MP3 files on other people's web sites and I can understand why he feels the way he does. I dare say that if your income was made from something that other people were copying and then giving away free you'd also feel a bit aggrieved. Mine and other peoples eyes are open it is just that you feel that what they see has no value and tat only what you think matters. You really are a sad git. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:15:28 +0100 From: colin_l Subject: Not Another Awards Show!!! To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hi Everyone. BBC TV showed a light hearted programme on memorable award show mishaps etc presented by Angus Deayton. And they showed Gary's appearance via satellite for the Nationwide Rock and Pop Awards back in 1980 when gary was voted Best Male Artist(?) of 1979, but unfortunately while we could see him sitting still looking uncomfortable at the flooer with a lapel microphone, and earpiece, presenter Dave Lee Travis congratulations to Gary didn't get to Gary's earpiece as there was no response, just the perils of a satellite link up failing on live television. Angus Deayton wryly commented(as always) ; "Gary Numan looking slightly more animated there than normal..." !!! Incidentally, re The Forum concerts, I felt that the sound at the concerts is too loud and distorted... Colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:37:47 +1200 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Questions And Answers To: "Numan Digest" In answer to Joey Lindstrom: >>1) Should Gary seek professional help with production on the next album? > >But we've since uncovered the fact that most of the production >"problems" were mostly owing to the particular set of speakers that >Gary has in his VERY SMALL production facility. > >The only problem Gary Numan has as a producer, to my mind, is that he >needs to take some demos of his productions TO ANOTHER STUDIO and hear >what they sound like there. Doesn't matter how good your equipment is, >it will always "colour" your product to a certain degree. You need to >find out how it sounds on a different set (or multiple sets if you've >got the time) of equipment. It also would help if he got a second set >of ears to assist with the appraisal - since Gemma's a fan and has >assisted with engineering, and thus knows her way around a studio, I >suggest that she'd be perfect for the job. I agree that if the problem is a "particular set of speakers that Gary has in a very small production facility", then Gary is at fault for not listening to his productions in other studios. This is exactly why Gary should use a professional producer. A professional would be aware of the limitiations of the equipment in the studio and would take appropriate measures to avoid producing something that only sounds good in one particular environment. After all, Gary has produced approximately 20 albums in a handful of studios, whereas a professional would (should?) have done a couple of hundred albums in more studios. >You also raised the point that in order to be taken seriously in your >appraisal/critique, you should at least show some credentials ... Impressive, perhaps you should talk to Gary... As for my credentials, I am a professional software developer and know that software must be thoroughly tested in all the environments where it is to be deployed. I am also aware of the differences that particular audio equipment can have on a listening experience. It is with this in mind that I feel that I can make the previous statement. As for Gemma, I am sure that Gary has other jobs in mind for her (nudge nudge) ;o) >>3) Is this list composed of people that listen to nothing but Numan? > >I can only speak for myself, but while I do listen to Numan frequently, >I do listen to a lot of other artists. It seems that this is true of most people on the list. Kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we are not a bunch of *braindead* saddos, doesn't it? Darren Hall halldj at ihug dot co dot nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:42:51 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Sound Clips To: "Gary Numan" Although I disagree with just about everything Danny said in his "defence" of his rant, I'm not going to get into it a whole lot - I'll let others take that ball and run with it. :-) (Y'all did a sterling job last week, every point I was going to make got made by others!) But as someone who has ONE HELL OF A LOT of (mostly) authorized Numan audio clips on his website, I want to address his comments on this topic. On Thu, 17 Jun 99 01:00:01 CDT, Danny wrote: >Secondly, and more importantly, has anyone read >Gary Numan's comments on his own NuWorld site regarding the use of soun= d >clips on their web pages and how he will disown you if you don't remove= >them. Now that is the behaviour of a tosser. The people that write thes= e >web-sites have usually followed him from day one. They have spent hours= >working on a web-site devoted to this man. In order to inform other fan= s, >promote his music and generally help his ailing career. And he's gettin= g >heavy because he's worried a few tight-wads are gonna sit there listeni= ng to >his album on the internet rather than buy it. That's desperate! Danny, you've rather missed Gary's point. He does not say he will disown anybody who uses sound clips. He says he will disown (ie: not list in his links page) any site that posts FULL LENGTH SONGS IN CD-QUALITY MP3 FORMAT. There's a difference. And as far as I know, only one site does this - and the site that does do this is steering well clear of available-on-CD tracks and is sticking with live and bootleg tracks. Well, mostly. :-) Here's the actual text in question, from Gary's site (hmmm, am I violating copyright?): =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Polite Notice To Numan Site Authors. I appreciate the effort that you all put into your sites, I really do. BUT. Anyone that thinks putting entire songs on-line in near CD quality MP3 format is helping my career in any way is sadly mistaken. Lesser quality samples are still illegal but infinitely more acceptable to me. Let's be honest, I'm hardly a big seller am I, and so giving my songs away is a bizarre way of trying to help. In the future anyone putting up MP3 files of entire Numan songs (clips of tracks don't bother me) will be removed from this page. I have no wish to get heavy, I will not inform the various authorities in any country, but I'm buggered if I'm going to link to people that I genuinely believe are harming me. Whether you agree with me or not, giving my music away is NOT your decision to make! Gary Numan. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Notice carefully that he says "lesser quality samples are still illegal but inifinitely more acceptable to me." Given what we know about Gary's stance vis-a-vis bootlegs, and his later comments, we can take this to read "go ahead and do low-quality MP3 or RealAudio clips (not full songs, although if low quality I can at least accept it)", but he CANNOT say this because it will put him in conflict with his record labels - THEY CONTROL THE COPYRIGHT IN THE PERFORMANCES. As to the "harm" he speaks of, again you miss the point. Certainly he is talking about lost sales, but I don't think that's the big problem. The big problem is that if he is SEEN TO ENDORSE SITES THAT DO THIS, it could put him in SERIOUS legal trouble with his record labels. And that's the last thing he needs. THAT, Danny boy, is "harm". If you still think Gary's being a "tosser", compare his stance (and his statement that he will NOT notify ANY authorities about your activities no matter how freakin' blatant they may be), consider that many, many, many artists and record labels have come down on a great many fan websites as hard as they can - even some that had song clips as short as 15 seconds in length. In crappy RealAudio. Some site operators have had their sites shut down, been taken to court, and ordered to pay heavy damages. In comparison, I'd have to say Gary's being very, very good to us. He rules out full-length CD-quality songs - which to my mind is completely understandable - but SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS nearly every other use of HIS product. *HIS* product, Danny. He owns it and don't you ever forget it. When you buy a Numan CD, you are buying the right to *ONE* copy of it for your own *PERSONAL* use. Rebroadcast of that copy, even on the internet, is open-and-shut ILLEGAL. Period. Yet he says "go right ahead and do it", and despite his "crackdown" he still links to all known Numan sites - including the one I mentioned that DOES violate this. Yeah, what a fucking tosser Gary Numan is... I don't know what you're so bitter about, Danny, but it has coloured your judgment and all of your arguments. Perhaps you should look into recreational enemas. / From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom / Email: Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU or joey@lindstrom.com / Phone: +1 403 313-JOEY / FAX: +1 413 643-0354 (yes, 413 not 403) / Visit The NuServer! http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU / Visit The Webb! http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU / / Rush Limbaugh's Updated 35 UNDENIABLE TRUTHS / / NUMBER 8 / / The most beautiful thing about a tree is what you do with it after you / cut it down. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:40:55 -0700 From: "Kristina Panos" Subject: The First Digest Ever To: Greetings fellow Noids: Does anyone still have the first Digest on file? If so, could you please = email it to me? I think it would be interesting. I tried the ftp address for the archive, but my browser did not find it. Thanks! A Proud Member of the Braindead Assembly of Numan Fans Association Reverend Kristina K. Panos Chairwoman of the Department of Redundancy Department US Senate ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** _______________________________________________________________________ _____ ____ ____ _____ _____ / \ | | / \ / \ / \ / \ | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | G | | A | | | R | | Y | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | N | E | W | S |=====| | | | | | | | & | | | | | | | \_____/ I | N | F | O | | | | is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: numan@cs.uwp.edu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu ----------------- The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Datta Production and Development, 905 97th Street, Kenosha, WI 53143 USA datta@cs.uwp.edu and computer resources courtesy of University of Wisconsin-Parkside and Datta Production and Development. 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