Gary Numan Digest Sun, 23 Jul 2000 Volume 2 : Issue 58 Today's Topics: Bootlegs & Biscuits CDR I'm a driver in defense of the bootleggers Promo CD (2 msgs) Pure CD's Re auction house Re Cdrs Small Wonder What the HELL is wrong with s/f lyrics?!? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:49:11 +0100 From: thoutby@fusiongroup.co.uk (Tim Houtby) Subject: Bootlegs & Biscuits To: "Digest" Just a few of points after reading todays digest: I have fairly relaxed views on bootlegs. I don't think they're such a bad thing. I also don't think that the majority of them take any income away from the artist. I mean, this Pure CDR - would this version ever be release by Gary as a stand-alone income grabber? I don't think so. Plus, would ANY Numan fan buying this NOT buy the official finished release also - I don't think so. So I guess that theres not a lot of money lost for Gary here. The only thing that irks me about this is that someone should wish to charge $15 or whatever it was, for something that has a true cost of a tiny fraction of the selling price. Unfortunately thats the nature of the beast though, in these circumstances (and the same can also be said about the corporate music labels anyway I suppose). So who wins and who loses ?? - I don't know. Plus: Linda - Angry stuff ? Thats fine. I can stomach anything Gary does..... except maybe Radio Heart / London Times !!! Clea - I've got Oreos sat in my office drawer right now. I know where to buy them in England. Try your local Safeway. If you dont have one, then maybe we should start an Oreo Trade system. Bye for now Tim (just about to start on the Oreos) ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:48:20 +0100 From: "A MCHAFFIE" Subject: CDR To: "Gary Numan" Getting hold of the tracks and putting them on the web as MP3's would be a good idea. Sure, it doesnt net Gary a penny, but hopefully it will stop this greedy little capitalist bastard from profiting illegally Tubeway Andy http://facelink.com/andy64 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:55:07 +0200 From: "Hansi Slanec" Subject: I'm a driver To: "Gary Numan" Hi folks, i found this on my guestbook: Record 21 Name: Stephen From: UK Time: 2000-07-15 22:17:00 Comments: Hi, Did you know that Gary wrote a song called 'I'm a Driver'? It's listed in the first ever GN Fan Club newsletter as a song on Telekon. Looks like it never made it on to the album. I wonder what happened to it. Cheers, Stephen Does anybody knows anything about it? Does anybody know the song? cheers Hansi, the Austrian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:53:27 -0500 From: Val & Ben Iglar-Mobley Subject: in defense of the bootleggers To: The Gary Digest Dear all, You know, Gary also doesn't make any money off the sale of bananas. Should we put a stop to those sales, as well? Personally, I LOVE bootlegged CDRs! I love 'em, I love 'em, I love 'em! I have plenty of them in my collection. (Come on, Troy, report me to the authorities!) For me they're a great way to get access to music I would otherwise never hear. For example, Tori Amos is probably my bootleg queen. I have more of her boots than I do any other artist, just because she releases so friggin' many b-sides and she does so many covers in her concerts. Now, I buy all the Tori singles I can find, but she has a particular penchant for releasing limited edition whatevers, and they often get right past me. I could be puritanical about it and refuse to give the bootleggers any money ("They're STEALING from the artists!") or I could acknowledge that Tori is never going to get any money from me for those items now, anyway, because they're no longer commercially available. I've seen one official release of her 'Y Kant Tori Reed' album in a store; it was being resold... at $200. Now, how much of that money is Ms. Amos going to get? Nothing. Exactly the same amount as if I were to buy a bootlegged CDR of it. If it were to become commerically available again, I would buy it, but she has sworn she'll never rerelease it; she's not losing any income from my paying some person to burn a copy. And that's the point. Our artists don't make any money off CDRs, but they also don't LOSE any money. Is there anyone on this list who seriously thinks that there are people out there who'll shell out $15 to hear DEMO versions of two of Gary's new songs, and will then be contented with that and consider it a substitute for buying the new album? I'm trying to imagine the mental process, "Hm, now I have these two early versions of these songs; that's good enough, I don't need to waste my time with a full album!" After spending $15 on it? Anyone who's going to make that kind of an investment for copies of two demos is a dedicated fan and I think we can confidently state that person WILL also be buying the album when it comes out. Of course, I would never buy a bootleg for something that has been officially released. I hardly see these anyway, but I think there have been some listings on eBay for Gary's videos that have been duplicated. I would never buy those, because he's still selling them through his site, and that would indeed be taking money away from him. But there are several videos that he's released that are now no