Gary Numan Digest Sun, 27 Feb 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: cover design Gary Numan Digest V2 #15 (2 msgs) In My Vision New member North American Gary Numan Fan Club ROFLMAO takin' a stab The wreckage of a hero You Are In My Vision You Are In My Vision lyrics ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:00:31 -0000 From: "Denis James" Subject: To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:44:22 GMT From: "laurence robertson" Subject: cover design To: digest@garynumanfan.nu Complex is indeed a great cover - one of the best of it's era I think. In fact there are a couple of covers that I particularly rate - (although I am not sure if Gary designed them or not). One is the cover of the Down In The Park 12" and my favourite is the cover of the german anthology, Photograph , which featured Gary in a cream suit on a white background. This shoot rates alongside the Replicas pics that appeared on Replicas poster, the back of the album and on the picture disc of The Plan. I'd like to know who designed the cover for Strange Charm though - hope it wasn't The Man himself, as it's one of worst covers I've ever seen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:21:57 -0800 From: Mark Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #15 To: Gary Numan TikTokMan wrote: >Anyone care to take a stab at the possible meanings of: >"Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing >play cards in an empty house in Paris. >The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner >and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." > >From "You Are In My Vision" of course ... For me, music is VERY visual, and I can see this room. The bodies all covered in sheer material and dust, much like a possible scene from something like Bladerunner when Darryl Hannah is in that dudes apartment amidst all the genetic dolls he made. This is actually one of my fav Numan pieces. It rocks, it is electronic, it has emotion, and is very visual. Mark Hubbard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:45:24 -0000 From: "Antonio" Subject: Gary Numan Digest V2 #15 To: "Gary Numan" "Kane" Maybe The British Release Had it and The American Release Did`nt ????? The original UK vinyl release of Telekon had this track list - Side 1 - This Wreckage The Aircrash Bureau Telekon Remind Me To Smile Sleep By Windows Side 2 - I'm An Agent I Dream Of Wires Remember I Was Vapour Please Push No More The Joy Circuit Free 7" single in first 100,000 copies - Side A - Remember I Was Vapour (live) Side B - On Broadway (live) There was also a free poster. I also had a (I think) Canadian import of the album with I Die You Die instead of Sleep By Windows... and I believe the original British cassette version had We Are Glass and I Die : You Die tacked on - one at the end of each side, IIRC. Antoher interesting point was that some copies of Telekon (and the free single) were in black vinyl, but if you held them up to a light, they were actually very dark red. Not all copies were like this, and there was discussion of this in the letters page of Smash Hits at the time. My first copy was plain old black, my second and third were this strange dark red. Kept me awake at night wondering if I had a rare colletors item :} Then, "The Tik-Tok Man" asked for opinions on lyrical meanings - now I know that this is a subject that's hard to agree on given Gary's (to my mind very very cool) use of imagery and words which just sound good together, but lyrical interpretations are a discussion I feel we should have here as I find other peoples interpretations of songs I have known and loved for most of my life fascinating. >Which just reinforces my belief that more deconstruction of Numan's lyrics >and their meanings would brighten up this bitchy Digest somewhat, even lift >it out of the negative pit it's fallen onto ... > >Anyone care to take a stab at the possible meanings of: > >"Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing >play cards in an empty house in Paris. >The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner >and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." I always thought of this as a scene where four old machmen reaching the end of their days sit and play cards, slowly dying and resigned to that. There was someone (the hero) who they have beaten crap out of lying in the corner, still alive, but unable to move - possibly beaten and drugged. The last line is an observation that everybody else, who can't see this sad scene, all want to be something else... machman or hunter (replicant or bladerunner, even). Now, admittedly, this interpretation only came about for me after I'd seen Bladerunner, which was some 5 years after this song, and I had never read the story before, though I was aware Gary was a fan of Philip K Dick... so it's to me a scene from Bladerunner (or, 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep') which Gary has written a song about, transferring it to the Replicas world. I am probably wrong :) Antonio -- I am a poseur and I don't care, I like to make people stare! (X-Ray Spex) http://www.goffboi.freeserve.