Gary Numan Digest Sun, 18 Jul 99 Volume 1 : Issue 556 Today's Topics: 2000 - A Space Oddessy - Native New Yorker A Year One? Bad day at the office, apologies in advance bits and pieces..... Down In The Park Video Elevator music Gary's career Gary at Leics Univ Gary Numan Digest V1 #555 Millennium more martin and numan new anger New email adress nu-milennium stuff Numallenium + management (2 msgs) Numan Newsgroup numillenium Piracy pirating/guilt Sacrifice/ Exile/ Bootlegs/ etc.... The Aircrash Bureau/Reissues Galore The piracy issue this & that Tony Upcoming new releases Yeltsin innocent? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:10:56 +0100 From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk Subject: 2000 - A Space Oddessy - Native New Yorker To: Gary Numan Well, thank you, Joey! So **THAT'S** why it's called 2001 - A Space Odyessy. I went to see it, and had NO IDEA that it was supposed to be the start of a numillennium. Come to think of it, I had no idea why there were apes at the start, and no idea why a big flat brick kept popping up, and no idea why the chap in the end suddenly had a house out in the middle of nowherem, and no idea who came out of the closet, and no idea why I had paid good money to see it at all. The music was good. And I like music. And technically, the new millennium **does** start in 2001. Paddy Vickers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:17:04 -0400 From: dagonet@netwide.net (Don McCrum) Subject: A Year One? To: Gary Numan List condensed version: >blah blah blah...2000... Blah..... blah blah 2001 Blah. If there never was a year one (Augustian Calender was post 1 A.D -- whatever that stands for to an atheist) how could there ever be a year 2001...? "Random" thought.... ;) (Well, it has a touch of GN in it.... ^_^ D -- http://www.netwide.net/users/dagonet/ ICQ #12788034/ AIM: MOAPOG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:36:42 +0100 From: Steve Perryman Subject: Bad day at the office, apologies in advance To: "'Gary Numan'" So Gary should get together with fans to discuss what's going on with his music. Is something wrong with it? Is it not the best thing since sliced politician? Are you saying that after 20-odd years, he still doesn't know what he's doing? And he needs our help? Oh dear! OK, all his albums have been flawed in some way, but isn't that the appeal? None of them sound quite right (especially not the demos that were released as "Sacrifice"), and that's why we buy them and not slick David Foster-produced in-one-ear-and-out-the-other blandness. Perhaps the thing about Numan is that people have grown up listening to Numan, perhaps playing along with a guitar or synth, they've spotted the flaws and realised how they could improve on them and gone on to make THEIR OWN records. Great! Smashing! (Pumpkins, amongst others, probably) The bottom line is I wouldn't have any respect for an artist who has to consult his audience before making an album. And neither would many of you, I would wager. Cheers, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:04:00 +0000 From: philip.lindsay@bae.co.uk Subject: bits and pieces..... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu howdy. I don't normally post but one or two things have come up recently in the= digest which I have to comment on..... CD burning - IMO ( <--- ) you can't really defend this. My hackles went= up immediately it was mentioned, but I didn't feel the need to say anything= because I knew others would say those things soon enough. Asking the dig= est to provide the covers and inlays was, I feel, a bit rich. This smacks of= something more than copying discs for a friend. If you want to help a friend into Numan surely you can give them a tape recording - this lets them hear the music, but still gives Gary at least a chance of receiving= his (deserved) royalties when the friend then goes on to buy the (higher= audio quality) CDs. Burning a copy of a CD may turn someone on to the music, but _definitely_ loses Gary his royalties. I feel you're fooling yourself if you think anything else. I think we also have to make the distinction between CDRs of commerciall= y available audio CDs and those of unavailable live shows. I don't really want to get into the whole bootleg argument here, but with one you're ripping of the artist, the other you're not (most people who look for bootlegs have the complete artists catalogue beforehand - I know I did).= The availability of CD writers/recorders doesn't make it OK to rip an artist off. One last point; again IMO, this is _not_ the same as dubbing a tape copy= , and it's _not_ the same as recording a film from TV - as far as I know, it's not illegal to record a film for personal use (often I've recorded from TV, then bought the video because the quality was better - see the point about audio tape copies above), only public broadcast. The other thing I wanted to talk about was what mentioned in the last digest: I feel the same about Gary's management over the years. Like Charles sai= d, Tony Webb is obviously a caring father with his son's best interests at heart, but Numan needs someone to show him the harsh realities of the mu= sic business, not pander to his every whim. I agree that I think this chance= to be something more than he has been over the last 10 years has probably gone. His profile has improved