--------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T (by subscription only - to unsubscribe, see bottom of this message) --------------------------------------------------------------------- (#2002-62) - Topics This Issue: 1) Oh, carp and double carp 2) Interesting Appeal 3) Interesting appeal 4) Interesting appeal (more) 5) Digest (05/23/2002 18:01) (#2002-61) 6) Exposure 7) Exposure... would that be the follow-up to 'Photograph'? 8) Exposure, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:10:28 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Oh, carp and double carp On Thu, 23 May 2002 18:02:20 -0600, Tom Gorham wrote: >An interesting appeal on Gary's site for fans to buy the Exposure album >this week to enable it to get into the charts. > >Does this mean Gary actually cares about chart music again (I thought he >mentioned he'd given up on it a couple of years back)? And does the >appeal also apply to those fans who criticise certain aspects of his >recent output, whom Gary rather pompously told recently to go away and >listen to someone else? As I'm one of those consistent carpers, I wonder >if he's calling a truce for this week :) > >Sigh. Well I'll ignore Gary's taunts and fork out for this one I >suppose. Off out now. Well, y'know something, I'd kinda hoped we could keep this Digest free of that particular topic, but since you've opened up the can of worms, well... time to deal with it, and you. I've shown some of the "carping" pages from the AFENET UBB to a few people who know nothing about Numan, giving them no prior information about what it was they were about to read (other than the UBB was a place that Numan fans congregated to chat about Numan), and then asked for their opinion. The unanimous opinion was that the "carpers", a group to which you claim membership, are nothing but a bunch of sad tossers who are there for one or both of two reasons: 1) To spread some of the misery of their own sad lives to others, presumably because they get their kicks from such things. They're disillusioned, so they feel the need to make sure everybody else becomes disillusioned. 2) Because they're not Numan fans, probably never were, and feel the sadistic need to ruin something that other people happen to enjoy. For those who don't frequent the UBB (ie: for those of you in the upper levels of intelligence), here's a quick backgrounder: For quite some time now, a large percentage of the posts on the UBB (including, recently, posts by the system's owner, Rob Eggleston, a man who I consider a good friend but whose actions leave me shaking my head sometimes) have been nothing more than bitter, anti-Numan moaning and bitching. Now hey, I'm all in favour of some constructive criticism: nobody is perfect, least of all Gary Numan (and to his credit, he's the first to admit it). But y'know... I thought the basic reason we were there was because, at some level, we were FANS of the man. We didn't have to like everything he's ever done (musically, professionally, socially, whatever), but at SOME LEVEL we were fans. Weren't we? Apparently not. The tone has been FIERCELY bitter against Gary. Shit, no WONDER the guy is on record as saying he doesn't bother with the "chat rooms" and has no intention of setting one up on NuWorld. In his position, I wouldn't give these tossers the forum to slag me off either. Anyways, things came to a head just before his last concerts. Seems the guy was having a myriad of technical problems and, as a result, was NOT able to play any new material at the gigs. Since he had earlier said he would do so, he stated on his website that anybody who wanted a ticket refund could certainly have one. But he didn't stop there. I wish I'd clipped a copy of what he did say, because it doesn't seem to be on his site anymore and it was abso-freakin'-lutely brilliant, an awesome put-down of all the so-called fans who find something to criticize in EVER SINGLE THING he does. What it boiled down to was this (I'm paraphrasing him and I could get some of the essentials wrong: feel free to correct me if that's the case): he said that he's quite happy with what he's doing, where his career is going, and how his life in general is going, and anybody who calls themselves a fan on the one hand, but slangs him at every opportunity on the other hand, is cordially invited to fuck off. Fans like this, he doesn't need. Don't come to the gigs, don't buy the CD's. Save us all the headaches and just go find yourself somebody else to be a "fan" of. There were a few other good points he made, but that's all I can remember off the top of my head. The UBB "fans" went ballistic over this. And I laughed my head off. Because Gary was absolutely right. Mr. Gorham, if you truly count yourself among the "carpers", then *I* cordially invite *YOU* to sign off the Numan Digest and go find somewhere else to play. I mean, c'mon. You rag on him, you point out every possible flaw in his character that you can spot... and in the next paragraph you tell us you're going to go buy his new album? Buddy, you just lost ANY credibility you might once have had. Anything you write in this forum from here on in, we're going to measure it against this load of bollocks. If Gary Numan is such an asshole, and has such low musical cred, and is so out of touch, and is so derivative, and is so this and that and the other, then WHY the hell are you still here? WHY are you going to buy this new compilation? Gary asked those who were PLANNING TO BUY IT ANYWAY, to, IF POSSIBLE, buy it during the first week. Again, why were you planning to buy it at all? Might I point out that it's