--------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T (by subscription only - to unsubscribe, see bottom of this message) --------------------------------------------------------------------- (#2002-11) - Topics This Issue: 1) Random thoughts... 2) Did I say everything? 3) Ziggy 4) I, Assasin and Worriors: count my vote too! 5) more Numan related on Epitomic 6) Digest (03/20/2002 18:01) (#2002-10) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:33:03 -0600 From: "Mark V. Anderson" Subject: Random thoughts... I think Gary's complaints about tech problems are perfectly valid. The very idea that even the Radar recorders (which are notoriously very reliable) are on the fritz is frightening. When you have music like Gary's new material, that relies on complex electronics, you need those electronics to function. If you look at Pure, most of the sound is driven by very heavily produced guitar, sourrounded by a massive wall of even more heavily produced synth swirl. While he could have gotten a skeleton's worth of musical inspiration out of some simple guitar work alone, the electronics are what make the music. On the same topic though, I don't think some "back to basics" work would be bad. Some of what made his early material so great was the lack of fine tuned production and odd song writing techniques. In fact most of what made me the obsessed fan I am, was Gary's early very creative and definitely self-taught synth programming. I think it would be excellent if Gary would spend some time honing his programming skills in the tech hell recess. Even if he had to drag the old minimoog out of the garage, I'd like to hear what he'd do with it now. Babbling incoherently on...I think Beggar's Banquet is being dishonest. They've fought every re-release since day 1 and pushed back release dates years at a time. I don't care if there are 50 nu-junk compilations out there, they can at least make up for their original lack of promotion for I Assassin and Warriors by releasing them on CD. Perhaps I don't fully understand the delicate process of operating a soulless music machine like Beggar's Banquet, or maybe I'm just conspiratorial, but the label is digging its heels in yet again with another invalid excuse... One more thing. I don't think there is any relationship between pressure and Gary's music. I think it simply has to do with what Gary puts into the music. -Mark Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:50:38 -0500 From: "Troy L. Walters" Subject: Did I say everything? This seems to be one of the small problems we encounter here in this forum... not having ALL the information. Don't ya think Gary was simply trying to get some information to the fans? I'm sure he was completely aware of the time span between posts. He doesn't owe any of us an update AT ALL! He does something to try and appease the rabid, and it just pisses them off more... he can't win. Not even with his so called fans. Pathetic, really. One piece that no one seems to remember is that Gary himself has made it known he is using Richard this go around for the drum parts. Yes, he may still be creating samples and piecing them together in the studio - but he is still creating the music himself and using a real musician to accomplish his goal. Which even if it's a sample CD he gets the loops from, they are normally compiled by a real musician. Even commercially available midi is "normally" triggered on an electronic drum kit - for realism. By the way, what was the last commercially available work by any of these armchair critics? This is just the latest round of Gary bashing... I think Gary will start worrying about what the fans are saying when they actually stop saying anything. Look back at all the noise before Pure - or Exile - or Sacrifice - or Berserker. I imagine a few people feel pretty stupid about the comments they made. Not that there aren't aspects that could have been done differently. Would it make them better? Won't know, will we? But of course, those starting all the noise have accomplished _so_ much that they are experts on how Gary should do things and how he's ruining his own career. What label was that you work for? Or was it an agent? Producer maybe? I don't play well with others either, but it's simply good form to have some degree of manners. Criticism is being made of something Gary has not even completed yet! Do you read the things you type before you send them? And to clarify... My last post did not say, nor imply, that *we* like everything Gary does. I am not some mindless fan that gushes over everything Gary does - there are a number of songs he has done that I simply can not listen to. My choice. You have one too... if you don't like what he has done, don't listen to it. But at least give the guy a chance to actually DO something before you tear him apart over it. That's not saying you do not have the right to voice your opinion - you do, and I will defend that to my death. BUT... it comes off a little - unpleasant - when you criticize something that does not even exist yet. People thought Gary was insane for using electronics in '79. Think about what it would be like if he had simply stuck to the guitar and kept Jess playing drums. I doubt that we'd have Pure to listen to today. In fact, I doubt Gary would be doing anything remotely like he is today. I hope I didn't get any on ya! Troy L. Walters Indiana, USA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:58:32 