in the last 2-3 years, but the chance to make a big jump has been missed, and I'll be surprised (but I will be pleased) if he has any more real success. This doesn't mean I'll stop supporting him, buying all his music, going to all the gigs, playing his= music to my friends, though. I also don't think that Gary helps himself by insisting on being involve= d in every aspect of everything he does - he might be better off delegatin= g more to professionals and concentrating on doing what he does best, maki= ng music. A producer and other live musicians would help a lot. Not to dilu= te the 'numan'-ness of the music, but to allow him to be more free to be 'numan'. (or something like that :) ) On the other hand, I wouldn't have said that the Forum was a 'debacle'. = The lights were much better than they have been recently (although it must b= e said, not a patch on the past and what is possible now - I saw Underworl= d a couple of months ago, and their lightshow was _phenomonal_), the sound w= as better. Still not great, but better - some songs, like The Sleeproom (hurrah!) were crystal clear, and others like, ohh, to pick some totally= at random, all of Exile and Sacrifice, were muddy and dull sounding. Vocals= and all. I don't know what needs to be done, but I'm not sure whether I = can take another whole album of Exile-style loops. If you listen to the late= st stuff on the Music Line it does sound promising though. Numan himself, w= as, as ever, great - that's really what we all went to see. For all the complaining/disappointment, did anyone _really_ not enjoy themselves? I think we were all too used to seeing 4-5 gigs in a tour, and are becomin= g precious about the 1-2 we are able to see now. Lastly, I don't care at all when the _millenium_ is, but I do care sligh= tly more about the change from 1999 to 2000 (that is slightly more than 'not= at all') - that's the significant time for me. It'll probably just be anoth= er New Year. all the best Phil. P.S. Am I the only one who thinks that 'Prison Moon' is one of the great= est songs ever....? That and 'Warsongs'. (and all of Strange Charm, obviousl= y) :> P.P.S. reading this again, it's mostly coming across as negative. sorry,= I'm usually more positive than this... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:04:08 +1000 From: Bart Tieman Subject: Down In The Park Video To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Content-Type: text/plain Hello all I've got a bit of a curly one that I hope someone out there can shed some light on. Last Saturday on Rage (Aussie music show) they had Marilyn Manson guest programming the videos. They showed a video of DITP that I've never seen before but was done quite well. It used live footage from LO'79 with special effects that were used on the Cars video with a soundtrack from LO'80. Anyone know anything about this clip like when and where it was done? I have to say it is one of my favourite clips. No cringe factor on this one:) Also Fear Factory's Cars has been shown three times on Rage over the last couple of weeks which makes this the biggest TV exposure he has had in Australia since 1980. Bart Numan Down Under Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Down In The Park Video Hello all I've got a bit of a curly one that I = hope someone out there can shed some light on. Last Saturday on Rage = (Aussie music show) they had Marilyn Manson guest programming the = videos. They showed a video of DITP that I've never seen before but was = done quite well. It used live footage from LO'79 with special effects = that were used on the Cars video with a soundtrack from LO'80. Anyone = know anything about this clip like when and where it was done? I have = to say it is one of my favourite clips. No cringe factor on this = one:) Also Fear Factory's Cars has been = shown three times on Rage over the last couple of weeks which makes = this the biggest TV exposure he has had in Australia since = 1980. Bart Numan Down Under ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:26:12 +0100 From: Stephen Cunningham Subject: Elevator music To: "'numan@cs.uwp.edu'" Check this Foo Fighters site for the ultimate in lift muzak.... http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/dcmojhem/index.htm All the best, S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:39:59 EDT From: Cryonicist@aol.com Subject: Gary's career To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I find it interesting that people still debate all the million little things that derailled his career. Although I'm sure they had an effect, does no-one consider that his music changed? After Telekon he no longer had the sound he was known for, so clearly many people lost interest. Going back to that sound would do no good, because New Wave has been dead as a market for well over a decade. As for breaking back into the top, I think his new sound may find a market, but I agree he'll need some very lucky breaks or stronger promotional support. As for the Millenium date, I largely blame the press as I have found that even reporters don't want to understand it, therefore continue feeding the population their kindergarden version of reality. -Martin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:37:39 +0100 (BST) From: "Jon Garland" Subject: Gary at Leics Univ To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In