Gary Numan Digest Thu, 24 Feb 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 15 Today's Topics: "I'm great, me..." "Nu"-Man added to our world > OT: New Kraftwerk? and other stuff Another musical coincidence? in defense of gary's designs isn't it ironic I stand corrected kraftwerk, expo 2000 and official websites misdirected attribution in last Digest My two cents S.U. Sleep By Windows????? STILL Top Telekon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:38:42 -0000 From: "Phil Marsh" Subject: "I'm great, me..." To: digest@garynumanfan.nu Jim "wotagreatguyiam" Napier wrote (amongst other self congratulatory guff):- >I get so many positive e-mails, it's easy to dismiss whining by >people who don't even have the decency to speak to me privately >first. You are a miniscule minority. If that was the case, he wouldn't have been quite so bugged about myself and Jeff both passing comment on his practices... As it is, he is so selfless and generous with his time and money, he is beyond criticism, as he says himself:- >And not even Gary ran his fan club internationally until I already >had for 7 years. Maybe someone will point out to Gary the debt he so clearly owes Mr Napier next time they see him... >North American Gary Numan Fan Club (1989 - ?) Which forgets to mention the years he disappeared altogether in that time. He posted only a few years ago saying how he was back after several years' absence... But why let the truth get in the way of another self congratulatory line, eh? I held off responding to his insults as I thought I'd wait and see if anyone came forward to support what he said about what a great service he provided, and how great the NAGNFC was. The silence was deafening. >Where were all you armchair critics then as I lost a fortune >bringing Numanoids together from 4 continents? Is that all us "armchair critics" who "are a miniscule minority"? When criticised (rightly) for profiteering on the sale of bootlegs, his only comment is:- >For those who hadn't thought to make items available first, that's >okay, I understand your pain. Err..yeah, right...very mature response that was; oh but maybe that's him being lighthearted, eh? And (hopefully) finally:- > I have reasoned and hung on by my fingertips on this wild and >utterly negative ride but I see no reason not to jump off. He got two posts on the Digest passing a few negative comments. Hardly a "wild and negative ride". He responded with bile, ignoring the criticisms he couldn't answer, personal insults and yet more self congratulation. And now he's going. Goodness, how WILL we all manage without him... I hope he remembers to shut the door on his way out. Phil (phil.marsh@ndirect.co.uk) http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~phil.marsh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Tressler Subject: "Nu"-Man added to our world To: digest@garynumanfan.nu Hello everyone! My wife gave birth to our second son two weeks ago today. Gregory Michael weighed in at 7 lbs 11 oz. Won't be long till I'm rocking him to sleep by "Slowcar To China". Actually, I should make a tape of Gary's lighter stuff to play for the kids. "The Lighter Side of Numan". I like it. Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:00:50 EST From: "jon glass" Subject: > OT: New Kraftwerk? and other stuff To: digest@garynumanfan.nu > >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:06:23 +0000 >From: Dryad >Subject: OT: New Kraftwerk? >To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan) >brand:new on MTV UK has been screening this video, the very beginning of >which >I keep missing, so don't know who does the song, but it walks, talks, >heck, >practically smells like Kraftwerk. So, my question is, does anyone know if >this is Kraftwerk, and if so, from what cd? > >Thankee > >Clea yeah, kraftwerk just put out a new single called "expo2000" but i dont think theres a video for it, though there may be, i doubt if they'll be an album coming anytime soon, but there are always rumors...who knows? its kraftwerk! AND for those of you wanting to get your friends into NUMAN ive found that dance is the best starter out of all of them. for those of us too lazy to make a mix tape that is. i cant really define why, but its seemed to be ALL of my friends favorite numan album of all time, which makes me wonder why it is that most people on the digest still feel telekon is the best, i always thought of dance as telekon + 10. and about that I ASSASSIN reissue, i say just remix EVERYTHING, put it to cd and make a BOX SET out of it :) (like rhino did with the stooges funhouse album! did anyone see that? 7cds of 10 songs, some 14 hours of nothing but that album!) me, being into full session recordings and things like that, i would love to hear something like that from numan. well bye for now. "ill forget who you are, ill foget one of these days. cry the, clock said." jon glass you must check out my band: http://leosoperation.hompage.