--------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T (by subscription only - to unsubscribe, see bottom of this message) --------------------------------------------------------------------- (#2002-134) - Topics this issue: 1) b-sided, 2) Is Gary older than he looks???, 3) N/A, 4) Top 5 B-Sides, 5) And the winner is..., 6) poll results... posted, 7) Top of the Pops 2, 8) Top 5 B-Sides, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:19:27 -0500 From: Paddy Subject: b-sided I always liked "We Need it", which I think was the back for Your Fascination. If I remember correctly, the production could have been better on it. Of course, I had a really crappy stereo back then. I thought "I Don't Believe" should have been the A-side of whatever it was on the other side. "We are so Fragile" was a favorite for years,although in its Living Ornaments '79 incarnation. Once I heard the studio version I thought it sounded as if it was perhaps the first experiment with keyboards. I have missed out on any B's from I Assassin, Warriors, or Berserker. Somehow I just never got to hear any of them. paddy www.thicknet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 03:22:54 +0200 From: Martin Gilbert Subject: Is Gary older than he looks??? It seems that all music.com think Gary is somewhat older than previously thought. I'm also curious as to how good he played his role as a lion in this old Tarzan movie - anybody seen it??? Here's the link. http://allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=BP104744 Martin Gilbert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:41:32 -0400 From: Subject: OK, I would have to say that picking my top five could be very tough, but without hesitation, here are a couple that would ALWAYS be in my top 5 B-side listing. The Image Is... what can I say, other than the songs moves me. I have been known to rewind and play this song MANY times in a row, and have even had days where it may be the only song I listen to in the car. It is emotional, and has a nice variation throughout the song. I Don't Believe... Unfriggin believably powerfull! Angst, agression, points well made, and all to a song that is both uniquely Numan and able to be accepted quite well on the pop charts at the time. I NEVER understood why this one was not a single, as I thought it would certainly have done better than the actual singles from the same release. Also, although not "played" by Gary, the Piano version of DITP just realy rips me up. I have played that for people not knowing it is Gary, and they are just blown away by the piece. So, Even tho it vould not technically be on my B-side list of Gary's, I just had to point out how much I love it. As for others, they would change over time, as I have felt for years that he has had SO MANY great B-sides, I have often wondered why they were only B-sides. I have made tapes years ago, Just to play all my B- sides and unreleased stuff. Mark Hubbard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:41:53 +0200 From: "Hansi Slanec" Subject: Top 5 B-Sides Here are the results of the Austrian Jury 1) Noise Noise 2) The Image is 3) We are so fragile 4) She Cries 5) Play like god I have spoken Hansi, the Austrian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:54:41 -0400 From: "Cary Wiltz" Subject: And the winner is... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C24FF2.1D62F660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My favorite B-sides: 5. "On Broadway"(haunting, dreamy end sequence especially on = video...classic, thought provoking expressions!) 4. "Face to Face/Letters" 3. "Noise Noise" 2. "Glitter and Ash" (can't think of any other Numan song which has = synths crying out so loud to be heard) 1. "The Image Is" (speaks for itself) Cary ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C24FF2.1D62F660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My favorite = B-sides:
 
5.  "On = Broadway"(haunting,=20 dreamy end sequence especially on video...classic, thought=20 provoking expressions!)