EST From: MHENSON305@aol.com Subject: Ziggy Ziggy, personal observations (mine) & wry comments (Craig Stenseth's) were not vindictive or malicious towards Gary. Many people I know who make their music that is totally pc based or used as part of their set up, have had problems with their computers than I have had with my outboard set up, ie none. My posting on the digest was out of mere frustration with modern technology & the fact that Gary can't make any music until the techno gremlins have been exorcised from his machines. This means that any planned release date for a new album/tour etc has to be put back & consequently us fans have to wait longer to hear & see "THE MAN". Basically, I ache with a dark passion to hear Gary's new stuff & like most fans I am fed up with these regurgitated back catalogue compilation cds. Even more so that Gary doesn't get a single euro/cent/penny from them. Now that is what I call "extracting the urine". What's the point of having his own web site if he doesn't keep us informed on what's going on. Also Ziggy, the digest is a discussion forum about Gary & his music & all I have done is open up a new topic for constructive discussion. Don't get vertigo up there on your soap box ! Mark Henson The music of Gary Numan is what The Devil hears in His sleep. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:59:35 -0500 From: "Shin'ichi UEDA" Subject: I, Assasin and Worriors: count my vote too! Hello, fellow Numan fans. Count my vote too for moving BB to reissuing two Numan (I think) masterpieces unreissued as single albums. I think reissuing both albums is still necessary. The most important thing for me is ARTWORKS. I think I don't have to speak anything about I, Assasin. On the other hand, though I don't like the cover of Worriors personally, still I want to have it's faithful and mint artworks reprinted. All we have is too small and terribly poor ones appeared on former coupled reissues. Shin UEDA, from Japan for Japanuman and CM2S 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos. http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:51 -0600 (CST) From: machman@netdirect.net Subject: more Numan related on Epitomic There was a link posted on AFENET.com about I Am Spoonbender, and the link to Numan. I had never looked around the Epitonic site before, and they list no less than 14 current bands with either having ties to or influences by Numan. From the description, several of these sound like they are worth checking out! Here is the link. http://www.epitonic.com/cgi-bin/perlfect/search/search.pl?q=numan Mark Hubbard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:14:30 -0000 From: "antonio" Subject: Re: Digest (03/20/2002 18:01) (#2002-10) > We like what Gary does because Gary does it. Speak for yourself Troy - I find that attitude unhealthy*. Just because Gary does something does not automatically make it a work of art This is true. Just because Gary does something doesn't make it great. No arguments there. ("Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I give you six minutes of audio hell: 'I'm on Automatic', followed by the 'On Broadway' duet with Leo Sayer"). But Gary did neither of these arocities alone. They were both the result of colaborations. Abborations, even. The Leo Sayer thing was for a Leo Sayer tv show - Gary trying to get himself across to a wider audience. I have nothing against Leo Sayer at all - my mum would kill me if I said a word against him and tobe fair he is a million times morecredible that gareth fucking gates or will frigging whateverhisnameis. >>I believe history proves that Gary works best under pressure anyway >I think a case could be made to prove exactly the opposite. What pressure >was Gary under when he produced 'Replicas'? Erem... he hd an advance from a record company and at 21 years old something to prove? He had about a week of studio time and an album to record? He had a millon ideas and was able only to record only about 10 songs? I am sure there were pressures - he didn't have any guaranteed sales from a hardcore of fans, for one :) >Compare that to the financial desperation that drips from every semi-plagiarised chord of 'Machine & Soul'. And didn't he put out Sacrifice - perhaps his best album of the past 20 years - when pretty much everyone had given up on him? This does not alter the fact that - and this may well be news to some - some people - I personally know two of them - *prefer* machine and soul to Sacrifice, Exile and Pure. As for semi-plagarised - what about Pure? If Machine and Soul was the result of Gary listening to Prince, Janet Jackson and Faith No More (and I know for a fact that's what he was listening to - he told me himself at the time) then Pure is the result of someone who listens to a lot of Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails and various obscure goth bands. But in both cases, the albums have a Numan twist. Marilyn Manson is as incapable of writing anything as subtle and sublime as 'A Prayer For The Unborn' as Janet Jackson is of writing 'Love Isolation'. >I'd disagree with this on a number of fronts. First, Gary's life is hardly an open door. The posting about tech hell was his first in over a month; and if the previous entry - about his parent's caravan being nicked - goes straight to the heart of Gary's character, then I'm a little worried. With respect - why? If Gary wants to post on HIS website