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:28:01 -0800 From: Derek Langsford Subject: Another musical coincidence? To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU I have not seen this one mentioned here yet. I have owned the Sisters of Mercy's "Floodland" album for years but have not listened to it for a long time. Still, upon seeing their Greatest Hits CD offered by Sister Ray for a great price for an import, I thought I'd expand my SoM catalogue. Quelle surprise upon hearing the intro of the opening track "Under the Gun." Is this another case of coincidence? Gary has long touted his fondness for SoM. Was it conscious or unconscious? The Extended Dominion Day has suddenly lost some of its originality :-( Thanks to Benjamin for the pointers to GEMM. I hope a deleted CD to fill a whole in my (non-Numan) collection is on its way from Germany. Derek San Diego, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 06:52:54 -0800 From: awa Subject: in defense of gary's designs To: digest@garynumanfan.nu gary designed "i, assassin." it's not flawless and it's not perfect, college-educated design work but it's nice. he has a good eye for design a lot of the time. a lot the time he doesn't. he's got a good eye and a good ear. i liked his work on the cover of "dark light" as well. it was simple and interesting, there was not a lot of clutter and fab graphics techniques being flexed all over the place to be sure. so, to my eyes, it made for a very attractive, simple and clean CD cover. but, then again, i love the aesthetics of the movie "thx1138." i remember as a kid my all-time favorite pic of any pop star was the one on the cover of the "complex" single. now, there's a cover! those photos of him from a session involving watery shadows near the end of the '80s were very effective and true to a numanesque aesthetic too. what record was that? i can't remember right now. was it a 12" single from "new anger"? there's this photo of him with bright blue in the background and watery shadows and he's got his possessed, glowing eyes look going on. "exile" is just fine, too. we're not going to slag that one are we? as tom gorham wrote in the sunday, 2/20, digest, the last covers haven't featured "our gary" on them and this is a nice trend. we all know what he looks like when he's posing and he's wearing lipstick in the mid '80s. these new, shadowy photos are a positive step and look like the music sounds. i liked the pic of him on the "sacrifice" COVER but not the pics inside the booklet of that CD, all tight-fitting leather and huge german crucifixes. the pic of him inside the "exile" booklet, however, is great. he's doing what he wants again and here's to hoping the designs will just keep getting more and more interesting. maybe in the not-too-distant future, he will incorporate some photos, some designs of a more abstract nature that have nothing to do with people and their faces. for me, it would be a dream come true. i hope he's picked up a copy of kraftwerk's "expo 2000" single. here's to this endless electric cocktail party! thanks, a.w. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:13:24 -0600 From: Valerie Iglar-Mobley Subject: isn't it ironic To: The Gary Digest > His ranting (on his website and in Alien) are pathetic. Get over it. > Either ignore the comments or, if they are many and frequent maybe you > should take them to heart because your fans are putting the food on > your table and there will come a time when they may choose to not buy > your stuff. I didn't pay for a magazine subscription to hear him whine > about these things in print. You should realize, Todd, that you're doing exactly the same thing-- ranting and whining. Criticism flies fast and free on this list. People are constantly signing off because the atmosphere is so negative. There are endless complaints about what Gary's doing and how. It goes on and on. Odd that when Gary finally succumbs to that mood, THAT becomes the real problem. > Let the guy work. You want a bunch of shlock that takes two or three > days to pump out? You missed my point, Jim. I DO want him to be able to do his work. I even wrote to him to ignore the whole lot of us and listen to his own voice instead. It just seems that these messages of his about doing this and that with his studio equipment suggest his heart isn't in this project, so instead he's looking for distractions. I'm wondering what his state of mind is about this new album-- is it something he's enjoying or is it an assignment he has to finish by some arbitrary deadline. If it's the latter, to me that sounds like such an unfortunate attitude to have about your own artistry. Step back, reconsider, find again what's valuable about the process. Just as an aside, though, 'Replicas' was recorded over three days. Three days. love, Benjamin Iglar-Mobley http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley * * * "So now I'm alone Now I can think for myself" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:40:42 -0600 From: Jeff Tolva Subject: I stand corrected To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU Fellow Numanoids, On 2/18/00, I wrote in reference to Jim Napier: >I can't say for certain what he charges for audio tapes, but I'll bet it's more than >$5 per tape. I'm glad no-one took me up on my bet. Jim Napier has informed me that he does indeed sell copies of his Numan audio tapes for $5 each. True to my word, I stand corrected on this point. Jeff Tolva (The Machman) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 06:16:18 -0800 