4.  "Face to=20 Face/Letters"
3.  "Noise = Noise"
2.  "Glitter and Ash" = (can't think of=20 any other Numan song which has synths crying out so loud to be=20 heard)
1.  "The Image Is" = (speaks for=20 itself)
 
 
Cary
------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C24FF2.1D62F660-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:12:44 -0500 From: "Val & Ben Iglar-Mobley" Subject: poll results... posted It's been over a week since we announced the results of the singles poll and posted the web address for the countdown (still up, at http://digest.garynuman.info/topten2002.html ) ... but it's been eerily silent since then. Is no one interested in the results? Does no one want to discuss what they mean? I'm wondering if maybe not everybody has gone to the web site to check out what the results are, if maybe we have people on the list who would prefer to hear about whatever through the emails on the Dige itself (like, uh, me, as evidenced by my ignorance about the "Rip" single even after it was announced on Gary's site). Well, since we've had plenty of time for everybody to go and check out the results who wanted to see them (or hear them, as it were) in the glorious splendor as Joey set them up in the web pages devoted to the results, I figure it's safe to go ahead and pass them along here, just so we all have the data to refer to... so that we can start the bitter, rancorous arguing about what they mean! (I'm kidding, of course! Obviously, we would NEVER get into any arguments here!) So, here are the results, top to bottom, with weighted score and number of entries each appeared on: 1) I Die: You Die (66, 20) 2) Down In The Park (43, 14) 3) Rip (41, 12) 4) Are 'Friends' Electric? (40, 12) 5) Cars (38, 10) 6) We Are Glass (37, 12) 7) Music For Chameleons (19, 6) 8) Sister Surprise (18, 4) 9) She's Got Claws (17, 7) 10) Absolution (17, 6) 11) Complex (17, 5) 12) We Take Mystery (To Bed) (16, 5) Call Out The Dogs (16, 5) 14) Dominion Day (15, 6) 15) Warriors (15, 4) 16) A Question Of Faith (14, 6) 17) The Skin Game (9, 5) 18) Change Your Mind (9, 4) Like A Refugee (I Won't Cry) (9, 4) 20) White Boys & Heroes (8, 3) 21) Your Fascination (8, 2) 22) Berserker (7, 3) Heart (7, 3) 24) Stormtrooper In Drag (6, 2) 25) Love Needs No Disguise (5, 3) 26) New Thing From London Town (5, 2) All Across The Nation (5, 2) America (5, 2) 29) Remember I Was Vapour (5, 1) Voices (5, 1) 31) This Is Love (4, 1) 32) This Wreckage (3, 1) Remind Me To Smile (3,1) I Still Remember (RSPCA) (3, 1) No More Lies (3, 1) 36) Bombers (1, 1) Miracles (1, 1) Not appearing on anyone's lists: - That's Too Bad - Metal - My Dying Machine - Radio Heart - London Times - I Can't Stop - My World Storm - Emotion - Machine & Soul . . . Notice the far and away winner: "I Die: You Die." Maybe a bit surprising, considering it's not one of Gary's three most famous, but not at all surprising to anyone who remembers the results of the "songs in general" poll I ran some time ago. There as well, IDYD nailed it. In fact, maybe it would be informative if I gave an excerpt of that poll, just listing the songs that made its top honors that were also singles, to see if they stack up. So here goes, with number of entries each song appeared on and weighted scores: 1) I Die: You Die (8, 134) 2) Down In The Park (8, 119.5) 3) Metal (7, 105.5) 7) A Question Of Faith (6, 62) 8) We Take Mystery (To Bed) (4, 62) 10) Are 'Friends' Electric? (4, 54.5) 12) Warriors (4, 51.5) 14) Complex (3, 46) 17) Cars (4, 42) 19) Remind Me To Smile (3, 40.5) 22) We Are Glass (4, 38.5) 23) Dominion Day (3, 38) 28) Music For Chameleons (3, 32.5) 30) Your Fascination (3, 28) 32) Berserker (3, 20.5) 33) The Skin Game (3, 20) Hmmm, comparing these two lists, yeah, "Down In The Park" nabs second spot on both, but "Cars" dropped from fifth single on the singles poll down to ninth on the general, "We Are Glass" ranked as sixth but dropped to eleventh on the general. Their results aren't exactly matching up. I would say this most recent poll is probably more reflective of fans tastes in general, simply because more people took part in it. We had 38 people submit their top five favorite singles, whereas only 16 people submitted their top twenty favorite songs overall. (Well, now, wait a minute. Compiling a list of twenty favorite songs allows for a lot more of what we fans like to be catalogued than just five. Hmmm.) Here's something I think we can conclude from the singles poll: the fans don't think "Metal" counts as a single. Nobody listed it, even though it placed THIRD on the songs overall poll. Okay, who here said it was released as a single? Catalog number please? Similarly with "Remind Me To Smile." Placed tenth among "singles" songs on the songs in general poll, but was way down at the bottom of the singles poll. I'm guessing here again fans must have passed over that one because we just don't generally think it counts as a "single." Again, catalog number? "Rip" placed extremely highly. I find myself wondering if that's just excitement about its newness; I wonder if it would still place so highly after the next album is released. I love Gary's industrial sound, but that song just doesn't say "single" to me; I don't think it's catchy. It's a GOOD song, definitely, but radio material? That's another distinction I think deserves mentioning. Joey lobbied hard for "Cars." (Should we call in some election officials to go over the results because