--------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T (by subscription only - to unsubscribe, see bottom of this message) --------------------------------------------------------------------- (#2002-120) - Topics this issue: 1) Pitching forks, 2) Is it Numan or not?, 3) Digest (08/06/2002 18:01) (#2002-119), 4) Purify this!, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 06:57:46 -0600 From: "Joey Lindstrom" Subject: Pitching forks On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 18:02:13 -0600, The Benmeister wrote: >Isn't the question of whether something has gotten an official pressing or >not a meaningful distinction? I was just gonna ask a question on those lines. For those who got to see the 1998 concert tour in North America (and I assume the earlier UK tour as well), Gary performed a re-worked version of "Friends". Most of the original lyrics were there, but the music was COMPLETELY different. Much of that music was later found in the song "Pure". Does this version of "Friends" qualify as a unique song? It was never "officially" released but there's lots of bootlegs of it floating around. :-) >I mean, if he wrote something and then gave it away to another artist to be >recorded, I think then it's become part of that other artist's ouevre-- not >Gary's. > >> The others are "Found You Now", which Gary gets a co- >> writing credit for (I don't remember if he also plays on the >> track), and "Style Kills". > >But has Gary ever played either of those songs live? > >He HAS played songs like "Stormtrooper In Drag," "Love Needs No Disguise" or >even "U Got The Look" live. Sure, but I don't recall ever hearing him play "River" or "Interval 3" or even some of the new "Pure" tracks live. If we could get a complete listing of all the setlists from all of his concerts, I think you'd find a LARGE number of his own songs, songs that nobody would argue weren't "his", that he's never played live. I really don't think we should use this as a valid criteria. On the other hand, this brings up the question "yeah, but has he ever played these songs AT ALL, either live or in studio?" The answer is YES with "Style Kills", but it is NO with "Found You Now". He co-wrote both with Palmer and played on one, but not the other. Should we include only the one he played on? It's a muddy line. >> Ben asked should these count, well, that also brings up the >> question of whether Tik n Toks 'Show me something real' >> should count, as Gary played keyboards... > >> Do hohokam count as Numan produced their singles? > >See, I wouldn't count those as "his," toni. They're songs to which he made >a contribution, but they're not part of his own catalog. To my thinking >anyway. I'd agree that simply producing somebody else's song, or playing on it, should not in and of itself qualify that song as becoming one of "his". I do wonder, though, about a complete re-working, such as what he did with Projekt Pitchfork's song. Yes, he did retain the original melody, but otherwise it was a completely new musical composition. Should THIS one qualify? :-) I dunno about the purists, but it's definitely one song that I've included on my Numan mix disc that I play in the car - the song ROCKS and is VERY Numan. :-) >One major determinant, I think, is who sings a song. Let's be honest, pop >music is very singer-dominated. Ever been to a concert for a musical >group-- a band, not a solo performer-- and had the musicians come out onto >the stage and then the singer step out last... at which point the audience >thunders its applause? Now, why the emphasis on the singer if she or he is >just one musician in the group? > >We connect most directly with the singer. Not all of us can play a musical >instrument, but we all have a voice. Not all of us have taken classes in >music theory and so not all of us can translate the musical language being >expressed by the instruments, but when a singer is using the language we've >learned from birth we can understand that element immediately. I agree, but I listen to the Pitchfork song knowing that it's not Gary's VOICE I'm listening to, but definitely his MUSIC. That's what I connect with. There's a few Simon & Garfunkle tunes out there that only Paul Simon sings in. Are these Paul Simon songs, or does Art Garfunkle get to include them in the list of "his" songs? Again, it's a muddy line. :-) / From the desk of Joey Lindstrom / / A government-supported artist is an incompetent whore. / -- Jubal Harshaw, "Stranger In A Strange Land" / (Robert Heinlein) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:06:09 +0100 From: "David Dickinson" Subject: Is it Numan or not? Regarding the debate as to what constitutes a Gary Numan song eligible to be included in polls, this is my theory (for what it's worth). One simple way of deciding is, has the song been released by either Gary Numan, Tubeway Army or Gary Numan Featuring... (Radio Heart,Dramatis, Da Da Dang ETC...). If it has not, then really it is not part of the Gary Numan catalogue, and his presence on any other song is simply as a guest artist, a sort of cameo role. Before anyone writes in, yes I know "Stormtrooper in drag" doesn't fit the above criteria, and this is the only release where I would make an exception, as it's generally considered to be more of a Gary Numan record than a Paul Gardiner one (Gary sings/plays on it, he co-wrote it, the b-side appears on Dance,and the a-side on premier hits, and it came out on Beggars Banquet - so I think this one, and only this one really does count). So, "U got the look" would definitely qualify, as he released it as a Gary Numan record (even though it's not his song),on the other hand," Redirected mail" would not qualify, as it is just a guest vocal by Gary on someone else's record (and only a b-side at that!). I think this rule is far simpler for everyone to grasp, if his names on the cover (Gary Numan/Tubeway Army/Gary Featuring..) it counts, if it's not, it doesn't! Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:12:24 +0200 From: "Hansi Slanec" Subject: Re: Digest (08/06/2002 18:01) (#2002-119) > He HAS played songs like "Stormtrooper In Drag," "Love Needs No Disguise" or > even "U Got The Look" live. > What about "Hetrodyne" and "Pulse Bass" from the one off shows in 2001 then? Do they count? Or are they "just" Versions of later songs. When they came to stage, noone knew of "later songs". Hansi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:08:59 +0100 From: Dryad Subject: Purify this! > http://www.fshs1981.org/troywalters/mp3/ > > There's a link to a remix/edited/extended version of Walking With Shadows. > > It would be good to hear what others think. I liked it. Dryad -- http://www.puritycontrol.co.uk - XF rec's at The Grove, updated 7/17/02 ------------------------------ End digest@garynuman.info Digest [08/07/2002 18:01] --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced, moderated, and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, davdat@allmusic.com, Joey@GaryNuman.Info Back Issues: http://digest.garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@garynuman.info If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: listserv@GaryNuman.info and include this line as the first line of your message body: SUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) or UNSUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) (email address is optional but useful if you have multiple addresses) If you want to switch between receiving Digests or individual posts, again send to listserv@GaryNuman.Info and include either of these in your message body: NORMAL digest@garynuman.info or DIGEST digest@garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: this mailing list is configured to automatically unsubscribe you if mail to your mailbox goes undeliverable for any reason. 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