reponse to: >Can anyone confirm, or otherwise, whether dearest Gary did a gig at >Leicester Uni at the beginning of July? >My Dad works there and swears that he saw a poster advertising it in the >union. If he did, then I'm amazed and owe my Dad a pint.!! >Ciao >NickiNu I work at Leicester Uni & haven't seen any posters of Gary at all! If he did play here then it must've been a very very secret gig! On another subject, I'n afraid I think Strange Charm is a load of ARSE - as was a lot of Gary's material from '84-'92. I know it's been said before, but I've noticed an increase in the number of those who defend this period (hello James!). Come on you lot - early Gary great, later Gary great, middle Gary bollocks - it's easy! Glad I've got that off my chest! Cheers Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:57:49 EDT From: Neffuri@aol.com Subject: Gary Numan Digest V1 #555 To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I am not trying to cut on anyone but my opinion on the subject of "burning Cd's" is if you are doing it for yourself of a cd or music you have already purchased its ok, but if you are doing it to give it to someone else you are wrong, because like one fan said earlier its taking money out of Gary Numan's pockets and that is something I HOPE noone here wants to do, this musician is a genius to me and he helped me get through my very young years which were filled with turmoil and angst. On a high note, I was recently in New Orleans and found one I did not previously have, Gary Numan's REMODULATE!!! "the numan chronicles 1984-1995, do not laugh at me please, I know this one is older but I live in a small town and its hard to come by new stuff. I PURCHASED this one I am proud to say and I am listening to it right now. ITS EXCELLENT! GARY NUMAN RULZ!!!! bye Kimberly Acacia Cole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:00:08 PDT From: "Stephen Cunningham" Subject: Millennium To: numan@cs.uwp.edu The year 2001 and every “01” thereafter will NEVER be the celebratory year. Brainwashed or not, it will always be the year of the century that the majority of the people will recognize. Fantasy, maybe. Fun, you bet! Cary Well said, Cary – took the words right out of my mouth. Lighten up, people. Speaking for myself only, I am intelligent enough to understand that 2001 is the true start of the next millennium but, as Cary rightly states, where’s the fun in that?! It’s 2000 when the century flips and the machines may fail. Get in with both boots and boogie! It’s no coincidence that Prince picked on 1999. Yours with a very dirty brain, S. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:24:27 -0800 From: alec way Subject: more martin and numan To: numan@cs.uwp.edu never tried crack, per se, but i have used a crack pipe for sampling something else. oy! i wasn't trying to say anything but it looks like that martin fellow probably is familiar with gary numan and all those nu-moves. lordy-be, jessB! i certainly wasn't saying anything about either one's sexuality. they both make these over-the-top body moves and similar facial expressions EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. i'd missed out on this whole ricky martin thing so i'd never heard that song, the loca song, nor had i seen the video. so, i decided to watch for a minute or so and all the while i was thinking, "i am looking at this former soap opera cheesecake guy who's *now* transformed into a latino explosion heart throb and he's coping some nu-moves here and there. what?!" and i don't think he's failed miserably. looks like he's doing well for himself and i just BET that he knows something about the whole gary numan "trip." see, in my mind, gary numan's stage presense, though very unique--and obviously the body language of a "sensual being"--is informed JUST A TOUCH by kraftwerk, freddie mercury, david bowie and mick jagger all of whom had/have a very sensual as well as shamanic way they present themselves. lovingly, alec > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:13:05 -0400 (EDT) > From: Jessica Bastion > Subject: replies to last digest... > To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > >Subject: Ricky Martin > >To: numan@cs.uwp.edu > > WHAT KIND OF CRACK ARE YOU SMOKING??????????? > Ricky Martin could never be even close to Gary Numan, and any attempt to > be like Gary would fail miserably. Gary is too unique...Ricky is horribly > cliche. Ricky is trying to be sexy, sensual with his image (or his make-up > artist's created image) Gary's music, his lyrics (which are obviously > personal) his sound are all sensual and sexy, which in turn makes him a > sensual being. Their is nothing cliche or created-by-industry in Gary. > > That's the long-winded version of "my two cents"...sorry if I've > offended...but I had to speak my mind! > > jessB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:03:01 +0100 From: "paul" Subject: new anger To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi,to all numan fans,looking for a huge favour,does anyone know if a cd = single new anger is still obtainable anywhere,i had this but it has been = damaged . the reason i would like to replace this is because of the b side " i = don't believe" if antone is in the know please give me a shout. cheers . paul. Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi,to all numan fans,looking for a huge = favour,does=20 anyone know if a cd single new anger is still obtainable anywhere,i had = this but=20 it has been damaged . the reason i would like to replace this = is because=20 of the b side " i don't believe" if antone is in the know please give me = a=20 shout. cheers = . =20 paul. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:26:23 +0200 From: "Seth" Subject: New email adress To: "Gary Numan" Hello, can you change my email adress: the new one is: seth@muenster.de Thank you very much Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:01:47 +0100 From: "Antonio" Subject: nu-milennium stuff To: "Gary Numan" joey wrote, >Audiences in 1967, as they lined up to see the show, understood that >2001 was the first year of the new century (and new millenium). Have >we gotten dumber in 32 years? :-) While that may be true, I am still looking forward to getting completely rat arsed as usual on new years eve. Whether 2000 is the first year of the new milennium or not does not matter. What matters is, the party. And so long as I have beer, sex, chips and gravy, all set to a Numan soundtrack, I couldn't care less. At the stroke of midnight, I won't have a clue what the year is anyway! Antonio, proud member of the 'who gives a toss - pass me the vodka' society. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:46:23 EDT From: Broso@aol.com Subject: Numallenium + management To: numan@cs.uwp.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:50:23 EDT From: Broso@aol.com Subject: Numallenium + management To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Charles! You=B4re absolutely right! But then - that=B4s only one side of the story. I= t=B4s=20 not all Tony=B4s fault - isn=B4t it? If you=B4re surrounded by the wrong peo= ple=20 it=B4s your fault - not that of those people. So if Mr. Numan Jr. prefers to=20 trust only his Mom&Dad and stares down everyone who slightly criticizes him = -=20 he himself is completely responsible for the mess he=B4s in. Boris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:18:13 -0700 From: "Randy W" Subject: Numan Newsgroup To: "Numan Newsletter" Just to remind everybody, there is a Numan newsgroup at uwp.maillist.numan Come share your thoughts. Randy Wentzel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:25:48 PDT From: "Willow ." Subject: numillenium To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hey now, I'm a 30 yr old american who's been listening to Numan for 17 or 18 years, I've also lurked off and on for the last few years. I find it sad that my first post has absolutely nothing to do with Numan, but one can only be called stupid and illogical for so long. Regarding this millenium thing; are you all daft? Use some of the logic and mathematics you've been touting. I'll use the example of a baby to show you what i mean: when a baby is born, from its first day to it's 365th (or so) day is its 1st year; got that? 1st year. from 1 to 2 is its 2nd year. Same thing with the millenium; from january 1st 2000 to december 31 2000 is the first year of the new millenium, from 2001 to 2002 is the second millenium. I'm sure this won't convince you and i'm sure you won't convince me, so why not let's chill out and party like it's 1999 this december 31st:-) BTW I finally after all these long years of yearning got to see Mr Numan perform live in concert. it was the Seattle show, and it reaffirmed my faith in the man. regardless of any production or promotional problems/questions the man can definitely put on a show, and that for me is what it is all about. Peace, Willow kundalinitheatre@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:32:54 -0400 From: "Ken" Subject: Piracy To: "Numan Digest" Hello! Just a few rants from The Numaniac! >From Digest #555: > All I know is that if I choose to pay 25-30 bucks for >a CD, & a friend has a CD recorder (& that's why they sell those by the >way, it's for recording CD's) then I will let that friend make a copy, They sell those to record CD's, but not to illegally reproduce copyrighted material. >I hope >you're aware that even if you were to copy one song off a CD onto a >cassette, you're still pirating Sure. But putting a few songs on cassette for a friend in hopes of turning him or her in to a fan is a LONG way from duplicating an entire album...EVEN DOWN TO THE COVER! I am guilty of taping CD's for MY OWN PERSONAL USE. I buy the CD, tape it and use the tape in my car. I do this because Numan cassettes are nearly impossible to find where I live, I own only three. Piracy hurts a lot of people! It doesn't just take money out of Gary Numan's pocket (who, by the way, is NOT rich). It hurts all those involved in the sales of albums for their livelihood. It even hurts our friend Rod who does the cover art. >As far as giving rich musicians money... So I guess it's ok to steal from people who have more than you? Not only that, you're NOT GIVING your money to musicians (and all the others involved), you're purchasing their product. Pepsi has a lot more money than Gary Numan. Go steal a Pepsi. What's the difference? Sincerely, Ken "The Numaniac Bryant" I guess we ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:20:05 -0500 From: "Paddy" Subject: pirating/guilt To: "Numanlist" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Um, I haven't and don't think