longer commercially available, and I would indeed buy any of those. I've even sold copies of my own. Quite openly. Right here on the Digest. I have an (admittedly worn) original edition of 'The Touring Principle' and I've offered it for copying before here on the Digest, and I've even SOLD copies to some of the people who responded to that offer. (Report me, Troy, report me! Come on, you know you want to!) If Gary rereleases it, I'll immediately stop copying it for anybody, but until then he's not going to be making any money off it anyway, so it's no loss to him. Like I said, it's no more stealing from him than it is to make money off selling bananas-- he's got nothing to do with it anymore. I don't even think there's anything so wrong with the bootleggers making a little profit in the bargain. After all, they are providing a service to us fans. They've gotten access to something or other that's limited in edition and they have the equipment to make duplicates to share it around. They've given of their time and effort; I don't think it's wrong to compensate them for that, or to place a price tag on getting access to something rare. I won't give a name because I don't want this person to also get reported to anybody, but there's a particular person on this list who's burned off three CDRs for me alone, also a tape, and last I heard from this person had burned off 37 copies of a certain discontinued Gary-related item for other people on this list. Now, by some standards that's a serious problem to put an immediate stop to. To my estimation, that's a dedicated fan who is sharing the enjoyment of Gary's music with a lot of other fans. To my mind, that's not a problem, that's a GOOD thing! This person has already garnered my nomination for Numanoid of the Year, for this effort alone. Remember, this item is no longer available; if my Numanoid of the Year wasn't copying it off, that would mean none of these people would get access to it. It wouldn't mean that official sales would improve, it would just mean that item wouldn't be enjoyed by those people. It wouldn't get shared. And that is one of the best side-effects of bootlegging among us fans. It has a social element. We all love Gary, we come together out of that love, and burning off copies of whatever obscurities between us is a way for us to share with each other and help each other in our collections. I don't have a CDR machine yet, but I can promise that when I get one I'll be burning off discs left and right. And I'll be offering them on the Dige, not out of a desire for personal profit but because I love Gary's music, I empathise with other fans who collect, and I want to help them out whatever way I can. I say, let those discs burn! with love for all, Ben http://home.earthlink.net/~iglarmobley * * * "Try to steal a needle Bring peace to my head And I'm stumbling down the alleys I find killers instead" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:41:37 +0100 From: "deadheaven" Subject: Promo CD To: Well done Troy Walters, hope you got great satisfaction in telling Tony Webb about the guy doing the CDR promo's, Why on earth did you do that, If you didn't want to buy it, simple just don't buy it, but to run telling tales is a bit LOW by any standard. (Hope you got a pat on the back from Tony anyhow!!!) The guy advertising the 3 track promo CD on e bay, was indeed ripping people off, firstly by saying he only had one copy for sale, when in fact he can do multiple copies, secondly he had taken the 3 new songs from a live recording of the last Shepherds Bush empire show, but failed to mention that in his advert. A real two track promo featuring two songs Pure & Rip does exist, it is a silver blue CDR, with propper printed text on the CD itself, It also has an official Eagle Cat No which is EAGCD078. So be garefull if you are going to pay a good price for one make sure its the original. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:52:05 +1000 From: iann@mbox.com.au Subject: Promo CD To: Gary Numan Digest iann >> I think the guy wanted about $US15 for a CD-R copy. iann >> If anyone has this promo CD, why not put the 2 tracks on the iann >> net as MP3 files for us all to enjoy. iann >> I know that the MP3 thing is a touchy subject right now but I iann >> would never out do Gary of any income. SteelHanky > Neither option you chose gives Gary any income. You can SteelHanky > certainly choose not to give someone $15 for a CDR copy, SteelHanky > but don't claim you're doing it because you know Gary SteelHanky > deserves a cut. Asking one of us to put both tracks on SteelHanky > the net "for all of us to enjoy" nets Gary the exact same SteelHanky > amount as paying $15 for a copy. SteelHanky > You didn't want to send someone money for a copy of a SteelHanky > promo CD. That's fine, but your motivation is to avoid SteelHanky > paying the guy with the burner $15. You can claim your SteelHanky > reasoning is because of Gary, but then immediately asking SteelHanky > for MP3 files, which also nets Gary nothing, invalidates SteelHanky > your feel-good reasoning. I don't want to start a flame war here, afterall we're all on the same side aren't we? But I'd just like to clarify a few things. I've been a