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:13:08 +0000 From: vickers@netcomuk.co.uk Subject: In My Vision To: Gary Numan Re the Tik Tok Man's challenge: what do those words mean: "Delicate bodies .... like to live that way." I used to wonder if there was any echo of "Last Tango In Paris" in there: wasn't that in an empty house (flat?) in Paris? Everyone would like to have illicit relationships, which somehow sound more fun than being married! And the delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing must (could? might? just possibly?) indicate human beings as opposed to Machmen? Let me stress: I haven't actually got a clue. Paddy Vickers Proud member of Boys Without A Clue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:00:23 -0000 From: "Denis James" Subject: New member To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From=20 Denis=20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From Denis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:14:53 -0800 (PST) From: PolareBear Subject: North American Gary Numan Fan Club To: digest@garynumanfan.nu Hello Numanoids of the World! Like Gary after his Wembley farewell concerts, Jim "The Machman" Napier is back and at your service. Lots of new pictures and COGN news on the NAGNFC Website.. Keep your eyes peeled for the RealAudio page to be filled with more live tracks and collaborations very soon! Before reading the following, please know that I have so far kept the hottest personal attacks out of your Digest, and in the inbox of those concerned. Every subtle tact has been exhausted. It is not intrinsic to my nature to enjoy arguing in public. But in countless scientific studies, subtlety is lost on the mentally challenged. For them, things have to be slow and spelled out. I will cringe when I read this later, as I always do when I am forced, by public flogging, to come off as someone I am not. Having said that, there are individuals who do not adhere to the Terms Of Service we all agree to by posting to the Numan Digest. Among them are the restraint of personal attacks on fellow Numanoids. Is it not endlessly amusing that there are two gentlemen who break the rules of the Digest to inform me than I am breaking their rules? How credible does their argument become? Negligible at best. Kudos to Jeff Tolva who respects your Digest and its rules enough to make an effort to stay on its topic which is Gary Numan (articulated for others who seem to have forgotten), and to keep further personal complaints private to me, a complaint I will heed many times more readily than someone who enjoys a Danny T level of public sleaze just to push someone's buttons. Phil Marsh did write me personally from day one to tell me he would not get into the topic anymore in the Digest. Folks, this lie was carried out by the same person who wants to use your inbox to lecture and bore us to tears about his "high" moral standards. Well the credibility gauge falls well below negligible at this point. Any more lies for me to expose Phil? I'm beginning to enjoy it. I will say one thing in Phil's favor though. His is a well thought out and constructed view of his take of the issue. I am humbly flattered to have rattled someone so articulate, if unfortunately and inevitably exposed as misguided. To me, your letters make me fuzzy inside like fresh pancakes in the morning with syrup and warm butter here on the farm. Mmmmmmm. Which brings us to SteelHanky a/k/a JAD. Steel, my friend, are you legally retarded? Just let me know and I'll back down. After your letter, I would definitely not be crippled with shock to learn that you are. First off friends, Steel complains about my writing style in the NAGNFC newsletters. Others back then asked if I went to college to write like I did (it wasn't my major). Yet for all the complaining, Steel continually renewed his membership to them. Now, call me weird but, why would someone in his right mind subscribe to such a crappy publication? Let me guess here if I may. Could it have been because it was your best source of NumanNews? Even in this Digest's early days (1990-1991), some of the most continually solid news on it was relayed by NAGNFC member Brian Hammond for the Digest members to enjoy. Allow me to boast a little there, I am infinitely proud of my accomplishment to gather news. And I would not and could not have done it without the help of Numanoids around the world, for whom I provided a quality publication below my costs, and for whom I financed major Numan parties with bands and guest stars such as the guy who mastered the IRS recordings. Amazingly, Steel says confidently I have done all this under the guise of being a Numanoid, further breaking standard Digest rules to scold me about rules. Friends, I regularly spend several nice sunny days indoors laying out and typesetting publications for artists who mean nothing to me. In fact, keep your eyes peeled for the NABSFC. The North American Britney Spears Fan Club. I will be totally financing a Britney Disco in Cleveland in summer 2000 complete with lookalike Britney wannabes. Seriously, you are legally retarded aren't you Steel? I mean, anyone who willfully