I shall ever copy a cd to a cd (except = anything labeled Microsoft : ) ). I have a burner here in my place, and = although I have made comp cd's for myself, I don't ever see myself = duping an entire cd (down to the cover artwork) for a friend who might = be interested in Numan or anyone else. In Numan's case (or that of many = independent bands, who may not be as hot as Ricky whassisname), I think = he needs to sell as many units as possible here in the states to justify = further releases (thereby keeping MY costs down - and, of course, = furthering the program). Granted, I can't say I haven't made comp tapes for people, but I usually = put all kinds of shit on there. I sort of consider giving someone a song = or two more of a whetting of the appetite than simply duping the whole = LP. So, sure, I am just as guilty of copying as anyone else, but I still = found it kind of blatant to come out and say "I am making an illegal = copy and I need the original artwork". We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "Smart"? www.kcnet.com/~paddygav/images.html Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Um, I haven't and don't think I = shall ever copy=20 a cd to a cd (except anything labeled Microsoft : ) ). I have a = burner=20 here in my place, and although I have made comp cd's for myself, I don't = ever=20 see myself duping an entire cd (down to the cover artwork) for a friend = who=20 might be interested in Numan or anyone else. In Numan's case (or that of = many=20 independent bands, who may not be as hot as Ricky whassisname), I think = he needs=20 to sell as many units as possible here in the states to justify further = releases=20 (thereby keeping MY costs down - and, of course, furthering the=20 program). Granted, I = can't say I=20 haven't made comp tapes for people, but I usually put all kinds of shit = on=20 there. I sort of consider giving someone a song or two more of a = whetting of the=20 appetite than simply duping the whole LP. So, sure, I am = just as=20 guilty of copying as anyone else, but I still found it kind of blatant = to come=20 out and say "I am making an illegal copy and I need the original=20 artwork". We have enough youth. How = about a fountain=20 of "Smart"? www.kcnet.com/~paddyga= v/images.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:36:11 -0400 From: dagonet@netwide.net (Don McCrum) Subject: Sacrifice/ Exile/ Bootlegs/ etc.... To: Gary Numan List Ken Bryant wrote: > I loved Exile when it first came out, but now I can take it > or leave it. I think Sacrifice is the better of the two. Anyone else > feel this way? I was lucky enough to have seen GN when I had enough money to see him 3 times in 5 days and still plop down $50 +/- for two copies of Dawn and a CD single of Magic. The extra copy of Dawn was for friends I knew would (eventually) pay me back for it if they liked it. If not, I knew I could find a friend who'd fork over dough for it. If not, I would have a spare for when I eventually step or scratch the first one.... If I hadn't had the money, I would have made a tape of a few songs, and my friends would have dug the CD out of the internet.... (Indirect answer to the Bootlegging/ copies for friends dilemma....) I've always thought comparing CDs is a little...strange. I mean, I have a fairly complete nin collection collection, but it will probably be a rare day in hell when Pretty Hate Machine is in the shuffler at the same as Sacrifice. Both deal with the "underside/ dark/ etc..." side of life, but Sacrifice has a little more interwoven hope in it. Pretty Hate Machine seems fairly devoid of hope (at least to me).... The standard 5 CDs in the shuffler: Danielle Dax: Dark_Adapted_Eye U2: The_Joshua_Tree SoM: A_Slight_Case_of_Overbombing Billy Idol: Cyberpunk And, of course... Gary Numan: Dawn (would be Sacrifice -- for "Play Like God" -- but I loaned it to my fiance, until I can afford to buy her one, or she moves in, whichever comes first....) All of the above (including Exile) seem to place a person, a romantic person, in a cynical/ jaded/ evil world where romance is dead, but they fight like hell to keep themselves (and romance and humanity, et al) alive.... All of Gary's albums seem to be that way. (At least to me.) Then again, I'm a cynical romantic stuck in an over-efficient world.... D (Oh my god -- two replies in one digest.... ^_^) -- with A. embossed upon my hands, all I touch becomes sacred http://www.netwide.net/users/dagonet/ ICQ #12788034/ AIM: MOAPOG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:36:40 -0400 From: "Kev" Subject: The Aircrash Bureau/Reissues Galore To: "Gary Numan" I have not posted to the list in a while, forgive the two topics together. 1. The Aircrash Bureau - Odd this thing with JFK Jr. - why would he go into that type of flight situation with that little experience? This reminds me of Gary's close call (when was that, 1983?) Celebrities are drawn to flight a lot for some reason. I know Gary's 'bug' was a pure love for flying (so is John Travolta's) - but it appears John-John's motivation was more one of convenience and escape from the paparazzi. BTW - I know the Brits are taking this very seriously; the best coverage on the web is at http://www.msnbc.com. My 10 year old is devastated - I wouldn't think he would even know who JFK Jr. was...he also got his first Numan CD today (Pleasure Principle). 