Numan fan since Tubeway Army, and have purchased every album released. No, I wouldn't pay this guy $15 for a CD-R, but I would download it as an MP3 if it was available, (and so would most people on this digest), and I wouldn't feel bad about it because I know that as soon as the album is released I'll be one of the first to buy it. But as I said, the MP3 thing is a touchy subject and there will be people who would not buy the album if they had the MP3's, so maybe I was a bit naive when I asked for them, so I'll retract my request, but I have to repeat that I will buy the album in September, so Gary would still get his income from me, even if I had the whole album in MP3. I'm just hanging out for this new album, and I have a feeling that it will be the best yet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:25:13 +0100 From: "David Andrew Dickinson" Subject: Pure CD's To: Where are these promo CD's available from? I know it's not putting money in Gary's pocket , but most true fans would still buy the official release even if they had a bootleg of it first. Who thinks Gary should release a DVD of concert footage/compilation of promos now DVD is really taken off? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:50:27 +0100 From: "The Waiter" Subject: Re auction house To: Mark, The CD you mentioned was a total rip off the guy had taken the three live tracks from the last concert at sheppards bush empire and claimed to have an exclusive CD total rubbish he bootlegged a bootleg !! and had tried to sell it before only to let people down ( if you read his profile). The auction house was informed and that particular auction was deleted. thewaiter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:40:33 +0100 From: "The Waiter" Subject: Re Cdrs To: "Gary Numan" Hi Troyl, Fanatic's will buy the cdr's, a chance to hear some new material by Numan, who wouldn't. I think it's a shame that the 'seller' tried to sell copies, the cd would be more exclusive and far more valuable if he kept it for himself, I would love an ORIGINAL copy it's part of the collecting game, I certainly don't blame him for buying it I only wish I got there before hand. Incidentally the shop in question had three copies ! thewaiter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:08:58 +0000 From: Paul Denman Subject: Small Wonder To: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU -------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998- Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Just a small word of caution; maybe we should not discuss personal matters such as Numan juniors until we get clarification on the 'bad news'. The Online Forum at AFEnet.com has already ditched the rumours... Probably best to do so here also. With best intentions & wishes... =3D=3D=3D Paul Denman -------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998--- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:29:29 -0700 From: Pythoness Subject: What the HELL is wrong with s/f lyrics?!? To: digest@garynumanfan.nu (Gary Numan) > "I think Gary Numan is under- >appreciated as a melody writer", Merritt >tells me the day before they meet. "Probably >he upstages himself with make-up and costumes, >etc, and science fiction lyrics." Not that that Great Serious Artiste David Bowie ever "upstaged himself" with makeup and costumes, did he? And why are people always capping on science fiction lyrics, like a song with a futuristic motif can't be deeper and more thought-provoking than YET ANOTHER drivelly crappy mim-mim-mim woooh baby boy-meets/loses/screws/kills-girl song? I can't tell you how that annoys me! I mean, for some time now science fiction has been accepted as literature in the publishing world--why the hell can't it be accepted as serious music in, for gods' sake, the POP world?! But noo--for some reason, anyone who blurts out a science-fiction oriented lyric is immediately brushed off by the music press--in fact, I suspect this was one of Gary's biggest problems when he started out. Faugh!!! The music biz is SADLY LACKING IN IMAGINATION. Disgruntledly, zg Pestmaster (zigi@ravenland.com) Ziggy's House O' Vermin http://www.ravenland.com/index.htm/index.htm ------------------------- Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule. --Gandalf ------------------------------ End of Gary Numan Digest ****************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, datta@cs.uwp.edu, Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@GaryNumanFan.NU If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: digest-request@GaryNumanFan.NU ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Gary Numan Digest is brought to you via Joey Lindstrom and the GaryNUmanFan server Joey@GaryNumanFan.NU All of the opinions in this digest belong to the respective authors and do not necessarily agree with those of the Digest Producers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Produced and distributed by Derek Langsford dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, mail to: digest@garynumanfan.nu If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, you can mail to digest-request@garynumanfan.nu --------------------------------------------------------------------------