Gary Numan Digest Sun, 21 Nov 99 Volume 1 : Issue 592 Today's Topics: Academy boredom. Amex and other crap am I a fake of the man, and are you of me? Hello, all... Long lost file.. Manchester review No, he really DOES talk a lot about god Numan Pile on Whinger-boy! Reviews/Whingers The Acadamy The Plan The Rhythm of the Evening we can fly ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:40:10 +0000 From: Philip Lindsay Subject: Academy boredom. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I don,t post often, but last week,s Academy show has forced me to ) I,m feeling like my enjoyment of things Numan is in question. The thing is, after about 30 mins of the gig (I won,t even mention the support, except to say the words +NIN wannabes, ) v. poor) I was getting bored. I,m never bored at Numan gigs. Now after 25 or so you,d perhaps expect a little malaise, but I found myself reacting really badly to Noise Noise, Me, I Disconnect From You. Down in the Park, Cars, Are Friends Electric?, dull, dull, dull. I,ve heard them too many times before, it,s like he,s stopped developing them for live work, sticking to the same old 3-4 year old versions. Exile, it just doesn,t do it for me live, and not really that much on CD. I guess my main problem is that there was nothing new. I know it takes time to rehearse, but he didn,t even repeat the Strange Charm stuff he did in London last time (Sleeproom? ). The times I perked up a bit were Remind Me To Smile, Remember I was Vapour (with guitar person playing bass, much better than Ade Orange) and a Seed of a Lie, because they were relatively new live. I almost hate myself for becoming one of the 'nothing-good-after-Telekon, crowd, because that,s what it feels like. After about 50 minutes I went for a walk around to see if I could find a more interesting view, but to no avail. Standing at the back of the hall I thought I heard a song I didn,t know! Turned out to be We are Glass. : -( I cut my losses and went home, feeling a bit dispirited. I,ve never left any gig before it,s finished. And I couldn,t bring myself to listen to any Numan on the way back either. As I drove, it suddenly hit me that I think Gary,s lost some of the inspiration he had. Listening to the work-in-progress on the Music line leaves me cold, and Exile did the same. I can go back and listen to any of the middle years albums (from I, Assassin to Strange Charm, OK James?) and they strike me as being clever, interesting, well constructed, new, atmospheric, experimental, and most of all, inspired. From Metal Rhythm on (and don,t get me wrong, I like MR a lot), with a blip for Sacrifice, I feel the music has been getting less of all the above things. Too formulaic, +got to include a ballad, switch to ballad piano sound,. I remember reading an interview where Gary said something like +When I listen to a song like Berserker, I,m proud that something as clever as that has come from me,. I agree with that. I wouldn,t agree if he,d said it about Exile. When I,ve heard Gary talking about songwriting recently it,s sounded like a mechanical process, rather than an artistic endeavour. I think one of his problems is his insistence on doing _everything_ himself. He needs input from others to break out from his rut. He needs a great bass player, and he does need a backing vocalist (but a good one), he needs to write some half decent lyrics for a change, he needs a producer with interesting ideas to bring the best out of him. If he really wants more success, and I,m starting to question that as well, he has to sort himself out, the Academy gig was too much like a bunch of old friends gathered round an old piano to sing along to the old songs. (Another Gary was in the headlines that day too, Glitter ) we don, t want our Gary to turn into a vaudeville sideshow act like that). Please flame me, argue with me, and show me that I,m wrong. I hope I am, but if it doesn,t improve I,m going to stop going to the gigs. I,ll buy the records in the vain hope that they,ll get better, though. All the best, Phil. P.S. I know this is a bit long, but I couldn,t condense it any more and make sense. Also apologies if this comes out strangely formatted, I,m having trouble with my mail software. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:24:57 -0500 From: Matthew Roberts Subject: Amex and other crap To: Gary Numan "We all realised it was highly likely that this was coincidence. But it is also likely that it isn't coincidence." Blimey, is that possible? Aren't they mutually exclusive. I suppose by mangling the english language, you COULD argue it isn't logically contadictory, but no one would actually say this in conversation. Well obviously they might!! It would certainly qualify for Private Eye's "Coleman Balls" column. Anyway, my point... if the Amex card says "L.A. Webb", then it is obvious= ly no reference to Gary - just one of those rather dull coincidences. Makes the alleged links between Kennedy's and Lincoln's assassinations seem almost interesting. However, if you still cling to the belief that it mig= ht be meaningful, I suggest you read "The Bible Code". You'll probably belie= ve that too. Good to hear Gary getting arsey with the doubters in our ranks (see NuWor= ld News for details). I wonder if I qualify? Anyway, it's an improvement on him treating us like children (which I guess we once were). While I'm at it, here is my recent top 8: Filter - Title Of Record - Simple but effective New Radicals - Maybe You've Been... - Who'd have guessed? Supergrass - Supergrass - Just good songs Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions... - I'm a slow learner. Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile - The emporer's new clothes? My Ruin - Speak And Destroy - Nasty bitch Bush - The Science Of Things - Techno Grunge David Bowie - hours - 2 cutting edge albums then this. What a pity db Only 89 days until the new Smashing Pumpkins album. Only 353 until the ne= w Numan album. Matthew Roberts ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:43:16 -0600 From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley Subject: am I a fake of the man, and are you of me? To: Phil Marsh , Jim Collins > wouldn't you rather just d/l the ones you want off a website than pay > for a CD? Seems rather cool to have 1 site on the Numan Network > devoted to fan covers, don'tcha think??? An excellent idea! Of course, some of us would like to have a cd format as well, so that, whenever we might want to hear whatever rendition, we don't have to fire up the computer, wait for it to be up and running, execute the Netscape Navigator, wait for that program to get up, dial a connection hoping the server hasn't gone down, connect to the web site, wait for that to come up, select whichever rendition, wait for however many hours for it to download, then listen to it on whatever equipment we have hooked up to the computer. Some of us would rather just pop in a cd. > ...(I'm still working out the legal aspects)... Wait a minute, Jim, just create the thing as a bootleg. SCREW the legalities. Copy it at home in a cottage industry, and charge whatever you need to recoup the costs and compensate the artists. I mean, how widely marketable are we expecting this project to be? I think we can count on it reaching us, the serious fans, and that's about it. So why not market it directly as a boot? Hey, no need to be so delicate in our tread. I've seen plenty of bootlegs for sale, right out in the open, on eBay even! "But it's all just a thought, so here are mine." lots of love, Benjamin Iglar-Mobley http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley (proud member of Boys Like Us) * * * "New ways, new ways I dream of wires" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 05:36:45 MST From: "Chris Munroe" Subject: Hello, all... To: numan@cs.uwp.edu my name is chris, i'm from canada, i've just joined the list and, first and formost, I CAN'T FIND EXILE OR SACRIFICE ON CASSETTE IN THE CITY IN WHICH I LIVE!!! i refuse to abandon the technology in favour of CD's as i don't have the cash to replace 450 albums and it's starting to stress me. anyone able to suggest anything? Chris "the arrogent, posturing buddha" munroe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:57:45 EST From: KethScott@aol.com Subject: Long lost file.. To: numan@cs.uwp.edu Hello Everyone! Was wondering if anyone could help me relocate a file I lost in a hard drive (ahem) PROBLEM. It was a fan remake of Jo the Waiter with a female singer. There were actually two of versions. Does anyone have these or a link to them? Would greatly appreciate it! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:15:55 GMT From: "James Chapman" Subject: Manchester review To: numan@cs.uwp.edu This was my second Numan concert, the first being the one-off in London earlier this year. I have to say overall, Manchester was better. Not as far to travel, for a start. I met up with many of the same people I saw at London in The Revolution Vodka Bar aruond 6ish (I was nowhere near as nervous this time round) and finally made it in around 8ish. I missed the support band due to looking for certain people but I thought they weren't very good from the bits I heard. I eventually got a position in the right hand side of the hall about halfway back. Gary came on a bit late, and the highlights were: Me! I Disconnect From You totally rocked. I Dream Of Wires flowed better than on Dark Light (first time live for 5 years) Remember I Was Vapour, the big surprise of the night. Metal - the intro has such an impact AFE - the intro completely fooled me. I love it when that happens, it always leaves me trying to guess the song until the vocal starts. I Die: You Die at the end - I always think this is the best song to finish. Only 3 songs off Exile was fine by me - they don't really send the crowd wild like many of the oldies do. All in all there were 10 songs which I hadn't seen Gary do live before, so it was good value for money. Some minor disappointments: The venue was flat so I couldn't really see very well only being 5'9". Cars sounded tired. DITP is a song I'm getting a bit sick of to be honest. The original and the early live versions were great but I used the opportunity to go for a piss :-) I enjoyed them first time round but I get the feeling I'll easily get bored of these two. At least Absolution didn't get played, I HATE that song! So overall an improvement on London. It lacked the initial impact of seeing Gary live for the first time, but the setlist was more siuted to my particular tastes - even though he dropped the song off Strange Charm :-). Cheers James Chapman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:21:01 -0800 From: Ian David Golder Subject: No, he really DOES talk a lot about god To: numan@cs.uwp.edu I don't want to pour gasoline on this spark in the digest, and let me preface this by saying Matthew Roberts is one of my favorite posters, and also that I believe that Gary Numan is indeed an athiest, and that maybe I am too. Or not. But Numan really does mention god a lot, you know? Rather than just ignoring the issue entirely, or (my favorite) those cutting drive-by mentions like "there is no god, so pray to me." Sometimes Numan's lyrics make me feel like I'm reading a debate between Origen and Celsus! Commments? Questions? Spam about pornographic Websites? I can be reached at iangd@wenet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:17:53 +1100 From: "Jason Hart" Subject: Numan To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonder whats the chat group all about?. Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonder whats the chat group all=20 about?. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:57:50 -0700 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Pile on Whinger-boy! To: "numan@cs.uwp.edu" (rant mode ON) Y'all remember the various debates we've had in the past, about overly-critical fans not being "real" fans? I fell out of my chair laughing after reading this quote on NuWorld, written by The Man hisself: "I did notice that the same old whingers have turned up on the same old web sites with the same old complaints about the gig. I'd be really grateful if you irritating little handful became fans of someone else as you're getting on my nerves" I know that this is not going to be the most ingratiating thing Gary's ever said, and indeed it may cost him some fans. Nevertheless, I'm sure as hell glad he said it - and I heartily endorse it. Hey, whinger-boy and whinger-girl! Go find somebody else to pile on! There are a small group of people, who hang out here in the Digest and/or on the AFE UBB system (and other places), who are constantly moaning, bitching and complaining about this concert or that album or whatever. You know who you are, and YOU are who Gary's talking about here. I and many others have been saying the same thing for years, and it sure is nice to see Gary taking the VERY controversial position of agreeing with this position. A fan is: "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast." I put it to you thus: you are not fans. And that makes me wonder... just why you're here at all. Low self-esteem, maybe? It is one thing to be critical. It is quite another to be so freakin' negative that you come off sounding like an anti-fan... some weird Bowieoid come to wreak a little havoc two decades after "the incident". Hell, I've said a few critical things about Gary Numan myself, but usually when I do I try to do it in a constructive way, or at least shrug it off with the attitude, "hey, nobody's perfect". Geez, I know *I'M* far from perfect, and I certainly don't expect Gary to be. Gary's "a package deal" and I accept him not only for his tremendous brilliance, but for his flaws as well. Some of them are actually quite endearing, ie: buggering up lyrics at live shows, etc. But it seems like the "whingers" do expect perfection, and get damned annoyed when Gary doesn't deliver. To you I say: "go ye forth and fornicate". Or if you prefer a more Americanized version, try this: "get bent!" This has been going on for so long now that Gary Numan has finally PUBLICLY expressed his frustration with these so-called fans. Name me another artist who's felt the need to do this. It's bad enough that fishhacks are saying that they'd rather go flying in a light plane with Gary while he sings his greatest hits over the intercom than ever listen to a particular Marilyn Manson album... but he's also got a group of alleged FANS, who've been around the Numan scene for years, saying things as bad or worse. Gary's far from perfect. But give the man, and the rest of us, a break. The next time you feel the deep urge to slag him for less-than-stellar sound at a gig, or a lack of new songs at said gig, or whatever is goring your ox this particular week, do us all a favour and shut the fuck up, ok? I for one want to see Gary continuing to record and perform well into the next century - I do NOT want to see him become so frustrated at what his OWN FANS ARE SAYING ABOUT HIM that he packs it in. The man has *FEELINGS*, people! Treat him with a bit of respect, at the very least. PS --> Lest this message be misconstrued, I feel compelled to note that this is not a criticism of Rob Eggleston and/or the AFE website. Indeed, Rob's AFE system is merely the vehicle delivering the message, and I vigourously support Rob's position that he will continue to print all reviews positive and negative (heck, I've got a few negative reviews on my own site). Nor do I advocate any sort of censorship other than SELF-censorship. Gary reads a lot of these reviews: let's have a bit of respect for another fellow human being, ok? (rant mode OFF) / From the messy desktop of Joey Lindstrom / Visit The NuServer! http://www.GaryNumanFan.NU / Visit The Webb! http://webb.GaryNumanFan.NU / / A wise man should be prepared to abandon his baggage at any time. / -- Daniel Boone Davis, "The Door Into Summer" / (Robert Heinlein) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:12:57 +1300 From: "D & J Hall" Subject: Reviews/Whingers To: "Gary Numan" Firstly I'd like to remind certain list members how f*cking lucky they are by being able to see Gary live. It's not that easy when you live 12,000 miles away. Secondly, to Paddy Vickers - Thanks for the review, I wish I had the money to be there, Thirdly to Jon Garland, I hope you have read Gary's own remarks: "Actually, I did notice that the same old whingers have turned up on the same old web sites with the same old complaints about the gig. I'd be really grateful if you irritating little handful became fans of someone else as you're getting on my nerves. To the other several thousand or so, thanks again. I genuinely appreciate your support and look forward to seeing you all again next year." (NuWorld) Just thinking that I come from the same town as you (taken from your e-addy) makes me cold. Living in a country foreign to my birth and being labelled a "Whinging POM" has, at times, caused me distress. Reading your post makes me realise that these stereotypes are not entirely without justification. When you can give to others in the same, or equivalent, manner as Gary does, then, and only then, will I treat your comments with respect. Until then CUT YOUR WHINGING (------------------------ expletives deleted). Kindest etc Darren (Damn, I wish I could've been there) Hall. