--------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T (by subscription only - to unsubscribe, see bottom of this message) --------------------------------------------------------------------- (#2002-136) - Topics this issue: 1) B Sides, 2) favorite forsaken, 3) poll results... posted, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:48:03 +0000 From: steve.gardner@intentia.co.uk Subject: B Sides Hi all, My favourite B-sides: 1. "Trois Gymnopedies" 2. "Face to Face/Letters" 3. "My car slides" 4. "The Image Is" 5. "Glitter and Ash" Stephan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:39:41 -0500 From: "Val & Ben Iglar-Mobley" Subject: favorite forsaken I love this b'sides poll. I've been looking forward to it. I had some guesses already about how the singles poll would come out, and so the b's poll was actually the first one I imagined running. So let me offer my own entry: 1) We Have A Technical 2) Trois Gymnopedies 3) I Don't Believe 4) Mistasax 5) Glitter & Ash If that doesn't make it obvious, I'll just cop to loving Gary's instrumentals. I hope he breaks into scoring films like he's said he'd like to. > I wonder if we could impose on you again to organize this > whole thing a la last time (you did a fine job!), Oh, well, I don't want to get territorial. I mean, I have my own ideas about how the poll might be organized, but I'm just one noid. The music belongs to all of us. Our love of the music belongs to all of us. > 1) Present a complete list of eligible songs. Tell you what, I'll suggest what I picture as the criteria. I described a tripartite division among Gary's ouevre, between singles, other album songs... and the rest. This would be a poll of "the rest"-- the songs that have been segregated out to meet the audience last, not on the radio and not on the albums. In that group would be, obviously, b'sides but then also all the demo songs Beggars Banquet have so generously shared with us on the CD reissues. Think about it, they get "left behind" in the same way that b's do, considered by the animal to be not quite up to the same standards as the rest of his output, so don't they stand in the same category? Now, personally I would exclude remixes or rerecordings of songs that appeared on the albums. I mean, "Down In The Park" is the penultimate most beloved Gary song; if we include the piano version or the twenty-year version I expect they'll rocket right to the top... and what then will that tell us? In the same way I would leave out a'sides of songs that didn't go onto albums, because otherwise again "I Die: You Die" will be right at the top, and what sense does that make if we think about this category as qualitatively distinct from singles and album songs? Here's a bit of a tangle, though. What about 'The Plan'? Since that didn't get pressed as an album when it was originally recorded, was then consigned to the vault tapes, and only released a half a decade later by BB to a surprised public and a surprised Gary... wouldn't that make the whole thing a set of "left out" songs? My guess is this. Gary DID actually make the selection between those songs, and segregate out the ones he wanted included on the vinyl and the ones he thought should get left off. Steve Webbon said that the ones that got pressed onto the LP were the ones that Gary imagined would make up the album, and in the order he wanted for them even. So, for the purposes of this poll, I'd say only the ones on that disc that were NOT on the original vinyl album should count (nor on the subsequent 'Tubeway Army' album, obviously). So, 'The Plan,' when it was pressed in 1984 included: 1) This Is My Life 2) My Shadow In Vain 3) Critics 4) Mean Street 5) Thoughts No. 2 6) Bombers 7) Basic J 8) Ice 9) Somethings In The House 10) Do Your Best 11) Check It 12) The Machine So that would mean the eligible songs from the disc are: 2) Oh! Didn't I Say 3) Out Of Sight 10) The Monday Troop 14) Crime Of Passion 21) Blue Eyes 22) OD Receiver 23) Fadeout 1930 24) Don't Be A Dummy (Notice that I left out "The Life Machine (demo);" extra credit to anyone who can guess why. But... uh oh. Does that last one raise any red flags for anybody?) "Don't Be A Dummy" doesn't quite fit the definition, so does it belong? I'd say yes. It may not have been a "b" nor a regular song of his that he just decided not to include on his album... but it counts alongside the rest as a discrete musical recording that (like the b's and demos) is darn elusive and confounds the dedicated collector. I think it shares of the "b'side essence." Which then begs the question, what