2. Reissues galore - I cannot believe the amount of material out there right now on Gary. I searched amazon.com and found over 40 matches for Gary. A lot of stuff I do not have . I did get the first three reissues - I think the Replicas piece is my favorite. It was fantastic to see all my singles from 1980 lumped in with Telekon - my piano version of "Down in the Park" on 45 skipped - it is excellent on the CD. With all the liner notes, pictures, and extra tracks, I do not know for the life of me why anyone would be disappointed with these releases. Now with all this notoriety returning with Fear Factory's "Cars", Gary has to be in a prime position to return to the states on his next tour. If we could just get MTV to play some of his stuff... -Kev http://www.kevworks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:22:40 +0100 From: Tom Gorham Subject: The piracy issue To: "Gary Numan" doublephones@webtv.net (Tommy) said: >Why don't you people leave Jenny alone & get a life? I hope >you're aware that even if you were to copy one song off a cd onto a >cassette, you're still pirating. I'm also sure that you are the same >people who have dubbed vhs movies before, so maybe you should practice >what you preach. All I know is that if I choose to pay 25-30 bucks for >a cd, & a friend has a cd recorder (& that's why they sell those by the >way, it's for recording cd's) then i will let that friend make a copy, >that's what friends are for. [snip] > You people must all be saints or something or just scared >that Gary is gonna knock on your door one day, & kick your asses for >burning a cd. You all have dubbed something before, so don't bother >lying about never doing it, & stop acting like all of you go by every >rule in the book of life. Tommy, Your pedantry over the millennium issue was off-topic and tedious; this posting merely shows your lack of basic morals (although given that the millennium is supposed to represent 2000 years of Christianity, it does display tremendous irony). For the record: Jenny was asking us to send her copies of the "sacrafice" (sic) and "exile" covers, so that she could burn a CD for her friend. Let's leave aside the legal implications of this for a moment. How exactly is creating an exact replica (if you'll pardon the pun) of a Numan CD going to get this guy into Numan? Even if he loves it and wants more CDs, you can bet his first course of action won't be to go into the shops and buy the thing. It will be to call up his friend Jenny and ask her to burn another CD for him. After all, why buy when you can get an identical product for next to nothing? 'What's wrong with that?' you're probably asking. Here's what, Tommy, as you're obviously too slow-witted to work it out for yourself: Numan won't get the royalties he deserves. His record company won't receive the revenue that might make the difference between extending Numan's contract or not. The record shop won't sell a Numan CD =AD and how many will they subsequently order? =AD and Numan stands no chance of getting into the charts. And remember that Jenny didn't make clear if even she had the originals of the albums themselves. If she did, then surely it would have been easier to scan in the cover herself, or get one of her friends to do it? How many times are those CDs going to be re-burned before you think that something stinks? If you're happy with that, fine. Pirate away. No-one's going to call the cops, and to be honest it happens so often that no-one thinks very much of it. But it does strike me as a bit much that Jenny can come onto the mailing list and ask people to do the dirty work for her. Being a pirate is one thing, expecting 'friends' to 'help her out' by ripping off the very guy that they're trying to support is another. Just because a lot of people make copies on tape doesn't make it somehow right. But it's arguable that using a cassette, which provides a noticeably poorer copy of the music and has a comparitively short life, is less damaging than burning a CD with every intention of making it look as much like the original as possible. >As far as giving rich musicians money, I >have given Numan plenty, & i don't think burning a cd or 2 is a big >deal. if I paid for it, I can do a friend a favor such as Jenny is >trying to do. Nice to know you make the rules about what is and what isn't a big deal. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were the one entitled to the royalties. I wonder if your employer adopts the same policy as you: 'Oh we've given Tommy quite a lot of money over the years, let's stop paying him.' I suspect you'd whine away if that happened. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:05:28 EDT From: Turdmaster@aol.com Subject: this & that To: numan@cs.uwp.edu In a message dated 7/15/99 2:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, numan@cs.uwp.edu writes: << Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 04:16:25 -0400 (EDT) From: doublephones@webtv.net (Tommy) Subject: this & that To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Okay, I am also going to party on new year's as if it were any other, but when i hear people swear that 2000 is the new millennium, it bothers me a bit to think wow, how dumb are these people? Unless the lack of logic is generic, there's no excuse. Anyway, on to this Jenny pirate thing. Why don't you people leave Jenny alone & get a life? I hope you're aware that even if you were to copy one song off a cd onto a cassette, you're still pirating. I'm also sure that you are the same people who have dubbed vhs movies before, so maybe you should practice what you preach. All I know is that if I choose to pay 25-30 bucks for a cd, & a friend has a cd recorder (& that's why they sell those by the way, it's for recording cd's) then i will let that friend make a copy, that's what friends are for. As far as giving rich musicians money, I have given Numan plenty, & i don't think burning a cd or 2 is a big deal. if I paid for it, I can do a friend a favor such as Jenny is trying to do. You people must all be saints or something or just scared that Gary is gonna knock on your door one day, & kick your asses for burning a cd. You all have dubbed something before, so don't bother lying about never doing it, & stop acting like all of you go by every rule in the book of life. >> Amen to that. People should stop being hypocrites. And why try being saints and consciences about a cd. Is it killing anybody? NO. Is someone's living going to be destroyed? NO. Is it a Columbine shooting? NO. Instead of trying to be guilty consciences and voices of reason, why not try being mentors, or community crime activists and try getting kids to stop committing crimes. You seem more worried about "protecting Gary" than other, and MORE important issues. I could care less about people copying cd's for a friend. She isn't making any money off of this. That in essence is what you "moralists" are all complaining about. She isn't off to make money. She is losing. Gary isn't losing. I guess the only thing that Gary himself has said not to like is posting mp3 files on the net. Those have potential to reach hundreds even thousands of people. There, he could lose money. That is what you, if you are going to, should worry about. I am impressed that Jenny would go out to such lengths to present a nice cd to her friends. It seems she takes pride in presenting a nice cd, with original artwork, just like a professional. A better job than say the horrendous cover of the re-issue of "The Fury" from Cleo. What is up with that font? Seems like she is trying to make this cd presented as best she can. Just like someone recording a cassette and trying to reproduce the artwork. Is it a crime to see the original Telekon cassette for $3 used, but they decide to record it off the cd to cassette themself? Many people record onto cassette. Are you people flaming them? Even at one point, Derek Langsford even said he recorded some "compilation" cassettes for himself. Did you people flame him, I don't remember so. Sure, you might bring up the point it is on cd. SAME THING. Recording from one product to another medium (whether it be vinyl to cassette, cd to cassette, cd to cd, etc...) is the same thing. Different qualities, but in essence the same thing. Besides, why are you defending Gary's honor by saying you refuse to contribute to this crime, and flaming Jenny for a fabulous job of this copy? Gary isn't losing money now. We're talking big bucks like 100s or 1000s of copies by a bootleg operation. That's what Gary disapproves. Like he said before, he's in this thing for the money, like most other artists are. Do you think he would care if you were losing money? Maybe he would say "too bad, sorry" but he could care less about it. One copy will not hurt, and frankly he could care less. So why should you care? Leave Jenny alone. She is just harmlessly doing a favor for a friend, sure beyond the call of duty, but a very commendable job. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:06:08 +0100 From: "Andy Boucher" Subject: Tony To: "numan" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He's back to the same position as he was in the early 90s. Nice one. Charles Charles. I have to say, I completely agree with you. No way was Tony = going to say 'no' to Gary when he'd just bought a working class family = an untold fortune. I mean, I'm sure they're all very nice, but for God's = sake, your dad as manager, your mum on make-up, your brother on pretend = saxophone, your wife on stencils, your auntie on washboard, your nephew = on banjo....=20 I just hope you're wrong about him completely blowing it again. I guess = it's simple economics. Gary doesn't make (comparatively much) money, = hence no decent manager or label wants him. Stark truth, I'm afraid. Despite all of this, I still love (most of) his music. Just why am I = always left thinking 'If only'?=20 If only he had realised at the time just how brilliant his first three = albums were. " he hadn't gone for the Berserker / Warriors / Fury images. = People LAUGHED, Gary. They laughed so loud they couldn't hear the music, = which was a shame. =20 " he hadn't worked with someone from Shakatak. SHAKATAK, for = Christ's sake. " Bill Nelson had said 'No, I'm producing Warriors - shut the = **** up'. Techno Army drank down my pub. It's all so bloody sad, because as someone else said, he could have been = a contender... Andy. =20 =20 =20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He's back to the same position as he was in the = early 90s.