that his mum and dads caravan has been stolen - why is there a problem? It is embarrassing to whom exactly? For fucks sake, Gary Numan is a human being. He can put what he wants onto his own web site. There were never any complaints about the stuff he put in fan club newsletters in the past - adverts for Numan disco's... someone would hire a fucking function room in a pub and then play nothing but Numan from 7pm - 11pm on a friday night, to about 7 paying customers all dressed like Gary Numan... I bloody well ran a couple of the things - they were fun bbut jesus... if anyone outside the Numan society found out about those and the fact that the fan club advertised them freely - a story about a stolen caravan (because at least it features crime...) would seem cool news :> >But I would concede that maybe Gary should stop posting these stories about tech problems. Because it seems to me - and I confess that I have no psychology qualifications whatsoever - that he's using these as a crutch. I do not agree. I think e is apologising for the delay in new material and simply explaining too much to the fans because he respects us and wants to keep us informed. When Kate Bush releases and says nothing at all for 15 years, she is respected and her fans say, 'She is a genius, genius takes time.' when in fact what she has been doing is bringing up her child and music has not been an issue to her at all, which is fair enough and good luck to her because she *is* a genius - but when Numan tells people, 'My studio blew up and my caravan was abducted by aliens' his fans all go, 'Oh, excuses, excuses.' >How many times over the last few years has Gary apologised for the slow >development of an album because he was rebuilding his studio or buying a new >Mac? At least he tries to keep us aware of the fact he is still recording it. He could just as easily say nothing. > Remember, we've had two albums in the >last *six years*. I bet his studio doesn't have 'sweatshop' written above >the door. Yes. And George Michael, David Bowie, The Cure, Tori Amos, PJ Harvey, The Human League, Pink Floyd etc have been SO prolific. My point is, serious, long-term artists, are never prolific. Who released an album or two a year? Oh - Kylie. Robbie Williams. Steps - the people who have to reklese release release because they have a short shelf-life (sorry Kylie - you had a long-term carrer but you have now blown it). Look at the Pop Stars band Heresy. One album was a hit. The second, released just 6 months later - nobody cared. Now, Heresy are yesterdays news - just another joke. Gary Numan could release an album in 10 years time and it wil be just as well recieved as Pure, if it is of the same quality. Heresy, if they released the best album ever made tomorrow, would just be laughed at. This is how the pop industry works. Gary Numan is an artist who has survived past the point of being just a figure of fun. He is probably now the new wave johnny cash. Respected. >The original poster had it spot-on, and it was constructive criticism that >would help Gary. A little bit more time spent strumming his guitar or >jamming with the band might produce a less predictable album in the future. I think we should leave Gary to produce whatever album he wants to. After all - the last time he was really free to do just that was the sublime Sacrifice - which in my opinion is about 10 times better than the merely very very good Pure and better even than the fantastic Exile. Sacrifice was the result, I fell, of Gary Numan deciding to make a Gary Numan album rather than a hit album. Exile was a concept album, Pure felt like an album Gary wanted Nu Metal fans to like. I prefer Gary Numan albums, myself :) All this is my opinion, and i can easily be swayed once sober :D toni ------------------------------ End digest@garynuman.info Digest [03/21/2002 18:01] --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced, moderated, and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, davdat@allmusic.com, Joey@GaryNuman.Info ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@garynuman.info If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: listserv@GaryNuman.info and include this line as the first line of your message body: SUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) or UNSUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) (email address is optional but useful if you have multiple addresses) If you want to switch between receiving Digests or individual posts, again send to listserv@GaryNuman.Info and include either of these in your message body: NORMAL digest@garynuman.info or DIGEST digest@garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: this mailing list is configured to automatically unsubscribe you if mail to your mailbox goes undeliverable for any reason. If you suddenly stop receiving this list, you should assume you've been automatically unsubscribed and should then manually resubscribe. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The Gary Numan Digest is produced with the facilities of the Gary Numan Info Server and The Interocitor. All of the opinions in this digest belong to the respective authors and do not necessarily agree with those of the Digest Producers. This digest is published in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and is governed by all applicable Canadian laws. --------------------------------------------------------------------------