From: awa Subject: kraftwerk, expo 2000 and official websites To: digest@garynumanfan.nu i haven't seen the vid yet but... there IS certainly a new cd single out by kraftwerk called "expo 2000." classic kraftwerk. there's less klang in the kling-klang of it this time out as well. very smooth listen. all numan fans who love the futuristic/sci-fi side of gary will appreciate this track from these elektro-pop originators, these vegetarian, green party-supporting, bike riding fanatics. lovely design upon the cover as well, the best cover i've seen in ages. kraftwerk prove you can stick to your robotics and electronics and you can do it right--even if half your people leave the band. you don't have to bring in a las vegas background singer review, nor do you have to "go goth". ooooooo. sticking with what you're good at, writing lyrics about subjects that you're passionate about, that never did kraftwerk any harm in the past and it doesn't do them any harm here either. their (official) website sucks a dead dog's, though. i'm hoping it's a stop-gap while they emerge from the lab over in dussledorf to bring us some uber produkt shortly. gary's nuworld website is still one of the best official websites there is, whether there's ranting and whining, bitching and moaning in it or not, it's easy on the eyes, well-designed, easy-to-use and practical. it's all you could want in a basic gary-produced one-stop. have a happy, alec > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:06:23 +0000 > From: Dryad > Subject: OT: New Kraftwerk? > To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan) > > Your gentle pardon, folks, but I don't know who else might supply me with the > info... > > brand:new on MTV UK has been screening this video, the very beginning of which > I keep missing, so don't know who does the song, but it walks, talks, heck, > practically smells like Kraftwerk. So, my question is, does anyone know if > this is Kraftwerk, and if so, from what cd? > > Thankee > > Clea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:48:49 -0800 From: Derek Langsford Subject: misdirected attribution in last Digest To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU Tom Gorham wrote: >I think that's fair comment. It seems surprising that he's taking a pop at >moaners now, when the Digest, for example, has contained criticism of Gary >from day one (a quick check back at the first Numan Digest shows a swingeing >- and accurate - critique of Machine and Soul from Derek Langsford. I don't >think the complaints have got any more unreasonable since, so why choose now >to have a go? Maybe Gaz is just a little frustrated at the moment, or fans >are becoming a little peeved with continual delays to the release of the new >album - delays which seem to be Gary's own doing. Actually Tom, I don't think it was my review but Trent Jakubec's. (Trent, are you still with us?). Back then I received everything and forwarded it to the Digest server. I did write a review of M&S but I think it came out in a Numanews newsletter prior to the Digest. The review was equally critical of this inconsistent, paucity of ideas album. The fans are restless and getting impatient. Gary's self-created distractions don't help. I can understand the problem - I suffer the same thing with work I find difficult. It was amazing how important cleaning our house became while writing my dissertation. To provide perspective - Kate Bush is working on her follow-up to 1993's "Red Shoes" album. Peter Gabriel has not released anything since 1992's "Us." Kraftwerk are rumoured to be on the verge of releasing their first album of new material since 1986's "Electric Cafe." "Exile" was released in 1997. Derek San Diego, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 05:58:16 PST From: "Dalis Car" Subject: My two cents To: digest@garynumanfan.nu, datta@ivanova.garynumanfan.nu >>>I wonder how much of this is about control but also about money. >Todd, your points are well taken, but I don't think it's about the >money >for Gaz. If he were to take your advice and hire some people to help >him out around the periphery of what he's doing, he'd probably be in >a lot >better standing right now in marketability-- so he'd actually >have bigger >sales and more filthy lucre at his disposal-- but he's >willing to >sacrifice that to keep the reins in his own hands. I >think it really is >about control for him; he just wants to do it all >himself. He has a >vision and he wants to follow it. I think I agree with Todd. If I remember correctly back in the days when Derek Langsford use to have access to Gary we used to be able to send Derek questions that he would forward to Gary then the Q & A would be posted in the digest. I don't remember what the question was, but I remember Gary writing something to the effect "I would sing Garth Brooks songs if someone payed me enough money." Another one of the Q & A s someone asked what happend with the bass and drums in his current albums, and he whined about how he hired a bassist for one album and the guy charged him to much. So for Gary nowadays and probably always it's just about money. Also a lot of people have mentioned recently about what a wimp Gaz is about critizism on anything he does. I was reminded