folks like you that have been the strongest critics of all these compilations in the past? Why do you waste my time and yours? Why won't you get a life? If I seem a little worked up over this, it's because I am. I've had enough of this bullshit from "fans" such as yourself, Mr. Gorham, and it's the reason I don't bother with the UBB anymore. Criticism is one thing, but what you people are doing is way, WAY beyond the pale. Fish or cut bait, Mr. Gorham: you are either a fan or you are not a fan. And if you're not a fan, then kindly don't let the door slam on your ass on your way out. Administrator Hat: ON I have never censored the content of this Digest in any way (I've nudged a few people back on topic, but that's it), but I caution you right now: if this Digest starts sliding downhill the way the UBB has, I'm going to put the brakes on it right quick. I'm not going to allow you and your cronies to destroy something that has been a valuable resource for Numan fans for something like 12 years now. So take your negative emotional baggage back to the UBB where it will be appreciated - it is NOT wanted here. And might I also suggest... get some professional help. Administrator Hat: OFF Sorry for the rant, folks, but this needed to be said. / From the desk of Joey Lindstrom / / There aren't enough days in the weekend. / --Steven Wright ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 02:18:00 EDT From: MHENSON305@aol.com Subject: Re: Interesting Appeal Tom, take your bitter comments elsewhere. Mark Henson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:03:19 -0700 From: Rod Reynolds Subject: Re: Interesting appeal Hey. I don't think I know the author of the original post, so I wouldn't presume to question his intentions. And I don't know anything about what Joey was talking about... although I have heard Numan say similar things at various points in his career. But I do have a point to make regarding what he (the poster) actually said, regarding Gary 'actually caring' about chart music, and his sales figures. It's the music BUSINESS, and like the movie BUSINESS, you are only as good as your last 'product'. Not as 'good' artistically as it may or may not have been, but specifically how well it sold. How much money it made. If Jennifer Lopez' first album had bombed, as it was expected to do (an actor singing? hah. ), there would not have been another Jennifer Lopez album. At least not on Columbia Records. Even if you are an 'established' artist, if you have one or two low selling albums in a row, you will likely be dropped. Just ask Mariah Carey. This is as true of small, independent artists as much as it is for superstars, albeit on a different scale. If Gary's new compilation does as well as Premier Hits did a few years ago, it bodes very well for the next studio album, or anything Gary decides to do next. If the new album is a success, the record company will be able to justify promotion money for the next one. More promotion money means the next album may sell more. And so on. It's as simple as that. As you may know, I worked for Cleopatra for a few years, and before that I worked for Sony Music. For the past five years I have worked for Rhino Records. People were (and are) constantly giving me things to 'pass on to the higher ups'. Additionally, I have my own pet projects and artists that I feel worthy of a push. Good example - Marc Almond. I had read that for his last album which was released in the UK only, he was looking for US distribution. I took the cd to Cleopatra, and said, look, it's MARC ALMOND (MARC ALMOND!!) and the album's already made, and he wants to tour the US. So Brian looked up Marc's sales figures (they subscribe to a music industry database where album sales are recorded), and he told me the numbers on the last few Marc Almond albums. I don't remember any of the figures (I never do - he's told me the figures for the Numan cds yet I couldn't possibly repeat them - because I can't remember them!) but they weren't that good (for Marc Almond). (or for Numan) He listened to the cd, and a few days later he called me back, and said, that he thought the album wasn't that great, and quote, 'the kind of cd you buy, listen to once then file away'. Despite the fact that I think it's a good album, I must admit, that's exactly what happened to my copy. The point is, sales figures for any album are available, are resourced, and are used in consideration for any new projects. Another good example- Beggars deciding not to release the final two re-issues. They probably looked at the sales of the last 5 Numan cds, all of which were compilations (except for Pure - one of the strongest yet absolutely most poorly promoted Numan cds in history), and said, well, look how many copies his last album sold, can we turn a profit by selling only that many copies? Their answer, sadly, was no. Not realizing of course, to us fans, there is a HUGE difference between yet another Receiver (or whatever their new disguise is) cheapo recycled compilation, and the last TWO of the BEGGARS CLASSICS remastered, which we have been drooling for (at least I have) for at least four years now, when they released the magnificent remastered first six of the eight. Yeah, it's all about creative freedom, expression, music, love. Yeah yeah yeah. But a record company simply can't continually put out records that don't sell. Unfortunately, I don't know how to make a difference. But knowing it, as they say, is half the battle. I guess. My point, which I hope has survived through this round about rambling, is that it is CRUCIAL if you are a Numan fan, and want more Numan cds, dvds, singles, etc for you to BUY the new album. It all comes down to MONEY and SALES. It's the same for any band or artist. Rod los Angeles > > An interesting appeal on Gary's site for fans to buy the Exposure album > this week to enable it to get into the charts. > > Does this mean Gary actually cares about chart music again (I thought he > mentioned he'd given up on it a couple of years back)? And does the > appeal also apply to those fans who criticise certain aspects of his > recent output, whom Gary rather pompously told recently to go away and > listen to someone else? As I'm one of those consistent carpers, I wonder > if he's calling a truce for this week :) > > Sigh. Well I'll ignore Gary's taunts and fork out for this one I > suppose. Off out now. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:21:08 -0700 From: Rod Reynolds Subject: Re: Interesting appeal (more) Hi. Another thing I wanted to mention in passing. Way back in the late 80's there was a UK dance band that I loved very much - Vicious Pink. They worked on Soft Cell's first album, and they made several 12" singles that were quite wonderful. Take Me Now, Cccan't You See, Fetish, etc. Produced by Tony Mansfield. (!!) At the time I was running an import record shop in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, and we sold TONS of Vicious Pink, even though their records were not even available in Canada (we imported our stuff by air directly from the UK and Germany). We played them in the store, they repeatedly topped our charts which we mailed out to everyone all over the world (including Vicious Pink themselves). We sold enough copies of their 12"s that eventually Capitol Records compiled them all into a rough version of an album (released only in Canada and only on vinyl - if anyone has any Vicious Pink on cd please please please let me know). Anyway, two of their singles, I think it was Cccan't You See, and Take Me Now sold very consistently in the UK, but in small numbers that did not register on the charts. But we were told that if they took the sales figures from one month of their sales and put them all into one week, they would have hit the top ten (in the UK). Thus enabling them to release a hit album. They were in fact a hit, but they did not have the chart figures to back them up. They never did make another album. (well, they never actually made an album at all). So... my point... and I do have one... If everyone who is planning on buying the new Numan compilation, in the UK, does buy it in the first week, the sales figures will have far more impact than if everyone just casually picks up a copy over a six week period... Rod los Angeles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 06:59:58 EDT From: Zerfboy@aol.com Subject: Re: Digest (05/23/2002 18:01) (#2002-61) ever notice how Gary and Jerk both have four letters . . . hmmmmm. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:50:21 -0400 From: Zoe Small Subject: Exposure Does anyone happen to know when Exposure is going to be available in Canada? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:50:23 -0500 From: "Val & Ben Iglar-Mobley" Subject: Re: Exposure... would that be the follow-up to 'Photograph'? > When I was doing the Cleo remasters Gary told me he > didn't like any remixes of his songs, but even he must have > liked that one, since he put it on the Pure re-issue. On that note, does anyone know if Gary had any say in choosing the songs for 'Exposure'? Does this at all reflect his own choice of favorites of his songs? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 18:58:24 +0000 From: "Colin Linskey" Subject: Exposure, etc. Hello everyone!!! Execellent album, Exposure, with the title track instrumental, probably one of Numan's best ever instrumentals, and the new versions of My Shadow In Vain & Everyday I Die very welcome, but familiar from the recent live performances. Also welcome is the 12" of Music For Chameleons, though it has to contain some of Gary's worst lyrics... :-) Great artwork with Gary's face, but I wish the title etc, was hortizontally accross the top or bottom. It looks crap, to put it bluntly. But what's certainly not crap is the 29 tracks in it... It'll be interesting to see what it charts at in the new chart this weekend... Looking forward to more UK dates in September. Perhaps this time, he'll fill Glasgow Barrowland as originally planned last time, and not the smaller capacity Garage he palyed in last time... Colin _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ End digest@garynuman.info Digest [05/24/2002 18:01] --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced, moderated, and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, davdat@allmusic.com, Joey@GaryNuman.Info Back Issues: http://digest.garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@garynuman.info If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: listserv@GaryNuman.info and include this line as the first line of your message body: SUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) or UNSUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) (email address is optional but useful if you have multiple addresses) If you want to switch between receiving Digests or individual posts, again send to listserv@GaryNuman.Info and include either of these in your message body: NORMAL digest@garynuman.info or DIGEST digest@garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: this mailing list is configured to automatically unsubscribe you if mail to your mailbox goes undeliverable for any reason. 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