chooses to complain, in hundreds of Numanoid e-mail inboxes, about my playful use of the adjective "stupid hot dog brain", does no doubt have further personal "issues" which extend well beyond the scope or even help of the Numan Digest. To answer both your questions. No, the efforts I've spent to make Numanoids happy all of these years does not give me the right to sell someone a Numan tape. What gives me the right to sell a Numan tape is his well-known stance on the subject. If a fan does it, he will turn a blind eye. I have discussed this topic with Gary by e-mail and in person. Gary's only worry was that, in linking my site to NuWorld, my catalog would be seen as being authorized officially. That is why you will not see any selling going on in the NAGNFC Website. Believe me, Gary has the final say on this. He has given me more since I was 12 years old than I can describe in words. I have told Gary many times to just say the word, and I will more than happily change the NAGNFC in any way he would rather it be. The NAGNFC is for everyone, but ultimately for Gary Numan. If it offended him in any way, I would be deeply embarrassed and would waste no time to change to make him happy too. Anything other than that stance would be incredibly short-sighted and pointless for any Numan organization, be it a newsletter or a website. So to the bored critics (who really are in need of a girlfriend, or doctor in JAD's extreme case), please do us all a favor and delete all of the illegally downloaded copyrighted MP3s from your hard drive before further lecturing us all about your high moral standards. OK, back to your regularly scheduled NAGNFC :-) Jim "The Machman" Napier http://themachman.garynumanfan.nu _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:51:33 -0800 (PST) From: PolareBear Subject: ROFLMAO To: digest@garynumanfan.nu Hello Numanoids of The World! Jim "The Machman" Napier here to thank all the fellow Numanoids who stopped by for the live chat Tuesday. I brought virtual donuts and cider for all participants. To answer your questions, the NAGNFC chat will become a weekly staple since the last one was so much fun. I laughed when I read the last digest. :-) SteelHanky says I do this under just a guide of being a Numanoid, and despite several manifestos, he says I have yet to address his mental anguish. With all the misinformation around, I thought I would contribute to it by coming back from Exile and back on the Digest! Very brave for these 2 folks to finally come forward just as they thought they wouldn't be publicly discredited. Well you won't be publically discredited. In many respects, you're right. My last letter was a little self-congratulatory. But in response to "how will we ever get along without him?" would be my answer "probably very well, but not as well as over 100 Numanoids did without the Internet." Like a 96 year old in a rest home who has had his day, he feels he can be of use despite the other excellent Numan services available today. Honestly, I wish there WAS another international Numan publication for all those years. Back then, info was at a premium. Really, I thought I was being clear and succinct in reply to questions from folks, but I seem to have failed unfortunately. In answer to "why do you sell items for profit?", well, once I make a profit I'll get back to you. You seem to think I'm rolling in money. Even not counting the money I have happily poured into the NAGNFC organization to make it a fun place for Numanoids to take part, I have yet to see a profit. For if it were, you would see a hell of a lot more on eBay than the last 2 vids in 2 months that ended up selling for $9.99 each. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions of me and I will respond happily. Because like most humans, I enjoy talking about myself. I enjoy having a reason to further let young whippersnappers know about all the fun they missed. Ha-ha! You should see the priceless letters I get these days from Numanoids who can't believe US Numan discos were taking place right in their city, but had no idea. Who knows, maybe, just maybe, there will be more of them. The last NAGNFC gathering in Philadelphia in 1998 went so well with the 30-40 Numanoids who showed, I am seriously considering holding another one in early summer 2000. Stay tuned! _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 05:39:19 -0800 From: awa Subject: takin' a stab To: digest@garynumanfan.nu > Anyone care to take a stab at the possible meanings of: > > "Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing > play cards in an empty house in Paris. > The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner > and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." > > >From "You Are In My Vision" of course ... > > TikTokMan > Moscow i'll definitely take a stab. i think he's writing about images of a certain junky author and a certain junky pop star--both big inspirations to gary--he's read about and using them as metaphors. the delicate bodies are william s. burroughs, in particular, and his group of junky artist friends, mostly american ex-pats, who all called him "uncle bill" for his