=20 Nice one. Charles Charles. I have to say, I completely agree with you. = No way=20 was Tony going to say 'no' to Gary when he'd just bought a working = class=20 family an untold fortune. I mean, I'm sure they're all very nice, but = for God's=20 sake, your dad as manager, your mum on make-up, your brother on pretend=20 saxophone, your wife on stencils, your auntie on washboard, your nephew = on=20 banjo.... I just hope you're wrong about him completely = blowing it=20 again. I guess it's simple economics. Gary doesn't make (comparatively = much)=20 money, hence no decent manager or label wants him. Stark truth, I'm=20 afraid. Despite all of this, I still love (most of) his = music. Just=20 why am I always left thinking 'If only'? If only he had realised at the time just how = brilliant his=20 first three albums were. " he = hadn't gone for=20 the Berserker / Warriors / Fury images. People LAUGHED, Gary. They = laughed so=20 loud they couldn't hear the music, which was a = shame. " he = hadn't worked=20 with someone from Shakatak. SHAKATAK, for Christ's sake. " Bill Nelson = had said=20 'No, I'm producing Warriors - shut the **** up'. = Techno Army=20 drank down my pub. It's all so bloody sad, because as someone else = said, he could=20 have been a contender... Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 22:10:28 -0700 From: Derek Langsford Subject: Upcoming new releases To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Alien 2 includes details of new releases: EMI will release remastered versions of Metal Rhythm, Outland and Skin Mechanic August 23 in the UK. Abbey Road are mreastering them. The Eagle compilation "New Dreams for Old" will be a sort of follow-up to Premier Hits using 7" versions, some new to CD, plus the 98 versions of Metal, DITP, and Voix. Final track selection is on hold due to the mess-up on the rights to the IRS albums. Some singles will be ommitted notably Machine & Soul and This is Love I believe but don't quote me on that. The 7" of NTFLT is listed - does this mean Gary is softening his opposition to the Bill Sharpe lyrics? This release will still mean a remastered album version of COTD has not been issued by Eagle Remasters of Dance and The Plan should be available from BB in August. So lotsa stuff happening between now and the new album, now slated for March 2000 release with Gary expecting to do a lot of touring worldwide after that to promote the album. Not in Alien, but a rumour apparently flaoting around: Eagle are preparing a boxed set of remastered live albums (presumably White Noise, Ghost, Dream Corrosion, Dark Light). Not the most exciting news IMO, but it would be nice to have a decent sounding Dream Corrosion album. And what if they put in a Sacrifice or Exile Tour live set? - that might make it worth the price. They'd have to keep the price down even for 8 or more discs, to have any chance of selling a reasonable number of sets. How long before a DVD boxed set of live shows :-) ? I'd like to see the Extended albums remastered - the difference in the Numa extended berserker and the remastered Eagle Berserker CDs is signficant, and The Fury and Sacrifice need cleaning up too. We should consider ourselves lucky that there is even a possibility these albums might get remastered. With EMI's remastering, all Gary's studio back catalogue will be remastered and reissued by mid 2000. I remember back in 1985, I wondered if any Numan albums would ever make it to CD. That was almost 15 years ago. Can't believe I've been collecting CDs that long. Cheers, Derek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:03:10 +0400 From: "Peter Enright esq." Subject: Yeltsin innocent? To: "Numan Digest" Noomunoidz, Thought you might find this amusing: Last week I edited a 7 minute documentary story for Dutch TV (Twee Vandaag - or 2nd. Channel) on the so-called "Yeltsin" family - the cronies he's connected to and his family members who hold high positions in wealthy companies (nepotism is rife here) - anyway we needed some spooky music so I chose the intro from "Innocence Bleeding" (Exile) which was used over slo-mo shots of Yeltsin hugging his daughters. Needless to say the effect was VERY amusing and weird, but it had the intended effect of making ol' Boris look suitably sinister ... This isn't the first time I've used Numan's music for news and documentary stories, but this time I remembered to inform you. Also I saw "The Mummy" last week and boy that would have been perfect for a Numan soundtrack! These big budget producers really do have their heads wedged firmly up their arses ... TikTokMan Moscow A proud member of ... Jesus I've forgotten! ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** _______________________________________________________________________ _____ ____ ____ _____ _____ / \ | | / \ / \ / \ / \ | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | G | | A | | | R | | Y | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | N | E | W | S |=====| | | | | | | | & | | | | | | | \_____/ I | N | F | O | | | | is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: numan@cs.uwp.edu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu ----------------- The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Datta Production and Development, 905 97th Street, Kenosha, WI 53143 USA datta@cs.uwp.edu and computer resources courtesy of University of Wisconsin-Parkside and Datta Production and Development. 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