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:20:43 +0000 From: richard easton Subject: The Acadamy To: Gary Numan Numan was excellent!! It's all down to opinion. I personally thought he was superb! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:17:52 -0000 From: "DAVID DALTON" Subject: The Plan To: Since Gary's album The Plan is under discussion at the moment, does anybody know how this album got its name? I have sometimes wondered if the name was thought up by Gary or by Beggars Banquet, and why this name was chosen. And while on this subject, am I right in thinking that in the photo on the sleeve of Gary his hair has been retouched after the photo was taken? David Dalton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:24:01 -0500 From: "Michael J. Damrath" Subject: The Rhythm of the Evening To: Gary Numan > > "these boys of pleasure are only faggots" ;p > Hey Jon, I hate to nit-pick, but if you're going to put something in "quotes", then at least get the quote right. The line from 'The Rhythm of the Evening' that you butchered actually goes: "These boys of pleasure are nothing more than faggots." Curious line though. I think it might be Gary's only blatantly negative line regarding homosexuality. I assume this is the reason YOU decided to end your contribution to the Digest with this tagline. I always saw this line as an attempt by Gary to detract those people who, at the time, were questioning Gary's sexual preferences. I know alot of people around me who were not Numan fans over the years have casually asserted they thought Gary was gay. Is it totally UN-Politicaly Correct of me to admit that it worried me too? I admit that that line in 'Rhythm of the Evening' pleased me. It gave me evidence that Gary was straight. His marriage a while ago helped out in that regard as well. Mike Damrath http://home.earthlink.net/~damrat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:34:45 -0600 From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley Subject: we can fly To: The Gary Digest Dear Numanoids all, >> "for someone who describes themself as an aetheist, Gary sure has a >> lot to say about God!" > > It is the IDEA of a god that is important to anyone... Actually, Gary answered this very question some time ago on his Interview section of NuWorld, (anyone else notice that that page hasn't been updated in a year?) and his point was pretty much what Matthew was saying, that even though he's not a believer, it's an interesting topic for discussion and he wants to be able to offer his own ideas on it. We don't have to all agree on a subject in order for each of us to have something valuable to contribute to it. In answer to another complaint, Gary has a long 'thank you' message opening the news section of NuWorld for everybody who enjoyed the Manchester gig. You might want to check it out: http://www.numan.co.uk/clouds/news.html He then goes into a lengthy statistical defense of the songs chosen for the set list. I guess some people decided to complain to the source as well as those who complained here. Doesn't it just warm our hearts to see our hero have to justify himself to us like that? Ah, now we really know we're doing some good in the world. Let me just offer a quote from that message here: > Actually, I did notice that the same old whingers have turned up on > the same old web sites with the same old complaints about the gig. > I'd be really grateful if you irritating little handful became fans > of someone else as you're getting on my nerves. Like I've said, numanoids can be the whiniest bunch of complainers I've ever heard. How about, instead of complaining about what songs Gary DID choose, you write to him to suggest some other songs you would like him to perform on his next tour? I think maybe the Brit fans need to remind themselves they're fortunate to get to hear Gary at all. When the Exile tour came through the States, the set list was exactly the same the two nights I saw it, but I adored every second of it. It reminds me of this stand-up comedian I heard saying, "What is with these people who complain about seats on airplanes being too small, and airplane food being terrible and not enough, and how the seats don't recline and the bathrooms are too small, and so on, and so on. When did we become so jaded to the fact that... WE CAN FLY!" Take it from us yanks, it's a treat just to be able to hear Gary play! lots of love to all, and jealousy that I didn't get to hear those same old songs myself, Ben Iglar-Mobley http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley (proud member of the Boys Like Us) * * * "Some things you can't forgive I'll make everyone pay" ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** _______________________________________________________________________ _____ ____ ____ _____ _____ / \ | | / \ / \ / \ / \ | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | G | | A | | | R | | Y | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----| |-----| | |-----| |-----| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | N | E | W | S |=====| | | | | | | | & | | | | | | | \_____/ I | N | F | O | | | | is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: numan@cs.uwp.edu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to numan-request@cs.uwp.edu ----------------- The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Datta Production and Development, 905 97th Street, Kenosha, WI 53143 USA datta@cs.uwp.edu and computer resources courtesy of University of Wisconsin-Parkside and Datta Production and Development. 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