of something that I thought at the time was the ultimate in coolness. A few years ago I bought a beautiful Pink Floyd CD box set. Included in the box set was a book it had really cool ariticles about Pink and lots of pics and album lyrics. What was real cool was that they put in all the bad album reviews. If I ever meet Gary I'm going to suggest this to him for the Alien fanzine just to see the look on his face. "Move upside, let the man go through." Soul Coughing "If I was ten years younger I'd take a flame thrower to this place!" Al Pacino Scent of a Women "There's a time to discriminate. Hate every motherfucker that's in your way." Marilyn Manson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:10:18 EST From: SteelHanky@aol.com Subject: S.U. To: digest@garynumanfan.nu This thread began with Numan Digest vol 2 iss 4. I was dismayed when I saw for sale on Ebay a video of a copy of a copy of Numan's old TV appearances, and saw the seller was a contributor to this digest. My post exposing this (and asking his motivation for selling these copies) consisted of 20 lines, 14 of which specifically addressed the video copies. I explicitly asked (quote): >>Those TV appearances are NOT yours to sell. Why are you selling them? I expected a reply, but not what I saw. The reply (vol 2, iss 5) was 57 lines long, and did not answer my question. Instead I got rationalizations, to wit: -- he gave away Numan bootleg cassettes for 11 years -- he operated his Numan fanzine at a loss -- he footed the bill for six Numan discos, complete with pizza, bands, lighting, and venues -- his fanzine was the least expensive compared to all other fanzines -- there are no banners on his Numan website to make money off Numanoids. Are you saying that you're "allowed", or somehow justified to sell copies of your bootlegs, because you've footed the bill for Numan stuff back in the late '80s to mid '90s? I am left to guess, as you didn't answer my question. And the point was completely missed by Benjamin in vol 2 iss 6 when, in an attempt to indirectly slag Joey, wrote: > But just contrast Joey's clenched-teeth vitriol with the open-armed > caring expressed by Jim "The Machman" Napier in his post. I think > it's pretty telling. In Napier's long (and largely irrelevant, I believe) reply to my direct questioning, Napier is complimented for "open-armed caring". Wow, amazing what Napier's introduction of "First off, WOW I never knew that was you! How have you been? All this time I've been reading your posts oblivious that it was you." can make others feel good to the point of completely missing the gist of the conversation. Napier got VERY defensive in issues 9 and 10 (and reposted twice on 11, just hit 'send' once, ok?) in response to a non-flattering post by Phil. "Phil Marsh has been made to look a stupid hot dog brain"? How old are you Napier? Never mind, rhetorical question. In issue 13, Jeff Tolva asks essentially the same questions I did before, and makes a great point: if the true motivation is to garner new Numan contacts for future trades, then put a dutch auction on Ebay, say 100 copies of Numan's tv appearances for $10, or whatever you believe your costs are. Auctioning off ONE copy at a time to the highest bidder leaves an aura of scarcity, and bidding wars begin that benefit the seller only That does NOT get new Numan contacts, that simply gives you a fat wallet. Besides, if I did have some rare Numan video, you would never know, as I saw the bidding got up over $50 for your single bootleg copy. I would never bid so high, and you would never get me as a contact. Conversely, 100 copies at $10 or whatever each, and I WOULD bid $10, and you WOULD get my email address as a future contact. Napier's apparent swan song was issue 14 ("This will be my last posting."), the cyber equivalent of taking his toys and going home. Still not addressing his reasons for profiting on bootleg copies, -- I see instead he's been calling himself Machman longer than the other folks have. He started in 1989, and "anyone after that is an imposter of Gary and me." (Sigh.) -- I see it's OUR fault for not copying our Numan videos and selling him before he thought of it first (he "feels our pain" that we're missing an opportunity to make the money he is). -- I see Napier has a better copy of Shadowman than Tolva. What's next, penis size? -- I see Napier mentioning that four others are selling Numan video on Ebay. Assuming they are bootlegs, that is certainly wrong and probably illegal, but I fail to see how that makes it ok since you see others doing it. And I'll bet you a dollar the other sellers are not under the guise of being a Numanoid. That put an element of sleaze in, that folks who sell bootlegs just to sell bootlegs do not have. -- Napier mentions for the second time that he gets "so many positive emails". So do all of us. Indeed, Elle MacPherson emails me almost daily, begging me to dump the wife and become Mr. MacPherson. Enjoy your alleged positive emails; I tend to put more weight on semi-public postings by Numanoids, vice uncheckable "emails" from strangers. S'cuze me, just got a positive email from Stephanie Seymour. --- JAD... Proud member of Boys Who Don't Profit From Bootlegs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:43:57 -0600 From: "Kane" Subject: Sleep By Windows????? To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey "Antonio" antonio@goffboi.freeserve.co.uk You Said When Telekon First Came Out Your Favorite Song Was "Sleep By Windows" But When I Got My Highly Anticipated Copy There Never Was A Song On Any Copy Of Telekon I Ever Bought By That Name.It Was`nt Untill The CD Version Came Out That It Had It On It? Maybe The British Release Had it and The American Release Did`nt ????? Jonathan Scott=20 http://hiwaay.net/~jonscott/ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey "Antonio" antonio@goffboi.freeserve= .co.uk You=20 Said When Telekon First Came Out Your Favorite = Song Was=20 "Sleep By Windows" But When I Got My Highly Anticipated = Copy There=20 Never Was A Song On Any Copy Of Telekon I Ever Bought By = That=20 Name.It Was`nt Untill The CD Version Came Out That It Had It = On=20 It? Maybe The British Release Had it and = The American=20 Release Did`nt ????? Jonathan Scott = http://hiwaay.net/~jonscott/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:46:47 -0000 From: "Valerium" Subject: STILL Top To: "Ian Blair" while backing up old Lovie`s comments stated "Well I can't believe he's got nothing better to do! You have to wait an hour before re-sitting!" I hate to break the news guys but you only have to wait an hour if you can`t figure out how not to (hardly rocket science). Rob, go on tell them how I did it. Put them out of their misery (Nah in fact don`t bother, see below) "so it would only be a process of re-selecting and arranging the ones he knew (I suspect he was v confident with the right ones) were wrong, each time..." C`mon guys pay attention. I would still have to know FOR SURE which 16 were right. even if I was v confident, it would still take a huge amount of goes and one slip up would render that process useless. Then I would have to reselect and if I got sixteen right again or in fact seventeen, eighteen or nineteen in my oh so long quest (10 minutes!) to perfection, these scores would have showed up in the hall of fame. But they don't. So how did I do it? A prize of a pint of London's finest at SB for the first correct answer. (Except for you Rob) Foxy, I know you will know so no entry allowed. I will buy you a pint anyhow :-) All this "not in the spirit of things" is bullshit. I wonder how long it will be before we leave this PC nonsense behind us. If you scored 100% and found an innovative way of doing it, you would not hear anything but congrats from me. Instead the bleeding hearts of the "Its just not cricket" brigade whine away like a dying calf in a snowstorm. How about "well done Valerium, you cheating mother fucker". Even that is better than "But its just not in the spirit, whine whine " Don't worry chaps. If Rob decides to put up a prize for the first 100% record in a new quiz, I will make sure what I did cannot be done again. While against all PC bullshit, I am blessed with an honesty scarcely present in today's PC Bullshit world. Have I mentioned PC Bullshit enough or will I mention PC Bullshit once more. What? once more? Oh Ok then. PC Bullshit . V ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:17:51 +0300 From: "The Tik-Tok Man" Subject: Telekon To: "Numan Digest" In the last Digest, Antonio shared his appreciation and interpretation of the song Telekon: " 'You end on reel one' to me at the age of 14 seemed so deep! I was thinking, 'Wow - this means your life is so short, only one reel long... it's like, a metaphor for being cut down in our prime...' " It's always fascinating to read the myriad meanings we Numanites attach to Gaz's ethereal lyrics. Everyone has their favourites. Telekon is also one of my faves, but I'd always imagined that Numan was singing to a lover he had just split up with (probably an echo of my state of mind at that time). For me, his use of "you" was the self-referential "you" as opposed to the third person "you". So the line "You end on reel one" was his bitter, cold-hearted goodbye to her; she only lasted one reel, no big deal, there'll be another one to take her place in reel two ... Which just reinforces my belief that more deconstruction of Numan's lyrics and their meanings would brighten up this bitchy Digest somewhat, even lift it out of the negative pit it's fallen onto ... Anyone care to take a stab at the possible meanings of: "Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing play cards in an empty house in Paris. The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." >From "You Are In My Vision" of course ... TikTokMan Moscow ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, datta@cs.uwp.edu, Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: digest-request@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Joey Lindstrom and the GaryNUmanFan server Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU All of the opinions in this digest belong to the respective authors and do not necessarily agree with those of the Digest Producers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: digest@garynumanfan.nu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to digest-request@garynumanfan.nu --------------------------------------------------------------------------