sagacity in all areas of life and art. these included jack kerouac and alan ginsburg, the beat poets. burroughs always wore nice clothes and though he lived a long life, he always had this aura of decay about him. the "empty house in paris" seems like the beat hotel, long since demolished, in paris where these guys would shoot junk, smoke pot, play cards, deconstruct the english language, make junky's art, write poetry and prose. this is combined with images of dave bowie and iggy pop "cleaning up" in berlin during the late '70s and bowie, one of gary webb's heros, addicted to coke, weighed about as much as humming bird and probably spent much of the mid-to-late '70s broken in a corner when he wasn't behaving like the worker bee he's known for behaving like. i like this thread. i can't think of any mysterious gary lyrics right now to offer in order to continue the thread. it's too early in the morning. i'm sure others will. luv, alec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:04:43 -0500 From: "Michael J. Damrath" Subject: The wreckage of a hero To: Gary Numan > > From: "The Tik-Tok Man" > > The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner > and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." > > >From "You Are In My Vision" of course ... > That just so happens to be one of my all-time favorite lyrical lines ever written. I've used it for years as a quote line on a lot of emails and postings. I've always related to this lyric, because to me it deals with the false glamour of 'the hero'. Even our greatest heroes are are, in the end, just people. They make mistakes, get old, and fade from the limelight. But we all still remember them for what they did to become famous, or for some extraordinary deed they once accomplished. After their moment of glory, our heroes go back to being just people. Life takes over and sweeps them along with it's current. They end up like the rest of us but for the exception of that they once were great. We look at our heroes in their prime, at the height of their accomplishment and wish we could be like them. So often our heroes have already crashed and burned out, while we all still wistfully admire them for what they were in the past. Michael J. Damrath http://home.earthlink.net/~damrat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:07:49 -0600 From: hartlaub@falcon.tamucc.edu Subject: You Are In My Vision To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan) Recently, the TikTokMan solicited responses to: >"Delicate bodies that decay beneath their clothing >play cards in an empty house in Paris. >The wreckage of a hero lies broken in the corner >and everyone pretends they'd like to live that way." I always took these lyrics to mean alienation from the self. The greatest lines in this song (IMHO) are "Staring at the ceiling as she gyrates all around me, I'm trying to forget she's done this all before." What an image! Even sexual connection is no connection if you're not really in touch with yourself and the other person. We see so-called heroes, yet don't really understand that they are just like us, empty and afraid. This reminds of other lyrics as well: "I'd love to be like me if I could feel like you" from "My Shadow in Vain" in terms of kthe emptiness of the self, and "War Songs" for a clear look at heroes. And for what it's worth, I'd rather deconstruct lyrics for 100 years than endlessly debate the worth or lack thereof of the NAGNFC. -Mark "We liberated river towns and we picked up the sex skin crawl" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:59:01 -0000 From: "brendan colton" Subject: You Are In My Vision lyrics To: Tik Tok Man talked of the 'Paris' lyrics in 'You Are In My Vision'; We all interpret lyrics differently...that's what is great about music; it means something to us as individuals. I always saw these lyrics as referring to the aging Samuel Beckett in his reclusive abode in Paris. I remember once that a fellow student of mine, when I did my English degree, actually got the privilege to visit him there before he died. I think as students we all dreamed of living this bohemian lifestyle. That's what this means...(to me). Incidentally, I drove past Gary's house yesterday. I study nearby. By the way people, can you please stop your infighting...it's become boring. It's not what appreciating Gary's music etc is about now, is it. Let him get on with the job in hand and have faith. He has never let us down yet. Love and anticipation, Brendan XXX ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, datta@cs.uwp.edu, Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: digest-request@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Joey Lindstrom and the GaryNUmanFan server Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU All of the opinions in this digest belong to the respective authors and do not necessarily agree with those of the Digest Producers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: digest@garynumanfan.nu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to digest-request@garynumanfan.nu --------------------------------------------------------------------------