about "Redirected Mail" and "The Sailor In Love With The Sea"? Yes and yes. That's my thinking, anyway. (That second one came within striking distance of nabbing the number five spot on my list, but lost out just because Gary actually wrote "Glitter & Ash"-- which makes it a little more "his.") So... here's how I'd compile the b' list: Oh! Didn't I Say Out Of Sight The Monday Troop Crime Of Passion Blue Eyes OD Receiver Fadeout 1930 Don't Be A Dummy Do You Need The Service? The Crazies Only A Downstat We Have A Technical We Are So Fragile Random Ocean Asylum On Broadway A Game Called Echo Photograph Trois Gymnopedies I Sing Rain Exhibition Face To Face / Letters Dance Noise Noise Bridge? What Bridge? War Games Glitter And Ash The Image Is This House Is Cold My Car Slides (1) My Car Slides (2) Poetry And Power Empty Bed, Empty Heart Here Am I She Cries We Need It Anthem No Shelter This Ship Comes Apart The Fear Survival Faces Puppets Time To Die Ghost Mistasax River Rumour I Don't Believe Children Love Like A Ghost Icehouse Tread Careful Dark Mountain In A Glasshouse Hanoi Metal Beat Wisper Of Truth Play Like God Redirected Mail The Sailor In Love With The Sea Exposure (About that last one, I still don't have it, nor the "Rip" single with its b's. Is it truly just an instrumental version of one of the new rerecordings as I thought I'd heard it was? If that's the case, strike it off the list. My thinking, anyway.) And there they are. > 2) After doing so, allow those who've voted to change their > votes Obviously, anybody should be able to change her or his vote anytime before the totals are counted up and posted. (Well, maybe even then.) > 3) Tabulate all the votes for us again. > > Whaddaya think? Oh, er, well, I'm certainly game, but I, uh, wouldn't want to steal it away from Mark who was the one to start it off. Just to give us more information about our likes from that category, as with the singles I'd want to weight entries from top to bottom as they're numbered... but I've noticed that not everybody has numbered their submissions. Some people have posted lists of songs without assigning them numbers. If I were running this show (and I'm not that person yet) I'd want that clarified before I tried to tally anything. I mean, it's a meaningful disctinction when one person says her list is ranked in order from most to least favorite and the next says his is "in no particular order"-- that makes a difference in how those songs should be counted up finally. These are my thoughts. Feel free to report your own mileage. Ben * * * Zero hero says I'm no one He could be right but who's to know? ------------------------------------------- Introducing NetZero Long Distance Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month! Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:28:55 +0100 From: Dryad Subject: re: poll results... posted Ben Iglar-Mobley said: >http://digest.garynuman.info/topten2002.html ) ... but it's been eerily >silent since then. Oh, I thought it was just me thinking it was very quiet. >Does no one want to discuss what they mean? What an eclectic bunch we are! I listened to the radio presentation, which, I might add, rockes. :D I'd love to hear the same for the B-sides. Dryad -- http://www.puritycontrol.co.uk - XF rec's at The Grove, updated 8/15/02 ------------------------------ End digest@garynuman.info Digest [09/02/2002 18:01] --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- T H E G A R Y N U M A N D I G E S T is produced, moderated, and distributed by Derek Langsford, Dave Datta, and Joey Lindstrom dlangs@sunstroke.sdsu.edu, davdat@allmusic.com, Joey@GaryNuman.Info Back Issues: http://digest.garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------- To reply to the messages in this list, email: digest@garynuman.info If you want to be removed, or someone wants to be added, email: listserv@GaryNuman.info and include this line as the first line of your message body: SUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) or UNSUBSCRIBE digest@garynuman.info (email address) (email address is optional but useful if you have multiple addresses) If you want to switch between receiving Digests or individual posts, again send to listserv@GaryNuman.Info and include either of these in your message body: NORMAL digest@garynuman.info or DIGEST digest@garynuman.info ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note: this mailing list is configured to automatically unsubscribe you if mail to your mailbox goes undeliverable for any reason. 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