of that? Does that count as "electioneering"?) He browbeat us 'noids into voting for it, practically questioned our fan-ness if we didn't, and sure enough, it topped several lists after his post. Here's the point I would make about that song: it's definitely Gary's CATCHIEST single, but I wouldn't say it's his BEST. If we're choosing based on how much any partakes of the quality of "goodness," I'd agree that "I Die: You Die" deserves that honor-- even though I didn't vote for it at the top of my list. (Our lists were supposed to be our FAVORITES, after all, and that one is just not my personal favorite; "A Question Of Faith" is. Of singles.) Looking at the results, I noticed two definite lines of demarcation. First, the top six singles have weighted scores around forty (except IDYD which trounced its competition)... and then the seventh single drops into the teens in weighted scores. To my eyes that says that we can confidently state that those top six singles ARE the favorite singles of the fans, the singles we 'noids consider to be Gary's best. Then there's a smaller drop-off between "A Question Of Faith" and "The Skin Game." True, it's only a five-point drop in weighted scores, but look at the tabulated results overall-- it tends to be continuous along the spectrum otherwise. Apart from those two breaks, the gap between adjacent songs is only a point or two (again, except for IDYD which is untouchable). So what does that mean? Well, I'd guess that those singles ranked seventh through sixteenth are Gary's "next best," standing ahead of the rest of his singles. Maybe we can't be sure from this that "Call Out The Dogs" is preferred over "Dominion Day," but we can confidently state that they both rate over all those songs that range through the lower half of the list, along with the others in that second tier. I was amazed that "Like A Refugee" got listed at all... and it appeared on four entries! Think about that: four people who answered this poll rated that song above FORTY of Gary's other singles! Wow. (This is my own bias against that song blatantly seeping through-- no offense to anyone who listed it. Go ahead and take a poke at me for listing "The Skin Game.") I should say that the ranks for the singles in the bottom half of the results can hardly be relied on at all. Assigning placement based on just one or two entries really doesn't inspire confidence. In the end, this a poll of favorites, which is why distinguishing those top two tiers is meaningful. They're the favorites, and the second faves. So... let the debate about what these numbers mean commence! Ben * * * "We need to win Like you need to breathe I've an interest in games" ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:48:23 +0100 From: "Vickers" Subject: Top of the Pops 2 I have been away a lot recently, and my memory is playing tricks, so please bear with me. Has anybody written in with their impressions or feelings from seeing Gary perform live on TOTP2? Some friends of mine saw it, and I think it can only have done good! Paddy Vickers P.S. I LOVED Mark Anderson's notes on his favourite B-sides. I'd better get working on my favourite five. Mista Sax 2 has got to be in it, and Noise Noise. And we take Mystery (Early Version) and My Car Slides (can I get away with putting the two together?) and, yes, Exhibition, and The Image Is, and She Cries, and Glitter and Ash, mmmm, difficult.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:06:15 +0100 From: "James Chapman" Subject: Top 5 B-Sides Well, I'm just a sucker for these polls, but I hope this really takes off Mark, just like Ben's sinles poll did!! :-) Anyway, for me: 1. In A Glasshouse (maybe flattered by the period it came from, but this is a lost gem, foe sure!) 2. I Don't Believe (blatanly should have been on the album) 3. Here Am I (an epic!!!) 4. Glitter And Ash (Maybe Gary's best ever instrumental track) 5. We Need It (I long for this one live!) I could have put anther 5 or so in there depending on the day, but also getting special mentions are: Random, We Are So Fragile, My Car Slides 1, Shame, Play Like God, Whisper Of Truth, This Wreckage (Metamorphosis mix), Noise Noise, Faces, The Hauntings, Metal (Dominion Day B-side), and even I Sing Rain!! Just those first 5 to be put in the poll though! ;) Cheers James _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End digest@garynuman.info Digest [08/30/2002 18:01] --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced, moderated, and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, davdat@allmusic.com, Joey@GaryNuman.Info Back Issues: http://digest.garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@garynuman.info If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: listserv@GaryNuman.info and include this line as the first line of your message body: SUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) or UNSUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) (email address is optional but useful if you have multiple addresses) If you want to switch between receiving Digests or individual posts, again send to listserv@GaryNuman.Info and include either of these in your message body: NORMAL digest@garynuman.info or DIGEST digest@garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: this mailing list is configured to automatically unsubscribe you if mail to your mailbox goes undeliverable for any reason. 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